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Monday, March 16, 2009

[ALOCHONA] Re: Things to Ponder!

When a lot of people were forced to retire and transferred to other
places during BNP-Jamaat's regime, what did the BNP-Jamaati pandas call
it? May we know?

--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Isha Khan <bd_mailer@...> wrote:
>
> Things to Ponder!
>
> Nayan Khan
>
> Bangladesh faces lots of damages each day!
>
> Universities' unrest, BDR massacre, two top Army bosses killed by
helicopter crash, few Generals were forced to retire, and few more
transferred to other places (Awami pandas may call it as regular norm in
Govt. or so!), and largest Mall Bashundhara destroyed!
>
> So we can call all of them happened and will happen due to try
warcriminials???!!!
> When Bangladesh will come out from these nonsence gut? Col. Faruk Khan
knows everything even before any investigation team submits their own
report! He might have link with JMB or RAW so do Nanok who told crores
of money poured to thugs for implementing BDR carnage
>
> Shaikh Hasina was awarded 'daughter of peace' by two 'sons of peace'
Nanok and Azam after BDR carnage, just like Bush was awarded after
attacking Iraq and Afganistan!
>
http://www.dailynayadiganta.com/2009/03/13/fullnews.asp?News_ID=133700&s\
ec=1
>
> BCL killed a Shibir leader in RU:
> http://bdnews24.com/bangla/details.php?cid=10&id=45696&hb=1
>
> Education minister is in odd position in Sylhet by two faction of BCL:
> http://bdnews24.com/bangla/details.php?cid=3&id=45681
>
> Fire in Bashundhara:
>
http://www.rtnn.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2275:20\
09-03-13-11-14-04&catid=42:2008-09-29-04-26-36
>
> Taleban's involvement found in BDR Mutiny-Law Minister:
>
http://www.rtnn.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2347:20\
09-03-16-14-46-57&catid=40:2008-09-29-04-25-47
>

------------------------------------

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[ALOCHONA] From an armchair general

From an armchair general

 

Re: To all the armchair generals (Daily Star 12/9/09)

 

Yes we are very serious about criticizing the government's handling of the incident on 25th February 2009. The government may have been right to stop a frontal attack by the Army. But we need not guess the partisanship of those who are bold enough to give the government's handling of the crisis a rating of A. In the interest of a balanced debate I hope this will be published. It is not only armchair generals who think that an intrusion of some sort was required. You might ask some actual generals too. You might ask many, many other citizens who are not bound to any political party.

 

At the outset, let me say that I am an armchair general in the proud tradition of all those who, based on evidence and precedent, still care enough to ask unofficial questions and to challenge official answers. For people like me the Army, intelligence agencies, broadcast media and political opposition all get a score of F. But this is about challenging those who give the government's handling a score of A.

 

To start, those who give the government a score of A are also armchair generals for having reached such a conclusion well before the official investigations have concluded! 

 

The civilian population outside the camp was not trapped. That population was actually evacuated within a few hours on day two. It could have been evacuated within a few hours on day one. These civilians were outside the perimeter. They were not trapped.

 

Future military textbooks will not recommend and document how not to intrude in the case of the incident in Bangladesh on 25th February 2009. They will recommend and document how to intrude in such an incident. The Russians will not be flying into Bangladesh to learn about the government's brilliant handling of the situation.

 

The incident in Moscow on October 23, 2002 is a blind comparison. The Chechens were known to be on a suicide mission with many wearing bombs. The Russian government did its best to obtain the best possible containment, negotiation and response. Now look at our government. Can we say the same about a heinous crime defined by such successful entry, execution and exit?

 

Our soldiers, hiding and dying, looked at that gate. Through that gate lay their families, their lives, their comrades and their true country. But at that same gate our soldiers saw their killers being supported by chanting crowds and giving interviews on live television.

 

The murderers were escorted directly into the Prime Minister's presence! She thought she was negotiating about food and pay while murder and rape had already been committed and was probably still going on back in the camp! The Prime Minister did not realize that the men she was speaking with were murderers playing for time! The Prime Minister sent totally unqualified and inexperienced people to negotiate, fact find and rescue. The government allowed the broadcast media to take position at the main gate, giving live interviews to hostage takers! The government allowed curious civilians to crowd at the walls and other civilians to chant in support of the hostage takers! The government sent an elderly and completely inexperienced lady into the camp under a white flag! The government allowed the entire camp to stay unlit throughout the whole night while teenagers were raped and shallow graves were dug! The government allowed at least several hundreds of the mutineers and murderers to effortlessly flee! The government forgot to surround the camp! The government ordered the evacuation of surrounding areas 24 hours too late! The government threatened stern action 24 hours too late! The government brought in the tanks – leading to immediate surrender – 24 hours too late!

