Banner Advertiser

Monday, July 17, 2017

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Fwd: মুসলিম �¦ : 'নট ইন মাà':

অন্যের জন্যে গর্ত খুঁড়লে সেই গর্তে নিজেই পড়তে হয়, ভাইজানেরা এখন সেই গর্তেই পড়ছেন? 

On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Dristy Pat [mukto-mona] <> wrote:
Boxbe This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! ( Add cleanup rule | More info


Islamists have turned their attention to India, and they will incite violence against Muslims, if need be, to incite Muslim community around the world.

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 5:29 PM, Razzak Syed [mukto-mona] <> wrote:
[Attachment(s) from Razzak Syed [mukto-mona] included below]

Thank you Zainul bhai for your beautiful response to Mr. Guha. May Allah(SWT) reward you for your patience and strength your 'Imaan'. Surely Allah (SWT)'s mercy is always with the Mumin who has patience. Please keep us in your Doa's.

Ranu Bhai thank you for sharing it, I missed it.


Razzak A. Syed

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Jul 2017, at 3:09 am, RANU CHOWDHURY <> wrote:

Thanks, Zainul Bhai, for your to the point and elaborate response to persons of bigoted mindsets propagating against Islam. 

From: 'zainul abedin' via PFC-Friends <>
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2017 4:14 AM
Cc: Khabor(email group) DC;
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Fwd: মুসলিম হত্যার বিরুদ্ধে ভারত জুড়ে নাগরিক বিক্ষোভ : 'নট ইন মাই নেম':
Salam Karim bhai,
We do not need to be frustrated. What you said is almost like that. There are some so-called Muslims but not Muslims who find only faults of Muslims/Islam. Yes, I agree the view that Muslims are not Muslims, now-a-days, so there are many problems.
I do not reply to pseudonyms and draped Muslims, because they prove once again to be Islam/Muslim bashers. They are very educated and intelligent but misguided. So, let them make their own broth.
With An Appeal to Sitangshu Guha Da'. Please read it as I read yours most of the time!
Sitangshu  Guha Da' commented "That is why India is great….. ," on the Posting of Mr. M.G. Khan's 'নট ইন মাই নেম':মুসলিম হত্যার বিরুদ্ধে ভারত জুড়ে নাগরিক বিক্ষোভ."

