Dear Shafiq
I did appreciate which Bangladeshis you were referring to. And you have clarified the treatment of those who were held against their will. I asked the question initially because I misunderstood your use of the term `concentration camps'. Thank you for the clarification.
The spirit of Jinnah would be ignored by their politicians just as the spirit of Mujib is ignored by our politicians. Certainly Bangladesh would ignore Jinnah when refusing to accept 5 times as many returnees as Pakistan! If the numbers are correct of course.
Thank you also for information on the Multan address. It does explain a lot.
I shall not diminish your last para in anyway. Rather, I will support it by quoting you directly:
"Those who have committed the crimes must be punished. The number killed is important but it no way should hinder the trials and it can start with any number even with one."
Ameen to that.
I shall continue to question the scale of the number killed because I think clarification on that – or even the process of clarification – would have tremendous benefits for our nation today. I believe that knowingly and unknowingly we do not look in the mirror and honestly appraise ourselves. And our continued refusal to do so renders absolutely everything vulnerable to review and criticism.
Thanks for your informative replies.
Best wishes
Ezajur Rahman
Kuwait
--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, shafiq013@... wrote:
>
>
> Dear Ejazur
>
> Again sorry for the delayed response
>
> I was not talking about Bangladeshis living in Moosa Colony for example,
> in Karachi now. I was talking about Bangladeshis who were in Government
> Service (both Military and Civilians), mostly living with their families
> in the then West Pakistan at the time of liberation of Bangladesh. The
> then Government of Pakistan asked all those Bengalis if the opt to go to
> "so called" Bangladesh (Pakistan had not recognized by that
> time). Other than Biharis who were in Government service on East
> Pakistan quota, very few Bangladeshis opted for Pakistan. The Military
> personals were already in concentration camps and later the head of
> civilian families were also taken to the concentration camps leaving
> their families to pull along on their own. I must say here that in
> general the attitude and behavior of local population was good with
> these Bangladeshi families though there were some unwanted isolated
> incidences. The UN sponsored repatriation of these Bangladeshis, I
> think, started in early 1973 and continued for about 1 year Bangladesh
> was demanding trials of 195 Pakistanis at that time, Mr. Bhutto, of
> course in private, threatened to try these stranded Bangladeshis on
> treason charges if Bangladesh insists on their stand.
>
> As you said though it is out of context, in 2002 Musharaf reportedly
> said that if Bangladesh pressed Pakistan to accept the repatriation of
> 200,000 biharis, Pakistan would require Bangladesh to accept the
> repatriation of a million Bengalis living illegally in Pakistan. As a
> matter of fact Gen. Musharaf or any Pakistani cannot justify it as
> Jinnah had said; Pakistan is the homeland of the Muslims of
> sub-continent. You know what it means, not the stranded Biharis in
> Bangladesh even those one million Bengalis has the right to live in
> Pakistan, of course if they are Muslims.
>
> About Simla accord since you touched this subject, besides, some written
> clauses, there was an unwritten clause in Simla accord for Pakistan to
> recognize Bangladesh. Mr. Bhutto in the same context addressed a public
> meeting in Multan just after the Simla accord in an attempt to prepare
> Pakistanis for recognition of Bangladesh. However, the whole audience
> started shouting No! No! when Mr. Bhutto suggested for it in that public
> meeting. Mr. Bhutto was furious and started cursing in very
> un-parliamentary words. I cannot repeat those words but funny the
> proceeding of the meeting was being transmitted live. However, I agree
> with you that trial of 195 Pakistanis could not take place mainly due to
> the hegemony of India.
>
> Back again to crime against humanity, those who have committed the
> crimes must be punished. (Today, even Jamaat leaders don't deny that
> there were no crimes). The number killed is important but it no way
> should hinder the trials and it can start with any number even with one.
>
> Regards
> Shafiq
> --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "ezajur" Ezajur@ wrote:
> >
> > Dear Shafiq
> >
> > I have been very critical of BNP when it was in power. BNP's
> > reaction to Pakistan was an appalling whimper – just like AL's
> > would have been. `Gaa baachaya' behaviour is our national ethos.
> > If Aung San Suu Kyi was whipped in public we would get the headline:
> > `Dhaka urges caution'.
> >
> > All governments have a responsibility to the victims of 1971. And it
> is
> > important to substantiate the 3 million number precisely because
> > traitors question it. I question it also to upset our hypocrites –
> > the ones that keep silent, no matter what, when their party is in
> power,
> > AL or BNP. I was not asking for a few collaborators to be hanged –
> > rather why so few are pursued.
> >
> > We cannot compare anything we can set up with the Nuremberg trials.
