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Wednesday, February 11, 2009

[ALOCHONA] China’s Defence White Paper – 2008 -- An Indian Perspective

China's Defence White Paper – 2008 -- An Indian Perspective

 

By Bhaskar Roy 

 

Sharing a 4000 kilometre-long disputed border with China and having suffered a military attack from China in 1962, India cannot but be highly concerned about the aggressive military development in its immediate environment. China Defence White Paper – 2008 (hereafter referred to as Paper – 08) have some grave messages for its Asian neighbours which this paper intends to discuss.  

 

China started publishing Defence White Papers from 1995 in response to Western demands for transparency in its military developments. Since then it has come a long way. The Paper-08 allows a much deeper look to the outsider into China's thinking. What one sees does not inspire hope for an Asian age according to the "five principles of peaceful co-existence" and region of equality and stability.  

 

It would be interesting to go back ten years and have a brief look at the Defence White Paper-1998. The approach was less aggressive than in 2008. It was the time that China's top leader Jiang Zemin had just shifted the People's Liberation Army (PLA) to top gear in Revolution in Military Affairs (RMA). The PLA had entered the informalization age and was striving for much greater mechanization.  

 

In 1998, China was behaving under late Deng Xiapoing's dictum of "hide your strength, and bide your time" while developing allround strength and capability to emerge as a nation capable of standing upto the United States. Deng, the architect of modern China, concluded after the 1989 students' uprising that the US would not allow the Chinese nation to challenge America's sway. Following the "July 4" 1989 incident which confused the country Deng told a visiting African leader that the turmoil was instigated by America's "peaceful evolution" operation i.e. promoting democracy peacefully by overt and covert means of propaganda and agent provocateurs.  

 

Although the 1998 White Paper castigated India for its nuclear tests and squarely blamed it for lifting the nuclear lid in South Asia, it also noted the 1996, Confidence Building Measures (CBH) agreement in the military field along the LAC between the two countries positively. Positive developments with the United States that year were also noted, especially in the military and strategic bilateral issues.  

 

Going by Deng Xiaoping's advice, the then pre-eminent Chinese leader, President Jiang Zemin, who was also the Chairman of the powerful Central Military Commissioner (CMC), subordinated military development to economic development and made a case for a peaceful environment to focus on economic construction. China, of course, had graduated to the doctrine of "active defence" or "forward defence" to protect the "motherland", took note of "hot spots" without specifically naming any, and declared that "local wars" were within the realm of China's security threat perspective.  

 

The 2008 Paper makes some adjustment from its 2006 edition, claiming to have become more transparent. It must be noted that it was only for the second time that this annual White Paper was delayed by about three weeks from the usual time of publication during the third or early fourth week of December. The reason is not far to see. The message was to the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, who was confirmed on January 20. The basic message: China was now a great power though still behind the USA in military might, but its economic clout gave it the strength to work with Washington to stabilize the global economic melt down. In spite of policy short comings and other drawbacks it cannot be denied that China has emerged as an economic power house with an important say in World economy.  

 

It would be important, especially for China's neighbours, to try and interpret its military doctrine. Its military doctrine is not a single postulate but several doctrines with "Chinese characteristics" i.e. how exactly they suit China's conditions at that particular period of time. In the 1980s and early 1990s, the basic doctrine was one of purely defence. Following international outrage over the brutal suppression of the student revolution demanding transparency  from the government, an end to corruption and rights for the people to criticize wrong doings by the Communist Party and government bureaucrats and leaders, Deng Xiaoping came out with the theory/policy of "hide your strength and bide your time". Deng was of the view that the US was sabotaging China's development through "peaceful evolution", i.e. surreptitiously encouraging democracy in a Communist country. China will be alert about "peaceful evolution" for a long time, but as recent reports from the Chinese media indicate, demands for freedom to express one's opinion is increasing from the Chinese people and, even, the officially controlled media.  

 

In the phase above, China had a high threat perception. It was in self-conflict whether the US in the Asia Pacific region was good for them or a threat. The late Deng Xiaoping laid down that the US was the most important country for China and hence it was in China's interest to avoid confrontation with Washington as far as possible. It was decided the US would be a balancing force in the region, despite its East Asian alliance and special relations with Taiwan. Deng's chosen top leader of China, Jiang Zemin, read the American mind very well. He advised that the Chinese leaders should ignore whatever US Presidents say during their electoral campaigns. 

 

Jiang was right. Bill Clinton called the Chinese leaders "butchers of Beijing" during his election campaign, but was with them in bed during his Presidency. George W. Bush turned Clinton's description of China as "strategic partner" to "strategic competitor", but it was business as usual. Not much change is expected during Barack Obama's term because it simply cannot be done. In fact, Obama's foreign policy discarding "regime change" operations and inclination to avoid military backed policy initiatives like in Iran may get two countries together. But there are also major strategic issues between the two countries, especially given the fact China may be signaling a kind of a Monroe doctrine, stretching to parts of Middle East, Africa and Central Asia.

    

The mid-1990s and 2003-2004 period was one of consolidation of relations with neighbours and more mature dealings with the US with, of course, doses of nationalism. The 1998 White Paper noted India's nuclear test in May that year with severe disapproval while viewing Pakistan's tests as only a reaction to India's. But it also recorded, as stated earlier, the 1996 Sino-Indian CBM agreement on the borders. A 1996 event hardly has a place in a 1998 annual report, but was brought in for a message. During this period, relations with Russia was recast, even going to the extent of renegotiating the border demarcation treaty on the eastern part of the Sino-Russian boundary on Russian insistence. Jiang also settled relations with Japan to a great extent, disturbed temporarily by his successor Hu Jintao's visit in 2008 before the Olympic games. The Beijing leaders, at that time, were on an aphrodisiac high.   

 

Under President Hu Jintao, who is also the Communist Party head and Chairman of the powerful Central Military Commission (CMC) which makes defence policies, the Chinese leaders began to feel power. An officially sponsored debate questioned the relevance of Deng Xiaoping's policy of continuing to hide China's strength any longer since they were the third most powerful economic power in the world getting closer to the second position, and a military power with a nuclear strike force which could deter a US strike. Hu Jintao's political and strategic advisor Zheng Binyan proposed the "Rise of China" theory, which had to be pruned down to "peaceful rise of China' because of alarm mainly from South East Asian neighbours. The damage, however, was done. Questions over China's growing might is an issue among its South East Asian neighbours. 

 

The Defence White Paper of 1996, 1997 and 1998 have incrementally projected China's growing capabilities. A commentary published in the People's Liberation Army (PLA) publication, the 'Military Digest' (2008) titled "Phase of Exercising Restraint in National Defence is over" explained that CCP General Secretary (Sept. 2007) declared China will strike to "occupy a well matched military position in the world while striving to become the third economic power in the world. Recent Chinese reports claim it may have become the second economic power.  

 

The Military Digest comment indicated that soon after taking over the leadership of China in 2002, Hu directed that military power must grow in tandem with economic power. This was a major doctrinal shift, rearranging Deng's "four modernization" (agriculture, industry, science and technology) order of priority to an over all two modernization "economy and national defence". Hu late made it clear that economy and defence (national security) could not be delinked – without economic power there would be no military power, and without the military providing security there could be no economic development.  

 

Hu Jintao's strategic vision was simple: if you do not have military power no one will respect you. He demolished the theory of soft power working alone. Some Indian experts have been bandying the theory that soft power succeeds by itself, giving the examples of Germany and Japan. They clearly avoid mentioning that both Germany and Japan are under NATO and US military and nuclear umbrella, and both the countries have quietly built formidable military capabilities.  

 

"Active defence" remains the basic doctrine of China's conventional military strategy, with its ambit increasing as the country's Comprehensive National Power (CNP) increases and interests abroad expand. National security is no longer limited to defence of the borders but also screening political, diplomatic and economic interests overseas. China is short of hydro carbon energy and basic raw materials to keep its economic growing at an average of 8% to 9% at least.  