 

The government and military high command was completely fooled by the perpetrators.

 

The Russians have their dead in spite of their best efforts. We have no such consolation. For these cannot be anyone's best efforts. The Army knows this and that is why it is struggling to accept what happened. Politicians on the other hand have no problem ignoring their own failures.

 

This was a military compound, inhabited almost entirely by military personnel and some of their families. It was under military attack from within under the guise of a military rebellion. References to various police manuals and police cases around the world are irrelevant. It is a military problem. Ask the militaries – and the police – in those countries. It's not as if we were expecting anything at all from our police on 25th February 2009! It's not as if the police had a say in anything on that day!

    

We have no precedent of any government ever having satisfactorily concluded an investigation into a violent incident of national importance. There is no reason to now suddenly expect a successful investigation within two weeks of the incident! But still we wait because we hope for the best. In the meantime armchair generals everywhere are making sure that the government realizes that this time it's not so easy to fool the people. Surely that is our democratic right!  

 

Just look at the blunders listed above. The score F is distributed effortlessly amongst all participants. To single out the Prime Minister for an A is beyond reason. But then that's what partisan intellectuals do when they settle abroad – they apply high standards for their adopted home country and low standards when it comes to Bangladesh. It is tragic.

 

Many do not believe in the decision to do nothing. There are many who believe with every blood vessel in their heart that we should have done something. And those who think that for even the best armies in the world something means only a full frontal attack assault must surely know nothing about military affairs. No snipers, no commandos, no disguised infiltrators, no surveillance, no lights, no intelligence, no special forces, no night cameras, nothing.

 

Some think it is great that a full frontal assault on day was stopped. But the government threatened a full frontal assault on day two! If the BDR troops did not surrender on day two she would have honoured her threat by ordering a full frontal assault herself! To this day the government has not said that other military options were available other than a full frontal assault!

 

And in the end, after all that, a broadcast threat on day two coupled with tanks at the gates caused a mass surrender of those who had not earlier walked home freely in the night. If only that threat was made, and those tanks were moved, 24 hours earlier. I wonder if the Prime Minister had a cup of tea and biscuits with the fourteen murderers on day one at her offices. It would be a fitting highlight of the proceedings.

 

There is no comfort in saying that our officers were killed in the morning. For the government did not know it at the time. It is simply a probability that is being used for political expedience. It is unlikely that every single death occurred before 11am and such criminals do not sleep during a night of peace and darkness. We wait for the government to declare that the rapes stopped at 11am.

 

It's so easy to separate the Prime Minister from the Army. Except that she is in charge of the portfolio of the Armed Forces. In other countries the defence minister would surely resign. There is no comfort in saying the Government is only two months old. Those who use such an excuse for such blunders do so in Bangladesh only. They would never discuss such blunders abroad for fear of a response drenched in contempt. And what is to be said about the argument that any assault would have allowed the ringleaders to escape? They effortlessly walked away from the scene anyway! Just getting the charter does not change who has the charter. When there is no playbook a playbook is crafted as the situation requires and evolves. What exactly was the government's successful game plan here?

 

Those who dismiss the incident of 25th February 2009 by saying two weeks later that "the past is the past" have no concept of the significance of the incident and they are oblivious of the palpable tension in Dhaka city today and pay lip service to the grief of our military families.

 

The notion that the world's best armed forces and defence ministers would have responded either by doing nothing or by ordering a hot headed assault, just like the Bangladesh Army, is political trickery. It is an offence to all men who train hard to risk their lives for their comrades and their country. Don't let armchair generals explain this to you. Let actual generals explain this to you. Don't accept the explanations of politicians and commentators who have no experience whatsoever about such matters and who are concerned only with saving their party. 

 

The Prime Minister's responsiveness to the officers can actually be measured by her backing down to demands from the Army. And it is absurd for partisan commentators to comment on the emotions of our wounded officers when politicians base their entire platforms and campaigns on manipulating emotions at such great cost to our country.

 

Finally, partisan commentators who want us to accept the past and move forward should remember that many, many readers are not woefully biased. And we know that politics and politicians in our dear Bangladesh are based almost entirely in our past with little to do with the future. So please don't ask us to look to the future after two weeks when you are still living in the past after forty years.

 

There can be no high grades awarded when the incident has been such a totally unmitigated disaster. The Prime Minister, the government, the Army, the BDR, the intelligence agencies and the media all score an F. And those who try to twist failure into success get a U.

 

Only our fallen soldiers and their families get an A for having had to pay such a catastrophic price for the failures of their military and political masters. 

 

The 25th of February 2009 saw nothing less than an assault upon our sovereignty committed by internal and external enemies. We wait for the government to name and punish the guilty, be they soldiers, politicians or others. We wait for the government to condemn a named foreign country at the United Nations.