> What
> > vanity! Those trials started quickly, lasted about a year and charged
> > two dozen Nazi leaders. There is no question of Bangladesh standing up
> > for its dead and demanding the trial of Pakistani war criminals. It
> does
> > not even occur to us. We prefer songs.
> >
> > At least I thought about looking for mass graves. It is rather you who
> > looks for excuses not to do so. J . The ICT visited two mass graves in
> > Sylhet recently. No numbers of course.
> >
> > I have no idea what you are talking about next.
> >
> > I challenged Mohsin Ali to a debate and debate requires argument. J.
> Are
> > you saying my challenge amounts to nothing because I tried to be
> polite
> > and agreed to his counteroffer? The bodies of 3 million people are not
> > molehills – they are mountains.
> >
> > I did not deny Junaid Sultan a debate. I gave reasons for a different
> > approach and he agreed – he could have refused. I am still meeting
> > him and we will still discuss the issues.
> >
> > Please don't confuse our efforts at being polite with being tame.
> > Won't take much for us to talk like a Nethri J
> >
> > Any more information on the Bengalis in concentration camps in
> Pakistan
> > in 1971? It would be good to know. In 2002 Musharaf reportedly said
> that
> > if Bangladesh pressed Pakistan to accept the repatriation of 200,000
> > biharis, Pakistan would require Bangladesh to accept the repatriation
> of
> > a million Bengalis living illegally in Pakistan. Load of crap?
> Probably.
> > Shocking if true? Not really. TIB as our young Bangladeshis say. This
> Is
> > Bangladesh.
> >
> > The Simla Pact (July 1972) seemingly had nothing to with the recently
> > independent sovereign state of Bangladesh and victors of the war of
> > 1971. It had everything to do with the India sorting out its own
> accords
> > with Pakistan - including handing over those who butchered 3 million
> > Bengalis!
> >
> > No wonder criminals have had political patronage ever since!
> >
> > Ezajur Rahman
> >
> > Kuwait
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, shafiq013@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Ejazur
> > >
> > > Thanks for your quote of Gen. Mushraf during his visit to Dhaka. I
> did
> > > remember it vaguely but not fully. I totally agree that this is not
> > > apology. But may I ask you what was the reaction of the then
> > Government
> > > of Bangladesh? Hope you have not forgotten it but you did not
> mention
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Mr.Ejazur, I do believe no proper investigation was conducted by the
> > > immediate Government after liberation of the country but if that
> > > Government failed to do so was not it the responsibility of the
> > > subsequent Governments? Why whenever there is demand of war
> criminal,
> > a
> > > certain quarter always try to dilute the issue by questioning the
> no.
> > of
> > > people killed? It is good that you mentioned that it is 2011. Man
> > those
> > > crimes were committed in 1971, 40 years ago. If you would have
> > > appreciated the facts you would have not said," In 2011 we seek only
> > > that half a dozen collaborators are hanged". I am aware that you
> > > know history very well. Do you remember when trial of Nuremberg
> > started
> > > and how long it continued?
> > >
> > > I agree with you that we are a nation of world class excuse makers.
> > You
> > > further said that you are from Sylhet and perhaps you should start
> > > looking for mass graves there. I know for sure when someone shall
> ask
> > > you to do it you make an excuse.
> > >
> > > Mr. Ejazur it is human nature that when we run out of arguments we
> > start
> > > throwing challenges. You did the same thing. And what is the result?
> > You
> > > and your compatriots tried to make mountain out of a mole hole. You
> > made
> > > a big fuss out of it just by playing with the words. But when one
> > > alochok made a counter challenge, you acted like a tamed cat.
> > >
> > > If you knew the history well you would have not commented," How do
> > > you have 3 million killed and then release ALL the killers in return
> > for
> > > recognition by Pakistan?! Because India or the Saudis required it?"
> > > Do you have any idea how many Bengalis were stranded in Pakistan at
> > that
> > > time? Not only military but civilians also. What was the treatment
> to
> > > them, when asked for, they opted for Bangladesh? Even the civilian
> > head
> > > of families were taken to concentration camps leaving back their
> > > families to pull along on their own. To educate you more on this
> > > subject, Pakistan agreed to release the stranded Bengalis only after
> > the
> > > Simla pact. To the best of my knowledge (I may be wrong), Pakistan
> > > recognized Bangladesh much later and Saudi Arabia recognized
> > Bangladesh
> > > after 1975.