 

Active defence, also referred to as 'forward defence', means holding on to territories gained. In plain terms it would mean control of land or maritime territories. In a political sense it could also reflect in winning over governments and people. While the USA has used military power for regime change abroad, Beijing seems to be using its military and economic power in favour of regimes/governments to keep them in its fold.  

 

A review of China's military development would, however, suggest that active defence is a much larger and integrated concept. Scientific and technological development work closely with military development. Informationization warfare has replaced "high technology warfare under modern conditions" to win local wars. Mao Zedong's people's war concept has undergone sophistication to dovetail civilian structures and activities mainly for logistic support to the military. Tackling terrorism, separation and splitism, and non-lethal challenges like national disasters such as floods and earthquakes have been added to the active defence concept, too.     

 

The PLA expects informationalization of a high degree by 2020, and claims it will have basic mechanization of its special units by 2010. Information warfare and mechanization have implications for China's neighbourhood especially those considered "hot spots". The Sino-Indian boundary is one "hot spot" along which China has upgraded roads and other infrastructure in recent years. It also plans to extend the Tibet railway from Lhasa to the Sino-Indian border.  

 

The 2008 Papers gives a lot of emphasis on the navy or PLAN. It says that "in line with the off-shore defence strategy, the navy takes informationlization as the orientation and strategic priority of its modernization drive, and is endeavouring to build a strong navy". The navy embarked on its blue water task sooner than expected, deploying its advanced destroyers to the Somali coast last month for anti-piracy operation. Expectedly, its ships came face to face an Indian navy submarine which was photographing and recording the signals and other characteristics of the Chinese warships. This is not abnormal. In December 2006, a Chinese submarine spooked the US aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk near Japan. One can expect more Chinese naval vessels plying the Indian Ocean and using Pakistan's Gwadar deep sea port, built by the Chinese. A port or berthing facilities in Myanmar could be a reality in the near future.  

 

China's nuclear doctrine of no first use, and not using nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states and nuclear free zones, still remain opaque. The 2008 Paper says its nuclear forces will go into a state of alert and get ready for a counter attack if China comes under a nuclear threat. Further, it will launch a major counter attack if it comes under a nuclear attack. This is questionable, however, and has to be read with various statements made by Chinese military leaders. Chai Yujiu, Vice Principal of the Nanjing Army Command College had told a Hong Kong newspaper that the "policy of not to use nuclear weapons first is not unlimited, without conditions, without premises". Others have made it clear that no first use was not a passive concept. Hence, one cannot assume that in case of a conventional war, China's no first use of nuclear weapons is an absolute principle.

A study (August 2008) by the China Institute of International and Strategic Studies (CIISS), the PLA's prime think tank, argued that in the new situation of the "no first use' doctrine, maintaining a small number of nuclear weapons as deterrent had become obsolete. It also suggested a large nuclear arsenal of Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) espoused by the USA and the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Chinese experts have also been studying the recent nuclear up-gradation plans of both the USA and Russia.

 

These observations from Chinese officials and think tanks are not idle, and not taken lightly by most of China's neighbours like Japan and disputed Taiwan. Japan has a huge repository of plutonium, and technology to fabricate nuclear weapons very quickly. Its front line aircraft can be wired to carry nuclear weapons, and its missile capability has been demonstrated. It is said Japan is one screw driver turn away from making the bomb. When it does so will depend upon what China does. The huge trade relations between the two countries is not a deterrent for Japan to prepare itself against a military eventuality.

 

Testifying before the Senate Arms Services Committee (Jan. 27, 2009) US Defence Secretary Robert Gates, identified the threats of Chinese military modernization by stating that "the area of greater concern are Chinese investments and growing capabilities in cyber and anti-satellite warfare, anti-air and anti-ship weaponry, submarines and ballistic missiles". 

 

The Chinese claim they have the right to build their military for self-defence and this sophistication should be commensurate with their threat perception. At the same time it has to be responsible enough to take into consideration the threats other countries feel from its military modernization especially those who have territorial disputes with China. The major ones would include Japan, the five south East Asian countries which have claims on the Spartly group of Islands in the South China sea, and India.  

 

Cyber and space war capabilities are two other areas of concern. When China shot down one of its defunct satellites with a ground based missile in January 2007, the international community went into frenzied calculations. It was not a secret that China was working on space warfare including satellite based weapons and orbiting bombs using micro and nano-satellites against enemy satellites. The scope of such warfare is huge and can debilitate enemy communication and civilian cyber work.  

 

It is established that Chinese hackers have attacked and defaced cyber network and websites in many countries including India, Japan, South Korea and the USA among others. The Indian Prime Minister's Office (PMO) has not been spared either. If these are practice sessions during peace time, it can be imagined what China could do to the network of fledgling cyber powers during confrontations-local wars under informationalization.  

 

It is evident from the 2008 Paper and its activities and role in the international stage that China is not shy of demonstrating its capabilities and confidence against threats. Justifiably, therefore, it has focussed only on the United States as a partner and competitor. China's concerns over USA's increased "strategic attention to and input in the Asia Pacific region, further consolidating military alliances" and other activities were recorded carefully. Although relations with Taiwan have opened under the KMT Ma Ying-Jeo government, the suspicion still remains in Beijing that Washington will continue to arm Taiwan so that it remains a de-facto independent nation. US decision to sell 6.5 billion dollars  advanced weaponary to Taiwan is a case in point, along with the US Congress Taiwan Relations Act (TRA) which calls on the US government to protect Taipei if attacked.  

 

Taiwan is an issue of sovereignty for China as are Tibet and Xinjiang (which the Uighur separatists call East Turkistan). China sees the root of international support to the Dalai Lama coming from the USA, and suspects India is also supporting a restive Tibet for independence. They also suspect some US led support to the Uighur separatists. But with its new confidence, Beijing has declared a virtual war on anything that is even slightly perceived as separatism.  

 

The 2008 Paper does not mention India in any form. It does not need to. China has elevated itself as a Great Power and sees India in alliance with the US to encircle and restrict China. This is actually a deceptive strategic propaganda. China's problems is that a strong India in Asia would be competition along with Japan, especially with a new and growing India-Japan friendship. To Beijing's dismay, Japan side stepped the nuclear issue deftly and avoided opposing India at the Nuclear Supplier's Group (NSG) at Vienna last year. China reads this not only as a US brokered India-Japan deal, but Japan's own policy on possession of nuclear weapons.  

 

Some of India's neighbours look to China  as a support against this so-called "big brother" India. Pakistan is a special case. But recent statements by visiting Chinese dignitaries to Nepal assuring Kathmandu of securing its sovereignty and territorial integrity is a serious unfriendly act. Such statements encouraged Maoist hardliners in their anti-India tirade, and has created a crisis among political parties in Nepal. 

 

There is no doubt that the People's Republic of China has emerged as a major power. But it still has a long way to go. Perhaps prematurely, it is trying to force a unipolar Asia regime down the throats of other Asian countries. With its new capabilities China may be overstretching itself. It is becoming, if it has not already become, the single most destabilizing factor in Asia. Ask the South East Asian countries except, perhaps, Thailand whose leaders are now increasingly of Chinese origin.   

 

(The author is an eminent China analyst with many years of experience of study on the developments in China. He can be reached at grouchohart@yahoo.com)     




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[ALOCHONA] Syed Aslam's defence of the Indian journalist and Dr Dipu Moni

--- On Wed, 2/11/09, Zoglul Husain <zoglul@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Forwarding to you my reply to Syed Aslam's defence of the Indian journalist and Dr Dipu Moni and his derogatory remarks about the critics of the journalist and Dr Dipu Moni as 'known faces', as if his political face is not known to others.

