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Sunday, September 7, 2008

Re: [mukto-mona] Christians will be wiped out from Kandhamal : VHP

WRT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/49767

I am a beef eating Hindu. Even I subscribe to the idea of regulated
missionary activities.


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Re: [mukto-mona] Atten: Dr Sukhamaya Bain

Thanks to everyone who commented on my message. Let me talk a bit about a few of Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty's points.
 
Of course one could not be sure about the course of the history of India over 1757 to now if the Britsh did not have their colonial rule. No one could be sure if all Indians would have been forced to convert to Islam by now. But it can be fairly safely concluded that, the catastrophe of Islamization or not, India would have remained more backward without the British.
 
Theoretically speaking, "fruitful exchanges are possible and probably more effective if the exchanging partners are on equal footing." The question is who in India were to be on equal footing with the European rulers? The Nawabs, the Brahmans, the Hindus that were superior to some Hindus and inferior to some other Hindus, or the untouchable Hindus? How would a Hindu widow be on equal footing with a British one if the former were to be dead in the funeral pyre of her husband?
 
In the world today, the Saudi King is on about equal footing with the US President. Subimalda, how many centuries do you think it would take for the average Saudi woman to be one equal footing with the average Saudi man? In the USA, when even an illegal alien gives birth to a child, that child would be a citizen of this country, eligible to become even the President. How long do you think, the average Palestinian brother of the Saudis would have his child be treated in Saudi Arabia on equal footing with the average Saudi child?  
 

You talk about Dwaipayan Vyasa proclaiming "nothing is above man" 2500 years ago. Now, think how slow India progressed looking at the Hindus today.
 
When you talk about the British stealing all the gold from the Taj Mahal, I have to remind you that the Arabs do have a lot of money and material wealth. But they are destitutes when it comes to the development of their minds. Even the average Mullah of Bangladesh would prefer to make his home in the USA over Saudi Arabia.

 

Again, my emphasis would be on the human rights and dignity of the average Indian over the material wealth of the kings/nawabs.

 

 

Sukhamaya Bain
 

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Mukto-Mona Celebrates Earth Day:
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Kansat Uprising : A Special Page from Mukto-Mona 
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MM Project : Grand assembly of local freedom fighters at Raumari
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German Bangla Radio Interviews Mukto-Mona Members:
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Mukto-Mona Celebrates Darwin Day:

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[ALOCHONA] Secularism and Islam

Mr. Raisuddin,
There are some Islamic Extremists here in USA also, who claim to be Human Rights Lawyers but its possible that they are agents of Wahabis and Al Qaeda on Pay Roll. There was such man here, who claims to be President of an Organization also. When I wrote against him, he had tried to scare me by saying, he would sue me for liable.
 
I told him, "Make my day ...!" then, I would have a real reason to start investigating you from top to bottom. "If you are a Human Rights Lawyer, tell me, rights of how many non-Moslims you have defended so far?"
He had no answer and stopped posting messages after that but this Muffassil guy is stubborn 'DHeet' like a Wild Boar.

--- On Sun, 9/7/08, Kajimel Raisuddin <Kraisuddin@hotmail.com> wrote:

Mr. Islam,
 
You are lauding Turkman with very objectionable languages. Do you think it is appropriate for you if you are a Human Right advocate? Whose right you are advocating? For general Bangladeshi public or for fanatic islamists? Do you know the difference between the general peaceful muslim public and religion hijacker fanatic islamists? Majority people of Bangladesh are muslim and are peace loving for last about 1000 years. The wahabis, muslim brotherhood, rich Saudis and other oil rich middle eastern amirs have started radicalism in islam. That pollution spilled from middle east to Pakistan and Afghanistan. They recruited quite a number of bangla speaking muslims too. After facing tough situations there, a lot of them are harboring shelters to Bangladesh. A lot of petrodollars are being spent for them by their recruiters. They are definite threat for Bangladesh. They talk about religion, like you do, but work as agents and trying to convert Bangladesh into dark age Khilafat. If you are unaware about this unfortunate situation, please try to find out. However, my request to you that if you want to remain as a human right advocate, you must see all human equally regardless of religion, orientation, culture, color, creed or national origin. If you take side with fanatic islamists, your human right logo will just be in vain.
 