> > >
> > > With best regards
> > >
> > > Shafiq
> > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "ezajur" Ezajur@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Shafiq
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No regets needed – we are all busy. Damned modern life!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Here is Musharraf on a visit to Dhaka in July 2002:
> > > >
> > > > "Your brothers and sisters in Pakistan share the pains of the
> events
> > > of
> > > > 1971. The excesses committed during the unfortunate period are
> > > > regrettable," Musharraf said at the banquet on Monday night.
> > > >
> > > > "Let us bury the past in the spirit of magnanimity. Let not the
> > light
> > > of
> > > > the future be dimmed. Let us move forward together," Musharraf
> said,
> > > > adding that 'courage to compromise is greater than to confront'.
> > > >
> > > > This is no apology by any definition at any level. It is fuzzy
> wuzzy
> > > > language used everyday by our political classes to justify the
> > > failures
> > > > of their preferred political party. Genocide and mass rape cannot
> be
> > > > regrettable excesses to be simply buried. He dared to say so
> because
> > > he
> > > > was speaking personally and not at a State level, because his host
> > was
> > > > the poor foreign minister Morshed Khan, and because he does not
> take
> > > > Bangladesh's numbers seriously.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Certainly Sheikh Mujib had his hands full after 1971. But he is
> > > > nevertheless accountable for what happened on his watch. Even now,
> > > when
> > > > our Prime Minister, as Defence Minister, fails to surround the BDR
> > > Camp,
> > > > we forgive her because apparently she `did her best'. Well we
> > > > are a very understanding lot it seems J
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We claim that in 1971 3 million of our country men were killed and
> > > > 400,000 raped. Since 1971:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1. No state level investigation into the murders and rapes
> > > > 2. No international inquiry into the murders and rapes
> > > > 3. In 2011 we seek only that half a dozen collaborators are hanged
> > > > 4. No effort to name the dead as much as is possible
> > > > 5. No effort to identify the bodies as much as is possible
> > > > 6. No effort to locate the mass graves as much as possible
> > > > 7. All Pakistani POWs released without trial after killing 3
> > > millions
> > > > 8. No state level agenda for apologies or reparations from
> > > Pakistan
> > > > 9. No inquiry by India on the number of Bengali refugees who died
> > > > 10. No investigation into whether the number 3 lac was translated
> > > into
> > > > 3 million
> > > > 11. No improvement in social attitudes towards rape victims in the
> > > 4
> > > > decades since
> > > > 12. Blah blah blah
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And now in 2011 we have only the silent tears of those who lost
> > loved
> > > > ones and a lot of sentimental songs. And the use of the numbers as
> > > > landmarks in our rotten political narrative.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How do you have 3 million killed and then release ALL the killers
> in
> > > > return for recognition by Pakistan?! Because India or the Saudis
> > > > required it?! What country does not look for the mass graves of 3
> > > > million murdered people? Is it pointless? Or is it because the
> vast
> > > > majority of our dead are poor people whom no one in power ever
> > really
> > > > missed? We tend to make a great fuss about our educated martyrs
> and
> > > the
> > > > odd symbolic member of the lower classes.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We are a nation of world class excuse makers.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nobody gives a crap what Bangladesh's official position is on the
> > > > number. The Indians don't comment and the Pakistani's are
> > > > incredulous. Sigh.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Imran Khan has done a better job than us of demanding Pakistan
> > > > apologises properly to Bangladesh!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We are better than this. And our martyrs deserve better than a
> > > monument
> > > > and a bunch of songs.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am from Sylhet. Perhaps I should start looking for mass graves
> > > there.
> > > > I could ask my local MP to help but I suspect he's busy trying to
> > > > get a banking licence J
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please do write when you can.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My best wishes to you.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ezajur Rahman
> > > >
> > > > Kuwait
> > > >
> > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, shafiq013@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Ejazur
> > > > >
> > > > > I regret for a late response
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe in your admission and I also agree with you that not
> > > enough
> > > > > was done to seek apologies from Pakistan by any Government of
> > > > > Bangladesh, present or past.
> > > > >
> > > > > General Parvaiz Musharraf said something on the subject and it
> may
> > > be
> > > > > close to apology but that was not enough. We ask for and we
> expect
> > a
> > > > > full fledge apology for all the atrocities, irrespective of
> > > different
> > > > > estimations.
> > > > >
> > > > > I again agree with you that a formal estimation could have and
> > > should
> > > > > have been done by the then immediate Government. Hey! I am not
> > > > defending
> > > > > anybody but may be the then Government had lot of other problems
> > for
> > > a
> > > > > war ravaged country. Government priorities did change after the
> > 1975
> > > > > changeover. Today, it will be very unfortunate if AL (or for
> that
> > > > matter
> > > > > BNP) uses these figures for petty personal or political gains.
