[mukto-mona] Statement of concerned citizens on Bilkis bano Judgement

Media Release

Date January 25, 2008

STATEMENT ON BILKIS BANO JUDGMENT BY CONCERNED CITIZENS

The judgment in case of Bilkis Bano comes as a
great relief in the times when justice is being
denied to large section of society, more so to
the victims of communal violence. A pregnant
women who was gang raped, who witnessed the
brutal killing of her family members, stood firm
with grit and determination to seek justice with
the help of civil right group of Gujarat. Bilkis
herself deserves lot of praise for her courage.
The civil rights group based in Gujarat, which
took up the battle, needs to be appreciated for
the yeomen service it has done in the cause of
justice in Gujarat.

We welcome this judgment whole heartedly and hope
that similar justice is also given to innumerable
victims of the Gujarat carnage. While the Bilkis
case shows justice is possible it also shows how
difficult it is to get. While it shows that
elements of democracy are still alive, it also
shows how much compromised they are becoming with
the ascendance of communal mind set of section of
people and with the communalization of our state
apparatus, police, bureaucracy, judiciary and
polity. In a way the whole episode is a mirror to
what is happening in Gujarat. The state sponsored
pogrom in Gujarat has left the civic society
fractured along religious lines. The person and
party who led the carnage have got approval from
a section of society, as the victory of Modi in
2007 elections has shown. This erosion of
democratic norms and justice delivery system is a
matter of grave concern to all of us.

While Modi-BJP have already pushed their divisive
politics deep down in the society, it is
imperative that we restore back the values the
values of democracy, pluralism, and diversity,
the one's which are the base of our freedom
movement. It is necessary that the norms of
Indian Constitution, which seem to have been
damaged severely in different parts of the
country, more so in Gujarat, are restored back.

We urge upon all the concerned authorities to
take up the cases of innumerable other victims of
Gujarat carnage, reinvestigate if necessary, and
set up special court to try the culprits,
including Narendra Modi, whose role in the
carnage was the most dangerous of all. The
victims of Gujarat carnage are feeling helpless
and are crying out for help for getting them
justice, for getting them rehabilitated, for
getting them the equal citizenship rights, which
are due to all of us.

Prof. K.N.Pannikar, Ex Vice Chancelleor, Kaladi Uni, Kerala
Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer, Chairman CSSS
Prof. Ghanshyam Shah, Social scientist
Dr. Ram Puniyani, Sec. All India Secular Forum
Digant Oza, Journalist
Rohit Prajapati and Trupti Shah, PUCL Vadodara
Irfan Engineer, Director Institute of Peace Studies and Conflict
Resolution
Uttam Parmar, Social activist
Harsh Mander, writer, social activist
Ajit Muricken, Director, Vikas Adhyan Kendra, Mumbai
Shabnam Hashmi, Social activist, member, National Integration Council

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[vinnomot] Gems of Knowledge in Qoraan

Oh yeah, when Sun goes down in Bangladesh it doesn't keep rising in other countries, where there was night, when it was day in Sonar Desh. It prostates for 12 hours until Allah permits it to rise from East again to cause a Morning in Bangladesh according to words or our Prophet.

 

Shape of Earth is Flat because in Qoraan Allah says, He spread the Earth like a Carpet. The Mollaas had argued, if it was round like a ball, how the hell a Carpet could be spread on a Ball?

They had also pointed out to the Verse that said, "We sent our Messengers to all 4 corners of earth". They said, if there are 4 corners, how can earth be round since a Ball has no corners?

 

If anybody wants, I can quote great known personalities of Islam from Hzt. Ali down that had said earth is on stand-still, meaning that whole universe revolves around it.

 

I can't figure-out, after learning all these facts, why Moslims stand up and want to reform Islam taking obsolete verses and Hadith that were just for illiterates of 7th Century, not for us out? 

 

Why are we leaving Islam to become a joke in front of Non Moslims?

Well, I guess, our Mollaas have no shame.  

Syed Mirza <mirza.syed@gmail.com> wrote:

Turkman's list of Koranic scientific Gems is not fully exhaustive. Koran and Sunnah (Prophetic traditions) is loaded with science and philosophical goodies. Below are some examples:

 

 Resting place for Sun:

 

Sahih Bukhari Hadiths:   Abzur Ghifari (ra) narrated: one day Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) asked me, "Abzar do you know after setting where Sun goes?"  I replied, I do not know, only Allah's apostle can say better. Then Prophet (SA) replied, "After setting, the sun remains prostrated under Allah's Aro'sh (Allah's throne) and waits for Allah's command for rising again in the East.   Day will come when sun will not get any more permission from Allah to rise again and Qeyamot (dooms day) will fall upon earth". 

 

Please see page # 1133 of Bengali Translated Quran by Maulana Muhiuddin Khan to see this Hadiths for yourself.     You can find this Hadith in Sahih Bukhari Sharif. 

 

(6) Quran wonders why/how Sun and Moon do not collide/catch each other (?)

 

Above Quranic Ayat (36:40) is telling us that---Sun can not catch/overtake/collide with Moon; Or, Night can not oustrip the day, Or, darkness of Night is covered by Day light; and Day light is covered by Darkness of Night.   By any means, Allah did not try to tell us about the SHAPE OF THE EARTH as some apologists want us to believe. This will be a ridiculous thinking. Allah actually wanted to tell us that, Night's darkness is covered by Day-light and vice-versa. This observation does not take a divinity to determine. Any human being can see it clearly, even cave people observed it millions of years ago.

 

Quran told us lots of sciences here. Where is the sun and where is the moon situated?    Can anybody tell me how they could collide/meet/overtake each other?   Are the sun and moon neighbors to each other?  If I walk in the streets of Dhaka, Bangladesh and my brother walks in the streets of Los Angeles, USA, shall we overtake/collide/catch each other?

 

Quran never say any where in the whole Quran that, THE EARTH ROTATES.   Quran maintained Geo-centric theory in every respect. Earth was considered center of the Universe.  Perhaps Allah could not feel Earth's rotation, because like humans Allah was also stuck with earth's gravity. This Quranic verse below once more confirms that the EARTH is fixed and never moves.

