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Tuesday, November 22, 2011

[ALOCHONA] Mujib's confusion on Bangladeshi deaths



Mujib's confusion on Bangladeshi deaths


Serajur Rahman
Retired deputy head, BBC Bengali Service

On 8 January 1972 I was the first Bangladeshi to meet independence leader Sheikh Mujibur Rahman after his release from Pakistan. He was brought from Heathrow to Claridge's by the Indian high commissioner Apa Bhai Panth, and I arrived there almost immediately.

Mujib was puzzled to be addressed as "your excellency" by Mr Panth. He was surprised, almost shocked, when I explained to him that Bangladesh had been liberated and he was elected president in his absence. Apparently he arrived in London under the impression that East Pakistanis had been granted the full regional autonomy for which he had been campaigning. During the day I and others gave him the full picture of the war. I explained that no accurate figure of the casualties was available but our estimate, based on information from various sources, was that up to "three lakh" (300,000) died in the conflict.

To my surprise and horror he told David Frost later that "three millions of my people" were killed by the Pakistanis. Whether he mistranslated "lakh" as "million" or his confused state of mind was responsible I don't know, but many Bangladeshis still believe a figure of three million is unrealistic and incredible.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/24/mujib-confusion-on-bangladeshi-deaths



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[ALOCHONA] QramTians, Ismaeelis & Islamic Chronology

Background:

.

In days of 'Ummaeeyah' dynasty that was started by Amir Moo Aawiyah, they were accused of living in lap of pleasure too lavishly with plenty of Slaves at their service compared to the first 4 Caliphs but when Abbasi took over, their that lavish living was compared to that of Paupers. Abbasi had lived in huge palaces, with a lot more Slaves, eating in Gold Plates and Bowls, Professional Musicians playing and singing as world's most beautiful Slave Girls danced. This had turned off a lot of Moslim Scholars, not only Ismaeelis, who had later branched out into Qramatian, Fatimid and other Sects. The Scholars, who spoke out against them were punished or executed for treason.

Management of Empire was weak and some Governors had started declaring themselves independent of Caliph. Following is chronology of events from 755 to 999 A.D. and events marked with '*' are revolts against Abbasi Dynasty.

.

755: 

* Revolt of Abdullah b Ali. MUrder of Abu Muslim. Sunbadh revolt in Khurasan (Afghanistan and Eastern Iran).

756:

* Abdul Rahman founds the Umayyad state in Spain.

762:

* Shia revolt under Muhammad (Nafs uz Zakia) and Ibrahim.

763:

* Defeat of the Abbasids in Spain. Foundation of Baghdad.

767:

* Ismaeeli Khariji state set up by Ibn Madrar at Sijilmasa. Ustad Sees revolt in Khurasan.

772:

* Battle of Janbi in North Africa. Rustamid. state set up in Morocco.

775:

Death or the Abbasid Caliph Mansur, Accession of Mahdi.

777:

Battle of Saragossa in Spain fought by Non Caliph Moslims.

785:

Death of the Caliph Mahdi. Accession of Hadi.

786:

Death of Hadi. Accession of Harun ur Rashid.

788:

* Idrisid state set up in the Maghrib (Morocco, Tunisia etc). Death of Abdul Rahman of Spain, and accession of Hisham.

792:

Invasion of South France by Non Caliph Moslims.

796:

Death of Hisham in Spain; accession of al Hakam.

799:

* Start of suppression of the revolts of the Khazars (Kurd & Turkman) until Ninth century

800:

* The Aghlabid rule is established in North Africa.

803:

Downfall of the Barmakids. Execution of Jafar Barmki by Caliph Haroonur Rashid.

805:

Campaigns against the Byzantines with the help of Non Moslim Turk Slaves. Capture of the islands of Rhodes and Cypress.

809:

Death of Harun ur Rashid. Accession of Amin.

814:

Civil war between Amin and Mamun. Amin killed and Mamun becomes the Caliph.

815:

* Shia revolt under Ibn Tuba Tabs.

816:

* Shia revolt in Makkah; Harsama quells the revolt. In Spain the Umayyads capture the island of Corsica.

817:

Harsama killed.

818:

The Umayyads of Spain capture the islands of Izira, Majorica, and Sardinia.

819:

Mamun comes to Baghdad.

820:

* Tahir establishes the rule of the Tahirids in Khurasan.

822:

Death of Al Hakam in Spain; accession of Abdul Rahman. II.

823:

Death of Tahir in Khurasan. Accession of Talha and his deposition. Accession of Abdullah b Tahir.

827:

Mamun declares the Mutazila creed as the state religion.

833:

Death of Mamun. Accession of Mutasim.

836:

Mutasim shifts the capital to Samarra.