From: zoglul@hotmail.co.uk
To: syed.aslam3@gmail.com
Subject: RE: [khabor.com] Fw: RE: Indian journo dares to call Bangladesh a ''buffer state''
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:07:37 +0000

Alas! (In Bangla:) 'Hai, Hai'!! The BAL high command did not hesitate to slam the Indian journalist quite hard (without waiting for any erudite digging out the history of the term 'buffer state' or for their studious determination of the courses of possible actions for Bangladesh in the event of a war between India and Pakistan!!). The high command, quite conspicuously, refrained from defending the honour of the 'golden silence' of Dr Dipu Moni, or of her gallant 'defenders of honour'! She was brushed off as a person who 'probably could not grasp the importance'  (the Daily Star)!!
 
Now, in the highest diplomatic joint press conference between two countries (i.e. in front of the open wide world), if our foreign minister fails to 'grasp the importance' of the international standing of our country, and subsequently, if she is brushed off by her own high command as naive in the world of diplomatic prowess and clout, shouldn't she wish the ground below her feet to divide open in a large crack so that she can jump into, or as it normally does not happen, shouldn't she resign on personal grounds to save her- and her supporters' honour??   
 
Reference: Today's (Dhaka, Wednesday, February 11, 2009) the News Today:  
 

'Buffer state':AL blasts Indian journo's remark


The ruling Awami League blew off the concept of ''buffer state'' as an unrealistic perception for Bangladesh and reminded that the nation didn't earn its independence as a gift, reports UNB.

"Bangladesh did not get the independent state through anyone's blessings.We achieved it through liberation war and we''ll protect it at any cost," said Awami League spokesman and LGRD Minister Syed Ashraful Islam.He made the remarks while talking to journalists during a break in the AL central working committee meeting at AL's Dhanmondi office Tuesday.
His attention drawn to an Indian journalist's query to Foreign Minister Dipu Moni, outrageously dubbing Bangladesh as a ''buffer state'', the AL spokesperson said the Foreign Minister could not guess the importance of the issue in the face of the insidious remark.

The Foreign Minister, a fresher in the job of dealing with diplomatic parlance, kept silent when Bangladeshi journalists wanted to know her reaction over the Indian journalist's salvo calling Bangladesh ''buffer state''.


Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 03:11:11 -0500
Subject: Re: [khabor.com] Fw: RE: Indian journo dares to call Bangladesh a ''buffer state''
From: syed.aslam3@gmail.com
To: khabor@yahoogroups.com; notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com; reform-bd@yahoogroups.com; amra-bangladesi@yahoogroups.com


Dr. Dipu Moni's showed her diplomatc skill at the first opportunity by remaining silent !
 
The hue and cry about the so-called buffer state is out and out
a propaganda for the sake of propaganda only. It is not very difficult to
understand why some  known vested faces are trying to make the
"Buffer state" an issue .... probably an attempt to catch some fish in
murkey water. .......
 
We have no border with Pakistan and we are not a satellite state of
Pakistan In any Indo-Pakistan conflict we should try to remain as Buffer
and neutral if that do not directly affect us...... we should mind our own
business only ....
 
 
buffer state:
A buffer state is a country lying between two rival or potentially hostile
greater powers, which by its sheer existence is thought to prevent conflict
between them. Buffer states when authentically independent typically
pursue a neutralist foreign policy, which distinguishes them from satellite states.

The conception of buffer states is part of the theory of balance of power
that entered European strategic and diplomatic thinking in the 17th century.
In the 19th century, the manipulation of buffer states like Afghanistan and the
Central Asian emirates was an element in the diplomatic "Great Game"
played out between the British and Russian Empire  for control of the
approaches to strategic mountain passes that led to British India.
 
Dr. Dipu Moni has shown her diplomatic skills by remaining
silent on the misuse of the word by the Indian journalist....
Undoubtly,  if speaking is silver, silence is gold .......
 
The nitpicking and sacastic remarks only reveals the defeatist
mentality of the BNP-Jammat protégé like AmarDesh patrika and other
BNP-Jamaat cronies.
 
It has been proven over and over again that politics of fear and
politics of India-bashing does not work well in Bangladesh
[BNP-Jamaat's old tactics] ........
 
Some of the previous governments has harbored and provided
training to 7-sister separatist [Assam] with the assistance of notorious
ISI [Inter service Intelligence] of Pakistan.
 
Our nation should always be alert, so that the notorious Inter
service Intelligence of Pakistan. can not use our soil or our 
resources in it's maneuvors against India.
 
Syed Aslam
 
 
On 2/10/09, Isha Khan <bd_mailer@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- On Tue, 2/10/09, Zoglul Husain <zoglul@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
From: Zoglul Husain <zoglul@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Indian journo dares to call Bangladesh a ''buffer state''
To: "bd_mailer@yahoo.com" <bd_mailer@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 10:34 AM

We condemn this journalist in the strongest of terms.
 
The journalist, as reported by the 'Amar desh', is Jayanta Ghosal of the 'Anandabazar Patrika', which is a mouthpiece for fascists and Hindu fundalists in India. The Hindu fundamentalists perpetrated thousands of riots and other brutal atrocities on the Dalits and the minority communities, including Muslims and Christians, in India. It is reported that the Hindu fundamentalists work hand in hand with the Mossad operatives and the Zionist fundamentalists of Israel. The Hindu fundamentalists reportedly took part in many terrorist activities, and were caught in the Malegaon blast case.
 
'Self-styled godman Dayanand Pandey, who was arrested in connection with the Malegaon blast case, has revealed during his narco-analysis test that' 'the Malegaon operation was masterminded by sadhvi Pragya Singh' Thakur. Also accused in the case is Lt Col Prasad Purohit, an officer in the Indian army.
 
Not only India is a hotbed of riots and terrorist operations, it is also a hotbed of insurgencies, with at least 12 separate insurgencies active in there at present, as reported. Whereas in Bangladesh, the terrorist activities were contained quite rapidly by the former BNP government and later partly by the 'CTG' government. It is believed, with good reasons, that these terrorist activities in Bangladesh were organised by RAW, Mossad and CIA, with the ulterior motive of subjugating Bangladesh. There is neither any terrorist activities nor any insurgencies in Bangladesh now.

The Amar Desh report is as follows:
http://www.amardeshbd.com/dailynews/sub_section.php?issueID=1059&sub_section_id=18&NewsID=211077&NewsType=bistarito
 
It is not at all surprising that Dr Dipu Moni, a puppet of India, remained quiet about it. Shame on her!!!
 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:36:09 -0800
From: bd_mailer@yahoo.com
Subject: Indian journo dares to call Bangladesh a ''buffer state''
To: zoglul@hotmail.co.uk ........

Indian journo dares to call Bangladesh a 'buffer state'
 
Local newsmen taken aback:Foreign Minister fails to protest Indian mediaman''s remark
Journalists were taken aback as Foreign Minister Dr Dipu Moni kept silent about an Indian journalist's sweeping remark that Pakistan is in proxy war using Bangladesh as ''buffer state'' and import terrorists from here to carry out terror strikes against India.

Bangladeshi journalists covering the joint press conference of Indian External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee and his Bangladeshi counterpart Dipu Moni thought that she would speak out to deflate the word ''buffer state''.

But, without refuting the invention of ''buffer state'', Dipu Moni stated her government stance--that Bangladesh will not allow its soil to be used by any element or terrorist outfit to conduct terrorist activities against India.

When a Bangladeshi journalist drew her attention while posing a question whether Bangladesh is being used as a ''buffer state'' by Pakistan to harbour terrorism, Dipu Moni--new to the tricks of the trade--didn''t make any reply about the remarks branding Bangladesh as ''buffer state''.

She rather restated what she stated about the government stance not to allow terrorists to use Bangladeshi land against any neighboring countries.

http://www.newstoday-bd.com/frontpage.asp?newsdate=#17436

 



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[ALOCHONA] Re: A half dead man is elected as President in Bangladesh:

Mr. M.M. Chowdhury Mithu, your filthy ridicule language about one of the most senior and honored politician in Bangladesh does not make him less successful or effective. However, your comment exhibits your inadequate education and inferiority complex coming out of total failure in life.