 

35:41- Verily! Allâh grasps the heavens and the earth lest they move away from their places, and if they were to move away from their places, there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Truly, He is Ever Most Forbearing, Oft­Forgiving.

 

Is Allah holding Earth and Sky with His mighty hands?  Only Allah knows better!

 

Syed Mirza

 

 

 

On 1/22/08, S Turkman <turkman@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Let me understand this. Are you people not accusing us mis-interpreting verses of Qoraan, when have been doing this for 1400 years?

Have not you guys been re-interpreting Qoraan for more than a thousand years?

 

Had you not issue Edicts that later you reversed centuries later in some cases after getting thousands of Moslim be-headed because you had been proven wrong, Science proved you wrong or people stopped believing in your those Edicts or FaTwah?

 

Who had issued these FaTawah or Edicts quoting verses of Qoraan if not you Mollaas or so called great Scholars of Islam?

 

1.  Whole Universe circles around Earth and Earth is on stand still.

2.  Earth is not round. Its flat.

3.  Every Qoraan is a live soul as Humans.

4.  Its against words of Allah to translate Qoraan in any language.

5.  Planets move back and forth.

6.  Its okay in Islam for a Husband to rape Slave of a Wife because Wife herself is Slave of her Husband.

7.  Its okay in Islam for father of a Husband to rape Slave of his Wife or his Slave without his or his Wife's permission.

8.  Its okay in Islam for brothers and cousins to rape a Slave of a person with his due permission.

9.  Studying Astronomy & Astrology is against Islam.

10. Studying Physics and Chemistry is against Islam.

11. Studying Anatomy and Biology is against Islam.

12. Studying Philosophy, Psychology and Psychiatry is against Islam.

13. Learning English is against Islam. (This was issued in Indian Sub Continent. Sir Syed Ahmed Khan had to fled to Great Britain to avoid being assassinated. He came back growing his beards for two years and had to be provided British protection against Mollaas).

14.  Sir Syed deserves beheading because he is no more a Moslim.

15.  Sir Allaamaa Iqbal deserves beheading being a 'Dehriyah'.

16.  Mr. Jinnah deserves beheading because he is a 'MorTiD'.

17.  Whoever believes that man has landed on Moon is no more a Moslim. (Over 1600 of your Scholars from all Moslim Countries had signed this in 1968).

18.  Godless USSR and Christian USA are partners in this Hoax. Its their mutually agreed Conspiracy to weaken our faith in Islam propagating that man has landed on Moon, when we have Moslim witnesses to prove, what people saw on TV was shot in a Hollywood Studio and was rehearsed in Florida for months. (Later turned-out that one of the Witnesses was an Egyptian Christian working in a Hollywood Studio as a Stage hand, who said, I was only asked if there were any Science Fiction Space Movies shot in my Studio. The other one working as a Janitor at NASA had said, I had only said, "I had seen Astronauts practicing for Moon Landing". None of them had said, Moon Landing was a Hollywood shot movie and it was a hoax but more than 1600 Scholars of Islam from all over the world had signed this Edict).

19. Meteors we sometimes see in our night sky? They are fired at Satan, when he tries to enter 'JannuT'. (Can anybody tell me in which direction is JannuT then because Meteors seem to be coming from all 4 directions towards earth? How come Science hasn't found 'JannuT in any of directions and the distance from earth that Meteors seem to appear in the sky?)

20.  Hit Satan with Pebbles on Hajj ...! Why with Pebbles? Why not just blow him away with a Mortar Fire if he is really there? If he can't die of Mortar Fire, why hit him with little Pebbles? What's the proof, we are really hurting him? Who do you think, you are fooling?

 

 Now with present facts and a history like that our Mollaas can still stand up and tell us they are right about everything and everybody else is wrong?

Don't they have any shame ...!

I guess not because they keep their shame under a Borqah and never wear Nickers or Shorts.

------------------------------------- 

Amin Sarkar <sarkarga@yahoo.com> wrote:

Salam:

Here is the article below that argues against beating wife in Islam. Those who are interested in picking just one word from Quran to justfy wife beating, may also justify that according to Quran Muslims should have four wives although it is conditional and Quran is the only scripture that speaks about one wife. May be in the future, people can come with the justification that according to Quran there is no God as the word "La Ilaha" is there.

A. Sarkar

_______________________________

QURAN – IS BEATING WIFE OKAY?

<In "Woman: Chastisement & Other Issues" by Shah Abdul Halim>

 The most misunderstood verse of the Quran which has been interpreted by the scholars of the earlier generation that justify the beating of the wife by the husband is 4 (Surat An Nisa): 34 -35 and the Arabic root verb is daraba. To arrive at the clear meaning of the verse of the Quran we shall try to reconcile the verses of the Quran and try to explain one verse of the Quran with ! the help of another verse of the Quran for that is the most methodical approach of the interpretation of the Quran. We shall then refer to the seerah or the life of the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) for necessary guidance in this matter. We shall also examine the literal and etymological meaning of the word daraba in its different derivatives as appeared in various verses of the Quran.  

To grasp the precise meaning of the verse of the Quran we shall use English rendering of the Quran by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, Marmaduke Pikthall; Sayyid Qutub, T. B. Irving  and joint English translation of the meaning of the noble Quran by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan and Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali.    

We shall now quote the most misunderstood verse of the Quran, which has been used for cruelty against women. Abdullah Yusuf Ali translated verse 34-35 of Surat An Nisa is as: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband 's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly) [Arabic word used in the verse is wadribuhunna]; but if they return to obedience seek not against them means (of annoyance): for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).  If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they seek to set things aright, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things [Al Quran 4 (Surat An Nisa): 34-35] ('The Holy Quran: English translation of the Meanings and Commentary '. Revised & Edited by The Presidency of the Islamic Research, IFTA, Call and Guidance. King Fahd Holy Quran Printing Complex.Saudi Arabia. pp 219-220).  