837:

* Revolt of the Jats.

838:

* Revolt of Babek in Azarbaijan suppressed.

839:

* Revolt of Maziar in Tabaristan. The Non Caliph following Muslims occupy South Italy. Capture of the city of Messina in Sicily.

842:

Death of Mutasim, accession of Wasiq.

843:

* Revolts of the Arabs.

847:

Death of Wasiq, accession of Mutawakkil.

850:

Mutawakkil restores orthodoxy.

849:

Death of the Tahirid ruler Abdullah b Tahir; accession of Tahir II.

852:

Death of Abdur Rahman II of Spain;. accession of Muhammad I.

856:

* Umar b Abdul Aziz founds the Habbarid rule in Sind.

858:

Mutawakkil founds the town of Jafariya.

860:

* Ahmad founds the Samanid rule in Transoxiana.

861:

Murder of the Abbasid Caliph Mutawakkil; accession of Muntasir.

862:

Muntasir poisoned to death; accession of Mutasin.

864:

* Zaidi state established in Tabaristan by Hasan b Zaid.

866:

Caliph Mutasim flees from Samarra, his depostion and accession of Mutaaz.

867:

* Yaqub b Layth founds the Saffarid rule in Sistan (Iran).

868:

* Ahmad b Tulun founds the Tulunid rule in Egypt.

869:

The Abbasid Caliph Mutaaz forced to abdicate, his death and accession of Muhtadi.

870:

* Turk Immigrants from Central Asia in Baghdad revolt against Muhtadi, his death and accession of Mutamid.

873:

Tahirid rule extinguished.

874:

* Zanj revolt in South Iraq. Death of the Samanid ruler Ahmad, accession of Nasr.

877:

Death of Yaqubb Layth in Sistan, accession of Amr b Layth.

885:

Death of Ahmad b Tulun in Egypt, accession of Khamar- wiyiah.

866:

Death of Muhammad I the Umayyad ruler of Spain, accession of Munzir. Death of Abdullah b Umar the Habbari ruler of Sind.

888:

Death of Munzir the Umayyad ruler of Spain, accession of Abbullah.

891:

* The Qarmatian state established at Bahrain.

892:

Death of the Samanid ruler Nasr, accession of Ismail.

894:

* The Rustamids become the vassals of Moslim Spain.

896:

Death of the Tulunid ruler Khamarwiyiah; accession of Abul Asakir Jaish.

897:

Assassination of Abul Asakir Jaish; accession of Abu Musa Harun.

898:

* Qarmatians sack Basra. Caliph became a puppet of Qaramtians.

902:

Death of the Abbasid Caliph Muktafi; death of the Saffarid ruler Amr.

903:

Assassination of the Qarmatian ruler Abu Said; accession of Abu Tahir.

905:

* Abdullah b Hamdan founds the Hamdanid rule in Mosul and Jazira. End of the Tulunid rule in Egypt.

907:

Death of the Abbasid puppet Caliph Muktafi; accession of puppet Caliph Muqtadir.

908:

End of the Saffarid rule, annexation of their territories by the Samanids.

909:

* Ubaidullah overthrows the Aghlablds and founds the Fatimid rule in North Africa.

912:

Death of the Umayyad Amir Abdullah in Spain, accession of Abdur Rahman III.

913:

Assassination of the Samanid ruler Ahmad II, accession of Nasr II.

928:

* Mardawij b Ziyar founds the Ziyarid rule in Tabaristan.

929:

* Qarmatians sack Makkah, demolish Kaaba and carry away the Black Stone from the Holy Kaaba. In Spain, Abdur Rahman III declares himself as the Caliph because there was no real Caliph left in Baghdad.

931:

Deposition and restoration of the Abbasid Caliph Muqtadir. Death of the Qarmatian ruler Abu Tahir; accession of Abu Mansur.

932:

Death of the Abbasid Caliph Muqtadir; accession of Al Qahir.

934:

Deposition of the Abbasid Caliph Al Qahir; accession of Ar Radi. Death of the Fatimid Caliph Ubaidullah ; accession of Al Qaim.

935:

* Assassination of the Ziyarid ruler Mardawij; accession of Washimgir. Death of Hamdanid ruler Abdullah b Hamdan accession of Nasir ud Daula.

936:

* By coup Ibn Raiq becomes the Amir ul Umara.

938:

* By another coup power at Baghdad is captured by Bajkam.

940:

Death of the Abbasid puppet Caliph Ar Radi, accession of Muttaqi.

941:

Assassination of Bajkam, capture of power by Kurtakin.

942:

* Ibn Raiq recaptures power.