 

Maybe this time we will stand by our flag and stand our ground. Maybe this time we won't settle for less.

 

God rest our fallen heroes. We will forever mourn on the 25th of February 2009.

 

Ezajur Rahman

Kuwait

 

 

 

 


--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, abdul momen <abdul_momen@...> wrote:
 
>
>
> Political Gossips and speculation- BDR Carnage
 
> Muhit Rahman
>
>
>
> Recently, in discussions around the country and in the blogosphere, I see and hear extensive criticism and 2nd guessing of how the sad and despicable affairs of the BDR incident were handled. A principal refrain seems to be that the army should have been rushed in to shoot their way to a glorious rescue. Are we serious?
>
> All you armchair generals, can you cite ONE instance of a situation in known history where an armed force of thousands had taken over a barricaded area with a large trapped civilian population in a dense urban setting and another armed force attacked immediately (within two to three hours) and successfully rescued the hostages and/or disarmed the `rebels'? Let me make it easier, can you cite an example of armed hostage taking of even a few (ten to twenty) by a smaller, heavily armed force (sub-machine guns, mortars and grenades) in a dense urban setting where an assault team has immediately and successfully stormed the premises? By successful storming, I mean with no or minimal unintended deaths or collateral damage.
>
> Here are some examples: On October 23, 2002, approximately 30-40 heavily armed Chechens took about 800-900 people hostage in a Moscow theater. The highly trained and fully equipped Russian security apparatus negotiated and waited four days before pumping in poison gas and storming the theater and killing/executing a reported 39 of the Chechens. Even then somewhere between 129 and 200 civilians died – all but one as a result of the "rescue" operation. A special forces operative was reported as saying that had they not used the poison gas, there could have been more than 150 casualties amongst the rescuers. There are many other examples: On September 1, 2004 in Beslan, North Ossetia-Alania, a group of armed Chechens took over a school, holding over 1,000 hostages. Three days later, Russian security forces stormed the building with tanks and heavy weapons. The resulting carnage caused almost 350 hostage deaths and hundreds more wounded or
> missing. On February 28, 1993, agents from United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) attempted to execute a search warrant at the Branch Davidian ranch in Waco, Texas. The resulting siege situation lasted 51 days. When FBI agents ultimately moved in, the "rescue" caused 76 deaths. In 1972, the attempt by German police to rescue Israeli athletes taken hostage by the terrorist group, Black September, resulted in the death of 11 hostages (source: Various Wikipedia articles).
>
> The moral is not that you do not ever attack terrorists and hostage takers but that you do it with a cool head, after all other means of recourse have failed and that it almost always results in massive casualties. According to a "hostage negotiation study guide" developed with the help of the International Association of Chiefs of Police and the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, the first rule is "ICER" isolate, contain, evaluate and report. Note that "assault" is not on the menu for first responders! For over thirty years, the New York City Police Department has used a process concerning terrorist incidents that they characterize as "time, talk, and tear gas."
>
> The reality is that the world's most highly trained forces could not have secured Peelkhana by force without massive loss of innocent lives ranging from innocent BDR personnel and their families who may have been coerced or were swept up in the mutiny, to the very hostages that they were going to save. Even the army officers who remained alive (and if you assume there had been about 150 officers present and about 60 are dead or missing, that implies 90 of them were in there, alive) were wearing BDR uniforms (as is customary) and they had taken off their rank markings — they too would very possibly have been killed in a rushed, ill-conceived attack. The ringleaders and outside agents, if they had done their planning (as seems likely) could very well have escaped and in the middle of the hundreds, if not thousands of victims, truth would have been the first casualty. As it is, few seem to want to wait for the truth to emerge before pointing at their
> favorite scapegoats. No one can ever say for certain what could have happened from the path not taken. But there is plenty of evidence that hot-headed assaults are minimally effective and cause maximum anguish.
>
> There is NO gamebook, except perhaps in the lands of the likes of Idi Amin and such despots, where massive armed conflict is precipitated in a dense urban civilian zone in the midst of the fog of lack of information and disinformation. The other reality is that our security forces have very little preparation for this type of event (note I do not say "army" I say security forces). How do you use anti-aircraft guns to flush out "rebels" hiding amidst "innocents" in residential quarters and office buildings? What happened when the lights were out? In classic hostage rescue, it is usually the rescuers who try and turn the power off so that they can have the advantage of night vision equipment over the hostage takers who are usually less prepared. The power being off was a golden opportunity for elite, trained units (again I don't say army - but "trained units") to go in and assess the situation and come back with reports and/or a plan of
> action. The reality is that while we have many brave men, we have no such well equipped, elite, trained units. So all we seem to be doing is crying about the darkness, instead of wondering why we didn't take advantage of a situation when advantage normally reverts to those who have better plans, equipment and capabilities. Whoever had the responsibility of securing the perimeter (if there was such a person or entity), did not even seem to know exactly how the perimeter worked. Reportedly, they were guarding the principal gates and left much of the perimeter wall around Gate 5, including, perhaps Gate 5, unsecured. Did someone order that Gate 5 and the surrounds be left unguarded – or did they just forget about it? Whose job was it? It is not the prime minister or even the home minister's job to secure an area. The buck may stop there but they only recently got that charter. The responsibility for controlling the security forces and maintaining
> discipline and command and of staying informed about their morale lies with the command structure and this was a massive command failure. It was likely also a cynical and brutal attempt by as yet unknown parties to start a civil war and precipitate the fall of the government.
>
> I commend the civilian government as well as the military high command for handling a terrible situation about as well as they could have – perhaps even, brilliantly!
> Moreover, the prime minister showed excellent responsiveness in going in front of the officers and I do not blame the officers for being emotional - they are Bengalis!
> All in all, I give the civilian government an "A" for their handling of the crisis and the army an "A" for its restraint. The intelligence agencies, however, all of them - police, RAB, DGFI, etc. all get an "F". And as for those trying to make hay out of this sad moment by undue finger pointing and 2nd guessing (certain political leaders come to mind), I give an "U" for unsatisfactory conduct.
>
> So, enough already!
> Let the investigations proceed and let the nation try to heal its wounds!
> Let the investigations be thorough, just and transparent.
> Let the institutions that govern and guard the country show their true strength by being fair and open and by being accountable to the people they serve.
>
> Justice must be sure – not just sure as in inevitable, but also sure as in certain.
> The past is the past and will always color our thoughts and actions - but think of the future and what ought to be done NOW - not what could have been done. If you have to indulge in "I wish they had done …" fantasy, then consider "I wish they had a better feel for the pulse of the BDR jawans … so that matters could have been headed off long before things came to a head".
>
> But it would be better if instead, you pray for the souls of the departed and for the safety and security of Bangladesh and its people and thank God that a larger calamity was avoided.
>
> ...........................................................................................................
>
>
>
>
>
> To: alochona@yahoogroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com; dahuk@yahoogroups.com; notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com; sonarbangladesh@yahoogroups.com; reform-bd@yahoogroups.com; amra-bangladesi@yahoogroups.com; tritiomatra@yahoogroups.com
> From: wouldbemahathirofbd@...
> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 06:41:44 -0700
> Subject: [ALOCHONA] A billion dollar question
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Has Bangladesh Army paid enough price for making wrong headed(declared by court) PM or will have to pay more? How much people will have to pay if she remains five year?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live™ Contacts: Organize your contact list.
> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009
>