If one closely reads and examines the aforementioned verse of the Quran keeping in view overall spirit of the matrimonial relationship of mutual love, affection and fellow feeling between the spouses and inbuilt structure of family on compassion and benevolence, one must necessarily conclude that intolerant attitude of the husband like recourse to beating the wife cannot be a way for continuation of peaceful and harmonious conjugal life rather such cruel attitude of the husband is bound to create mutual suspicion and promote mistrust  among the partners that might ultimately result in the disintegration and breakup of the family. Moreover, if the third step to resolve marital dispute is daraba, translated as beating as mentioned in the verse quoted above, the fourth step cannot be arbitration for if the husband take the extreme step of beating wife, the arbiters will have little scope for mediation. Logic also suggests that the spouses would also naturally prefer to keep their differences secret to avoid disgrace, embarrassment and humiliation in front of the society unless they take the farthest step for divorce. What then is the inner meaning of the word daraba which is an instrument to bring about reconciliation and peace between the enraged spouses? Although the English translation of the word wadribuhunna (root verb being daraba) has been made as beat them lightly, the word lightly is not mentioned in the revealed text of the verse quoted above and therefore the question of beating wife by the husband does not arise irrespective of the level and degree of the beating if the husband is keen and really interested in the continuation of the marriage. 

Now if we read the aforementioned verse [Al Quran 4 (Surat An Nisa):34-35] together with 2 (Surat Al Baqarah): 231 wherein the husband has been advised not to take back wife to injure, it becomes clear that the meaning of the word daraba cannot be beating. Al Quran states: When you divorce women and they (are about to) fulfill the term of their (iddat), either take them back on equitable terms or set them free on equitable terms, but do not take them back to injure them … [Al Quran  2 (Surat Al Baqarah): 231]. Again in verse 33 (Sura Al Ahzab): 49 Allah has ordained husbands to release wives in a graceful manner. Al Quran states: … give them a present and release them in a handsome manner [Al Quran 33 (Sura Al Ahzab): 49]. In another verse Al Quran states: … The parties should either hold together on equitable terms or separate with kindness … [Al Quran 2 (Surat Al Baqarah): 229]. If separation between the spouses has to be made with grace and kindness, how the basis of reconciliation of disputes between the husband and wife can be beating?  It is therefore evident from the above comparative study of the verses of the Quran that the meaning of the idiom daraba, which is an instrument of reconciliation of marital disputes, cannot be beating of wife by the husband. Further, women are the embodiment of beauty, by nature emotional and fragile and therefore question of resorting to beating wife by husband to resolve rupture and rift in conjugal life does not arise. 

Does the word daraba then signify any allegorical, metaphorical or symbolic meaning beyond its literal and etymological connotation? Now if we fall back to the life of the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) as to what he (SAWS) did to resolve his (SAWS) differences with his (SAWS) wives. There is no record that Prophet (SAWS) ever slapped, beat, stroke or punched any of his (SAWS) wives. "Never did the Prophet (SAWS) raise his (SAWS) hand to any of his (SAWS) wives; all the testimonies show him (SAWS) as attentive and respectful to the person and the personality of the women who surrounded him (SAWS) " (Tariq Ramadhan. ' Islam, the West and the Challenges of Modernity'. p 341). Prophet (SAWS) "not only did never raise his (SAWS) hand to strike any of his wives, but he (SAWS) condemned wife-beating " ('Feminism & Islam: Legal and Literary perspectives '. p 312). Famita Mernissi , a sociologist of international reputation and a teacher at the University of Mohammad, Rabat, Morocco in her book 'The Veil and The Male Elite: A Feminist Interpretation of Women 's Rights in Islam'! wrote: "The Prophet never raised his hand against one of his wives … The only time when the Prophet was confronted with a domestic revolt, a rebellion by some of his wives, not only did he not beat them, but he preferred to leave his home and, to the great surprise of the city, to move for almost a month to a room adjoining the mosque "(Fatima Mernissi. ' The Veil and The Male Elite: A Feminist Interpretation of Women's Rights in Islam '. Perseus Books, Cambridge, Massachusetts. pp 156-157).  Who else knew more than Prophet (SAWS), who (SAWS) is the official interpreter of the Quran [Al Quran16 (Surat Al Nahl): 44], the meaning and significance of the instruction of this verse? Prophet (SAWS) understood the implication and siprit of the verse and therefore he (SAWS) did not resort to beating. What Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) did is that he (SAWS) resorted to al-mashrabah, moved away from his residential quarters for a month or so without inflicting any physical injury to enable the noble ladies ponder and try to understand the consequences of living in isolation from the husband, the mental pain and agony which a wife has to experience in the absence of the husband and realize the gravity and seriousness of recalcitrance and defiance. The most candid meaning of the root verb daraba in the dialect and language of the Quran therefore implies and signifies to "leave ", to "moving away ", to "separate " (Eminent Saudi intellectual Dr. AbdulHamid AbuSulayman, President, International Institute of Islamic Thought (IIIT), USA and formerly Rector of International Islamic University, Malaysia. 'Chastising Women: A Means to Resolve Marital Problems ', original article in Arabic and translated into English by Dr. Mazen A. Al Najjar). It is significant that the text of the Quran does not use the word daraba to denote physical or corporal punishment rather the Quran uses jalada (to lash, to whip, to flog etc). Al Quran states: The woman! and the man guilty of fornication flog each of them with a hundred stripes …   [24 (Sura An Nur): 2]. 