> As
> > > > > regretfully, no census was done immediately after 1971, the
> > official
> > > > > Bangladesh stand remains for 3 million dead.
> > > > >
> > > > > I wish I could touch other points you raised in your posting
> like
> > > > > corruption etc., but I should leave it for some other time and
> > > > > opportunity.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Shafiq
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "ezajur" Ezajur@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Shafiq
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, I am not trying to undermine a crime against humanity. I
> > have
> > > > > > already called the murders of 1971 a crime against humanity
> and
> > > > > > genocide. I would have to be a cannibal to side with willful
> > mass
> > > > > murder
> > > > > > and rape. I hope you do not think of me so poorly - I could
> > never
> > > > > assume
> > > > > > such a thing about you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I do not care for what the Pakistanis think as they were the
> > > > > aggressors.
> > > > > > I hardly ever mention that country. Of course they cover up
> even
> > > > their
> > > > > > own estimate of the true numbers. The number of 28,000 killed
> in
> > > The
> > > > > > Hamoodur Report must be most grossly understated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But our victims deserve reparations, admission and apologies
> > from
> > > > > > Pakistan. Why should Pakistan get away with it just because we
> > > > cannot
> > > > > > demand or present our case properly?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I ask because I don't know what the correct figure is and
> > because
> > > > > > the number has been made sacred by the very same people (BNP
> and
> > > AL)
> > > > > who
> > > > > > have brought our country to its current condition. And I don't
> > > > > > believe them. And I don't buy it when those who are the most
> > > senior
> > > > > > defenders of this number defend it only with a calculator and
> > > > > simplistic
> > > > > > assumptions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I apologise for using the word exaggeration as it offends you.
> > It
> > > > was
> > > > > > not my intention. But the political classes of my country are
> > > prone
> > > > to
> > > > > > exaggeration, sometimes out of sentimentality (I am one of
> them
> > > > too!)
> > > > > > and sometimes for political gain (unforgiveable).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Come on Shafiq. Let us not pick on the limitations of mere
> > words.
> > > > What
> > > > > > do you think we get our facts right on? The environment? The
> > > > > population?
> > > > > > The stock market manipulators? The BDR tragedy? Smuggling?
> Black
> > > > > money?
> > > > > > The deals that our politicians have made? The deals our
> > > businessmen
> > > > > > make? The deals our Army makes? Corruption?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The electorate does not get the facts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is not enough, for me at least, that a Pakistani soldier,
> > > however
> > > > > > honest, said this and that a UN report, informed by any of our
> > > > > > governments, said that. What about my country? Why can't my
> > > country
> > > > > > get even this most important subject right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am facing a lot of abuse (not from you) but that's okay. I'm
> > > > > > nobody and I can easily be ignored. But I think the next
> > > generation
> > > > > > must, and will, question everything. If they do then we stand
> a
> > > > > fighting
> > > > > > chance of building the nation that so many gave their lives
> for
> > in
> > > > > 1971.
> > > > > > God knows those who followed them have made an almighty mess
> of
> > > it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is more about us and the way we conduct ourselves than
> > about
> > > > the
> > > > > > Pakistanis. Just because we hate the Pakistanis does not mean
> > that
> > > > we
> > > > > > cannot establish, with the best of our efforts, a formal
> > estimate
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > number of our countrymen murdered in 1971. But we are simply
> > happy
> > > > > that
> > > > > > Time and Newsweek gave some estimates. The best estimate may
> > turn
> > > > out
> > > > > to
> > > > > > be 5 millions. And it may turn out to be 1 million
> (personally,
> > I
> > > > > > don't think it can be less). We should be serious about the
> > number
> > > > > > of our dead.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Life has always been cheap in our country. The truth has
> always
> > > been
> > > > > > manipulated. We should try to change that. Let's count our
> dead.
> > > > > > Everybody else tries.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You see Shafiq, sometimes no matter what we say, people see
> what
> > > > they
> > > > > > want to see. I'm sure I am guilty of the same sometimes. I am
> > not
> > > a
> > > > > > freak of nature (you did not say it, I am saying it). My
> > opinions
> > > > and
> > > > > my
> > > > > > politics are fuelled by the people I meet everyday, of every
> age
> > > and
> > > > > > class. I find disagreement only with those who are locked into
> a
> > > > > > political party – be it BNP, AL, JP or JI. And, in my life
> > > > > > experience, such locked people are in the vocal minority –
> > not
> > > > the
> > > > > > silent majority.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have no reason to think I am better informed or even of
> > sounder
> > > > mind
> > > > > > than you. But if I differ with anyone it is only, in essence,
> > > > because
> > > > > > they are not protesting against our politics. Perhaps they do
> > and
> > > I
> > > > > > could be wrong in a particular case. But I have found people
> > > choose
> > > > to
> > > > > > be silent regarding their party no matter how bad things might
> > be.