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[ALOCHONA] Things to Ponder!

Things to Ponder!
 
Nayan Khan
 
Bangladesh faces lots of damages each day!
 
Universities' unrest, BDR massacre, two top Army bosses killed by helicopter crash, few Generals were forced to retire, and few more transferred to other places (Awami pandas may call it as regular norm in Govt.. or so!), and largest Mall Bashundhara destroyed!
 
So we can call all of them happened and will happen due to try warcriminials???!!!
When Bangladesh will come out from these nonsence gut? Col. Faruk Khan knows everything even before any investigation team submits their own report! He might have link with JMB or RAW so do Nanok who told crores of money poured to thugs for implementing BDR carnage
 
Shaikh Hasina was awarded 'daughter of peace' by two 'sons of peace' Nanok and Azam after BDR carnage, just like Bush was awarded after attacking Iraq and Afganistan!
 
BCL killed a Shibir leader in RU:
 
Education minister is in odd position in Sylhet by two faction of BCL:
 
Fire in Bashundhara:
 
Taleban's involvement found in BDR Mutiny-Law Minister:



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[ALOCHONA] Re: [Dahuk]: Nanok and Mirza Azam setting fire on bus

THE REWARD IS MINISTER N GREAT NEGOTIATOR LIKE b.tigress(amid sporadic firing without helmet n bull vest)

Later in gratitude bestow daughter of peace to the leader, the traumatic jonogon were taken aback by this "Puroshkar".



On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 6:31 AM, Durer Kontoshor <durerkontoshor@gmail.com> wrote:

SK Selims Confession about Setting Fire on Bus. He clearly specifies Nanok and Mirza Azam planning to set fire on bus, which killed 11 people.
These very people are our leaders. God help our motherland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOnOgnO-NAI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evqoQgIVeWU


SK Selim taking bribe for shidirgonz power plant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlbN1b5POww 

/DK




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[ALOCHONA] Re: [khabor.com] Ministries’ poor show irks PM


Hasina herself is a burdon of the ministry. She wants to prove that she is super efficient. She does not know how to delegate.
 
 She has selected "yes Hasina" in the ministry  and  disabled all on taking decision of their won.
 