We shall now have a glimpse over the whole Quran and identify the verses of the Quran where the word daraba has appeared in the Quran with its different meanings, connotations and derivatives in all seventeen distinct nuances or representations. The idiom daraba in the land denotes to travel or to depart [Al Quran 4 (Surat An Nisa): 101. Arabic word used in the verse is waiza darabtum]. With respect to ear, the verb daraba means to block or to prevent hearing [Al Quran 18 (Surat Al Kahf): 11. Arabic word used in the verse is fadarabna]. And with regard to revelation, daraba means to stop, to halt, to abandon and to take away [Al Quran 43 (Sura Az Zukhruf): 5. Arabic word used in the verse is afanadribu]. Obviously, for the truth and false, daraba means to make both of them evident and to distinguish them from each other [Al Quran 38 (Sura Sad): 44. Arabic word used in the verse is fadribbihi]; whereas, for veils, daraba connotes to draw them over and to cover the bosom [Al Quran 24 (Sura An Nur): 31. Arabic word used in the verse is walyadribna]. In the seas or rivers, daraba is to strike a path through the water and set the water aside [Al Quran 20 (Sura Ta Ha): 77 Arabic word used in the verse is fadrib and Al Quran 26 (Sura Ash Shuaraa): 63 Arabic word used in the verse is anidrib]. But for humiliation and shame, daraba is to signify that both of them are pitched over people [Al Quran 2 (Surat Al Baqarah): 61. Arabic word used in the verse is wadribat]; however, for a wall, daraba means to be erected, that is, to indicate partition or separation [Al Quran 57 (Sura Al Hadid): 13. Arabic word used in the verse is faduriba]. With regard to the finger tips, necks, faces and backs, daraba means to cut, to slash and to strike [Al Quran 8 (Surat Al Anfal): 12 Arabic word used in the verse is fadribu   and Al Quran 47 (Sura Muhammad): 4 Arabic word used in the verse is fadarba and Al Quran 47 (Sura Muhammad): 27 Arabic word used in the verse is yadribuna]  ; whereas, for the rest of the verses [16 (Surat Al Nahl): 76, 16 (Surat Al Nahl): 112, 66 (Sura At Tahrim): 11; 43 (Sura Az Zukhruf):57; 17 (Surat Bani Israil): 48; 2 (Surat Al Baqarah): 26, 16 (Surat Al Nahl): 74; 2 (Surat Al Baqarah): 60; 3 (Surat Al-i-Imran): 112; 4 (Surat An Nisa): 94 and 37 (Sura As Saffat): 93], daraba means to impel, to shock, to slap, or to damage so as to precipitate the desired impact which is relevant to each respective situation, action or interaction (Dr. AbdulHamid AbuSulayman, 'Chastising Women: A Means to Resolve Marital Problems).  

Now if we rewrite the translation of the verse 34-35 of Surat An Nisa by Abdullah Yusuf Ali in the light of the meaning of the word daraba as explained by Dr. AbdulHamid AbuSulayman and quoted above, the meaning of the verse becomes: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband 's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) leave the nuptial nest [or move away from the nuptial nest or separate from the nuptial nest]; but if they return to obedience seek not against them means (of annoyance): for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).  If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they seek to set things aright, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things [Al Quran 4 (Surat An Nisa): 34-35].  

It is therefore clear from what has been discussed quoting revealed text of the Quran, life of the Prophet (SAWS) and opinion of the contemporary eminent Islamic scholars, academicians, researchers and jurists that there is no scope of beating of Muslim wife by the Muslim husband.

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[vinnomot] Re: Nasty, offensive & filthy languages in postings, reply of 3 nammed someone "Izhar Ahmad /Salahuddin Ahmad/Salahuddin Ayubi"

Subject: Nasty, offensive & filthy languages in postings, reply of 3
nammed someone "Izhar Ahmad /Salahuddin Ahmad/Salahuddin Ayubi"

Dear. Mr. Arif,

Please accept my full hearted thanks, support & appreciation for
disclosing the 'actual' face of this bastard, liar, RAZAKAR.

These types of language prove that he is really a bustard, other wise
he can not utter these types of languages (of gutter).

Shame and debase to this 3 named bustard, liar, RAZAKAR "Izhar Ahmad
/Salahuddin Ahmad/Salahuddin Ayubi"

Nuru

-----Original Message-----
From: Arif Ahamed <ahamed.ahmed@gmail.com>
To: khabor <khabor@yahoogroups.com>; vinnomot
<vinnomot@yahoogroups.com>; Mukto-Mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>;
MuktoChinta@yahoogroups.com; gopalsengupta@aol.com;
turkman@sbcglobal.net; srbanunz@gmail.com; anis90242@yahoo.com;
mahmudh35@yahoo.com; islam71nurul@aol.com; rgonsalves29@verizon.net;
amin_chaudhury@yahoo.com; diya_goodies@yahoo.com; hasan_eu@yahoo.com;
sharifh_bd@yahoo.com; worldcitizen73@yahoo.com; Arahim.azad@gmail.com;
abuilla@yahoo.com; Santa.mustafa@hotmail.com;
citizen.bangladesh@gmail.com; mita_hq@yahoo.com; srbanunz@hotmail.com;
anjbose@hotmail.com; babu_asad@yahoo.com; boseasoke@gmail.com;
leena_mostofa@yahoo.com; mostofa@acebd.com;
banglarnari@yahoogroups.com; FutureOfBangladesh@yahoogroups.com;
bdstudents@yahoogroups.com; motamoth@yahoo.com;
bristi_namai@yahoogroups.com; BanglaPolitics@yahoogroups.com;
veirsmill@yahoo.com; shaukatahmed@hotmail.com; danaprnt@bdcom.com;
poplu@hotmail.com; skabir@hsc.usf.edu; walihaque@yahoo.com;
mizan.majumder@auatac.com; niazpasha@yahoo.com; engr_sm@yahoo.com;
americamyland@yahoo.com; ibrahim_monsur@yahoo.com;
abdul_momen@hotmail.com; mirza.syed@gmail.com; nirmal_goon@yahoo.com;
nybangla@gmail.com
Sent: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 3:49 pm
Subject: Nasty, offensive & filthy languages in postings, reply of 3
nammed someone "Izhar Ahmad /Salahuddin Ahmad/Salahuddin Ayubi"

 
 

 
 
Dear sensible readers,
 
 
Note & attention:

 
If you are not an adult, then please close & leave this e-mail, as it
contains very nasty, offensive & filthy words, which may hurt & upset
you!

 
 
Please read below the some postings, replies of some "Izhar Ahmad
/Salahuddin Ahmad/Salahuddin Ayubi" - having three different names

 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
Shala khanki magir pola
 
amra shobai jani je tor maa nogor bashi chilo ar tor bap desh bideshi
orthath tor nidristo kono pitri porichoy nai.
Tor make jiggesh korish to sottikarer bap ke?
Tor onek baper ekjon.
 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
--------------------------------
 
Oi Magi,
 
Tui  je  oi  haramzadar  pokkhe  okaloti  korli,  tui  ki  janish  je
 oi  harimr bachcha

Ami  keno  oi  haramir  bachcha  ke  chere  kotha bolbo?

 
 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
-------------------------------
 
Mohiuddin Sb.,
 
Apni  abar  er  modhdhe  jorachchen  keno?