943:

* Al Baeidi captures power. The Abbasid Caliph Muttaqi is forced to seek refuge with the Hamdanids. Sail ud Daula captures power at Baghdad and the Caliph returns to' Baghdad. Power is captured by Tuzun and Sail ud Daula retires' to Mosul. Death of the Samanid ruler Nasr II, accession of Nuh.

944:

* Muttaqi is blinded and deposed, accession of Mustakafi.

945:

* Death of Tuzun. Shirzad becomes Amir ul Umra. The Buwayhids capture power. Deposition of the Abbasid Caliph Mustakafi.

946:

Death of the Fatimid Caliph A1 Qaim. accession of Mansur. Death of the Ikhshid ruler Muhammad b Tughj, accession of Abul' Qasim Ungur.

951:

The Qarnaatiana restore the Black Stone to the Holy Kaaba.

954:

Death of the Sasanid ruler Nuh, accession of Abdul Malik.

961:

* Death of the Samanid ruler Abdul Malik, accession of Manauf. Alptgin founds the rule of the Ghazanavids. Death of the Umayyad Caliph Abdul Rahman III in Spain; accession of Hakam. Death of the Ikhshid ruler Ungur accession of Abul Hasan Ali.

965:

Death of the Qarmatian ruler Abu Mansur; accession of Hasan Azam. Assassination of the Ikhshid ruler Abul Hasan Ali; power captured by Malik Kafur.

967:

Death of the Buwayhid Sultan Muiz ud Daula, accession of Bakhtiar. Death of the Hamdanid ruler Sail ud Daula.

968:

Byzantines occupy Aleppo (Halab, Syria). Death of the Ikhshid ruler Malik Kafur; accession of Abul Fawaris.

969:

* The Ismaeeli Fatimids conquer Egypt.

972:

* Buluggin b Ziri founds the rule of the Zirids Algeria.

973:

* Shia Sunni disturbances in Baghdad; power captured in Baghdad by the Turkish General Subuktgin.

974:

* Abdication of the Abbasid Caliph Al Muttih; accession of At Taii.

975:

Death of the Turk General Subuktgin. Death of the Fatimid Caliph Al Muizz.

976:

* The Buwayhid Sultan Izz ud Daula recaptures power with the help of his cousin Azud ud Daula. Death of the Samanid ruler Mansur, accession of Nuh II. In Spain death of the Umayyad Caliph Hakam, accession of Hisham II.

978:

* Death of the Buwayhid Sultan Izz ud Daula, power captured by Azud ud Daula. The Hamdanids overthrown by the Buwayhids.

979:

* Subkutgin becomes the Amir of Ghazni (Afghanistan).

981:

A Temporary End of the Qarmatian rule at Bahrain.

982:

Death of the- Buwayhid Sultan Azud ud Daula; accession of Samsara ud Daula.

984:

Death of the Zirid ruler Buluggin, accession of Mansur.

986:

The Buwyhid Sultan Samsara ud Daula overthrown by Sharaf ud Daula.

989:

Death of the Buwayhid Sultan Sharaf ud Daula, accession of Baha ud Daula.

991:

Deposition of the Abbasid Caliph At Taii, accession of Al Qadir.

996:

Death of the Zirid ruler Mansur, accession of Nasir ud Daula Badis.

997:

Death of the Samanid ruler Nuh II, accession of Mansur II.

998:

Death of the Samanid ruler Mansur II, accession of Abdul Malik II. Mahmud becomes the Amir of Ghazni (Afghanistan).

999:

End of the Samanids.

.

All the above events are not revolts against Abbasi Dynasty because it hardly existed in some parts of history or their Caliphs were just protege or puppets of some other power. This list does not include the Caliphs, who ruled for very short while and in one case just a half a day before getting assassinated. At one point in history, there were 4 blind or handicapped Beggars on the streets of Baghdad, who were former Abbasi Caliphs.

In such circumstances, Ismaeeli preachers converted a lot of Moslims to their Sect in all Moslim lands and spread everywhere from Morocco to what is now Pakistan. They were later united by man called QraamaT and almost all of them had become Qramtians. 

.

List of independent Kingdoms: 

----------

ISMAEELI:

A branch of Ismaeelis was Fatimid Empire that had expanded quickly under the subsequent Ismaeeli Imāms. Under the Fatimids, Egypt became the center of an empire that included at its peak North Africa, Sicily, Palestine, Syria, the Red Sea coast of Africa, Yemen and the Hejaz. Under the Fatimids, Egypt flourished and developed an extensive trade network in both the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean, which eventually determined the economic course of Egypt during the High Middle Ages.

.

Muknasia Safia Kingdom in Morocco

311H-363H

311H-Moosa bin Ali Alafia Muknasi

341H-Ibraheem bin Moosa

350H-Abdullah bin Ibraheem

360H-Mohammed bin Abdullah


Qaramti's Kingdom in Bahrain & Oman

281H-596H(894-1200AD)= 315 yrs.

