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Thursday, August 18, 2016

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support



Excellent response!
When I think about reasons why some countries are so advanced, but others aren't, one of the reasons come to my mind is that – all developed countries have open society, meaning atmosphere to think freely, which underdeveloped societies do not. In other words,  Western world have liberated their societies from the reign of religious autocracy, which underdeveloped countries could not.
Now, entire world is transitioning towards the open society, which is causing a cultural clash, mainly, with the Muslim society, being the most closed society in the world. And, Muslim society is trying to hold on to the status quo, for now, but, not for long; this dam will break, and Muslim society will become open as well; it has to. Only question is – when?
Jiten Roy  




From: "ANISUR RAHMAN anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Msa40 <msa40@aol.com>; "chowdhuryk@gmail.com" <chowdhuryk@gmail.com>; "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>; "mahfuzur@aol.com" <mahfuzur@aol.com>; "abul88@hotmail.com" <abul88@hotmail.com>; "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 9:58 AM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support

 
It so happens that I am exchanging views in the FB on this very issue at the moment. My FB friend posted a topic from the BBC News webpage that "Ethnic minorities face 'entrenched' racial inequality" in Britain. 
My answer to this was as follows:
It is a chicken and egg situation. The Pakistani/ Ethiopian/ Somali/ Bangladeshi and so forth immigrants come to this country (or any other country in the West) and very soon get sucked into their respective ghettos. They are happy staying there and follow the well trodden path - go to the mosques and keep praying for God's handouts and, of course, blame the British government for racial discrimination. They don't make efforts to break out of the cocoon and improve their lots. Whether it is their economic deprivation that leads them to blind religious alley or the religious blindness stops them from embracing the opportunities in life is debatable. It may be that one feeds into another and they go down to the bottom of the pit. But notice that the Jews previously and the Indians now are not like the Muslim immigrants. They embrace the new culture and flourish. It is the Muslim immigrants or vast majority of them (from whichever country they may be) are problematic.

My FB friend replied:
 I remember in the sixties there were arguments about lack of action on the part of the UK government to absorb new immigrants into mainstream society. In some European countries attempts were made to push new immigrants for integration. I agree bulk of the responsibility for integration falls on the immigrants, but the government must provide adequate support system. There should be orientation for new immigration. They should be told right at the beginning that they must adapt to the culture of the country or go back where they came from. 

My response to this was:
Yes, the government can create a favourable environment for the immigrants to succeed. But the government cannot force the immigrants to go to training/ education centres to learn English, to get skills, to embrace culture and etiquette to succeed in the job market etc. If they do, they would be charged as running a "NANNY STATE". It is the responsibility of the immigrants to go out and seek out the opportunities - in skills, training, education etc; as much as they seek out all types of social security, child allowance, housing benefits etc. 

If you want to contribute to this debate you are welcome. Alternatively you can join as FB friends.

- AR 


On Thursday, 18 August 2016, 14:31, Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com> wrote:


Thank you for providing us a clearer picture of UK. It looks like all is not lost yet. It is rather sad to see that these lowlifes love to  migrate to other countries but would love create the very same ghettos as they have had in their home countries. What can a civil society do? Start a massive affirmative action to enlighten these people, who are hellbent to oppose the progress and system?
This is like a total self defeating act with no goal and honor.  

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 4:47 AM, ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com> wrote:
I do agree with the general sentiments expressed by MA. But I do positively disagree with him when he says that there are areas in Britain where non-Muslims are banned from going and Pakistani vigilantes patrol the streets to enforce that ban. I have been living in the UK for over 46 years now and I travelled up and down the country quite extensively. I can assure MA that there is NO SUCH PLACE in the UK. If he can cite just one such place, I will bring that up with the relevant authorities and any such presumed "vigilante groups" will be brought to an end. 

There are of course Pakistani ghettos, as much as there are Bangladeshi ghettos, Somalian ghettos etc. Some of those areas (no more than one or two streets) are so depressing and deprived that people would not like to go. But anybody has the right to go and nobody can prevent others from going. In other words, there are no "no-go" areas in Britain. There were some "no-go" areas in Brussels, but the authorities are dismantling those areas.

Yes, there are Pakistani ghettos. Pakistanis live there as if they are living in Pakistan, going to the mosques are their preoccupation and once a week they go to collect their unemployment benefits. They live in, what I call, "self generated apartheid enclaves". If they want to live in seclusion as the underclass of the society, hated and despised by civilised people, let them live there. But if someone wants to go that area, no Pakistani or any other person has the right to stop that. That is the bottom line.

- AR   


On Wednesday, 17 August 2016, 17:06, Msa40 <msa40@aol.com> wrote:


 
 
"If Brits are pushed to a corner in their own turf, mobs and vigilantes may take the laws in their own hands."
 
It is a possibility, but we must remember that Britain and other Western Nations are in the grip of a "politically correct syndrome" and the law
enforcers would do everything possible to protect the Muslims. We must also remember that there are areas in Britain where non-Muslims
are forbidden from going and Muslim vigilantes patrol the streets to ensure the ban. There is a city in Britain where Pakistanis live as if they
are living in Pakistan!
 
Sadiq Khan was elected not by the Muslims alone. He is in office due to non-Muslims, who are still in majority in London. And this happened
despite the fact that London had suffered a few terrorist attacks before he became its Mayor!
 
I think until the mainstream media in England and elsewhere start reporting the plight of the local non-Muslim citizens, British people are not
likely to wake up from their slumber into which they have been put by their leaders. Tony Blair played a major role in putting his people into
a long sleep!
 
West needs leaders who can speak the truth and not be afraid to lose in election. Until this happens, West would continue to suffer at the
hands of the terrorists and the severity of their sufferings would multiply with the passage of time!!
 
 
-MA
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com>
To: Khurshed Chowdhury <chowdhuryk@gmail.com>
Cc: Msa40 <msa40@aol.com>; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; pfc-friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> ; bangladesh-progressives googlegroups <mailto:bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 17, 2016 6:13 am
Subject: Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support

With the same breath, I can also say that the patience is running very thin when these people are openly propagating hatred and destruction of the west and its civil institutions. If Brits are pushed to a corner in their own turf, mobs and vigilantes may take the laws in their own hands. So, deport or no deport, Brits had it enough with these scoundrels. If they face another attack from these lunatics, all bets would be off. I bet Sadiq Khan is pretty nervous about the next one if I am not mistaken. 

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Khurshed Chowdhury <chowdhuryk@gmail.com> wrote:
Very well said by Mr. Asghar. Britain will not deport these Jihadists for fear of violating their ridiculous human rights BS. They will rather keep these Islamists in their prison and will supply them milk and honey so that—these jihadists can perform their duties of serving Islam better! Massaallah!!!
 
 
KC
 
From: msa40@aol.com [mailto:msa40@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:31 PM
To: Shah DeEldar; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; bangladesh-progressives googlegroups
Cc: Khurshed Chowdhury
Subject: Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
 
Britain may not deport them anywhere citing fear of their execution, instead it will put them in jail so that they can influence its inmates at the cost of the tax payers money!!
 
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
 
------ Original message------
From: Shah DeEldar
Date : Tue, Aug 16, 2016 9:59 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.commailto:;pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; bangladesh-progressives googlegroups;
Cc: Msa40;Khurshed Chowdhury;
Subject:Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
 
It is about time to have gloves off. These characters do not belong to the Western society. Deport him to land of pure and honey! Nobody will miss such POS!




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Posted by: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>


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