Apni  o  ki  oi  Bhua  engineer  bhuyar  kono  shruhid?

Oi  haramzadar  shonge  to  ami  bhalo  bhasha  e  kotha  bolte  parina.

 
Asha  korbo  bhobishshote  oi  haramjzadar  pok'kho  niye  okaloti
 kora theke  biroto  thakben.

 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
 
--------------------------------
 
Go-Paaal  Choragupta,
 
Tore  paaal  dewar  jonno  Shar  thik  ache

naki  Patha  pathabo?
Bolish  to  Gadha  o  patahte  pari.

Tpbe  mone  rakhish  gadhar  astro  ta  kintu  bhishon  boro.

Bhebe  dekhis  nite  parbi  to .

 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
-----------------------------
 
Go-Paaal  Choragupta,
 
Koybar  paal  dewa  hoise?

mathata  je  eto  gorom  hoilo.

kosto  hoese  bujhi?

It should not have hurt you as the bulls prick is of small diameter but
then its penetration is quite deep.

How did you like it?
 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
-------------------------------
 
Golap Choragupta,
 
O asto  ekta  gobet murkho!!!!!

O  kichui  jane  na  tobe  bhan  kore  je  shey  ekjon  moha  gyani.

This chicken fucker is professor of English. I do not want any chiken
 fucker to correct my writings.

 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
-------------------------------
 
 
Golap Choragupta,
 
You bloody cunt, when will you mend your ways. behaya,  besharam,
belaza,  beiman  malu

You son of a bitch do not touch my writings."
 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
-------------------------------
 
You bloody shamless Go-paaal,
 
You son of a bitch
you are a bloody manimal and not a human being. Lojja, shorom thakle to
toke manush bola jeto. Hasn't your parents taught etiquette and
manners?. I do not understand haow junglees like you find a place in
the blog.

nutty nut.
 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
-----------------------------------
Threat to Mr. Goplal sen

 
Bloody fool,
 
During emergency you are inciting rebellion. I feel that yourself and
the like of yourself should be charged with sedition, repatriated home,
tried and hanged.

 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
------------------------
 
 
Manger  put  Anu  Majhi,

 
Islamer  Nur  nam  niye  shala  bitlami  karchish.

Khanki magir put  nije  shamne  eshe  dara  tarpar  kotha  bol  haramir
bachchca.

 
tor  hajar  baper  ekjon

 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
----------------------
 
You third rate mistri,
 
He is a semi literate diploma holder and is not entitled to write Engr.
befire his He name

 
----------------------------
 
"Oh. great mistri sab!!! What are you doing out there in New Zealand
!!!"

 
"to put the flag pole up your bloody arse hole.
I have only showed you flagpole not the barge pole"
 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
---------------------------------
 
You stupid mistri,
 
I have not seen any Razakar, Pakistan ponthi etc.etc. since 1972. They
do not physically exist, Only Razakar I know of is Mr. Musharraf of
Khulna, who happens to be the father in law of Sk. Hasina's daughter.  

 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
(By the by, Ayubi, are you an agent in disguise working for
Pakistan? - Said the Khans of Dhaka South)

 
----------------------------------------
 
 
Bhua engineer Anu majhi,
 
This blighter is a diploma holder from Tejgaon polytechnic. He falls
under the category of a technician and not an engineer. He falsely

claims himself to be an engineer.
 
 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
--------------------------------------
 
 
The guy you call Anu Vie and he calls himself Engr. is neither an
engineer nor a respectable man, He is a diploma holder and is a monkey
who has yet to transform to homo sepian.

 
Salahuddin Ayubi
---------------------------
 
Dear joker,
 
You don't even know Bengali well, What should I call you an imbecile
country clown."
 
----------------------------
 
For Mr.Asad Babu,
 
Did God Almighty forget to place brain in your head when he created
you?"
 
 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
-------------------------------
 
Mr. Abuilla,
 
Are you sleeping or dreaming?"
 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
------------------------------
 
 
I hate to see people pronouncing wronly and hate it more when they
write it wrong. You bloody fool
 
 
---------------------
 
"aabar  etao  hote  pare  je  tar  bichi  atke  ache"

 
------------------------
About news paper of Bangladesh

 
 
"I read 2 Taka Amader Shomoy regularly more for the fun of it than the
news in it. Its news are mostly not credible.

 
Amader Shomoy is a news paper that is nice to read but it has failed to
establish itself as a credible news paper. Several times they have
apologised for the wrong news they published the previous day.

 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
----------
 
"Doinik Pachar Alor kotha"
"BAL chara ar shobor futo khuje pai"
 
"These bloody BAL people talk of "Niti/Chetona/Mukti Judhdha"
 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
------------
 
I subscrive to P. Alu and Jai jai din to enable me to draw my own
conclusion. I do not trust our news papers. Besides most our
journalists are only semi literate hardly having any knowledge of the
world we live in.

 
Salahuddin Ayubi
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

 
Dear readers,
 
 
These types (& many more) wordings, phrase in all of his mails, replies
& remark demonstrate & proves lowest level of moral, educational,
political & family background of this liar, RAZAKAR , idiot stupid (and
what not) 3 named guy.

 
Supporters of this three dissimilar names liar, RAZAKAR "Izhar Ahmad
/Salahuddin Ahmad/Salahuddin Ayubi" have also the same character &
qualities.

 
And these are the real character, image and standard of all (say 95%)
noticeable & hidden Paki - Jamaat - Razakar - Al Badar activist,
supporters & their mates.

 
 
Arif

________________________________________________________________________
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Re: [mukto-mona] Dhaka University ,Dhaka Cantonment and Dhaka Central Jail s...

WRT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/46293

Mr. Mohiuddin Netzero,
Place an appeal to Army Chief and the CTG to vacate Dhaka cantonment and
replace there all destitutes to live in for the welfare of the poorest people of
our motherland. Do you have that courage to write? If not, ask to make that
as not a cantonment rather a canteen for the poorest who will have a meal a
day!