Thanks,
KR





To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
From: mufassili@hotmail. com


It seems Mr. Turkman strikes a zero again. I don't know what's wrong with this man!! He keeps on babbling in his confused state of mind and it seems he is the only one who is up and awake with all that rubbish peep holes that someone can see from fanatic burkhas (un-Islamic) towards open-brandishing sex-shops in Time Square , New York where I need to close my children's eyes. Yes, I agree to some extent to his views of secularism as to state and I agree that is the way a sate should behave. But I am not equally surprised again by his failed dilemma of distorted Islamic view. He belongs to those groups of people who think in Bangladesh there can be no religious Muslim who can hate Jamaat's stand during liberation war and I think he belongs to that invisible people who think Islamic Law means cutting off forehands for stealing when not a single man was subjected to that during the prophet (pbuh)'s time and don't know the reason why!! He talks about women beating. Well what does records say? Where do we see worst atrocities on women?? What does the Bible say when it depicts Eve to have had misled Adam and Quran does not recogise that and confirms that both Adam and Eve were misled together? Somalia or Afghnistan? Well shock for him NO - it is in Angola and USA where Muslims are minorities that women are worst treated. Shock again that by the time I am done with this letter - hundreds of women will be raped by hooligans in those countries as there is no Islamic law. There a fast car and a half naked woman on the bill board says together  - 'Take me for a Test Drive'. Some views may sound nice from afar as being humane but in reality they fail in practice. Want to talk about Human Rights? Well ask Mrr. McCaine under what law did he keep the Bangladeshi girl in violation of our national law about adoption. Dare ask him? Come on I am taunting you Mr. Turkman - the unseen! He took the girl for treatment from the Teresa Orphanage in the name of treatment and decided never to return and now look she stands as a publicity stunt. What steps did your future president take (as a I am sure blind many Americans will selfishly vote for this war-lover) to bridge Briggett with her origin. Well you may say it worked out for her and she is having a good life - I on the other hand have seen hundreds of these children returning to Bangaldesh - ### ed up in head as they cannot find their roots. Islam does not allow this type of adoption at all. Do you know that?? Well sorry I forgot you claim to be a too white (too white to be a Bangladeshi) and too anti-Islamic and too much pro-Western to recongise that.
 
At least I have a God who talks to me. Does your Bible talk to you apart from Holy Ghost inspiring even Christ to utter a few lines only in the whole Bible? Well Islam still allows you to roam in your ignorance and that is secularism.
 
Mufassil Islam




From: turkman@sbcglobal. net


Sir,
You are confusing Secularism with Anti Islamism. Your own Moslim Brothers in Canada, USA and Western Europe love Secularism because all it means is that ...
 
*  State would not impose any religion on citizens,
*  no laws would be made to please one religion or the other,
*  all are free to practice, whichever religion they want,
*  all have Freedom of Speech & Expression and Human Rights of all are protected.
 
Please explain, why what's good for your brothers abroad and has created a better society than ours is no good for your country?
 
Why should ...
 
*  Wife Beatings be allowed?
*  Honor Killings, Female Killings, Female Infanticide, Female Fetal Abortions with the help of Ultra Sound Machine to learn the gender of Pregnancy ahead of time should be allowed?
*  You people be allowed to bomb and kill each other or Non Moslims?
*  You people should be allowed to impose ancient and in some cases out-dated and obsolete Islamic Shriyah on people without their approval?
*  Borqah the Mini Tent be worn by our Women, when we see no practical need of it since we are no more like Bedouin Savages of 7th Century, who used to get turned-on looking at face of a female and used to start raping her?
 
If you have this problem, you should be sent to Mental Hospital. Why should all of us change just because of you are still a Savage Brain, sir?
If you want to be treated by Shriyah Law Punishments, we would be glad to execute your beheading for rape and murder but you are dreaming that you would be able to impose your Savage Talibani System here. Wake up, this is 21st Century, not 7th ...!
Clock moves forward, not backwards.    

--- On Sun, 8/31/08, Mohammed Ramjan <mramjan@hotmail. com> wrote:

Despite of the subject/points for and against M. Anis and Ms Farida Majid, I have the followings:

There is no option for a true Muslim to be a secularist. Yeaa Kana budu – we only pray for you, Ibadat -which extend from personal life to statehood life.

Leading a multicultural life does not mean that a Muslim have to be secular.

Prophet Mohammed (sm) was not a secular, his shabi were not secular. Muslim Caliphates after prophet were not secular, how and from where some Muslims tend to be secular we do not understand. Western magnetic induced man and women can have such aqida which is far from Islam.

Secularist people can do all kinds of heinous act not the Islamist. Hitler Mussolini all was secular.

 

At the end I would request all the forum members to use modern English not the Victorian from which the west has shifted a long ago. 

Thanks

Mohammed Ramjan Ali Bhuiyan

Kuwait  

 


To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
From: farida_majid@ hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:28:55 -0400
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] Re: How Bangladesh should react to increasing influence of Islam

Dear Anis saheb,
 
        I will comply with your request to explain the Qura'anic verse.  Explicating the language of the Qur'an is always a pleasure, and in this case there could an additional reward of exposing the nature of falsehood, i.e., the basic premise of your mischievous piece. But I humbly refuse to engage in any "point by point" argument as per your invitation.
 