 

You are taunting about his age and ability Mr. Mithu, let me tell you one thing, since January 11 of 2007 when many young muscled men used their pants as potty 10 times a day, this old men challenged the military regime and kept Bangladesh Awami League united. When every one were batting that Bangladesh Awami League will disfranchise under severe attack from military, DGFI as well as insiders this old men whom you think near to death fought like a hero and won the battle.

 

There were many young and middle age man and women with BNP but that did not help them from braking into fraction locked into battle. Same thing would happen to Awami League if Mr. Zillur were not leading the party with zeal and brain.

 

One Eleven intruders like Gen. Moeen and all his collaborators with hundreds of tanks and machine gun botched in front of Mr. Zillur Rahman's passionate leadership. It is Mr. Zillur Rahman the President elect who has to be thanked for Bangladesh Awami Leagues landslide victory otherwise tormented disfranchised Awami League would be getting 30 seats what BNP got or the generals minus two formulas would be implemented without any impediment. .

 

If that half dead or near death men in your word can do miracle of defeating most powerful men and his gun toting military forces alone in a time when much younger politicians was dying before their factual death several times a day then honorable Mr. Zillur Rahman serving as constitutional President is sheer light job comparing his competency.

 

Mr. Mithu, I know it is not worthy to show respect to one who does not know how to respect others especially elderly but I am still hoping someday when your life will be little settled you will understand how filthy and inappropriate was your comments about a man of honor.

 

 

Regards

Shamim Chowdhury

Maryland, USA


--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "M. M. Chowdhury \(Mithu\)" <cgmpservices@...> wrote:
>
>  
> I am still not understanding with full concious how a party can help to elect a half dead or near death man to be President in Bangladesh with knowing so much problems (i.e. jobs, financial, business, stocks etc) in Bangladesh.
>  
> He maybe a superv human being, I admire him but he is a wrong guy at wrong time to be President in Bangladesh. If a half dead man can be President with influence of AL, anything is possible in Bangladesh. I am sorry to say, how many morans have been created last 36 years in Bangladesh?
>  
> People are so much power and position hungry in Bangladesh even who is near end of his life, do not hesitate to take the position to be self power hunger in Bangladesh. My only advice to people in Bangladesh that you won't see light at the end of the tunnel unless those power hungry mentality goes away or force to go away in near future.
>  
> AL maybe a wonderful political party in Bangladesh but their decision and works all goes against their menifesto and where they stand for.
>  
> Regards,
> M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu), USA
>
> --- On Tue, 1/6/09, M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu) cgmpservices@... wrote:
>
> From: M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu) cgmpservices@...
> Subject: Re: [Dahuk]: Nominated Zillur as President is a wrong choice
> To: cgmpservices@...
> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 8:54 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's understood and I believe that President should be with few activities/workload to help Bangladesh,  not to keep him as Statue.  There is no time to be statue in Bangladesh if you take Govt position.  You should work for the people and for the county.  President should have responsibilities and these responsibilities only be performed when he can move from one place to another place quickly without any help or without any Oxygen Tank.
>  
> This might sound harsh but this is the reality,  we don't have luxury to sit idle if you take Govt position.  I still hope and pray for AL good judgment and leadership if AL really wants to help Bangladesh for better future.  I hope that someone in AL leadership is listening.
>  
> I do appreciate AL's strong statement and taking things strongly against political hate crime which is still happening in Bangladesh.  I urge them to take concrete steps to stop the political hate cirme in Bangladesh.
>  
> I personally believe that AL will do better if they stop paying their grassroots and political personnel for their work and pay more attention for the people who voted them in power with mandate.  I hope that AL leadership is listening my suggestion to make Bangladesh a developed country.
>  
> God helps Bangladesh to have better future.
>  
> Regards,
> M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu), Virginia, USA
> Director, Political and Development in Bangladesh
> Change Bangladesh Organization, USA
> " An Organization for Better Bangladesh"
> www.changebangladesh.org
>
> --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Salahuddin Ayubi s_ayubi786@... wrote:
>
> From: Salahuddin Ayubi s_ayubi786@...
> Subject: Re: [Dahuk]: Nominated Zillur as President is a wrong choice
> To: cgmpservices@..., dahuk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 3:03 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Our president is thuto jaggannath. It does not really matter whom you make president.  Even a chimpanzee will serve the post roight.
>                              Ayubi
>
> --- On Sat, 1/3/09, M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu) cgmpservices@... wrote:
>
> From: M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu) cgmpservices@...
> Subject: [Dahuk]: Nominated Zillur as President is a wrong choice
> To: cgmpservices@...
> Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 10:41 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Choosing Zillur as President is a wrong direction
>
> Even though Hasina wants to pay her AL leaders for their help on her bad times but choosing Zillur is a wrong one. Bangladesh is a country where we need strong face to visit various countries to bring more help for Bangladesh where Hasina does not go.
>  
> He is a good guy no question about it but Bangladesh needs people with international experiences and strong person who can move quickly to one place to another place. He might need oxygen tank next few months who knows. I hope and pray for his health and he should take rest from politics.
>  
> Zillur is a very bad choice where we need some one to move Bangladesh forward.  I still hope that Hssina will rethink about his nomination choice for the Presient of Bangladesh which will be good for AL and Bangladesh as far as development is concern.
>  
> Regards,
> M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu), Virginia, USA
> www.amreteckpharma. com
>


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[ALOCHONA] RE: [Dahuk]: Re: [reform-bd] Tareq's greatest fault: Tareq must be brought back in BNP ASAP

Directly or indirectly, we worship some kind of dynasty-likes and thus cannot wash the "Imaginary Idol of Prince" Joy Wazed or Tareq Rahman off our minds. This is quite natural for who we are and what our usual thoughts have been for the past several generations (through the British and Pakistani slaveries). Politicians, political parties, and the supporters, in fact all of us in Bangladesh (for that matter in the Indian subcontinent) are vastly ignorant but vested groups possessing mostly selfish and malign motives.
 
We like to leak honey from the feet of the powerful and then hunt chickens by resting our guns on the shoulders of the vulnerable such as the all-powerful-madam/mothers (Hasina and Khaleda) and their heirs Joy and Tareq. But one thing is for sure that we are nowhere to be seen when the kings, queens and the princes are in danger. I agree with the commenter, "Tareq was using his father's oversized shoes without realizing that his father was a seasoned, trained, and smart soldier-freedom-fighter." Tareq had been foolishly friendly with the cunning foxes and fake BNP supporters. He should have known better. I hope he will learn from his mistakes and come back if he can survive the tests of time.  
 
By now Joy may already have been trying the shoes of the Bangla-OBAMA while Tareq is trying to fix his broken mind, discs and spine. Any pair of adult-shoes will be too tight for him at the moment. Tareq supporters need to have patience and be praying for his recovery; they should remember, Joy supporters will remain on the look.     
 
Nobody may like or agree on anything of what I have said; but that's O.K.
   




To: alochona@yahoogroups.com; reform-bd@yahoogroups.com
CC: chottala@yahoogroups.com; dahuk@yahoogroups.com; notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com; sonarbangladesh@yahoogroups.com; amra-bangladesi@yahoogroups.com; history_islam@yahoogroups.com; tritiomatra@yahoogroups.com
From: s_ayubi786@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 02:18:36 -0800
Subject: [Dahuk]: Re: [reform-bd] Tareq's greatest fault: Tareq must be brought back in BNP ASAP


Dear sir,
           It is tareq who got the spineless , gutless  and non political person in the key position of Preidency. He has been a contributing factor in the downfall of BNP. Again it was Tareq who got  Moin U as the Chief of staff of the Army  who turned out as "Astin ka saap" as they say in HIndi/urdu. Do you need any more example of his stupidity? He became too big for his boots and he had to be cut to size. Keep him out of BNP politics and the party will surely be better off without him.
                          Ayubi

--- On Wed, 2/11/09, mahathir of bd <wouldbemahathirofbd@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: mahathir of bd <wouldbemahathirofbd@yahoo.com>
Subject: [reform-bd] Tareq's greatest fault: Tareq must be brought back in BNP ASAP
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: chottala@yahoogroups.com, dahuk@yahoogroups.com, notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com, sonarbangladesh@yahoogroups.com, reform-bd@yahoogroups.com, "Amra Bangladesi" <amra-bangladesi@yahoogroups.com>, history_islam@yahoogroups.com, tritiomatra@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 7:34 AM

 
Mr.
Ayubi,
 
It is not tareq, rather absence of tareq is  one of the major cause of debacle of BNP.
 