 It is just time to see  when she will be repenting like his father, i got  party of thugs.
 
 No advise will work who thinks herself  master of all
Has Bangladesh Army paid enough price for making wrong headed(declared by court) PM or will have to pay more? How much people will have to pay if she remains five year?


--- On Mon, 3/16/09, M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu) <cgmpservices@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: M. M. Chowdhury (Mithu) <cgmpservices@yahoo.com>
Subject: [khabor.com] Ministries' poor show irks PM
To: cgmpservices@yahoo.com
Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 11:04 AM

Dear All,
 
I believe that this is a honest attempt for her administration and we should commend her for this bold statement.  But I like her to look at the root case why things are not happening as pmanifestostion menifestos:
 
1) When AL start's its politicization in Govt Depertments, it takes time to put most AL people in various depertments after their landslide win in  December 2008.  This actually slows down not only the activities at the Govt. departments but also slow in trusting AL Govt who should look after people's problems, not just AL grassroot people who helped AL to put in power.
 
2) AL's reluctant to stop student politics is back bitting AL election menifesto.  People are concern about education at Colleges and Universities. Old mentality to produce good leaders from student politics has to go to survive in 21st century.  I believe PM Hasina should think wisely to root out student politics by saying if anyone is found in student poltics from today will spend 5 years jail without anymore due process.  PM needs to provide carrot and stick policies.
 
3) Few of her green (need a job training) Ministers in her Administration need to go.  PM should listen few of advice come from NBRs and or internal to let step down few Ministers to get people trust back and ecomonical trust in Bangladesh.  I won't name them, AL Govt knows that.
 
4) People are in afarid of all looting, thugs and muscle men at Bangladesh, PM should control these troublemakers in iron hands either its in AL or other parties.
 
5) If AL can't produce those above items, they just might shorting their terms with people future pressure.
 
We all should help AL Govt to be successful and help Bnagladesh any way we can.
 
Regards,
 
M M Chowdhury (Mithu), USA
 
 
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ------
Ministries' poor show irks PM

 
Monday March 16 2009 01:26:09 AM BDT

 
The prime minister, Sheikh Hasina, has expressed concern over the problems her government is facing in providing services to the people and solving their problems as the ministries are not performing their duties with 'required speed'.(The Newage)

'The prime minister has recently expressed concern that the ministries are not performing duties with required speed,' said the prime minister's secretary, Molla Waheeduzzaman in a letter sent to secretaries of all ministries on Sunday.

'She observed that different ministries were making unnecessary delays in taking appropriate measures to implement decisions [of the government] and solve problems,' said the letter dated March 12, addressed to secretaries.

'As a result the government is facing problems in providing appropriate services to the people as well as solving their problems.'

The letter warned the secretaries, 'you [secretary] have to think whether the delay is wilful or for inexperience.'

Molla said that the newly elected democratic government had taken some decisions for the welfare of the people.

'It is obvious that the ministries are supposed to implement these decisions. It is undisputed that the expected results cannot be achieved if actions are not taken in time.'

The prime minister's secretary asked the secretaries to pay more attention to the activities of the subordinate officials of the respective ministries and to motivate them to work properly.

'Take legal and punitive actions if anyone makes delays or creates obstacles,' said the letter.

A number of secretaries to different ministries told New Age that it was a 'good move' by the Prime Minister's Office to rejuvenate the ministries but they observed that the slow performances of the ministries could be attributed to the panic that surfaced following the new government's move for random reshuffle in the administration.

'Besides, the officials were in a fright during the interim government. While signing files they feared the elected government could take actions against them. That culture of fear still exists,' said one of the secretaries.

He, however, felt that most of the officials did not perform their duties with utmost sincerity. 'I think it is the reflection of the reality that most officials do not perform their duties with sincerity,' he said.

Another secretary said that many officials in different ministries were also busy scrutinising the ordinances promulgated during the interim government, which resulted in delays in their regular activities.



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[ALOCHONA] Re: New Bangla Websites

Thanks with appreciation, these are very good website.
Thanks for the effort.

Sincerely,
Safique Ahmed


--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Farzana Kanak <farzana_kanak@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Members,
> I have Opened 2 Bangla websites.
> http://bd-serials.com
> &
> http://shonarbangladesh.com
> (For Bangla Natok, Drama Serial, Live Tv News and More)
> Pls visit my sites and give me feedback, so that I can improve in future.
>
> Regards
> Farzana
>


------------------------------------

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[ALOCHONA] Re: A fearful possibility.

Akbar Hossain says that Science has everything to say about what is possible and Science will never say what is permissible. But my question is to him, can the phrase or word "Science" speak for itself?
Can Science speak for what is or should be permissible? Can "Science itself" say or do what is possible or permissible? How? Can you please explain?