Mr. Guha's latest comment (as I saw) is: "The debate here is in between human beings and some fundamentalist Islamists?"
First, Mr. Shoaib came up with some good explation of Mulim rulers' role bringing Indian subcontinent to a greater entity (not all areas) which once befell into framgments of different sizes for many centuries Laler on, British had some role, no doubt—though they played the role of divide and rule.
Recently, a classmate of mine (AR, not the person in the blog) who stood first in his Masters from DU Journalism Department and worked in the Daily Sagbad (a left-leaning NP) wrote a book on the "Political History of the Subcontinent" (Upo-Mohadesher Rajnoitik Itihas) opined almost the same Mr. Shoaib said.
[Anis bhai who lives in West told me that his children got the highest degrees (including Ph.D., and medical doctorate). So, what he should do—write against the popular but distoted history of the subcontinent including Bangladesah.]
Second, Mr. Guha does not understand Islam, looks at Islam as mere a religion (as other religions). I do not blame him because even many Muslims and so-called Muslims do not undertand that, that lead them to mistakes. In reality, Islam/Prophet(s)/ Quoran/Allah (Creator) say Islam started from Adam /Eve (AS)…. Ummat-e-Mhammadi is the latest and largest stage of Islam/Muslims. At this stage, Islam became the rule/affair of the state once again after a clearcut example of the Rule of David and Solaiman (AS). Adam (AS) was the first ruler of his community though it was very small.
Third, I am with Mr. Guha and others who raise the question of repressions of minorities in the Muslim countries. There are many causes, which are mostly related to family-feuds, social/personal/political. Mr. Guha on June 27, 2017 posted nine links all of which are of the same nature. Muslims (including Mr. Guha's supportrd government of Hasina Devi) being majority should take responsibility of protecting the neighbors/minorities. One item says: হিন্দু মেয়েকে জোরপূর্বক বিয়ে, হত্যাসহ ভারতে চলে যাওয়ার হুমকি…" The trouble-maker (ex-police-officer) had three more marriages before. The beautiful girl of the Hindu family which is in trouble could/should have considered drawing government attention before succumbing to this bad/mean-man….It was the result of long-term relations!
Another posting: "ভোলায় ধর্ম নিয়ে কটুক্তি, ব্যাংক কর্মকর্তার বিরদ্ধে বিক্ষোভ মিছিল" (ভোলা প্রতিনিধি    জুন, ২০১৭). A bottom line: "...আমার বিরুদ্ধে যারা এসব অভিযোগ করেছেন তারা এক সময়ে আমার খুব ঘনিষ্ট ছিল।সেই সুবাদে অনেক সময়েই ব্যাংকে আসা-যাওয়া করত। অনেক আবদারও ছিল। ...তিনি আরো বলেন, আমি এতদিন খুব বিপদে ছিলাম। আমার জীবনও শঙ্কটাপন্ন ছিল। তাই অফিস আমাকে ভোলা থেকে গতকালই বদলি করে দিয়েছেন।" Very good, just some wicked/alternative guess--These close-friends might be AL people. And, this gentleman needed to leave Bhola and be in a better place/city!
Another posting was on the breaking/stealing of idols in a temple in Khulna. The apprehension about the motive of the thieves was that they might have looked for precious relics/artefacts etc. So, the incident was not related to communalism (Islamic "fundamentalism" as we see in a bad sense, what should not be!).
There were some incidents of gruesome killings. I/we vehemently condemn that. But all were mostly related to family feuds and/or grabbing properties. Any BD government should protect them. No Molla/Moulovies were involed in the incidents.
Recently, I wached a Hindu advocate's video who even praised the role of Jamaat in protecting Hindus from attacks in Noakhali. Moeover, think of the marginalization of BNP-Jamaat who are not only intimidated but also annihilated from the social arenas by killings, abductions, jailings, extortions, legal suits etc. in thousands. How do they come forward to the aid of their minority neighbors (I believe they should do) when their exitence is threatened!
Also, please see how many dozens of killings/kidnapping/abductions/ force-marriages, divorces, grabbing of property of the poor (who are even Muslims) etc. happen each day in Bangladesh and/or elsewhere. So, we also need to see the general condition of a country/society in discussion. Except a few of the past incidents (behind which AL ements were mostly involed), not an incident posted by Mr. Guha is similar to those happenings in India (especially ruling BJP-instigated/purporated).
Now,  I like to draw the attention to the question of Guha Da':  Why non-Muslims are not growing in any Muslim land, on the other hands Muslims are growing in all non-Muslim lands, including India, West and America and they do better in infidel lands than their own Islamic hubs? 
Also, Mr. Guha (June 28, 2017): মানুন আর না মানুন, ভারত মহান ছিলো, আজো আছেকুয়ার ব্যাঙ কুয়াকে সমুদ্র ভাবে? আমি যে প্রশ্নগুলো করেছিলাম, এর একটির উত্তরও আপনার কাছে নেই, অবশ্য, সন্ত্রাস ছাড়া আর মুসলিম দেশগুলোর আছেই বা কি? …ধর্মান্তরের কথা বলেছেন? আপনি নিজেও ধর্মান্তরিত, মানে আপনার পূর্ব-পুরুষকে জোর করে ধর্মান্তর করা হয়েছে। এটাই ইতিহাস। আর আপনার বাড়ির পাশের কথা বলেছেনশুনুন সমুদ্র থেকে দুই চার ঘটি জল নর্মদায় গিয়ে পড়লে সমুদ্রের কিছু হয়না। আপনারা যে চলে গেছেন এতে বরং আমাদের লাভ, কারণ কথায় আছে, "দুষ্ট গরুর চাইতে শূন্য গোয়াল ভালো"
Here, Guha Da,' you gave some answers to some of your queries, such as "ধর্মান্তরের কথা." Please see,
  1. "…ভারত মহান ছিলো, আজো আছে" I partially agree with you. The people who have been protesting against killings of Muslims are mostly left-leaning people/parties. These Indo-leftists and many others, opine that Muslim rulers including Aurangojeb were very liberal (though personally pious/conservative) in regards to other religions/beliefs. I told in my notes many a time that the Indian leftists are better than most of our Bangladeshi ones, who have become vested interest, and who are now in or with the government. What role they are playing. Shriar kKabirs and Montasir Mamuns have kept them limited to Muslim-bashing and anti-Islamic propaganda that feeds them the Indo-West invitation/visits (a kind of intellectual but corrupt business). They are with the government and their positive role of mobilizing general masses against odd-incidents could help improve the situation. Instead they kept themselves busy angainst Islam/Muslims in the name of secularism which (at least by their role) generally supports anything (such as many Hindu-cultures) but Islam. I am not against Hidu-culture, but when you put those against Islam (majority people's faith) you cannot make a positive impact.
  2. Sitangshu Da,' you writes/mentions about American politics that took a conservative/racist turn against "liberalism" (right or wrong), though majority of the Democratic Party is mostly conservative. So far so many racist incidents have been happening. Are Muslims responsible for this about-turn of Americans?
  3. ধর্মান্তরের কথা বলেছেন?...আপনার পূর্ব-পুরুষকে জোর করে ধর্মান্তর করা হয়েছে." "জোর করে ধর্মান্তর করা হয়েছে" is not true. You cannot prove that. Please look at the history. If it were true, India, Spain, East Europe should have been Muslim majority, or should have been full of mass-graves from carcasses from both sides!
  4. "ধর্মান্তর" is a universal process from the ancient times. So, the prophets came down. Jews/Christians also believe in successionanism, means conversion and/or reversion. We are at the last stage of that. Islam, at this point, is the last stage. That's why "….on the other hands Muslims are growing in all non-Muslim lands, including India, West and America…"
    In this process, even Jesus will come down as a Muslim ruler (not as a prophet) at one stage. And, again, there will be the reverse situation, meaning declining of the believers and culminating to the Hereafer (I think, even Hindus believe that).
    You know how many people have been accepting Islam even in America, Europe, and Latin America where the situation is contrary to your view of "Muslim" majority counties. This is the matter of successionism.
    BTW, most qualified/educated/ scholarly people are coming to the shade of Islam, despite some bad people(Muslims) as you/we talk about. At the same time, some bad (even so-called learned) Muslims are going astray. This is natural. Allah (SWT) decared replacement bad people with good people. So, you can think of yourself (as a good person against the bad "Muslims")in your language ""দুষ্ট গরু". I pray to Allah (I am not a preacher, but a well-wisher!) to accept you in the Right Path of Islam to replace the bad elements (দুষ্ট গরু)which is natural. The Almighty most probably will not keep the "গোয়াল" শূন্য, at least for certain time. Good people like you can fill out the gap.
    I did not/could not answer your all queries or address your angers, but tried a few. Please forgive me for anything excess, or wrong.
    May Allah bless us all.
    Best wishes,
    Zainul Abedin