      Wa la talbisoo alhaqqa bilbaTili wa taktumoo alhaqqa wa antum t'alamoona [2:42]
And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
 
       The verb root 'labasa' or 'cover' gives rise to other words such as 'lebaas' meaning cloth or clothes. So, here, 't-albisoo alhaqqa' meaning 'covering or cloaking the truth' indicates a strong sense of intentionality.  In ...bil baTili ..., 'bi' is a frequently used preposition in Arabic most often translated in English as 'with'. The word 'baTil' can have many nuanced meanings such as 'falsehood', 'illegal' 'unjustified' 'harmful' etc. 
    
       The verse, therefore, is more than a simple interdiction against lying.  It captures the act of deceitful men succinctly and cautions against indulging in telling the worst kind lies  -- that which cleverly and intentionally conceals the truth in order to cause unjustified harm. Your article, along with some of the Jamaati-style propaganda, is the best example of what the Qur'an has explicitly forbidden us to do.
 
      Your knowledge of Islam is indeed very poor otherwise you would not have used the word 'Islam' so indicriminately to describe such a variety of things ranging from dishonest political posturing,  political propaganda, misogynistic politics and even the Arabic language of the Qur'an.
 
        To say that almost all Islam-'ponthi' people were against the independence of Bangladesh is one of the most insulting remarks to the sovreignty of Bangladesh,  to the general populace of this populous country, and it is surely one of the most sinful lies one can possibly utter! It is also an unforgivable insult to the religion of Islam in Bangladesh.
 
         The truth is only a handful of crooks were involved in heinous activities during the 1971 War of Liberation intent on preventing the independence from Pakistan. And these crooks only pretended to be Pakistan's collaborators.  They were much worse than that, and unfortunately they are still with us. Any good Muslim, anywhere in the world, would hesitate to call them co-religionists.
 
         Secularism, by the way, is a constitutional issue. It protects the rights of religions especially in a multicultural, multireligious country like Bangladesh.
 
         Thanks.
 
         Farida Majid
 
        
       

    



To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
From: dr_anisur_rahman@ yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 06:30:54 +0000
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: How Bangladesh should react to increasing influence of Islam


Dear Ms. Farida Majid,

It seems to me that your e-mail address has been hacked becuase it
looks unusual to me that a secularist like you are quoting from from
Quran. If it is not hacked, then the assumption I made in my article
that influence of Islam is increasing amoung Bangladeshis is true.

I do not know what the verse you mentioned means. My knowledge about
Islam is almost nil. Please give us a translation of it.

I will higly appreciate if you kindly let me know what are the
falsehoods I am trying to spread in my article. It contains 11
points and if you identify the point(s) you have question about, then
I will try to clarify my position.

Regards.

Anis

--- In alochona@yahoogroup s.com, Farida Majid <farida_majid@ ...>
wrote:
>
>
> How Bangladesh should react to such wicked exercise in
indecent exposure of lies?
> We should remind ourselves of the Qur'anic caution:
>
> Wa la talbisoo al-Haqqa bi alBaTili wa taktumu al-Haqqa wa
antum t'alamoona.
>
> --Sura
Baqarah, verse 42
>
> May Allah save us from such spread of falsehoods
that this author is spreading.
>
> -- Farida Majid
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Alochoks,
>
> Like elsewhere in the world, the influence of religion is
increasing in Bangladesh. You will hardly find any mosque in Dhaka
in Friday which can provide space for all those who come to pray.
The spread of Hijab is also noticeable. Religion based political
parties are expanding their support base. It has posed a risk for
the country because countries like India are trying to create a
fundamentalist image of Bangladesh and using the rising Islam as a
tool for that. What should we do in this situation? I tried to
analyse it in my article published at:
>
> http://www.sonarban gladesh.com/ article.php? ID=235
>
> Please share your views on this critical issue.
>
> Regards.
>
> Anis
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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[mukto-mona] Rabindranath Tagore, Nobel Prize 1913 Speech

Rabindranath Tagore is the best Bengalee writer. He will perhaps be
remembered for his songs as long as the Bengalees live on this earth.

About a couple of years back I wrote short messages (one being
number 22828)about his so-called Banquet Speech, and the
Presentation Speech by Harald Hjärne, Chairman of the Nobel
Committee of the Swedish Academy, on December 10, 1913.

The so-called Banquet Speech by Rabindranath Tagore was not a speech
but a short'message'and it is as follows:

QUOTE:

I beg to convey to the Swedish Academy my grateful appreciation of
the breadth of understanding which has brought the distant near, and
has made a stranger a brother.

UNQUOTE.

As far as the Presentation Speech by Harald Hjärne, Chairman of the
Nobel Committee of the Swedish Academy, on December 10, 1913 is
concerned it was confirmed in that speech that Rabindranath Tagore
was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature as 'an Anglo-Indian'. The
following opening words from the speech will confirm it:

QUOTE:

In awarding the Nobel Prize in Literature to the Anglo-Indian poet,
Rabindranath Tagore, the Academy has found itself in the happy
position of being able to accord this recognition to an author who,
in conformity with the express wording of Alfred Nobel's last will
and testament, had during the current year, written the finest
poems «of an idealistic tendency.