> > > > > > That's why there is no meaningful reform in the country.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I often choose to be obnoxious because I find the silence of
> > those
> > > > who
> > > > > > are better informed and better placed than me to be obnoxious.
> > Its
> > > > > good
> > > > > > to hear their voice, no matter how hostile.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have written to you sincerely. Even though we may continue
> to
> > > > differ
> > > > > I
> > > > > > hope you will consider my failings to be those of a sincere
> man.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best wishes
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ezajur Rahman
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kuwait
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, shafiq013@ wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You are still trying to undermine the crime committed
> against
> > > > > > humanity.
> > > > > > > The 3 million figures is an estimate and are not only
> > mentioned
> > > in
> > > > > > some
> > > > > > > UN reports but even in some Pakistani reports. You call it
> an
> > > > > > > exaggeration absolutely like the official Pakistani stand.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Knowing Pakistani mentality, there is no reason to believe
> > this
> > > > > > > "exaggerated figure" being the reason for no reparations or
> > > > > > > apologies from Pakistan. Let them apologies even for 28
> > > thousands,
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > estimate were killed per Hamoodur Rahman commission report.
> > > Again,
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > also is an estimate only. Do you believe this being the
> > correct
> > > > > > figure?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And why you believe that 3 million figure is exaggerated
> like
> > > the
> > > > > > > official Pakistani stand? Then what is the correct figure?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It was nice to know that we never get our facts right on
> > > anything.
> > > > > > What
> > > > > > > it is? News or your desire
> > > > > > > Shafiq
> > > > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "ezajur" Ezajur@ wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The reason why the number 3 million is important is that
> > this
> > > > > number
> > > > > > > is symbolic of our societal and politcal failures. If we can
> > lie
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > this number we can lie about anything. A nation that
> > exaggerates
> > > > its
> > > > > > > dead for political gain and dramatic effect, and does not
> > count
> > > > its
> > > > > > > dead, is doomed to rotteness.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And are we in a rotten condition or not?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Many good people are sleeping or have given up hope or
> have
> > > been
> > > > > > > beaten into submission. If yelling about this 3 million
> annoys
> > > > them
> > > > > > > enough to make them yell back - then thats just fine!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The fact is that there were crimes against humanity. Of
> > course
> > > > > this
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > true. The fact also is that the exaggeration of those crimes
> > > > > actually
> > > > > > > diminshes the crimes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Which is why we have no reparations or apologies from
> > > Pakistan.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We never get our facts right on anything.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, shafiq013@ wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What a logic. You said "There was killing by Pakistani
> > army
> > > as
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > were tried to protect Pakistan and that's fact."
> > Gentleman,
> > > > Can
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > explain why women were raped? Which Pakistan they were
> > > trying
> > > > to
> > > > > > > protect
> > > > > > > > > by raping women? Why there was loot and arson? Was this
> > > > another
> > > > > > > attempt
> > > > > > > > > to protect Pakistan? Yes, we killed Urdu speaker after
> the
> > > war
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > that's a fact. But if you were old enough to see the war
> > in
> > > > > 1971,
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > should be able to answer why. The story of the Balouch
> > > > Pakistani
> > > > > > > soldier
> > > > > > > > > is just a story. Even at present there are not many
> > Balouchs
> > > > in
> > > > > > > Pakistan
> > > > > > > > > Army not to talk about in 1971. Yes, there was a Balouch
> > > > > regiment
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > was occupied by Punjabis mostly. And Ziaur Rahman was
> not
> > > > > setting
> > > > > > up
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > radio at Kalurghat in the middle of war. And above
> > > everything,
> > > > a
> > > > > > > single
> > > > > > > > > soldier cannot help you in this situation like this even
> > if
> > > he
> > > > > > wants
> > > > > > > to.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The famous Hamoodur Rahamn commission said around 28-30
> > > > thousand
> > > > > > > > > Bengalis were killed. The official Bangladeshi stand is
> > that
> > > 3
> > > > > > > million
> > > > > > > > > Bengalis were killed. The fact is that there were crimes
> > > > against
> > > > > > > > > humanity. Don't try to exploit the number of people
> killed
> > > to
> > > > > > dilute
> > > > > > > > > the issue. The biggest truth of 1971 is 16th December.