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[ALOCHONA] Rivers dying as Ganges project remains in limbo

Rivers dying as Ganges project remains in limbo           Inadequate water flow in rivers in the country's south-western region is increasing salinity in the Sundarbans, letting the World Heritage site go to ruin. The photo was taken at Kachikhali point near the Sundarbans.       Despite repeated recommendations from experts, the government has yet to take any tangible action towards realising Ganga Barrage Project. The project was taken up and designed to harness water of the River Padma and to divert it to 24 big and small dying rivers in the south-western part of the country. Although the foundation stone was laid and some land was also bought in 1980 to build the barrage, successive governments failed to finish even the feasibility study in about the last three decades. Since then successive governments sat on the files of the project, which according to experts could change the lives of the people of the south-western region for the better. If Ganga or Ganges Barrage were built, the experts said, it would increase navigability of the rivers in that region and decrease salinity in the rivers, ultimately saving the Sundarbans, a heritage of the world. Besides, through producing hydro electricity the barrage would facilitate irrigation to almost 15,000 hectares of land in 10 districts, helping to produce extra crops worth Tk 1,000 crore a year, said Mir Sazzad Hossain, a member of Bangladesh-India Joint Rivers Commission. "River water up to 50 kilometres inland from the sea becomes saline during dry seasons. Ganges Barrage would increase flow of sweet water and also navigability of 24 big and small rivers," he said. The proposed Ganges Barrage at Pangsha-Sujanagar point under Rajbari and Pabna districts could divert water to 24 big and small rivers through the Garai, Chandana, Bhairab, Kapotaksha, Mathabhanga, Madhumati, and Nabaganga rivers. Dr Ainun Nishat, eminent river expert and the country director of the world conservation union IUCN, said the main concept of Ganges Barrage is not based on the idea of excavating any new canal, rather using the rivers and the system of canals that exist already. It would help to improve the current situation of the people and the environment as it would increase fish production and irrigation, and would also improve navigability of the rivers, he said. "Appropriate use of water from Ganges Barrage would increase sweet water flow in the rivers and canals of the Sundarbans, saving a portion of it," he added. During a recent visit to the Sundarbans, rivers and small canals were found heavily silted with no big boat being able to navigate through them during low tides, not even through bigger rivers like the Gorai and Madhumati. Md Mobarak Hossain, an engine boat owner from the Sundarbans, said he cannot navigate through the rivers and canals there even with his small country boat during low tides. "The situation is the same at Jamtala, Boyar khal, Kotka, Kochikhali, and Nilkamal -- almost everywhere. During low tides we cannot navigate through small canals but the situation was not like this just five years ago," said Mobarak. Sources in Water Development Board said following the water treaty with India in 1996, Water Resources Planning Organisation (Warpo) did a preliminary study on Ganges Barrage and made recommendations to the government. Before starting construction, the government intended to do a feasibility study on engineering planning, environmental impacts and the cost. Following Warpo recommendations in 2005, the erstwhile government took initiatives to appoint consultants for the study, and even signed a contract with a company, but the work order is yet to be awarded to the company. The government even opened an office for 'Feasibility of Ganges Barrage Project', but the whole office with its staff has been sitting idle for years, as there has been no work for them. "Right now we don't have many staff. But we will need more staff once we start working," Engineer Abdul Matin Bhuiyan, the director of the project, said yesterday. Now the people of the south-western part of the country, which is 37 percent of the total land area and depended on the Ganges river system, are suffering severely from salinity in the rivers, as they are heavily silted. The sufferings of the people have been on since the Indian government built Farakka Barrage in 1975, reducing water flow in the Ganga river system. Dr Azizur Rahman, a water resources expert now working with Development Design Consultants Ltd, said if Ganges Barrage is built, the increased water flow would wash out the silts from the river bed. Besides, under the project, rivers and canals would also be dredged, resulting in reduction of the inundation problem in the south-western region including the areas around Bhabadaha and Beel Dakatia.

  http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=20633

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[ALOCHONA] Prothom Alo Editor on 21st August Grenede Attack on Awami League Lea

Prothom Alo Editor on 21st August Grenede Attack on Awami League Leaders

 

 

 

http://prothom-alo.com/index.news.details.php?nid=MTM1OTE=

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[ALOCHONA] Elections unlikely in 2008

Elections unlikely in 2008

 

Despite the much-touted Road Map, the feasibility of holding the parliamentary elections in 2008 is in question

 

A PROBE report

Rangs Bhaban, in its dilapidated state, has attained iconic status. The caretaker government, in its tirade against corruption, saw fit to pull down this tall structure as it had been illegally constructed and that too on the site for a new road. Unfortunately, the job remains half done. The building has been broken to the extent that it cannot be used, but it still stands there, making mockery of the lofty intentions. This, indeed, has come to symbolise the state of the caretaker government in its entirety.

 

Metaphors aside, the government set out with a tough job of cleaning up the nation of crime and corruption and putting it back on the democratic track. But the main agenda was to hold a free, fair and credible election. To that end, changes were made in the Election Commission, and other relevant institutions, and the ambitious Road Map was announced. The elections are now scheduled to be held towards the end of 2008.

 

The question is, will the elections actually be held as per schedule? Is it possible to hold the election within this year? Even the most optimistic observer turns a shade sceptical at the prospect.

 

The reasons for the prospects of an Election 2008 being so bleak are manifold. Analysing the intricacies and implication involved, it is clear that the Road Map is certainly not the cakewalk it may have initially been perceived to be. As Chief Election Commissioner Shamsul Huda himself once remarked, "We have a road map in place, but we must remember the state of our country's roads – full of potholes, speed-breakers and a lot of other ups and downs. The going won't be easy."

 

The 1/11 perspective

Firstly, the circumstances leading up to the 1/11 intervention throw light on certain factors relevant to the election. The election had been scheduled for January 22 with two major confronting political groups led by BNP and Awami League respectively. It was the compulsion of the Election Commission to hold the elections as per schedule and, despite the token protest here and there, Awami League too was all set to join in the polls. It had begun nominating its candidates, boosting its alliance from a 14 Party one to the maha jote or grand alliance. And luring Ershad with his Jatiya Party into their fold was the icing on the cake. But things fell apart when Ershad drew back, not qualifying to contest in the election due to legal hassles. Awami League, realising it no longer held the trump card, withdrew from the polls. However, they naturally didn't use Ershad as an excuse; they said they couldn't participate in the polls because of the faulty voter list. Yet they had previously been willing to contest in the election with the very same voter list and under the controversial Chief Election Commissioner Justice MA Aziz. While the Election Commission would have been obliged to hold the election in the constitutional time frame, the High Court ruling in the case relating to the voting list came as a 'saving grace'.