UNQUOTE.

The Visva Bharati, as far as I know, perhaps never published these
valuable information anywhere. Nor I found these information in any
other publication. For reference details one may visit the following
Website:
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1913/press.ht
ml

There is no news confirming that Rabindranath Tagore was present at
the time of giving the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1913.

I just wanted to know from the Rabindranath Tagore's readers present
in this 'mukto-mona' column if they have any further information on
the subjects above.

I am sending this message for information needs without any
prejudice at all.


A. B. M. Shamsud Doulah
G.P.O. Box 351
Dhaka-1000, Bangladesh

Email: shamsuddoulah@yahoo.com

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http://www.mukto-mona.com/human_rights/university_teachers_arrest.htm

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MM site is blocked in Islamic countries such as UAE. Members of those theocratic states, kindly use any proxy (such as http://proxy.org/) to access mukto-mona.

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http://www.mukto-mona.com/human_rights/kansat2006/members/


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MM Project : Grand assembly of local freedom fighters at Raumari
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Mukto-Mona Celebrates Darwin Day:

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[mukto-mona] Christians will be wiped out from Kandhamal : VHP

The Christians will be wiped out from Kandhamal : VHP

 

I am born of a hindu Brahmin family.My father and other relatives being devotedly religious persons used to tell me that sanyasis are symbols of love, care, truth, justice above earthly hatred-ness, jealousy, violence. We were told about the stories of Swami Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Param Hansa, Sri Chaitanya, Jayadev, Aurovindo. During my childhood, it would have been quite difficult to digest that sadhus and saints engaged for spreading hate and violence. Similarly there would be many people to disbelieve that sadhus are campaigning for votes to a particular party and using religion for political ends. So nobody should  get surprised if they call for wiping out the Christians from Kandhamal in the presence of BJP State President and High Police Official.

 

On 6th August 2008 there were 144 in and around Swadhinata Sangrami Sadan Ground. Considering the announcements and assurance given by the Police Officers and others, it was thought the government will not allow any rally or meeting of VHP. But the VHP had its Sraddhanjali sabha (Tribute paying meet) and along with sadhu (ascetic holy man) sanths (saints), BJP leaders such as Suresh Pujari (President,Orissa BJP), Prasanna Mishra, Panchanan Rout, MLA Pratap Sarangi and Subash Chouhan, Bajranga Dal leader were present in the Meeting.

 

Please read some of the statements given in the meeting:-

 

Mahant Swami Satchidananda Maharaj, presiding over the Meet

 

Sacrifice of Swamiji will be meaningful once the cow-slaughter and conversion is totally stopped in the state. In each village committees will be formed to actualize the dreams of Swamiji. If the villagers get awareness, these will be stopped automatically.

 

 

Tridandi Swami Bhagwan Das

 

Now the Hindus have become minority. There is an international conspiracy behind it. The Christians, majority in 186 countries have not only killed Laxmanananda, but also doing this; they have challenged the entire Hindu Society.

 

Swami Arupananda Maharaj

 

Attack on Swamiji is the same as attacking the 'Hindu Religion'. All the saints/sadhus need to counter-attack unitedly otherwise the entire India will be converted into a Christian nation.

 

Swami Brahmananda Saraswati

 

Once the Englishmen came for trade and commerce had occupied our country. Now Christians in the name of 'the minorityism' have come again to take away our 'independence'. If the attack continues like this, the Hindu community will be wiped out one day.

 

Swami Satyapriya Maharaj,Arya Samaj

 

The Government is like an eunuch that could not give protection to Swamiji, but continue in giving protection to murderers.

 

Abinash Baba, Joranda

 

This is a country of saints and sadhus and the country is 'functioning' for them only. The Government should provide security and protection to mathas and temples.

 

Ramacharan Das Maharaj

 

Limiting ourselves in mere blaming the Government will not serve the purpose. We have to realize and decide that whoever will be able to understand the Hindu religion and respect the saints and sadhus can sit on the throne. If this happens, all the problems will be solved.

 

Swami Chanmayananda Maharaj

 

The Hindus occupying 85 % of total population are screaming, but the government pays no heed to it. The situation is like this only because we are not united.  If we unitedly put all our votes for one party, everything will be set aright. Shankaracharya should be entrusted with the responsibility to decide whom to vote for and issue 'whips' to cast all our votes accordingly. By this whichever party comes to power will be compelled to respect our words.

 

Ashok Sahu, President, Hindu Jagaran Samukhya (former DG,Police Assam)

 

Raphel Chinath,President, Loka Sangram Dalit Manch and John Doyal have hands behind the murder of Laxmanananda.