 If tareq was there there would have co- ordinated election campaign of BNP, there would have  tit for tat for the propagand of AL.
 
 Seeing the success of  hawa Bhaban in election campaigning , candidate selection and coordination of election , forming of allience,  AL and pro-indian media  targeted tareq .
   Hence we have seen that indian propaganda machines even tag  tried tareq with daud ibrahim.
 
  the indian puppt , Moeen controlled CTG could not prove anything against tareq. So they tried to vanish him physically.
 
 But could not get any confession  from tareq as Jalil, Fazlul karim selim etc gave .
 
  corrupt persion can  not stand stead fast  against torture. if tareq were really corrupt, then he would surrender to indian puppet CTG( as corrupts always do,easily give in)  and would live country  to enjoy his shipponed money and easily would give statment of leaving politics like other corrupt politicians such as jalil, anawar hossain Monju  and many more.
 
 But he didn't want to live country.   Tareq's stead fastness make me beleive  ,he is not corrupt.
 
 Moreover, during his  organisational visit  to unions, once he asked one worker  in jessore, what he does ? The worker answered that he do politics.tareq said that a politician must have a legal source of income.
 
a corrupt peson can not say so .
 
tareq's greatest fault was  his attemt to bring all nationalist forces including jatio party of ershad in one platform and make  invincible so that he  can lead a qualition govt for long period like mahathir and made bangladesh better than  malaysia.
 


 
অতীতে বাংলাদেশের স্বার্থ বিসর্জন দিয়ে হলেও আলীগ ভারতের সাথে যেসব চুক্তি করেছে তার কোনটাই দাদারা বাস্তবায়ন করেনি । ভারতের সাথে আলীগের চুক্তি মানেই বাংলাদেশের স্বার্থ বিসর্জন নয় কি ?সর্বশক্তি দিয়ে প্রতিরোধ করা কি নাগরিক দায়িত্ব নয় ?


--- On Tue, 2/10/09, Faruque Alamgir <faruquealamgir@ gmail.com> wrote:
From: Faruque Alamgir <faruquealamgir@ gmail.com>
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Tareq must be brought back in BNP ASAP
To:
Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 5:11 PM

Ayubi Bhai
 
All leaders no matter whether it is tareq or Joy must clear their names from the tainted chapter of corruption/drunkrer ed,drug addicts and power abuser otherwise they should not come back.
 
Faruque Alamgir

2009/2/8 Salahuddin Ayubi <s_ayubi786@yahoo. com>
Tariq is at the cause of present BNP debacle. It will serve BNP interset best if they keep this spoilt brat of Zia out of BNP and the party grows up a truly democratic party. Tariq just do not have the material in him  to lead this problematic country. Leadership has to come up from the grass root level.  Party must have a mechanism to produce leaders for the party. Just like it is done in Britain and other developed countries.
                         Ayubi

--- On Mon, 2/9/09, mahathir of bd <wouldbemahathirofbd @yahoo.com> wrote:
From: mahathir of bd <wouldbemahathirofbd @yahoo.com>
Subject: [reform-bd] Tareq must be brought back in BNP ASAP
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com, chottala@yahoogroup s.com, dahuk@yahoogroups. com, khabor@yahoogroups. com, notun_bangladesh@ yahoogroups. com, sonarbangladesh@ yahoogroups. com, "Amra Bangladesi" <amra-bangladesi@ yahoogroups. com>, reform-bd@yahoogrou ps.com, tritiomatra@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 12:00 AM