 

And now the voter list may remain the snag to hold elections on time. It is already 2008 and the list is still under process. Even if it proceeds at full speed and is completed, where is the time for at least a draft to be published for proper review? As each area is being covered and completed, no chart is being put up for proper assessment or checking. There is no clear picture of what percentage of enrollment has taken place. All this may cause controversy and confusion, both genuine and motivated. If a faulty voters' list had held up polls in the past, an ambiguous one may do so in the future.

 

Discussion and dialogue

The Election Commission has committed itself to discuss with the political parties about electoral reforms and the government has announced its intentions to start a series of dialogues with the political parties before going for the polls. The Election Commission started up its discussions already, but that in itself has caused a furore.

 

The Election Commission has held discussion with some of the political parties, but no discussion with BNP. Given the rift within BNP, it showed a bias towards one faction of the party, leaving the other out in the cold. In fact, it was the faction empowered by party Chairperson Begum Khaleda Zia that was overlooked by the Election Commission. The 'reformists' were invited to dialogue, but legalities have held this up. In the meantime, the Election Commission has prepared its draft for electoral reforms. This is contradictory to its contention to draw up the reforms based on its discussions with the political parties. If the discussions have not taken place with all the major political parties, how has the draft been drawn up? This surely will be another irritant in the electoral process.

 

Registration of the political parties will put forward another challenge in the form of Jamaat-e-Islami. If there is any obstacle to registering Jamaat as a political party, Jamaat will in all likelihood resort to legal measures -- another spoke in the wheel along the road map.

And many serious issues remain unaddressed during the Election Commission's discussions with the political parties. They never raised the delimitation issue during the dialogue. This too gives scope for debate.

 

In the meantime, the government's intentions of dialogue with the political parties are also hanging in limbo. The process hasn't begun as yet and political analysts wonder whether this will indeed materialise at all. And if it does, will this simply open up a fresh bag of worms? In Bangladesh, after all, there never has been a very good track record where dialogue is concerned.

 

The box brouhaha

A pre-condition which was voiced regarding free and fair elections was the use of transparent ballot boxes. This, it was said, would remove any doubt from the minds of all concerned, about the boxes being stuffed in advance. The proposal initially came from the Danish Embassy, a development partner keen on seeing democracy take firm root in this country. The authorities immediately latched on to the suggestion and this also featured in President Iajuddin's 1/11 speech. Now, however, there seems to be a dilemma. The authorities are no longer speaking with conviction about transparent ballot boxes being a must for a credible election. They are vacillating in this decision. And if this is to be discussed with the political parties for a decision, that means further delay.

 

Obtaining transparent ballot boxes is not an overnight matter. After all, it was suggested that rather than importing readymade ballot boxes, a mould be brought in and local technology be used to manufacture the boxes. This involves the private sector, selecting a factory/ies (another matter of transparency involved), importing the plastic, shipment procedures, making a prototype, having it approved and then going for the real thing. All within 2008 when the process hasn't even begun?

 

And if the government is deciding to shelve the hole transparent ballot box issue, then why did Election Commission Sohul Hossain recently state that they would use transparent boxes so as not to give the defeated party scope to blame them for the results?

 

Local govt election first

It has been said that the local government elections would first be held. Even British High Commissioner Anwar Chowdhury has spoken to this effect (though how he qualifies to speak on this head is another matter). It is heard that the government wants to hold these elections within April. They say this is quite feasible as no delimitation is needed. But the fact remains that the voters' list has to be completed first. By April? The Election Commission itself has hinted that it will take till October to finish the list. So then it has been said that the local government elections will take place in the places where the list is complete. Is this to be a sort of staggered election? Will this take place without Dhaka? There are questions galore.

 

Elections under emergency?

Another question raised by political analysts is, will the elections take place under emergency or not? If they do take place under the state of emergency, once the polls are over and the new government is installed, the validity of the election will most certainly come under fire. To ensure that the validity of the election under emergency is not questioned, a fresh law will have to be promulgated.

 

No alternative political force

When the present caretaker government came to power, there was talk of a brand new political alternative and the people responded to this with gusto. There was Ferdous Quraishi and his party, there was even rumours of the army chief forming a party, though this soon died down with the chief's brushing aside of such rumours. Enthusiasts flocked in large numbers to sign up with the new political force. However, when the party did not quite display any signs of the expected clout, the fair weather friends beat a quick retreat and the party was left high and dry. It's back to square one now, with no alternative political force in sight. Given the present state of BNP, analysts see the arrival of the Awami League-led 14 Party if the election is held. If that does materialise, once this group win, the grassroots party leader and workers will simply not allow the government to be formed without Sheikh Hasina back in the PM's seat. And if that is so, will that not be a failure of the entire 1/11 exercise, of the caretaker's commitment for reforms?

 

Peripheral problems

The peripheral problems concerning Election 2008 are many.There is the matter of reforms within the political parties themselves. The reforms, so far, have been cosmetic with no indications of any sincere intentions of meaningful reforms. If that remains so and the government goes ahead with the election, what was the point of this entire hullabaloo about reforms, crime and corruption?

 

Another significant point raised by analysts is the need for an exit formula. The government may not want to talk about this too publicly, but the ground reality is that it is vital to work out an exit formula for the future. If not, there are bound to be ugly repercussions. After all, this government, with all good intentions, has stepped on a great many toes in the highest places. One cannot rule out a resulting personal vendetta, as has been seen in several Latin American countries and has been the underlying political culture here. But so far there has been no move for an exit formula or efforts to indemnify the present government's actions. Will the government go for an election, leaving itself so blatantly open to an uncertain aftermath?

 

The fate of the two ladies also remains in balance. They are yet to be convicted or freed, yet much depends of their fate. Even the political party leaders themselves cannot decide upon their next course of action until they know for sure whether they are to function under these ladies or without them. So this too is affecting the prospects of the election.