Rasulids State in Yemen

629H-858H(1229-1454AD)=229 yrs.


Saadian dynasty in Morocco

917H-1069H:-Saadian Dynasty formed in Morocco.

Safaaria State in Sajistan-Persia

246H-900H-(867-1495AD)=654 yrs.

237H-Yaqub bin Lays Safaari(Shiya) founded Safaaria State in Sajistan.


Safavid in Persia (Shiya's)

905H-1134H. 1500-1722ADThey continuously revolted against the Usman Sultan and spreaded shiyaism in Persia, but they were crushed time to time by the Sultan's until they were totally crushed by the Khilji's.

Safvi Kingdom(shiya)

908H- 1502AD:-Shah Ismaeel-Safvi Kingdom started. Fought with Turks & Uzbuk.

931H- 1525AD:-Shah Tahmasip bin Ismaeel. King Humayun took shelter in his kingdom.

989H- 1581AD:-Shah Ismaeel Sani bin Tahmasip.

994H- 1586AD:-Shah Hamza bin Mohammed.

994H- 1586AD:-Shah Ismaeel Salis.

994H- 1586AD:-Shah Abbas.

1040H-1631AD:-Shah Safi.

1052H-1643AD:-Shah Abbas Sani.

1077H-1667AD:-Shah Sulaiman

1106H-1695AD:-Shah Hussain

1125H-1714AD:-Shah Tahmasip Sani. Khilji& Abdali weakened their kingdom.

1134H-1722AD:-End of Safvi(shiya) kingdom.


Saljuqia Kingdom

Saljuq

Saljuq came from Turkistan to Samarqand, accepted Islam and settled in Jundur. The Turks came to collect tax from muslims as usual. Saljuq said muslims may give tax to Kafir/ Infidel, I cannot tolerate, so muslims with Saljuq fought and got victory. Saljuq gained popularity. Saljuq son Mikaeel was killed and his two sons Tughral Buk & Chughar Buk were brought up by his grand father in a strong Islamic environment

Tughral Buk became the Ruler of Khurasan & Chughar Buk became the Ruler of Marv & Hirat. Both the brother remained unitedly.


SALJUQI KINGDOM IN IRAQ

Tughral Buk

447H-Abbasi Khalifa Qaim be Amrillah called Tughral Buk for help. He helped Khalifa arrested Abdur Rahim Dailmi the revolter.

449H-Khalifa honoured him, crowned him and made him Sultan

He was so happy & obliged that he kissed the hand of Khalifa and respected him.

455H-Tughral Buk & Chughar Buk expired.

Sultan Alap Arsalan bin Chugar Buk

455H-He was also crowned by Khalifa Qaim. He defeated and arrested Roman king Qaisar. Qaisar was freed and he was so much obliged that he married his daughter with Arsalan Shah s/o Alap Arsalan.

Khaqan China was also impressed with him. He also married his daughter to Arsalan Shah.

Neshapur also became like Baghdad. Sultan of different countries use to visit Alap Arsalan. He was killed in 465H.

Nizamul Mulk Tusi was Wazeer of Alap Arsalan.

Sultan Jalaluddin Malik Shah bin Alap Arsalan

465H-Malik Shah became sultan with the effort of Nizamul Mulk Tusi.

He remained wazeer of Malik Shah, and actually he was the ruler.

484H-Malik Shah expired.

Sultan Barkyaraq bin Malik Shah

484H-Became sultan.

Moidul Mulk & Fakhrul Mulk were his wazeer.

Sultan Mohammed bin Malik Shah

496H-Became sultan.

Sultan Mohammed bin Mohammed bin Malik Shah

509H-Sultan during Khalifa Mustarshid billah.

Sultan Tughral bin Mohammed bin Malik Shah

525H-Became sultan after death of his brother.

Sultan Masood bin Malik Shah

529H-Sultan during Khalifa Mustarshid & Muqtadhi billah.

Sultan Malik Shah bin Mahmood bin Mohammed bin Malik Shah

544H-Sultan for 3 months only.

Sultan Mohammed bin Mahmood

544H-He was made sultan after removing his brother.

Sultan Arsalan bin Tughral bin Mohammed bin Malik Shah

551H-He remained fighting with 'Al Maut' fighters and was victorious.

Sultan Tughral bin Arsalan bin Tughral

571H-His death ended Saljuqi kingdom in Iraq.

SALJUQI KINGDOM IN KHURASAN

Sultanus Salateen Sanjar bin Malik Shah

509H-He was brave, kind, intelligent & god fearing sultan. He expired in 552H.