Thank you in advance.

Zahid

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[ALOCHONA] Re: 25 Commandoes came from India for BDR carnage

I think our queen madam started spreading this first about the foreign
commandos. But when she was cornered and asked to provide the evidence
to the law enforcement agencies, she quickly backed off. But her foot
soldiers are doing it for her religiously. To date, Khaleda could not
explain about her two nights (25 and 26 Feb) stay outside of cantonment
and who advised her to do it and why.

-MS

--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "worldbznews" <worldbznews@...> wrote:
>
> Enjoy!!
>
> http://www.eurobangla.co.uk/
>

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[ALOCHONA] Re: One more extension for Bangladesh army chief?

The following links tell the other side of the much publicized youtube audios:

http://www.shamokal.com/details.php?nid=105668

http://www.prothom-alo.com/archive/news_details_mcat.php?dt=2009-03-15&issue_id=1219&cat_id=3&nid=MTQ1OTEx&mid=Mw

A friendly suggestion to everyone - if you ever get a conspiracy theory laden email, and you feel like you found the absolute truth and you absolutely need to forward it to everybody in the whole world, think twice not to leave out the email trail.  One day you might find yourself in a position that you have to save your rear end, and that day you will be able to say that you were not the original writer of the letter which itself was part of a bigger conspiracy that includes bringing down a democratically elected govt., causing dissension among the members of its army, and pitting the govt. against its armed forces.  Just my two pennies in the hat.

Thanks-

Mohammad Musa Sarkar

--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Isha Khan <bd_mailer@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> One more extension for Bangladesh army chief?
>  
> Blitz Exclusive
> Chief of Bangladesh Army, General Moeen U Ahmed is set to get one more year extension when his tenure finishes on 6th April this year.A highly placed source in Awami League, on condition of anonymity said, the government decided to extend the service tenure of General Moeen.
>
> Meanwhile, there are indications of massive changes in the army administration following the post-massacre situation. Two of the Generals were already sent on retirement on Thursday.
>
> Bangladesh government also on Thursday, withdrew ban on Youtube site, which was blocked few days back for posting a content titled 'Sena Kunja Exclusive', which contains audio conversation of the meeting between the Prime Minister and members of the armed forces. Although the Bangladesh government lifted the blockade, the contents were not removed from the site. Due to the blockade, the content issue got maximum exposure in the international media. According to sources, number of hits in the specific files have increased several folds.
>
> Another source told that, list and details of the aggrieved officers, who were vocal during the meeting are being secretly prepared by a quarter at the verbal instruction from the ruling party. Reason behind such steps are yet to be understood.
>  
> http://www.weeklyblitz.net/index.php?id=486
>



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[mukto-mona] Response to Dure_Kothao's (Name Not Given) mail on some (ill conceieve)Thoughts About The BDR Massacare

Dear Mr……….(Since you did not give a name),
 
I read your response with interest. I must appreciate your efforts to twist and turn my posts in your own tune. Let me give you few examples:
 
You wrote:
"how are you jumping into the conclusion regarding the aircraft's accident due to bad weather?"
 
My Response:
 
How did you conclude that I was "jumping into conclusion". Please read what I wrote:
 
"However, in this case it was (as the preliminary findings suggest) not a problem with the aircraft but with bad weather and very poor visibility."
 
I highlighted what the preliminary findings were based on the conditions and narrations of the eyewitnesses that I had the privy of knowing very first hand – just after the crash. For your information, last Thursday, I was on a helicopter flight from Dhaka to Chittagong and have seen how strange the weather and visibility could be at this time of the year. However, detail investigations will follow that might reveal more facts.  To "enlighten" you, any aircraft investigation related to crash takes months if not years to "jump into conclusions". Your interpretation that I 'jumped into conclusion' was grossly wrong and false accusations. So please don't twist and turn what I wrote.  More so, are you sure this Bel-206 single engine utility helicopter had a black box? Le me be enlightened with your source.
 
Again You wrote:
 
"Army's corruption, I tend to agree with his observation based on analyzing the past actions of Army in the last few decades. Since you have been in defence for the last 25 years, I am sure you remember Gen Ershad's regime during the 80s. In comparison with the democratically elected Civilian Govt (e.g Khaleda Admin for 10 yrs and AL 5 yrs), Ershad and his croonies were less corrupt but they were no angels either. They were involved in the fair share of corruption even though they were paid handsomely and were given all the wonderful amenities given by the Govt."
 
My Response:
 
This part of your mail had two misleading thoughts that you very cunningly wanted to use at your own advantage. You perhaps did not care to read my mail. I have no problem to live with facts like "Army is Corrupt" if only you could validate your hypotheses of such  "corruption in the Army" using appropriate research methodology tools. Please note what I wrote to Mr Abul. Here's is it for you again:
 
"…How did you reach such conclusion? Did you do any research on the military or was it limited to your knowledge of your own family and friends that you terms as "personal contact"?  Can you tell me the sample size of your research? What was the significance level of your findings? Do you even know how many personnel are there in the Army?"
 