> > > Nothing
> > > > > > less
> > > > > > > > > nothing more. Sorry you did not like it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Shafiq
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "ezajur" <Ezajur@>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Of course the Pakistanis committed massacres - enough
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > word
> > > > > > > > > genocide to be used. And they killed many more Bengalis
> > than
> > > > > vice
> > > > > > > versa.
> > > > > > > > > The issues are:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1. Were 3 million Bengalis killed?
> > > > > > > > > > 2. How has this number been exploited by polictians?
> > > > > > > > > > 3. What have the lies about 1971 - by BNP and AL -
> cost
> > > our
> > > > > > > country
> > > > > > > > > since 1971?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Jamil Ahmed
> > jamil_dhaka@
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I was old enough to see the war in 1971. There was
> > > killing
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > Pakistani army as they were tried to protect Pakistan
> and
> > > > that's
> > > > > > > fact.
> > > > > > > > > We killed Urdu speaker after the war and that's a fact.
> In
> > a
> > > > > war,
> > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > the general people who gives a lot of
> sacrifice.There
> > > > story
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > never told. Just to add one fact that I had seen is that
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > middle
> > > > > > > > > of war as Ziaur Rahman was setting up the radio at Kalur
> > > ghat
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > Pakistani army took over our area. Obviously we all are
> > > > shaken,
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > Pakistani solder told us not to be afraid, and added
> that
> > he
> > > > is
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > baluch. I am sure there is lotof stories like that and
> > those
> > > > > will
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > covered by weight of atrocities of other Pak solders.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Â
> > > > > > > > > > > Â
> > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 5/14/11, Dr. M. Mohsin Ali drmohsinali@
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > From: Dr. M. Mohsin Ali drmohsinali@
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] A response to Myth-busting of
> > > > Bangladesh
> > > > > > war
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > 1971 by Sarmila Bose in english.aljazeera.net
> > > > > > > > > > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, May 14, 2011, 12:58 PM
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > SO, MR. EZAJUR, YOU BELIEVE THE STORY OF MS.
> SHARMILA
> > > BOSE
> > > > > > WHICH
> > > > > > > IS
> > > > > > > > > THE STORY OF THE PAKISTANI MILITARY ABOUT OUR GREAT
> > > LIBERATION
> > > > > > WAR.
> > > > > > > YOU
> > > > > > > > > ARE SIGNING WITH THE PAKISTANIS AND THE RAZAKARS. THAT'S
> > WHY
> > > > YOU
> > > > > > > NEVER
> > > > > > > > > LIKED SHEIKH MUJIB AS HE BROKE YOUR BELAOVED PAKISTAN.
> > THAT
> > > IS
> > > > > > YOUR
> > > > > > > REAL
> > > > > > > > > FACE.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 5/14/11, ezajur Ezajur@ wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > From: ezajur Ezajur@
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: A response to Myth-busting
> of
> > > > > > Bangladesh
> > > > > > > war
> > > > > > > > > of 1971 by Sarmila Bose in english.aljazeera.net
> > > > > > > > > > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, May 14, 2011, 10:25 AM
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Â
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sarmila Bose has made a stand against the myth of
> 1971
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > dominant post war narrative and those who have profited
> > from
> > > > it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The myth of 1971 is that 3 million people Bengalis
> > were
> > > > > > > > > exterminated. As proven by the lack of any meaningful
> > effort
> > > > to
> > > > > > > measure
> > > > > > > > > the number of deaths by successive governments of
> > > Bangladesh.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The dominant narrative of 1971 has been that the
> myth
> > of
> > > > > 1971
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > real and that those who shout about it are those who are
> > fit
> > > > to
> > > > > > > govern
> > > > > > > > > best. As proven by the behaviour of every successive
> > > > government.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Those who have profited are those who have publicly
> > > > promoted
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > myth and privately benefitted with power and money. As
> > > proven
> > > > by
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > behaviour of every successive government.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What Farida cannot abide is that anyone can question
> > > > > anything
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > 1971 because it is the myth of 1971 that, in her mind,
> > > > empowers
> > > > > > her
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > her politics, to focus on what they want, ignore what
> they
> > > > want
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > rule
> > > > > > > > > as they see fit. Screw them.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The creation of the myth of 1971 was the first step
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > > ruination
> > > > > > > > > of our country. We have been on our knees ever since.
> > > Bridges
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > export
> > > > > > > > > earnings cannot measure our people. Our people deserve
> > > better.