Mahmood Khan Jawahirzada

552H-Ruler of Khurasan. He was blinded and some of his kingdom was taken by Khwarzam Shahi & some by Ghauri. Saljuqi kingdom ended in Khurasan.


SALJUQI KINGDOM IN KIRMAN

Capital:- Hamdan

In the generation of one brother of Sultan Sanjar remained 10 sultan in Kirman one after the other.

1-Sultan Shah

2-Turan Shah

3-Iran Shah

4-Arsalan Shah

5-Mohammed Shah bin Arsalan

6-Tughral Shah

7-Arsalan Shah

8-Tughral Shah

9-Bahram Shah

10-Mohammed Shah bin Bahram

SALJUQI KINGDOM IN ROMAN TERRITORY

Capital:-Qunia/Qausia

1-Sulaiman bin Qaltamash

2-Daud bin Sulaiman

3-Arsalan bin Sulaiman

4-Masood bin Falaj

5-Arsalan bin Masood

6-Ghayasuddin bin Kakhesro

7-Ruknuddin Sulaiman bi Falaj

8- Aesalan bin Sulaiman

9-Azizuddin Kekaus bin Ghyasuddin

10-Alauddin Keqbad bin Ghyasuddin

11-Ghyasuddin Kakhesro bin Alauddin

12-Ruknuddin Salman bin Ghyasuddin

13-Kakhesro bin Ruknuddin

14-Keqbad bin Framruz

Nizamul Mulk Tusi

455-485H:-Wazeer of Sultan Alap Arsalan & Sultan Malik Shah.

Name:-Hassan bin Ali bin Ishaq bin Abbas. Title-Nizamul Mulk.

Age:-

Birth:-408H in Tus

Death:-

Qualities

Nizamul Mulk studied hadees & fiqah.

His classmate was Umar Khayam & Hassan bin Sabah.

He was a good scholar & good ruler.

He built several Madaris,rest houses & bridges.

Siasat nama(political activity) is unique composition written by him.

Jame Nizamia/Nizamia University

He founded Jame Nizamia/Nizamia University in Baghdad in 457H and completed in 459H.

He endowed for the Jame a land giving earning of 30 million/year.

Principal:-Sh.Abu Ishaq Sheerazi

Head Master:-Sh.Abu Nasar Sabagh

The Jame and its teaching was of such a standard that till now its syllabus is famous as

Dars-e-Nizami taught throughout the world.

Architectural Development 159

Covered markets, hospitals and other public buildings.

The qanat system of underground aqueducts and agricultural techniques.


Samania State 261-395H(864-1004AD)

Ismaeel bin Ahmed bin Asad Samani founded the kingdom on

Tibristan-Sajistan-Khurasan-Mazindan-Rai-Isfahan-Ma-wara-un- Nahar.

Capital was Samarqand.

Kings of Samania:-

261H- Ismaeel bin Ahmed:-Capital-Samarqand. He was brave,well mannered,kind & just.

297H- Ahmed bin Ismaeel:-Capital-Bukhara--Brave but immoral. Courtiers killed him.

Ruled for 6 yrs.

303H- Abul Hassan Nasar bin Ahmed:-He was very famous king. Because of his kindness he

was known as Ameer Saeed.

331H- Nuh bin Nasar:- He always had to face the Rulers of Vailum and got victory.

343H- Abdul Malik bin Nuh:- He always had to face the Rulers of Vailum and got victory.

350H- Mansur bin Nuh:- His Commander Alaptageen flew away to Ghazni and his slave

Subuktageen formed his kingdom in Ghazni365H- Nuh bin Mansur:- In his time Addudaulah captured Iraq and Shamsulmal Qabus captured

Jarjan & Tibristan. Bafra Khan-Governor Khurasan captured Ma wara un Nahar but he died

soon. So Nuh again became King of Ma wara un Nahar. Bu Ali became the King of Khurasan

and attacked on Nuh. Nuh with the help of Subuktageen & Mahmood defeated Bu Ali.

387H- Mansur bin Nuh:- The courtiers wanted Mansur to fight with Mahmood but when he refused

the courtiers killed him by piercing hot iron needle in his eyes.

390H- Abdul Malik bin Nuh:- The courtiers compelled Abdul Malik to fight with Mahmood. Abdul

Malik was defeated. He flew to his capital, but it was captured by Ailak Khan of Kashghar.

Abdul Malik was arrested and the Kingdom of Samania ended.

Samania Rule was full of bravery & courage. The society was civilized & prosperous, also made progress in science & technology. The kIng respected & honoured the scholars.

Scholars & Mohaddis

Ibraheem bin Adham Balkhi Ra:- Khalifa of Fuzail bin Ayaz Ra. Great Wali Allah & Mohaddis.

Imam Bukhari Ra:- Imamul Mohaddiseen.