মতবিনিময়ে যেসব দাবি বিএনপি'র তৃণমূল নেতাদের
কাফি কামাল: বর্তমান রাজনৈতিক পরিস্থিতিতে জামায়াতের সঙ্গে বিএনপি জোটবদ্ধ থাকলে দলের লাভের চেয়ে ক্ষতিই বেশি হবে। এখন রাজনৈতিক দুর্বলতাকে অস্বীকার করলে ভবিষ্যতে মুখোমুখি হতে হবে আরও কঠিন বিপর্যয়ের। এবার কোন পকেট কমিটি মেনে নেয়া হবে না। বিতর্কিত দুর্নীতিবাজদের বাদ দিয়ে কাউন্সিলের মাধ্যমে নির্বাচিত কমিটি গঠন করে সংগঠনকে গতিশীল করতে হবে। দলের সিনিয়র যুগ্ম মহাসচিব তারেক রহমান দলকে সাংগঠনিকভাবে গোছাতে যে উদ্যোগ নিয়েছিলেন তা অব্যাহত রাখতে হবে। তাকে আবারও দলের মূল নেতৃত্বে নিয়ে আনতে হবে। এ নির্বাচন কমিশনের অধীনে নির্বাচনে যাওয়া উচিত হয়নি। একটি সম্মানজনক সমাধানের মাধ্যমে বিএনপি'র সংসদে যাওয়া ও ইতিবাচক ভূমিকা রাখা উচিত। সংসদে যাওয়ার বিকল্প নেই। বিএনপি'র সাংগঠনিক পুনর্গঠনকে কেন্দ্র করে ৩রা ফেব্রুয়ারি থেকে দেশের বিভিন্ন জেলা থেকে দলের কেন্দ্রীয় কার্যালয়ে সাক্ষাৎকার ও মতবিনিময় সভায় যোগ দেয়া তৃণমূল নেতারা প্রতিদিনই কেন্দ্রীয় নেতাদের এসব দাবি জানাচ্ছেন। গতকাল বিভিন্ন বিভাগীয় সাংগঠনিক দায়িত্বপ্রাপ্ত কেন্দ্রীয় নেতা ও তৃণমূল নেতাদের সঙ্গে কথা বলে এ তথ্য জানা গেছে। গত ৩রা ফেব্রুয়ারি থেকে শুরু হওয়া সাংগঠনিক পুনর্গঠন প্রক্রিয়ায় গতকাল পর্যন্ত ১৪টি জেলার প্রায় দু'শতাধিক উপজেলা ও পৌর কমিটির তৃণমূল নেতারা সাক্ষাৎকার ও মতবিনিময় সভায় অংশ নিয়ে তাদের বক্তব্য তুলে ধরেছেন। প্রথম দিন মাগুরা, দ্বিতীয় দিন হবিগঞ্জ ও তৃতীয় দিন পটুয়াখালী, ব্রাহ্মণবাড়িয়া ও জামালপুর, চতুর্থ দিন সুনামগঞ্জ ও নড়াইল, পঞ্চম দিন নওগাঁ, ঝালকাঠি ও লক্ষ্মীপুর এবং গতকাল মেহেরপুর ও চুয়াডাঙ্গা এবং ফেনী জেলার নেতারা মতবিনিময় সভায় অংশ নেন। ছয়টি বিভাগীয় সাংগঠনিক টিমের নেতৃত্বে এ প্রক্রিয়া চলবে ২৮শে ফেব্রুয়ারি পর্যন্ত। তৃণমূল নেতারা বলেন, নির্বাচন ও সাংগঠনিক জোটবদ্ধতার বিষয়টিকে আলাদা বিবেচনা করে জামায়াতের ওপর নির্ভরশীলতা কমাতে হবে। নবম জাতীয় নির্বাচনে জামায়াত নির্ভরশীলতার কারণে ফল বিপর্যয় হয়েছে। অনেক এলাকায় বিএনপির মধ্যে অন্তর্কোন্দল সৃষ্টি করেছে জামায়াত। তৃণমূল নেতাদের মতে, একটি সম্মানজনক সমাধানের মাধ্যমে বিএনপি'র সংসদে যাওয়া ও ইতিবাচক ভূমিকা রাখা উচিত। সংসদে যাওয়ার বিকল্প নেই। তারা বলেন, এবার কোন পকেট কমিটি চাই না। পকেট কমিটি করা হলে তা মেনে নেয়া হবে না। বিতর্কিত ও দুর্নীতিবাজদের বাদ দিয়ে কাউন্সিলের মাধ্যমে নির্বাচিত কমিটি গঠন করে সংগঠনকে গতিশীল করতে হবে। ২৯শে ডিসেম্বরের জাতীয় নির্বাচনে ফল বিপর্যয়ের কারণ বিশ্লেষণ করে তারা বলেন, রাজনৈতিক দল দায়িত্বপালনে ব্যর্থ হওয়ায় ও রাজনৈতিক সিদ্ধান্তের নানা ত্রুটির ফাঁক-ফোকরে বিস্তার লাভ করেছে দেশী-বিদেশী ষড়যন্ত্র। রাজনৈতিক নেতাদের বিতর্কিত করার মাধ্যমে প্রভাবিত করা হয়েছে নির্বাচনকে। বরগুনা পৌর বিএনপি'র সাংগঠনিক সম্পাদক শফিকুল আলম টিপু বলেন, দেশী-বিদেশী ষড়যন্ত্রের অংশ হিসেবে প্রশাসনের পক্ষপাতিত্বের পাশাপাশি শীর্ষ নেতাদের ভুল সিদ্ধান্ত, বেইমানি, দলের একটি অংশের ষড়যন্ত্র, সংস্কারপন্থি প্রার্থী ও স্থানীয় নেতাকর্মীদের দূরত্বের কারণে এ বিপর্যয় হয়েছে। এছাড়া দলের কিছু সিনিয়র নেতা নির্বাচন বাণিজ্য করেছেন। সংস্কারপন্থি প্রার্থীদের প্রতিনিধি হিসেবে মেনে নিতে পারেনি তৃণমূল নেতাকর্মীরা। চুয়াডাঙ্গার আলমডাঙ্গা উপজেলা বিএনপি সম্পাদক মজিবুর রহমান বলেন, বেশির ভাগ প্রার্থীর সঙ্গে স্থানীয় কর্মী-সমর্থকদের যোগাযোগ বিচ্ছিন্নতা, প্রার্থী নির্বাচনে ভুল ও জোটের শরিক জামায়াতের নিষ্ক্রিয়তার কারণে নির্বাচনী প্রচার ছিল সীমাবদ্ধ। গত দুই বছরে নানা নির্যাতনের কারণে ভয়ে কর্মীরা সক্রিয় হতে পারেনি। দলের নির্বাচনী বিপর্যয়ে সাংগঠনিক ক্ষতির চেয়ে সামাজিক ক্ষতি হয়েছে অনেক বেশি। তৃণমূল নেতাদের মতে, এ নির্বাচন কমিশনের অধীনে নির্বাচনে যাওয়া উচিত হয়নি। উপজেলা নির্বাচনে কেন্দ্রীয় কমিটির ত্বরিত সিদ্ধান্ত ও জোরালো ভূমিকার প্রয়োজন ছিল। চুয়াডাঙ্গা সদর থানা বিএনপি সম্পাদক রেজাউল করিম মুকুট বলেন, দুই বছরে বিভিন্ন কারণে বিএনপি কয়েক ভাগে ভাগ হয়ে পড়ায় নির্বাচনে বিপর্যয় ঘটেছে। বিভক্ত দল নিয়ে যুদ্ধে জয়ী হওয়া যায় না। তৃণমূল নেতাদের মতে, দু'বছর পরপর কমিটি গঠনের কথা থাকলেও অনেক এলাকায় কমিটি গঠন হয়েছে ছয় থেকে আট বছর আগে। মেহেরপুর জেলা বিএনপির ভারপ্রাপ্ত সম্পাদক ইলিয়াস হোসেন বলেন, বিতর্কিত নেতাদের দলের ফ্রন্টলাইন থেকে আপাতত দূরে রেখে স্বচ্ছ ও ত্যাগী নেতৃত্বকে সামনে আনতে হবে। কমিটিতে ঘটাতে হবে নবীন ও প্রবীণের ভারসাম্যপূর্ণ সমন্বয়। সাংগঠনিক পরিধি বাড়াতে সংগঠনকে গণমুখী করে তুলতে হবে। ফেনীর কয়েকটি উপজেলা বিএনপি'র সিনিয়র নেতাদের দাবি, জেলায় দলের ভাইস চেয়ারম্যান মেজর (অব) সাঈদ এস্কান্দারের হস্তক্ষেপ বন্ধ করতে হবে। বরগুনা পৌর বিএনপি সম্পাদক আনোয়ার হোসেন বলেন, দলের সাবেক মন্ত্রী-এমপিদের বিরুদ্ধে দুর্নীতির অভিযোগ একেবারে মিথ্যা নয়। অনেক মন্ত্রী-এমপি নির্বাচনে ক্ষমতার যথেচ্ছ ব্যবহার করেছেন। তবে সত্যতার চেয়ে প্রচার হয়েছে অনেক বেশি। কোন কোন ক্ষেত্রে লঘু অপরাধে বিশেষ আদালতে গুরুতর শাস্তি দেয়া হয়েছে। চুয়াডাঙ্গার আলমডাঙ্গা পৌর বিএনপি সভাপতি খন্দকার হামিদুল ইসলাম আজম বলেন, তারেক রহমান দলকে সাংগঠনিকভাবে গোছাতে যে উদ্যোগ নিয়েছিলেন তা অব্যাহত রাখতে হবে। বাড়াতে হবে দলের কেন্দ্রীয় নেতাদের সাংগঠনিক সফর ও সম্মেলন কর্মসূচি। তারেক রহমানের সাংগঠনিক দক্ষতার কারণে তাকে টার্গেট করেই বিতর্কিত করা হয়েছে। তাকে আবারও দলের মূল নেতৃত্বে নিয়ে আসতে হবে। গত নির্বাচনে তৃণমূল নেতাদের মধ্যে তীব্রভাবে তার অভাব অনুভূত হয়েছে। তিনি যে সাংগঠনিকভাবে দলকে গোছাতে শুরু করেছিলেন সেভাবে হলে এতবড় ভরাডুবি হতো না। এদিকে গতকাল মতবিনিময় সভা চলাকালে তৃণমূল নেতারা একে অন্যের সামনে স্বাভাবিকভাবে কথা বলতে অস্বস্তিবোধ করছিলেন। বরগুনা সদর বিএনপি'র সাংগঠনিক সম্পাদক আবদুল হক হাওলাদার বলেন, অতীতের ধারাবাহিকতায় চাপিয়ে দেয়া কমিটি মেনে নেবে না তৃণমূল নেতাকর্মীরা। ১১ই জানুয়ারির পর থেকে বিভিন্ন নির্যাতন নিপীড়নের ফলে তারা প্রতিপক্ষ রাজনৈতিক দলের পাশাপাশি দলীয় কেন্দ্রীয় নেতাদের ওপরও ক্ষুব্ধ। ফেনীর দাগনভূঞা উপজেলা বিএনপি'র সভাপতি দেলোয়ার হোসেন ও সাধারণ সম্পাদক আবদুল মতিন চৌধুরী বলেন, বর্তমান পরিস্থিতিকে সূুক্ষ্মভাবে বিচার বিশ্লেষণ করে দলের তৃণমূল থেকে কেন্দ্র পর্যায়ের নেতৃত্ব ঢেলে সাজাতে হবে। জেলা পর্যায়ে অনেক ত্যাগী ও প্রজ্ঞাবান নেতা আছেন যারা দলের কেন্দ্রীয় নেতৃত্বে আসার যোগ্যতা রাখেন। এবার দলের চেয়ারপারসনকে নেতৃত্ব নির্বাচনে কঠিন মানসিকতার পরিচয় দিয়ে তাদের সামনে নিয়ে আসতে হবে। ভাঙতে হবে বিভিন্ন জেলা কেন্দ্রীয় কোটারি চক্র।
 


অতীতে বাংলাদেশের স্বার্থ বিসর্জন দিয়ে হলেও আলীগ ভারতের সাথে যেসব চুক্তি করেছে তার কোনটাই দাদারা বাস্তবায়ন করেনি । ভারতের সাথে আলীগের চুক্তি মানেই বাংলাদেশের স্বার্থ বিসর্জন নয় কি ?সর্বশক্তি দিয়ে প্রতিরোধ করা কি নাগরিক দায়িত্ব নয় ?