 

Gouri Prasad Rath, General Secretary, VHP

 

Now Orissa is run under demonic prowess. The sadhus and sanths were arrested for no reason. They were not allowed to have darshan (see) to Sri Ram temple. The Police should beg apology for insulting the Hindu community in Orissa by arresting the sadhus and saints. As we were not allowed to hold condolence (sradhhanjali) rally, henceforth we'll never allow anybody to hold peace rallies here. Unless the killers of Swamiji are arrested, there will be no peace in Orissa.

 

Ashok Tiwary, VHP's Akhil Bharatiya Dharma Jagaran Pramukh; Ramanuj Das Moharaj, Chintamani Parbat Maharaj, Mahanta Raghubir Das Maharaj, Mahanta Ram Charan Das Maharaj, Mahant Ramakrishna Das Maharaj, Sankarananda Maharaj, Mahant Narayan Baba, Brahmachari Jiban Chaitanya Maharaj, Swami Prana Swarupananda Maharaj have taken vow – The Christians will be wiped out from Kandhamal.
 
Dhirendra Panda
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[mukto-mona] Biden and Palin treading a different path

Two VP candidates in America treading a different path
 
A.H. Jaffor Ullah
 
On September 3, 2008 the first-term governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin, gave an "electrifying" speech and with that she single-handedly solidified the Republican "base."  Through her speech she defined who she is because not many Americans with the exception of Alaskans knew who she was.  Thus, it makes hell of a lot of sense for McCain campaign to introduce Governor Palin to American electorates.  However, the Republican convention is long gone but the media is yet to hear a single word emanating from her lip vis-à-vis the burning that are bound to have effects on common Americans such as inflation of everyday commodities including gasoline price, rising unemployment rate, weakness in housing sector, looming recession, Iraq War, and a host of other domestic and international issues.
 
The McCain campaign is making sure that their VP candidate, Sarah Palin, won't face the media scrutiny via interviews with the national newspaper reporters.  However, she will have to debate with Senator Joe Biden, the Democratic VP candidate on October 2, 2008 at the campus of Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri.  Perhaps because of the forthcoming VP debate she is taking time out to prepare herself for this important event.  So much is at stake on this debate that the McCain campaign is preparing the rookie politician for this event.  Will she win the debate by a knockout?  Stay tuned.
 
Now, let us look at Senator Biden who is Sarah Palin's counterpart in the forthcoming election to capture the White House.  Unlike Palin, who is a political neophyte, Biden is a seasoned politician who spent nearly 30 years in Washington D.C.  I recon this is not a smart thing to say about any politician; never mind a candidate who is running for the VP.  Some may even say that Biden is a Washington insider and no change in the way politics are being done at the Capitol could be achieved if Senator Biden and Senator Obama are elected to the office.  Mind you that just like Biden, Senator McCain is a quintessential Washington insider.  Therefore, Republican may face the same criticism as leveled against Obama and Biden.
 
Governor Palin however is a different breed of politician.  Even her staunchest critic won't be able to say that she is a Washington insider.  Her sphere of politics stops at Anchorage, the capital of Alaska.  Lest we forget, Alaska is far removed from contiguous lower 48 states.  Since Alaska is located far away from the lower 48 states, Governor Palin could be labeled at best a regional politician.  I can bet my bottom dollar on this issue that over 95% Americans had the slightest idea as to who she is before the St. Paul convention.  Barely three days before the Republican Convention on August 29, 2008 went underway, had the McCain campaign introduce her to American public in a political rally in Dayton, Ohio.  Since then, the American peoples' interest in her had skyrocketed.  But she maintained a low profile while accompanying Senator McCain in several battleground states.  The people magazine did a photo shoot of her, which graced the pages of this glossy magazine.  Most major magazines and newspapers have published the photogenic face of this 44 years old politician but she kept her lip tightly sealed; therefore, American voters have no clues whether she agrees with John McCain on most national and international issues.
 
The national news media have already learned that McCain campaign is tightlipped about Sarah Palin's stance on a variety of issues.  This is worth mentioning here that the McCain campaign had skirmishes with the New York Times when earlier this year as primaries were going on, news came out about McCain's alleged affair with a Washington lobbyist.  Although John McCain vigorously defended his character but a Cold War was started between the McCain campaign and NY Times since then.  The McCain campaign makes it very clear at every opportunity it gets to tell that the "liberal" media prefers Obama-Biden ticket.  Therefore, it is very clear that Republican Party officials and John McCain have acrimony with members of the "liberal" media such as NY Times, Washing Post, CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, etc., but has ample support from the conservative mews organizations such as Wall Street Journal, FOX network, etc.
 