Imam Muslim Ra:- Student of Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal Ra.

Imam Abu Daud Ra :-

Imam Tirmizi Ra

Development & Reforms

263H-Ibne Tulun Masjid-Cairo.


Tuluniya Kingdom in Egypt

257H - 292H

Tulun was a Turk slave presented by Nuh bin Asad Samani-Ruler of Bukhara to Kh. Mamoon.Tuluniya kingdom was uder the rule of Khilafat Abbasia.

Rulers of Tuluniya Kingdom

254H-Ahmed bin Tulun

270H-Khumarvia bin Ahmed

282H-Jaish bin Khumarvia

283H-Haroon bin Khumarvia

-----

Philosophy:


The Qarmatians aimed to build a society based on reason and equality. The state was governed by a council of six with a chief, who was a first among equals. They considered the pilgrimage to Mecca, a superstition and once in control of the Bahraini state they launched raids along the pilgrim routes crossing Arabia. In 906 they ambushed the pilgrim caravan returning from Mecca and massacred 20,000 pilgrims.

(Ref: John Joseph Saunders, A History of Medieval Islam, Routledge 1978 p130)

.

All property within the community was distributed evenly among all initiates. The Qarmatians were organized as an esoteric society but not as a secret one. Their activities were public and openly propagated, but new members had to undergo an initiation ceremony involving seven stages. In an echo of cyclical Mazdean thought, the Qarmatian world view was one where every phenomenon repeated itself in cycles, where every incident was replayed over and over again.

The land they ruled over was well managed economically and was extremely wealthy. Those impoverished or in debt could obtain a loan until they put their affairs in order. No interest was taken on loans, and token lead money was used for all local transactions. The Qarmathian state had a powerful and long-lasting legacy. This is evidenced by a coin known as Tawila, minted around 920 by one of the Qarmathian rulers, and which was still in circulation in Hasa early in the twentieth century.
(Ref: Yitzhak Nakash, Reaching for Power: The Shi'a in the Modern Arab World, Princeton 2007)
.
S U Turkman

[ALOCHONA] Ashura minal Muharram(10th of Muharram)



                    Ashura minal Muharram(10th of Muharram)
 
  The month of Muharramul Haraam is coming soon. This is an honorable month. The 10th day of this month is known as the sacred day of Aashura minal Muharram. A lot of significant events have occurred on this day. As per Hadee's Shareef, to observe Ashura minal Muharram(10th of Muharram) is Ibadat for Muslims. However, the aim of ibadat is to get satisfaction by obeying  the instructions of Allah Pak and Rwa'hmatullil 'Alamin Huzur Pak Swallallahu'Alaihi Wa Sallam. But if the Muharram month is not started accurately, how the Muslims can get such Niamat. So it is the duty of the Saudi government to start every month accurately by sighting the Moon.
Rajarbagh Darbar Shareef, Dhaka
Rajarbag Shareef, Dhaka-1217,BANGLADESH
www.al-ihsan.net;www.al-baiyinaat.net,join at Noorun Alaa Noor in the Paltalk/Beylux


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[mukto-mona] RE: Golam Azam - the Mastermind behind 1971 intellectuals murders and other attrocities !!!!



This is all propaganda. Professor Golam Azam was exonerated from all accusations of crime by the Supreme Court while restoring his Bangladeshi citizenship.

 

Shah Abdul Hannan

 

From: Syed_Aslam3 [mailto:syed.aslam3@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 2:29 AM
To: chottala@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Golam Azam - the Mastermind behind 1971 intellectuals murders and other attrocities !!!!

 

 

Golam Azam - the Albodor Mastermind .......

 

 

Related:

 

THE WAR CRIMINALS IN BANGLADESH

Nov 7, 2010 – Ghulam Azam maintains that he went to Pakistan to participate in the Annual General Meeting of his organization, the Jamaat-e-Islami, but he ...

 Note:  Jamaate Islami organized Al-Bodor Bahini in 1971.Matiur Rahman Nizami was one of the main masterminds and his Islami Chattro Sangha supplied the hardcore caders of Al-Bodor gestapo militia. Jamaat's armed Albodor gestapos committed various attrocities against the emmergence of Bangladesh. The murder of the intellectuals in the begining of December 1971 was the sole act of Al-bodor bahini. The scheme was planned by Jammat and Islami Chattro Sangha's leadership that included Matiur Rahman Nizami,Golam Azam et el.

..........

 

Watch the YouTube videos:

Al-Badr: A pakistani killing squad during the liberation war of Bangladesh in 1971: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jRnekfc9_I&feature=related

AL-BADAR AND JAMAT LEADERS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoC4EhuGU5E&feature=related

Ghulam Azam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ghulam Azam (Bengali: গোলাম আযম) (born 7 November 1922), is a Bangladeshi political leader who is regarded in his country as a war criminal of the Liberation ...