On Tuesday, July 4, 2017 6:34 PM, Sitangshu Guha <> wrote:

The debate here is in between human beings and some fundamentalist Islamists? 

On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:53 PM, Rezaul Karim <> wrote:
Boxbe This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! ( Add cleanup rule | More info

I wonder if we are debating here with some Indians or  Bangladeshis?  

In 2012, the Indian government stated 22% of its population is below its official poverty limit. The World Bank, in 2011 based on 2005's PPPs International Comparison Program, estimated 23.6% of Indian population, or about 276 million people, lived below $1.25 per day on purchasing power parity.

On Jul 4, 2017 12:47 AM, "ANISUR RAHMAN" < > wrote:
I agree absolutely with Sitangshu Guha that this protest in India against racist attacks makes India great and civilised. One should not try to compare India with Muslim majority countries, what they do or don't etc. India should be compared with Western civilised countries. 

After every Islamist terrorist attack in Britain or in Europe or in America, almost all the leaders - political, religious, Labour - immediately say that we must not try to retaliate. If we do, we will let the terrorists win. We must stand together and defeat this vile mentality. Because of this stand, there is no race riot in the West.

Can you even imagine that in Bangladesh or in Pakistan, Hindus attack mosques or Hindus kill scores of Muslims and Muslim leaders saying that there must not be any revenge attacks, we are all together, we must fight this vile attitude together? The Muslim leaders will be fanning the race riots in the country. The same probably goes in India. That is why West is developed and East is not. 

India is breaking away from vile sectarian attitude. As the Chinese philosopher Confucius once said, "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves."  

- AR

On Thursday, 29 June 2017, 2:28, Sitangshu Guha <> wrote:

That is why India is great, we don't see this in Bangladesh and in Pakistan, nor even in any Muslim countries, where non-Muslims are persecuted all the possible ways until that becomes a pure Muslim land? I ask this question many a times, nobody cares to answer: Why non-Muslims are not growing in any Muslim land, on the other hands Muslims are growing in all non-Muslim lands, including India, West and America and they do better in infidel lands than their own Islamic hubs? 


[Message clipped]  

Sitanggshu Guha


Posted by: Sitangshu Guha <>

Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:




"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190