Unlike McCain campaign Senator Biden was let loose by Obama campaign immediately after the successful completion of Denver Convention in late August 2008.  Since then the media has full access to him and he is talking to the media without being monitored by the Obama campaign.  I read a report on Biden's interview with NBC news, which prompted me to write this article.
In that NBC interview Senator Biden says he has debated "an awful lot of tough, smart women" throughout his career and that next month's vice presidential debate with Republican Sarah Palin will be no exception. However, he would like to know where she stands on issues.
 
"She's a smart, tough politician, so I think she's going to be very formidable," Biden told NBC's "Meet the Press' on September 7, 2008.  Biden is a sixth-term senator from Delaware who said, "There's a lot of very tough, smart women in the United States Senate I debate every day." So going up against the first-term governor, he said: "It's not new." In the televised interview he also mentioned his wife, Jill, who has a doctorate degree.
 
When Biden was asked whether he'd debate Palin differently than he would Republicans Mitt Romney or Tom Ridge, two former governors who figured into speculation about John McCain's running mate, Senator Biden said the only difference is that he knows their positions on issues.  He said, "I have no idea what her policies are. I assume they're the same as John's. I just don't know," he said of Palin.
 
Biden also recognized that Palin had delivered a great speech to the Republican National Convention on September 3, 2008 in St. Paul, Minnesota, but "her silence on the issues was deafening."
 
"She didn't mention a word about health care, a word about the environment, a word about the middle class. They never parted her lips ... so I don't know where she is on those things."
 
In summary, the McCain campaign is keeping their VP candidate under a tight leash while the Democratic VP candidate is addressing the nation via televised interviews.  Does the McCain campaign feel uneasy about their candidate facing the national press?  It seems as if Governor Palin is now on a steep learning curve.  John McCain is not about to unleash her until it is a sure thing that she could face the onslaught of questions from the press without making a fool out of herself.  Stay tuned, more is yet to come.
--------------------
Dr. A.H. Jaffor Ullah, a researcher and columnist, writes from New Orleans, USA
 
 

 
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[ALOCHONA] Re: More than 75% Indians live below poverty line

What a funny stuff...'Almost 90% Indians live below
poverty line'...???
CLEAR UP DATA MAN!!!
% OF PEOPLE LIVING POVERTY LINE IN INDIA IS 23.6% IN URBAN AND 26.1
IN RURAL AREAS.