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[ALOCHONA] Re: A half dead man is elected as President in Bangladesh:

Dear Alochok Mithu

In Bangladesh we always settle for less. And, as a President, Zillur
Rahman is less. It's not his fault he ended up being President of
Bangladesh. But he is better than Ershad at least. Thats the kind of
choices we create for ourselves.

Here goes:

We Bangladeshis have no concept of unity. We survive longest
together when the facts are simply indisputable. We can dispute
everything - so what kind of things can't we dispute?

We can't dispute Hasina is Mujib's daughter.
So she must lead Awami League. Simple.
Otherwise disputes will tear Awami League apart.

We can't dispute Khaleda is Zia's wife.
So she must lead BNP. Simple.
Otherwise disputes will tear BNP apart.

We can't dispute Joy is Hasina's son.
So he must return to lead Awami League. Simple.
Otherwise disputes will tear Awami League apart.

We can't dispute Tareq is Khaleda's son.
So he must return to lead BNP. Simple.
Otherwise disputes will tear BNP apart.

We can't dispute Zillur's wife was murdered.
So he must be lead Awami League. Simple.
Otherwise disputes will tear Awami League apart.

The truth is these parties are not talented, mature parties.
They can't handle disputes and they postpone hard decisions.

We got Zillur Rahman. Imagine if we got any of the others on
the AL Central Committee!!!!! Poor Zillur Rahman. He can barely keep
his health together but he has to keep his party together! Some
party! Poor guy. I feel like sending him some flowers!

Lets count our blessings in the case of Zillur Rahman - however
small the count may be.

Bangladesh. If you want to be a real leader you have to either be
murdered or close to a murdered leader.

There's no dispute about death.

Ezajur Rahman
Kuwait

--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "M. M. Chowdhury \(Mithu\)"
<cgmpservices@...> wrote:
>
>  
> I am still not understanding with full concious how a party can
help to elect a half dead or near death man to be President in
Bangladesh with knowing so much problems (i.e. jobs, financial,
business, stocks etc) in Bangladesh.
>  
> He maybe a superv human being, I admire him but he is a wrong guy
at wrong time to be President in Bangladesh. If a half dead man can
be President with influence of AL, anything is possible in
Bangladesh. I am sorry to say, how many morans have been created
last 36 years in Bangladesh?
>  
> People are so much power and position hungry in Bangladesh even
who is near end of his life, do not hesitate to take the position to
be self power hunger in Bangladesh. My only advice to people in
Bangladesh that you won't see light at the end of the tunnel unless
those power hungry mentality goes away or force to go away in near
future.
>  
> AL maybe a wonderful political party in Bangladesh but their
decision and works all goes against their menifesto and where they
stand for.
>  
> Regards,
> M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu), USA
>
> --- On Tue, 1/6/09, M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu) <cgmpservices@...>
wrote:
>
> From: M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu) <cgmpservices@...>
> Subject: Re: [Dahuk]: Nominated Zillur as President is a wrong
choice
> To: cgmpservices@...
> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 8:54 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's understood and I believe that President should be with few
activities/workload to help Bangladesh,  not to keep him as Statue. 
There is no time to be statue in Bangladesh if you take Govt
position.  You should work for the people and for the county. 
President should have responsibilities and these responsibilities
only be performed when he can move from one place to another place
quickly without any help or without any Oxygen Tank.
>  
> This might sound harsh but this is the reality,  we don't have
luxury to sit idle if you take Govt position.  I still hope and pray
for AL good judgment and leadership if AL really wants to help
Bangladesh for better future.  I hope that someone in AL leadership
is listening.
>  
> I do appreciate AL's strong statement and taking things strongly
against political hate crime which is still happening in
Bangladesh.  I urge them to take concrete steps to stop the
political hate cirme in Bangladesh.
>  
> I personally believe that AL will do better if they stop paying
their grassroots and political personnel for their work and pay more
attention for the people who voted them in power with mandate.  I
hope that AL leadership is listening my suggestion to make
Bangladesh a developed country.
>  
> God helps Bangladesh to have better future.
>  
> Regards,
> M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu), Virginia, USA
> Director, Political and Development in Bangladesh
> Change Bangladesh Organization, USA
> " An Organization for Better Bangladesh"
> www.changebangladesh.org
>
> --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Salahuddin Ayubi <s_ayubi786@...> wrote:
>
> From: Salahuddin Ayubi <s_ayubi786@...>
> Subject: Re: [Dahuk]: Nominated Zillur as President is a wrong
choice
> To: cgmpservices@..., dahuk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 3:03 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Our president is thuto jaggannath. It does not really matter whom
you make president.  Even a chimpanzee will serve the post roight.
>                              Ayubi
>
> --- On Sat, 1/3/09, M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu) <cgmpservices@...>
wrote:
>
> From: M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu) <cgmpservices@...>
> Subject: [Dahuk]: Nominated Zillur as President is a wrong choice
> To: cgmpservices@...
> Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 10:41 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Choosing Zillur as President is a wrong direction
>
> Even though Hasina wants to pay her AL leaders for their help on
her bad times but choosing Zillur is a wrong one. Bangladesh is a
country where we need strong face to visit various countries to
bring more help for Bangladesh where Hasina does not go.
>  
> He is a good guy no question about it but Bangladesh needs people
with international experiences and strong person who can move
quickly to one place to another place. He might need oxygen tank
next few months who knows. I hope and pray for his health and he
should take rest from politics.
>  
> Zillur is a very bad choice where we need some one to
move Bangladesh forward.  I still hope that Hssina will rethink
about his nomination choice for the Presient of Bangladesh which
will be good for AL and Bangladesh as far as development is concern.
>  
> Regards,
> M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu), Virginia, USA
> www.amreteckpharma. com
>


------------------------------------

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Re: [ALOCHONA] Sajeeb Wazed Joy has a 96th percentile score in GMAT

you are right GMAT is for business school. but whoever took GRE, should do pretty good in GMAT also.
I do not think the candidate can notify other people. but ETS cannot tell anyone about it, unless candidate himself approves.

--- On Tue, 2/10/09, Mohammad Akhtaruzzaman (Zaman) <drz321@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Mohammad Akhtaruzzaman (Zaman) <drz321@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Sajeeb Wazed Joy has a 96th percentile score in GMAT
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 11:20 PM

 
I think GMAT is for business school.
 
But Joy is not in business school.
If I am not wrong, he went Kennedy School of Government.
 
Am I missing something?
Or may be, politics also require a certain degree of business acumen .. 
 
Just plain curiosity - is not the score of a candidate is confidential?
 