Golam Azam War Criminal

www.ebangladesh.com/2010/.../justice-for-'71-for-a-united-south-asi... Jul 1, 2010 – South Asian Union is perhaps a utopian concept for skeptics in Dhaka, Delhi and Islamabad; but a concept prophetically embraced by those in ...

 

 



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[ALOCHONA] Mujib's confusion on Bangladeshi deaths



Mujib's confusion on Bangladeshi deaths


Serajur Rahman
Retired deputy head, BBC Bengali Service

On 8 January 1972 I was the first Bangladeshi to meet independence leader Sheikh Mujibur Rahman after his release from Pakistan. He was brought from Heathrow to Claridge's by the Indian high commissioner Apa Bhai Panth, and I arrived there almost immediately.

Mujib was puzzled to be addressed as "your excellency" by Mr Panth. He was surprised, almost shocked, when I explained to him that Bangladesh had been liberated and he was elected president in his absence. Apparently he arrived in London under the impression that East Pakistanis had been granted the full regional autonomy for which he had been campaigning. During the day I and others gave him the full picture of the war. I explained that no accurate figure of the casualties was available but our estimate, based on information from various sources, was that up to "three lakh" (300,000) died in the conflict.

To my surprise and horror he told David Frost later that "three millions of my people" were killed by the Pakistanis. Whether he mistranslated "lakh" as "million" or his confused state of mind was responsible I don't know, but many Bangladeshis still believe a figure of three million is unrealistic and incredible.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/24/mujib-confusion-on-bangladeshi-deaths



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Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: [notun_bangladesh] US Astronaut became muslim



Sunita Williams did not convert to Islam.
Its a silly hoax.
Plz see:
From: Mohiuddin Anwar <almuntakim@gmail.com>
To: guhasb@gmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; captchowdhury@yahoo.ca; dug_alumni@yahoogroups.com; vinnomot@yahoogroups.com; aahmed@voanews.com; wthikana@aol.com; thikana@mindspring.com; sonarbangladesh@yahoogroups.com; dahuk <dahuk@yahoogroups.com>; rmuzammel@gmail.com; mohibullah@adamscenter.us; lionbhaia@gmail.com; helala7@yahoo.com; hekmatkarawaez@hotmail.com; news@khabor24.com; news@khabor.com; news@nytimes.com; news4bangla@gmail.com; news@dcexaminers.com; drmohsinali@yahoo.com; rezaul_khan@yahoo.com; ralmansur@gmail.com; reynaldo@sbsba.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 7:45 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: [notun_bangladesh] US Astronaut became muslim
 


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: bristi ahmed <bristyahmad@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:15 AM
Subject: [notun_bangladesh] US Astronaut became muslim
To: "notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com" <notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com>






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Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?



How could you read 'brain' instead of 'inquisitiveness'?  I had enough Jewish friends to know that Shalom meant peace, when was it interrupted here?

Reading more about Islam would not increase my respect for it.  Religion, by nature, is tribal.  Islam being the faith of seventeen percent population of earth, can by no means be called universal except by those who believe in it wholeheartedly.  Those, who believe that Allah was more concerned about a few thousand bedouins than a billion strong Muslims today, do not have any sense of judgement.

In course of time, all religions will be 'caged', not just Islam, about whose extinction, the prophet himself is said to have predicted.

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:24 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 


A final advice, stop using the Jewish 'Shalom' at the end.  Your Muslim brothers could call you an apostate.

>>>>>>>>>>> Despite the myth about my Muslim brothers, no one cared that I use Shalom at the end. It means "Peace" and those who understand the meaning should have NO problem with it. I welcome you to learn and know more about Islam and "Muslim brothers". I think one guy made fun of it and I laughed along.


Islam is a universal religion and anyone ( Muslims or non-Muslims) who want to put it in a cage (Or certain distorted narrative) would be doing something that is "UNFAIR"!!

Basically the word "Shalom" and "Salaam" are the same. I do not consider any human being my "Permanent enemies". So IF any Muslim "Brother" objects to it, I'll have a chat with him.

Breaking false perceptions is a hobby of mine. I enjoy and Islam supports me in bringing people closer to "The Truth". ;-)




Your pint size inquisitiveness is buried deep in religious faith.  If you had read religious literature,e.g., Quran and Hadith, even moderately, your faith would have developed holes.


>>>>>>> "Pint size brain"??? :-)


Guess you cannot argue with the points we discuss, so the name calling. So far pint size brain is working fine to answers concerns you posed. So I'll gave the rest of the brain a little rest. When I meet someone with proper knowledge and courtesy, I'll summon the rest of the brain Inshallah!! :-)



you do not have the aptitude of even a freshman.