Sadly, you have not answered any of these vital research questions that were essential to prove that what you "tend to agree" was a product of your research. I am sure you are not suggesting that whatever comes from "dure Kothao"  or Mr Abul's perception has to be taken for granted to be authentic like the Bible. Well, in case you did not notice, this forum even debates scriptures and verses. It is people like you I am challenging who use their brain and efforts to  project their personal opinion and try to generalize it without being rationale in a forum that is meant for the rationalists! The standards are high here and any amount of fabrication, generalized personal opinion and blaming without proper justifications are bound have response, – and you can count on that. 
 
Again, you very cunningly bring the issue of Ershad (of whom I am not a great supporter, and don't consider I'm defending him) and connect it with Mr Abul's post and use it for your argument ignoring the context. Please note that Mr Abul was talking about the (alleged) corruption in the Army during the "CTG regime" and your 'blaming'  was related to Ershad's regime. The context is different here. Mr Abul's observations were based on his personal contacts while you did not refer anything (presumably literature review). Your efforts to connect 'CTG regime' with 'Ershad's regime' to refute my arguments appears misleading and outright deception.
 
Nevertheless, since you bring Ershad into it, I will request you to add one more fact in your analysis that you very cunningly forgot to mention in your post.  No matter how much we loath or hate Ershad, he was elected from all three places and many of his corruptions charges has been acquitted by the court.  Thus, while you measure the corruption level in the Army during Ershad's period (based on literature review) please consider this fact (as it is also literature and deserves counting unless your prejudiced). You may add a 'value' for this (i.e. acquittal by the court ) in your research tool. That will give you more unbiased findings.
 
Regarding the BDR incident you wrote:
 
"I understand that you are reluctant to rule out involvement of ISI, RAW, LET and other outside agencies, but I would ask you to shed some light about how (like many others) are so tempted to putt he blame on them instead of waiting out on the investigation report?"
 
I don't know what you meant here. Are you suggesting me to comment on others views? Yes I did that but only when I saw them projecting partial view and playing the blame game supporting either India or Pakis, BNP, or AL, Jamat or JMB. I maintain that anyone  is my suspect for this incident unless proved otherwise. I am not with those who want to project a partial view and initiate a blame game. I will not fall in your trap if you are suggesting that. Sorry.
 
Your understanding on the use (or abuse) of the military reaches its nadir when you commented:
 
"… I don't recall BD Army or Airforce ever involving herself in any war other than killing their own kinda (as in original) and the Father of the NATION!!)"
 
This surely reflects your understanding as you seem to see the military only as a war making machine. I don't blame you. This is a limitation of many who are tempted to generalize everything from their narrow perspective. Suffice to say that power of a nation state emanates from her political, diplomatic, economic, informational and military might. All these powers are fungible to some degree. However, the symbiotic relationship between the military and the other instruments of power is worth examining as it undergirds the total national power. The general perception that military power is only for war coupled with its misuse by dictatorial regimes in many small states like Bangladesh have hindered the growth of military power in right direction. But, states remain in peace more often than war and military power, particularly in case of small nations, is crucial to preserve and protect peace through its fungible nature. You may read more on this in BIISS JOURNAL, VOL. 27, NO. 1, January 2006, article 'Fungibility of Military Power and Imperatives fro Small Nations' (http://www.biiss.org/BIISS_JOURNAL.php?filename=journal/January2006_issue.html).  I will be happy to debate on it.
 
In essence, you tried to twist my words and tried to put words into my mouth. Let you be your own judge whether you succeeded in that or not. I am happy (not hurt) that you gave an opportunity to reveal your ill intentions wide open with sufficient clarity.  I hope you have got my views and questions more clearly this time and I hope you will not attempt such twist and turns in future and try to mislead people.  
 
Regards
Zahid Khan
Dhaka



__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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[ALOCHONA] New Bangla Websites

Dear Members,
I have Opened 2 Bangla websites.
http://bd-serials.com
&
http://shonarbangladesh.com
(For Bangla Natok, Drama Serial, Live Tv News and More)
Pls visit my sites and give me feedback, so that I can improve in future.
 
Regards
Farzana



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Re: [ALOCHONA] Some Thoughts About The BDR Massacare

No, absolutely not. There is a small (percentage-wise) dedicated group of people who are die-hard supporters of JI, Shibir, and some other militant groups. I do strongly believe most of the fringe militant (Islamic) groups are supported by JI in Bangladesh -- no I am not an Indian agent or paid agent of RAW! To create a massacre like the one in BDR, you don't need support of majority of the Bangladeshi people (actually if a good number of general people knew of it, it would have been stopped), you need a small group of fanatics who believe in some (misguided) ideology and would not mind sacrificing their lives for the greater "cause" they believe in. Just think about all the terrorist activities in Bangladesh and around the world, it is not supported by any large group of people, it has always been carried out a small group of people with misguided ideology.
 