--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Isha Khan <bd_mailer@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 8/31/08, Muhammad Javed Iqbal <javediqbalkaleem@...>
wrote:
>
>
> From: Muhammad Javed Iqbal javediqbalkaleem@...
>
> Subject: [notun_bangladesh] More than 75% Indians live below
poverty line
>
> To: notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com
>
> Date: Sunday, August 31, 2008, 12:22 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> My heart bleeds for the Indian poor. Almost 90% Indians live below
> poverty line. The government of India is callous and shameless when
> it comes to rescuing its poors. To hide facts, it has arbitarily
> fixed the povertyline at Rs 10 per day, whereas the standard fixed
> by world bank and asian bank was US $ 1 which has now been
increased
> to 1.35 dollars due to increasing food prices.
>
> I wonder how ungrteful and thankless we Pakistanis are who are far
> more better off than the Indians.
>
> Whereas the minimum wage in Paksitan is Rs 6000, Government of
> India has fixed it at Rs 1250. No wonder, many emploees of Indian
> government live below poverty line, not to speak of millions who
> work in un-organized sectors or are unemployed. India's
> population living below povertyline exceeds 90% because now the
> Asian Bank has fixed povertyline at Us $ 1.35 per day per person.
> An Indian expert has calculated Indian poverty in the
> following manner:
>
> No. Earnings of diffrent types of employees in India Converted into
> Rs./month
> 1. Average cost of employee* in Air-India Rs. 53,000
> 2. Average cost of employee* in MARUTI UDYOG Rs. 24,000
> 3. Average cost of employee* in the MUMBAI MUNICIPAL CORP. Rs.
> 16,000
> 4. Minimum starting salary in the FIRE Dept. in Mumbai Rs. 7,000
> 5. Average earning of an Indian - US$ 440 per year or about (This
is
> based on a GDP of US$ 440 billion
> and 1 billion people) Rs. 1,727
> 6. Minimum earning required, as per WORLD BANK, to live at above
> poverty line, for underdeveloped
> countries like India, China etc, about US$ 1.0 per day or US$ 30
per
> month Rs. 1,410
> 7. MINIMUM WAGES, as per Government of India, for all the States,
> about Rs. 40 to 60 per day per
> person, average about Rs. 50 per day. For 25 days per month Rs.
> 1,250
> 8. POVERTY LINE definition, as per Government of India, see below
> for
> explanation, at Rs. 10 per day,
> per person, approx. Rs. 300
> Other related & relevant data In millions, people
> 9. Number of people, in India, who are below poverty line About 300
> million (30 Cr.)
> 10. Number of people, in India, who work in the organized Public
> Sector, i.e. with the Central and State
> Government About 19 million (1.9 Cr.)
> 11. Number of people, in India, who work in the organized Private
> Secto About 8 million (0.8 Cr.)
> 12. Number of people, in India, who work in the unorganized Sector
> About 320 million (32 Cr.)
> 13. Number of people, in India, who are unemployed approximately
> About
> 300 million (30 Cr.)
> 14. Number of JOBS which need to be created every year, to fulfill
> the
> aspirations of the people of India
> About 10 million/yr. (1 Cr.)
> 15. Number of people BORN every year in India (China is only 10
> million per yea About 27 million/yr. (2.7 Cr.)
> 16. Number of people, in India, who are below 35 years of age About
> 700 million (70 Cr.)
>
> 1. About us The World Bank's definition of the poverty line**, for
> under developed countries, like India, is US$ 1/day/person
> or US $365 per year. As per this definition, more than 75% of all
> Indians are, probably, below the poverty line!
> As per the Government of India, poverty line for the urban areas is
> Rs. 296 per month and for rural areas Rs. 276
> per month, i.e. people in India who earn less than Rs. 10 per day.
> As per GOI, this amount will buy food
> equivalent to 2200 calories per day, medically enough, to prevent
> death. At this level of earning, even in a poor
> country like India, survival on Rs. 10 per day is a nightmare! This
> actually translates to Rs. 3650 per year or US $ 75 per year.
> On what basis have our planners decided this definition of "Poverty
> Line"? Does it mean that the person will get enough food to stay
> alive? How and where is he or she supposed to cook it? What about
> the minimum needs in education, housing, health services,
> clothing,and other basic necessities? Are we supposed to live on
> pavements and sleep under trees from birth till death? YOU BE THE
> JUDGE!
> The minimum wages in India, vary from state to state and city to
> city, and average Rs. 1000 - 1250/month or
> Rs. 12,000 - 15,000/yr. Or US $ 250 - US $ 300/yr. India's per
> capita is US $ 440 per year. (China's is US $ 990).
> If India could provide Roads, Electricity, TV's and Telephones in
> every village, it would improve, education, health,
> family planning, agriculture, animal husbandry, GDP and reduce
> migration from vllages to cities.
>
> *Cost of employee = salary & wages + all allowances including
> housing + perks + retirement benefits.
>
> **1 million = 1,000,000 or 10 lacs. 1 lac = 1,00,000. 1 crore = 10
> million = 1,00,00,000.
>
> To verify you can look at this link:
>
> http://www.wakeupca ll.org/administr ation_in_ india/poverty_
line.php
>
> M .Javed Iqbal
>

------------------------------------

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[mukto-mona] Married at 9, slain by parents at 17 - where are the recalcitrants who were ranting about "morality" on these forums last week?


 
 

Married at 9, slain by parents at 17

By Bruce Loudon in Islamabad

September 06, 2008 12:00am

Article from: The Australian

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DESPAIR among human rights workers in Pakistan over a rash of so-called "honour killings" intensified yesterday when it was disclosed that a girl forced into marriage with a 45-year-old man at the age of nine had been killed by her parents because she asked for an annulment.

The girl, 17, who had been fighting a lonely but successful legal battle, was coming out of court in the Punjabi city of Sahiwal after being granted the annulment by a judge when she was surrounded by a group of men and shot in view of police.

The death of Saira Nusrat Bibi has added further to concerns among human rights campaigners already outraged over the case of five women - among them three teenage schoolgirls - buried alive in the province of Baluchistan because they wanted to marry men of their choice in defiance of the wishes of tribal leaders.

The Baluchistan case was worsened by an attempt by a member of the country's national parliament, senator Israr Ullah Zehri, to defend it, telling colleagues that "these are centuries-old traditions and I will continue to defend them", The Weekend Australian reports.

Members of the religious Jamaat-e-Islami party rounded on Senator Zehi, declaring: "We condemn this barbaric act. This is against Islam, against humanity and against civilised culture."

Yesterday, the Government bowed to pressure and ordered an inquiry into the killings.

Details that have emerged from the village of Baba Kot in Baluchistan indicate that the three girls -- aged between 16 and 18 - and two of their elderly relatives were "shot at" before being buried alive.

"When the fuming elders of the Umrani tribe came to know about the intentions of these girls, they picked them up from their homes along with two of their elderly relatives," one account said.

"The crying girls were pushed into official cars and driven to a deserted area. There they were pushed out of the cars, made to stand in a queue, and volleys of shots fired at them. As the bleeding girls fell to the sand, the tribesmen dragged them into a nearby ditch and levelled it with earth and stones.

"As the two shocked elderly women tried to rescue the hapless girls, they too were gunned down and buried in the same manner. The killers after burying these women returned to their tribe like conquerors without any action taken against them."