> > > > > And
> > > > > > > as AL
> > > > > > > > > and BNP and Jammat relish the orgy of their gross self
> > > > > indulgence
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > ignore the future at the nation's peril.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If BNP of JI thugs commit rape, murder and
> extortion,
> > as
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > do,
> > > > > > > > > the Farida Majids of our country will protest. If AL
> thugs
> > > > > commit
> > > > > > > rape,
> > > > > > > > > murder and extortion, as they do, the Farida Majids of
> our
> > > > > country
> > > > > > > keep
> > > > > > > > > quiet. There are Farida Majids in BNP and JI.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Screw all these bloody hypocrites. They believe they
> > are
> > > > > true
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > their dead leader, their dead father and their dead
> > values.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > They, and the rest of us, will soon enough return to
> > the
> > > > > soil
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > country, in which lies buried the truth and best spirit
> of
> > > our
> > > > > > > people
> > > > > > > > > and our beautiful country.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Just look at the condition of our country! You know
> > why
> > > > > there
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > class war in Bangladesh? You know know why our
> guitarists
> > > > can't
> > > > > > bend
> > > > > > > > > their knees?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > May our soil accept our flesh and bones as payment
> for
> > > the
> > > > > > truth
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > may that truth embrace the next generation.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > To all hypocrites - ££££ you!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Ezajur Rahman
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Its so loud, inside in my head
> > > > > > > > > > > With words that I should have said.
> > > > > > > > > > > As I drown in my regrets
> > > > > > > > > > > I can't take back
> > > > > > > > > > > the words I never said.
> > > > > > > > > > > Lupe Fiasco
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Farida Majid
> > > > > <farida_majid@>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/05/20115983958114219.h\
> \
> > \
> > > \
> > > > \
> > > > > \
> > > > > > \
> > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > tml
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Bangladesh war of 1971 Myth-busting Piece by
> Sarmila
> > > > Bose
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > Al
> > > > > > > > > Jazeera.net :
> > > > > > > > > > > > Farida Majid
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Here we have Sarmila Bose whining on and on
> against
> > > the
> > > > > > > `dominant
> > > > > > > > > narrative' and pushing her insubstantial book, Dead
> > > Reckoning:
> > > > > > > Memories
> > > > > > > > > of the 1971 Bangladesh War, as a scholarly work that is
> > > meant
> > > > to
> > > > > > > bust
> > > > > > > > > the myth of Bangladesh war of independence in 1971. Her
> > > book's
> > > > > > spin
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > strung around a few instances of atrocities committed by
> > > Mukti
> > > > > > > fighters
> > > > > > > > > upon non-Bengali collaborators of Pakistan at the time.
> No
> > > one
> > > > > > > denies
> > > > > > > > > those cruel acts of retaliation. All wars are cruel and
> > > ugly.
> > > > > But
> > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > themselves those acts, or her other fieldwork denying
> > > > widespread
> > > > > > > rape
> > > > > > > > > and murder (questioning the occurrence of any rape by
> > > > Pakistani
> > > > > > > soldiers
> > > > > > > > > since she could not get figures of exact date, time and
> > > place
> > > > of
> > > > > > > each
> > > > > > > > > sexual assault), have not been able to disprove any of
> the
> > > > > > > well-known
> > > > > > > > > incidences of crimes against humanity committed by an
> > > > uniformed,
> > > > > > > fully
> > > > > > > > > equipped with modern arms and ammunition, professionally
> > > > trained
> > > > > > > > > Pakistani army and its Bengali collaborators in 1971. I
> > > > > > > > > > > doubt whether any of the `uncomfortable truth' she
> has
> > > > > > unearthed
> > > > > > > > > could be presented at a War Crimes Tribunal as legal
> > defense
> > > > > > against
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > charges brought by the Prosecution at such a Tribunal.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The harder Sarmila Bose whines about the `dominant
> > > > > > narrative'
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > fuzzier gets her rationale for wanting to debunk it. Her
> > > > citing
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > example of Lara Logan, the CBS correspondent haplessly
> > > caught
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > melee of Tahrir Square in Cairo in the spring uprising
> of
> > > > 2011,
> > > > > > > shows to
> > > > > > > > > what pathetic extent Bose lacks sympathy and imagination
> > in
> > > > > > > assessing
> > > > > > > > > the overall reality of people's struggle for freedom
> from
> > > > > > > oppression.