 

A means to an end

The Road Map for the election, in fact the entire 1/11 exercise and the mission of the caretaker government, is simply a means to an end. The end, in this case, being a free, fair and credible election leading to a tangible democratic system for a better Bangladesh, a Bangladesh free of the demoralising effect of crime and corruption, a Bangladesh with a chance to shrug of the overwhelming poverty and move towards a future of progress and prosperity. If the election is held in 2008 simply to stick to the schedule, will this aim be accomplished? Can the nation afford for the mission to fail? The consequences will be more dire than the half-done job of demolishing Rangs Bhaban.

 

http://probenewsmagazine.com/index.php?index=2&contentId=3502&PHPSESSID=ecf4659ff04d10b3d366c967ec16f36a

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[vinnomot] MoTau

Let me convey to your the other side of the argument, please ...!

 

Its a known fact that 'Motau' is permissible in Iran and some Middle Eastern Countries. In Middle Eastern Arab Countries it has become legalized Prostitution to most extent but in Iran not every girl is having 'MoTau' for prostitution purposes. Its happening in the society's elite group.

 

I asked an Iranian College Girl, who already had two 3 month long 'MoTau' following questions:

 

Question: Had you not had 'MoTau' just to have sex?

 

Answer: Not really. I want to get married till my husband dies but do not want to live with a husband that I would be wishing that he dies rest of my Marital Life.

 

My Comments: Her theory resembled the theory of Women in the West, who do not want to marry someone Sexually in-compatible and want to test him first though divorcing is not so hard in the Western Culture like in Eastern Culture.

 

Question: How do you think practicing 'MoTau' can find you the right husband then?

 

Answer: I live with my temporary husband to find-out if he is Sexually Compatible to me. Is he going to leave me Sexually dis-satisfied for rest of my life? I also learn his Psychological Traits, habits and other stuff in those 3 months to learn if I can spend rest of my life with him or not. Remember, our Prophet had said, "You don't know a person unless you have lived with him or have been on a long Journey with him" rejecting a Moslim, who had tried to stand-up as a Guarantor for someone in his court.

 

Question: Why do you think, when you decide to convert your 'MoTau' with some guy in to real permanent marriage, he would agree and had not had 'MoTau' with you just to use you?

 

Answer: I make sure of that before engaging in to a 'MoTau'. Both of the last 2 temporary husbands that I had 'MoTau' with had wanted to marry me permanently but I had rejected them because either they were not sexually compatible or not my type to live my rest of life with. I belong to the class of Iranian Society, where everybody is not looking for a Virgin anyway. The Proof is my 2nd temporary Husband by 'MoTau'. He knew, I was not a Virgin before we had 'MoTau' and he still wanted to marry me for good.

 

Question: How come you never got pregnant?

 

Answer: Because I'm not stupid looking for a rich guy to keep giving me money until I raise his kid. Its a part of 'MoTau' Agreement that if I get pregnant the temporary husband will have to provide me sustenance for rest of his life raising his kid/kids. I was taking Contraceptives so, I would not get pregnant like all other girls do so, I would not get pregnant.  

 

I guess, if 'MoTau' works fine for some people in Iranian Educated Society, I have no problem with it but using 'MoTau' for Prostitution only doesn't sound right to me unless some prostitute comes out to convince me, how is it right.

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Dear Col Rashid Mohsin

Please try to understand that Prostitution is not the issue nor is Mutta an issue. For that matter If I was a Shia and you ask a silly question such as having Mutta with my sister or daughter, my answer as a practicing Shia will be simple, "if Allah has permitted this act who am I to stop it". However Mutta is permissible under conditions. You are already aware that a lot of people will bang your head if you ask a similar question for marriage in a blunt manner which is an act internationally allowed by all religions and culture.

Truly ours

Zafar ul Islam

Rashid Mohsin,

I think they are victim of cir! cumstanc es, and are where they are due to exploitation by both pimps and users. If some one is to blame it is those who exploit by making money of them and by using the service they provide. The least to blame can be assigned to those who are exploited. This sale of flesh is an inhuman act, a barbaric act an act which should be condemned by all.

Zina is a voluntary act and not an act under duress, or compulsion. I am sure you would agree.

Hasnain

Dear Sir ,A A

S.A.A KAZMI, here I am a bit confused with your remarks that only Ithna-Ashri are Momineen and Ahlul Jannat..... because all the prostitutes are Shia and despite their public service (the hole sale business) which comes under Zina they would be in Jannat.....(it is not to annoy you or provoke you in retaliation of your sinful comments, anybody could check it from Heera Mandi Lahore or Napier road Karachi that they all are Shia, I have been talking to them "in the line of my duty"....I have performed Moharram Duty at Karachi from 1992-95 and my unit provided security to main procession of Moharram at M.A Jinnah road, I used to lead it, where a procession of Sex worker used to join from Napier Rd where we always  required additional security.... its confusing that a Kalma go, in your opinion despite all out efforts could not reach Jannat and on the other hand Pros would go to Jannat being Shia. Please stop using this bad language about Sahaba-e-karam, be logical and behave as member of the elite forum and not like common man..... Sir if you are hurt by my arguments I am sorry for that..........

MOHSIN 

Mr. Aziz Kazmi

Now that's enough. Please stop this fitna that u r spreading; right away. In the Quran, Allah asks of Muslims not to call names to the deities of the infidels lest they should call names to Allah in return. And in that it has a lesson for all of us. It will not take me many minutes to write unacceptable words for the ones whom you hold dear only.. but I take my lessons seriously and practice them too.

Some of the Sahaba that you have shown your open dislike to those who fought in the Jang e Badar and Allah in the Quran has forgiven them and 10 amongst them have been given Basharat of the Jannat. So, let's not take it upon us to ridicule any one of blessed ones.

I hope you shall refrain from uttering these words again. And let me assure you the disclamaint Hasnain is fully capable to mean what he has written and there is no reason for u to make further explanations.

The on going discourse is only for enhancing our understanding of each other's point of view. To kill fitna and fasad. and not to start afresh..

Yes, your freedom of speech must know norms of decency or else it should be a privilege you are not worthy of receiving.

So be tolerant to be tolerated.. !!!

Salman Masum

 

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