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[mukto-mona] Re: Atten: Dr Sukhamaya Bain

WRT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/49756

Akbar Hussain,

I agree most of your comments.

I was told by Gujarati Muslim recently that before the coming of
Islam India had nothing. Example: Islam gave Tajmahal. I wonder, if
Laura dies tomorrow and Pres. Bush sundertake construction of a
similar memorial, Americans would sure eulogize Bush.

It was a brilliant Muslim contribution to India, when general
peasantry were miserable. Farmers were selling their wives, children
in slave markets to pay up the taxes. In other instances, tax-
collectors were taking away the children from unfortunate farmers to
sell them for exactling the tax-demand.

Bengal had becoming the leading supply-house of eunuchs for India's
slave-markets since 13th century noted by Marco Polo, while at Shah
Jahan's time it was probably most widespread in Bengal. Helpless
parents in Bengal had their young sons castrated and gave to Muslim
tax-collectors or sold in markets to generating life-sustaining
revenue.

Having said that without Tajmahal, Redford -- India will be as great
a country today. But without British created universities, secular
education, court, secular-democracy -- it would not.

However, I would think that these things could have come to India
without the British occupation, too. Persia, Turkey -- despite
having an staunchly anti-secular and anti-assimilative creed -- had
strongly secular rulers in early 20th century, even without
occupation.

India had its advantage that her civilization had always been very
assimilative. Alexander came, did not stay in India for long, but by
the time of Islam's birth -- Greek thoughts in science and
philosophy had influenced India so greatly that India at this was
the leading torch-bearer of these ancient Greek endeavours. If that
standard applied, India would have assimilated West's new
discoveries in polity and intellectual endeavors quite easily,
probably without an occupation -- at least faster than nations like
Turkey, Iran (as they were in the 1920-30s).

The fact that Hindu India embraced democracy and excellence in
science and intellectual endeavors while Muslim Bangladesh/Pakistan
ditched them, says it all too.

---

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RE: [mukto-mona] Atten: Dr Sukhamaya Bain

WRT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/49754

Dear Chakabarty Dada,

Very powerful and pragmatic comments. I agree with you. Europe had a few very enlightened monarchs like Chralemagne , Peter the Great, Elizabeth I, Maria Theresa
but we had great rulers much before them like Vikramditya, Kanishka, Samudraguta, Ashoka etc. The intellectual and spiritual greatness of India was unparallalled during the ancient times. The scriptures like the Vedas and upanishadas were created, and an epic like the Mahabharata was only possible due to India's mastery in the field of ancient enlightenment.

Akbar Hussain

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[mukto-mona] British colonial power vs indigenous Kings

WRT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/49756

Akbar Bhaiya
 
1. India has gone through many ups and downs. Fragmented India has been unified many times. Guptas did it, Mauryas did it, Mughals did it, and finally it was done by the British colonial power. You are right when you say that foreign aggression may help tie together fragmented kingdoms. Surely it worked with Mughal aggression and British colonization. Both the Mughals and the British built the largest Indian empire.
 
2. There are qualitative differences between feudalism and capitalism. No doubt the latter is more progressive than the former, and as such, fall of feudal kings was historically inevitable and followed a dialectical process. All foreign aggressors like Mughals and Pathans came to India to become part of India. But the British came to India to expand its market as well as to ensure new sources of raw materials. Like the Mughals and the others they did not stay here; they went back. Because of the basic motives behind the aggression, nature of relationships between the British and India and between the Mughals and India were totally different. They had their own ways to love their subjects and exploit their subjects.
 
3. Capitalism is a product of industrial revolution which originated in Europe. Industrial revolution could not happen without advancement of science, technology, and rational thinking. Advancement of technology and science also meant advancement in armament which was necessary to ensure expansion of sources of raw materials and market for the finished products. It is not a question of who is more brutal---the colonial master or the Kings. Both needed to stay in power as long as possible. And in order to stay in power they needed both carrot and stick. British came as a looter to exploit India to the benefit of Britain. But even to loot you need an appropriate infrastructure which they had to build. Infrastructure included roads, schools, etc. They needed man power good enough to serve as clerks. But when they came they brought with them the looting tools as well as enlightenment which the Indians got from them as spill overs.
 
4. It was the time of the capitalists. It was a time when the Kings had nothing to offer unless they looked forward to the West and and its enlightenment.  Most of the Kings suffered from a kind of inertia and did not have time and readiness to be open. It is gathered from history that Tipu Sultan started to engage in fruitful exchanges with Europe. I believe gradually all other kings would start doing that. But it is hard to say now what could really have happened. 
 
 
5. India has always been a complex land and as such its history is also very complex. Over-simplistic views may not take us anywhere in a good debate.
 
Regards.
-SC
        


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