Thanks,
 
- mashuque


From: Wohid <bidrohee@yahoo.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Some Thoughts About The BDR Massacare

Mashuque, do you suggest the whole nation has become Jamaat? BAL got absolute majority this time and Jamaat got only two seats. However, from your contention it transpires that the whole country is full of Jamaatis that the anti-Jamaati forces with their absolute power cannot prevent or counter such alleged Jamaati brutality? Or is it an attempt to cover up pro-Indian awami brutality? How far you can deceive the people of the country by this type of blame game?


From: Mashuque Rahman <mashuque@pacbell. net>
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com; baainews@yahoogroup s.com; bangla_ict@yahoogro ups.com; bangladeshi_ friends@yahoogro ups.com; bdresearchers@ yahoogroups. com; Bristi_Namai@ yahoogroups. com; chottala@yahoogroup s.com; dahuk@yahoogroups. com; Diagnose@yahoogroup s.com; Fariaz@yahoogroups. com; FutureOfBangladesh@ yahoogroups. com; khabor@yahoogroups. com; mukto-mona@yahoogro ups.com; notun_bangladesh@ yahoogroups. com; odhora@yahoogroups. com; reform-bd@yahoogrou ps.com; Shetubondhon@ yahoogroups. com; sonarbangladesh@ yahoogroups. com; uttorshuri@yahoogro ups.com
Cc: abuilla@yahoo. com
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:56:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Some Thoughts About The BDR Massacare

Nothing should be ruled out specially a combination of Jamaat and a small section of Army (driven by Jamaat ideology) being involved in the conspiracy whether it is all homegrown or not. With Jamaat infiltration into all the different branches of Army including the intelligence services, it will be very difficult to get to the bottom of this one (like all the other ones before) no matter how hard the govt really tries.


From: Mr. Abul <abuilla@yahoo. com>
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com; baainews@yahoogroup s.com; bangla_ict@yahoogro ups.com; bangladeshi_ friends@yahoogro ups.com; bdresearchers@ yahoogroups. com; Bristi_Namai@ yahoogroups. com; chottala@yahoogroup s.com; dahuk@yahoogroups. com; Diagnose@yahoogroup s.com; Fariaz@yahoogroups. com; FutureOfBangladesh@ yahoogroups. com; khabor@yahoogroups. com; mukto-mona@yahoogro ups.com; notun_bangladesh@ yahoogroups. com; odhora@yahoogroups. com; reform-bd@yahoogrou ps.com; Shetubondhon@ yahoogroups. com; sonarbangladesh@ yahoogroups. com; uttorshuri@yahoogro ups.com
Cc: abuilla@yahoo. com
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:00:32 PM
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Some Thoughts About The BDR Massacare

First of all, I pray for the departed souls who lost their lives during this BDR event.
 
At the same time, I can't but mention the following points:
 
1.  Who is going to talk about the corruption of Army during care taker Government?  I know from my personal contacts that many Army officers did sky high corruption during that time.  Please keep in mind that Army is such a force who does huge corruption, BUT nobody can catch them at any time.  On the other hand they are gifted with MP nomination and eventually become minister as soon as they retire.  This is the first time in BD that some Army officers had to give lives (except the Army killing by Ziaur Rahman in late '70s).
 
2.  Anybody who has little bit of sense will understand that the BDR event was planned by experts who has clear knowledge about war planning.  And in BD only two forces can do that -- one is Jamaat and the other is Army.  
 
3.  Was the helicopter crash just an accident?  A Major General died and why is Army so quite?  The helicopter was bought only three years back, isn't it unlikely to have an accident now??
 
4.  The person who was allegedly driving the APC (so called bullet proof car) in Pilkhana committed suicide within custody?  Is this just another accident?
 
5.  Now come to the audio --  Army is trained for crisis management and war time situation.  But the way the officers were talking to Sk Hasina, that was extremely emotional, immature and childlike.  I can expect this from people like us, but NOT from Army officers.  Why they were finger pointing and doing emotional blackmailing?  Is this just sympathy or something else???
 
6.  Why the officers put their hands on DAD Tauhid's mouth when he was trying to say something to the media ???
 
So, we can never rull out Army's involvement in the whole event.  As we have seen before, the main criminals will never be identified and some poor BDR folks (may be some DADs, jawans will be hanged).
 
Sorry if I hurt anybody by any chance ............ ..
 
Regards.
 
-Mr. Abul






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