MZ


 
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:40 AM, jahid russel <jahidrussel@ yahoo.com> wrote:
I am sure many grad student or engineers/business professionals can score much better in GMAT than Dr Amrtya Sen. are they all better than him in terms of wisdom. LOL
"Aste kon, ghoray hasbo"

--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Robin Khundkar <rkhundkar@earthlink .net> wrote:
From: Robin Khundkar <rkhundkar@earthlink .net>

Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Sajeeb Wazed Joy has a 96th percentile score in GMAT
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:48 AM

I agree with Cyrus. Getting a high GMAT is indeed an high achievement and may help someone to get ahead in graduate school but it does not indicate wisdom. That requires a lot of effort, willingness to listen and to do the right thing.
Congratulations to Joy on this point and I hope he has much success in his life.
Robin


-----Original Message-----
From: Cyrus
Sent: Feb 8, 2009 7:55 PM
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Sajeeb Wazed Joy has a 96th percentile score in GMAT

While I agree that Joy's score is impressive in his GMAT, and I congratulate him for it, I strongly disagree that standardized tests are any indicator of someone's brilliance. Taking GMAT, GRE or ACT like tests are simply aptitude tests; a test of logical and analytical skills. A good GMAT or GRE score doesn't really mean anything beyond the admission phase. The only skills you pick up are how to cram a lot of information in a very short period, in an organized manner, and analyze it quickly.
 
Just my two cents.
 
Cyrus


From: Dr. M. Mohsin Ali <drmohsinali@ yahoo.com>
To: futureofbangladesh@ yahoogroups. com; alochona@yahoogroup s.com

Sent: Friday, February 6, 2009 11:29:20 PM
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Sajeeb Wazed Joy has a 96th percentile score in GMAT



--- On Fri, 2/6/09, Dr. M. Mohsin Ali <drmohsinali@ yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Dr. M. Mohsin Ali <drmohsinali@ yahoo.com>
Subject: Sajeeb Wazed Joy has a 96th percentile score in GMAT
To: khabor@yahoogroups. com
Cc: furtureofbangladesh @yahoogroups. com, sonarbangladesh@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 11:18 PM



--- On Fri, 2/6/09, Dr. M. Mohsin Ali <drmohsinali@ yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Dr. M. Mohsin Ali <drmohsinali@ yahoo.com>
Subject: Sajib Wazed Joy has a 96th percentile score in GMAT
To: smahmood20@yahoo. com
Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 10:42 PM

Shahjahan Bhai,
 
Salaams.
 
I thank you for your valuable information about Joy's brilliancy and his scores at GMAT and his Grade Average at Harvard. Your information has solidified my arguments that Joy is a brilliant student and his Harvard degree is a prestigious which he didn't buy but he earned through his hard work of study.
 
Mr. Enayetullah is basically a Jamat-oriented person. He has been writing against Awami League from the past 10 years. He has been praising all the misdeeds of the Jamat-BNP Jote Goverments from 2001 to 2006.
 
I challenged him to disclose his identity by giving his and his family's information as I have given mine so that people can know what the person is doing in his actual life. But Mr. Enayet Ullah has failed to come out with his real identity.
 
These Razakar paid agents are always after the Awami League leaders, especially Awami League Leader Sheikh Hanisa and her son Sajeed Wazed Joy. They would defame Joy in any way with a bunch of lies and misinformation.
 
I hope, after reading your information they will stop spreading lies about Joy.
 
Thank you.
 
Mohsin Ali.
 


--- On Fri, 2/6/09, Shah Mahmood <smahmood20@yahoo. com> wrote:
From: Shah Mahmood <smahmood20@yahoo. com>
Subject: Sajib Wazed Joy has a 96th percentile score in GMAT
To: BCCDIcommunity_ news@yahoogroups .com, baainews@yahoogroup s.com, khabor@yahoogroups. com, drmohsinali@ yahoo.com, Diagnose@yahoogroup s.com
Cc: dcvoice111@yahoo. com, enayet_2000@ yahoo.com, mansurk2003@ yahoo.com, khandaker.a. mansur@census. gov, 2006sattar@gmail. com, abdus.sattaar@ gmail.com, akhter@erols. com, malamgir1@aol. com
Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 10:20 PM


Dear Mr. Enayetulla, Dr. Mohsin Ali, Mr. Asgar and others:

I have been following the discussion in this thread for the last several
weeks. I have observed that most of the discussants in the thread have made
their remarks without knowing the pertinent information about the candidate
that they are talking about.  I have been particularly surprised when
someone was hinting that Joy is anything but brilliant. A sensible person
should not pass such a sweeping remark without knowing the complete story. 

How do you measure the brilliancy of a person? In this country, the
brilliancy of a student, as far as their ability to get into a good school
is concerned, is measured by the scores that the students obtain in various
tests such as SAT, TOEFL, GRE, GMAT etc. We have seen that good schools run
after the good scorers in these tests and entice these students to their
campus - the schools even compete to get them by giving more incentives than
other offers.  I have seen that a good scorer not only gets admission but
also gets scholarships and other facilities from the school. I was surprised
to see a comment in one of these postings that some one's son can get a Harvard
degree if the perosn can spend $74,000  - there was no mention of other
requirements for the admission. Mr. Enayetullah, are you making this comment
out of personal vendetta against AL and/or Joy? Do you know how many people
in this country can spend that much money for a Harvard degree? Why then
there are only 55 students in the class? Aren't you downgrading an
institution like Harvard University by making such an irresponsible and
unfounded statement.

Sajib's GMAT score was 720 out of 800, which was a 96th percentile score
that year and his Harvard GPA was 3.63. The average GMAT score two years ago
to get into Harvard and Wharton Business Schools, the top two in the world,
was about 690. So he definitely excelled the average score requirements for
getting into the class and with this score, I am sure, he could get into
many other schools at Harvard. I am forwarding this information to let you
know that, he did not get into Harvard University because of his monetary
strength only (frankly speaking, I don't know how much he paid there), he
had other requisite qualifications - he could not have got there using his
bank balance alone.

Finally, if the scores in various tests are any measure of brilliancy at
all, then what a 96th percentile score in GMAT would mean in terms of
brilliancy? I let you judge it.

As far as the GPA is concerned, I would say that 3.63 is an impressive score
whether it is a mid-career degree or not.

Shahjahan Mahmood










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RE: [ALOCHONA] False statement of Education Minister

you still do not get it. do you?
farakka effects padma and soutghwest. sylhet or rangpur is not effected by farakka. greater sylhet gets flooded by meghna, surma, kushiara. jamuna effects jamalpur, tangail. and so on. fyi, jamuna carries more than 50% of river water of bangladesh.
please look at the bangladesh map before you start talking about it.

--- On Tue, 2/10/09, Mohammad Hossain <MHossain@YorkTech.com> wrote:
From: Mohammad Hossain <MHossain@YorkTech.com>
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] False statement of Education Minister
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 5:24 PM

Why Farkka is the culprit?

 

Well, when you have massive rivers with minimum or no water flow during dry seasons for 25-30 years they would gradually fill up and the river bottom is much higher now than it used to be and in some areas the river has ceased to exist.  You should know that rivers not only carry water it also reserves massive amount of water.  India has never provided Bangladesh with its fair share of water according to the international law or treaty (if one exists there!).  And therefore, all rivers downstream from India are flooding these days more than ever.

 

From: alochona@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:alochona@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jahid russel
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 12:44 PM
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] False statement of Education Minister

 

Based on official record (maintained in AL, BNP, JP period) he is right. We defintely have lot of issues with India.

 

I would rather ask you how Farakka is a reason when Sylhet, Pabna, Dinajpur  or Mymensingh is flooded?

--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Enam Haque <enam28@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Enam Haque <enam28@yahoo. com>
Subject: [ALOCHONA] False statement of Education Minister
To: khabor@yahoogroups. com, diagnose@yahoogroup s.com, alochona@yahoogroup s.com, dahuk@yahoogroups. com, bangla_ict@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 10:55 PM

In a meeting with visiting Indian Foreign Minister, our education minister said the following:

"India helped us during our independce struggle. (A true statement). India continued to help us after independence. ( A false statement)." - The daily Ittefaq. Feb 10, 2009

What the education minister could have told the Indian foreign minister "India helped us during our independce struggle. But it continued to screw us after the independence. (A true statement)". To support his statement, he could bring the following issues ( I am surprised none of our ministers including the PM brought the following issues):

1. Farakkah (No. 1 reason for flood in Bangladesh).

2. Push in the poor Indians to Bangladesh.

3. Improper tarrifs on Bangladeshi products.

4. BSF killings.

 

 




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