> > > > > > > > > Such struggles in the annals of history are messy, never
> > > > > > > picture-book
> > > > > > > > > perfect. Sarmila though is unforgiving, and is too
> > > > mean-spirited
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > tolerate "freedom and democracy-loving people rising up
> > > > against
> > > > > > > > > oppressive dictators." She has to take up the arms of a
> > > > > `scholarly
> > > > > > > > > study' to bust the myth!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What is the 'myth' that she is so anxious to bust?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Is genocide in Bangladesh, 1971, a myth?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If it is a myth then are we to understand, after
> Ms
> > > > Bose's
> > > > > > > > > so-called `research' and report, that genocide did not
> > take
> > > > > place
> > > > > > at
> > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > in 1971 in the then East Pakistan? The "dominant
> > narrative"
> > > is
> > > > > all
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > partisan exaggeration and no one in the international
> > > > community
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > her
> > > > > > > > > could detect the "uncomfortable truth" in all these 40
> > > years.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Who does she mean by those "who have profited for
> so
> > > > long
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > mythologising the history of 1971"?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Does she mean the people of Bangladesh, the
> world's
> > > > eighth
> > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > populous nation? Does `profit' mean gaining the
> > sovereignty
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > independence as a nation?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If so, then all nations who have had to fight for
> > > > > > independence
> > > > > > > > > from a colonized condition ought to be labeled as having
> > > > > "profited
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > mythologizing history." And that would include United
> > States
> > > > of
> > > > > > > America.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Go tell an American that the chronicles of wars
> and
> > > > > battles
> > > > > > > fought
> > > > > > > > > in the American War of Independence during 1775-1783 are
> > all
> > > > > > > > > mythologised history, and hence a `dominant narrative',
> a
> > > myth
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > in dire need of busting!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Let us remind ourselves of the announcement of
> Gen.
> > > > Yahya
> > > > > > Khan
> > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > a radio interview at the launching of the Operation
> > > > Searchlight
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > March, 1971 in East Pakistan: "We will kill three
> million
> > of
> > > > > them,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > they will eat out of our hands!" The number â€"3
> > million
> > > > > > â€"
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > immaterial, though admittedly there is an irresolvable
> > > > argument
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > swirls around it. What is legally relevant here,
> however,
> > is
> > > > the
> > > > > > > clear
> > > > > > > > > expression of goal and intent to commit genocide by Pak
> > > > military
> > > > > > > > > apparatus in East Pakistan.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > New evidences are emerging, not just from the
> > victims
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > war
> > > > > > > > > crimes of 1971, but from the perpetrators themselves.
> Eye
> > > > > > witnesses
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > personal encounters from among the Pakistani military
> > > > personnel
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > coming up with accounts of General Niazi, General Rao
> > Farman
> > > > > Ali,
> > > > > > et
> > > > > > > al,
> > > > > > > > > exhibiting fierce anti-Bengali racism that underscored
> > > > > activities
> > > > > > > > > against unarmed, unthreatening civilians. Such
> activities
> > > were
> > > > > > > regarded
> > > > > > > > > as reprehensive by even the soldiers who carried out the
> > > > orders
> > > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > > they violated the rules and norms of engagement in
> > warfare.
> > > > > > Several
> > > > > > > > > books have come out over the years by various Pakistani
> > army
> > > > > > > personnel
> > > > > > > > > including one by the infamous General Niazi. They are
> all
> > > > > replete
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > quotations and records of utter racial contempt for the
> > > > Bengalis
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > East
> > > > > > > > > Pakistan on the part of top brass military officers in
> the
> > > > > > Pakistani
> > > > > > > > > army who wanted at least a partial destruction of the
> > whole
> > > > race
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > Bengalis as a punitive measure for their rebellion.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > We can then proceed to take a peek at the
> following
> > U.
> > > > N.
> > > > > > > > > Convetion:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Excerpt from the Convention on the Prevention and
> > > > > Punishment
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > Genocide (For full text click here)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > "Article II: In the present Convention, genocide
> > means
> > > > any
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > following acts committed with intent to destroy, in
> whole
> > or
> > > > in
> > > > > > > part, a
> > > > > > > > > national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > (a) Killing members of the group;
> > > > > > > > > > > > (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to
> members
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > group;
> > > > > > > > > > > > (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group
> conditions
> > of
> > > > > life
> > > > > > > > > calculated to bring about its physical destruction in
> > whole
> > > or
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > part;
> > > > > > > > > > > > (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births
> > > within
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > group;
> > > > > > > > > > > > (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to
> > > > another
> > > > > > > group.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Article III: The following acts shall be
> punishable:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > (a) Genocide;
> > > > > > > > > > > > (b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
> > > > > > > > > > > > (c) Direct and public incitement to commit
> genocide;
> > > > > > > > > > > > (d) Attempt to commit genocide;
> > > > > > > > > > > > (e) Complicity in genocide. "
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Let us all work for peace as best as each of us
> can.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Salutes!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Farida Majid
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
__._,_.___