>>>>>>>> OK!!


I have read religious literature and kept questioning it UNTIL I found answers for them. So far I am happy, secured and satisfied with answers I have. If a days comes when I have "Holes" in my faith, I'll let you know.

However do understand this process can go both ways. I came to know about people who had "Huge HOLES" in their faith and became an atheist. However after examining their "Faith-Status" (Lack of faith)  they returned to their Maker.

You have been very entertaining. Thank you!!

Shalom!




-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 22, 2011 5:42 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
Mr. Q. Rahman

Your pint size inquisitiveness is buried deep in religious faith.  If you had read religious literature,e.g., Quran and Hadith, even moderately, your faith would have developed holes.    Say about the verse on Abu Lahab, could such hatred be divine?  If it were so, how the person and the prophet could be related by marital alliance?

The problem with you is that graduate course of comparative religion are not meat for a freshman, and you do not have the aptitude of even a freshman.  Please read the holy Quran, along with Bukhari, Tirmizi, Muslim and other hadith.  Also read Tabari, and occasionally read the ex-Muslim critiques.  Zaki Ameeni, Abul Kashem etc. have encyclopedic knowledge on Islam.  The attachment I gave earlier entitled "Prophet of Doom" may also be helpful.  Develop enough intelligence to differentiate between a good and a bad post.

A final advice, stop using the Jewish 'Shalom' at the end.  Your Muslim brothers could call you an apostate.

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 11:29 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
The first biography of the prophet was written over a hundred years after his death by Ibn Ishaque.  I hope you know his name. There is, however, no reason to believe the authenticity of the biography or that of the person.


>>>>>>>>> Help me understand what you are saying. Do you agree with "One scholar" that, prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did not exist? :-)



I have spent more time than many studying religious literature, and am confident that I have more information than these recent net browsers.  The believers in the holiness of their religion may read the attachment.  

>>>>>>>>>> I am glad to hear that you know a lot about religion. I hope your future posts will reflect your deep knowledge of this subject.

I need your help to understand something. Your attachment was the "Qur'an" and we were discussing prophet Muhammad (PBUH). So prophet's life should be part of the hadith texts.

Do let me know HOW do I learn about prophet's life from text of the Qur'an?

Appreciate your kind attention.


Shalom!!

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 20, 2011 9:12 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society? [1 Attachment]

 
[Attachment(s) from Kamal Das included below]
The first biography of the prophet was written over a hundred years after his death by Ibn Ishaque.  I hope you know his name. There is, however, no reason to believe the authenticity of the biography or that of the person. I for one don't need fifteen minutes of fame, neither do the persons I refer to as scholars.  I have spent more time than many studying religious literature, and am confident that I have more information than these recent net browsers.  The believers in the holiness of their religion may read the attachment.  

On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 3:59 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Member M. Rahman,

Member Das was talking about my comments not yours. However I did not call him dumb but I called the question "Dumb". If Jesus, Moses or Muhammad (PBUT) ever existed are asked by people who want to stir up the pot a little. Going after 15 minutes of fame. People who quote these "Media attention hungry" people often do not know enough of these topics but want to "Shake up" discussions or situations.

As I said, I welcome honest questions and critics on any topic (Including religion). However if someone ask if Muhammad bin Abdullah (PBUH) ever existed, it is only FAIR to call that QUESTION dumb. I have not called any member by any names. I think this part was misunderstood. Neither I am interested to relegate our discussions/debate to that level. 

Throwing down absurd comments about the holy prophet's janaja or circumcision ( Who the heck going to verify that???) is a cheap way to get someone agitated. BUT in response all I asked to learn more about "Sources" of such information.

It is interesting to note that, the whole Muslim world never worried about such issues but some of our atheist friends are!!

Which says a lot about the level of desperation.

I still welcome all comments or questions about topics I discuss. ( Recently posted one about Jesus son of Mary and Christianity).

I am not here to preach to people but ONLY to replace wrong/false information with correct information.
====================================================

Being dumb yourself, you see others as dumb.

Member Das,

Hope you understand the I did NOT call you dumb. Rather my comment was directed at the quality of the comment. I do stand by that.

I do not consider myself as scholar but even with my limited knowledge I can EASILY prove to anyone that, prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did exist. The German scholar is also welcome.

Despite our differences of opinions, I enjoy your passion in our discussion.

Shalom!!;-)




-----Original Message-----
From: MUSTAFIZUR RAHMAN <mustafiz84@hotmail.com>
To: Mukto-mona Mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 19, 2011 5:49 am
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
Mr Kamal Das,

I did not call you dumb. But if you are going to read and quote sources who are critics of Islam as you seem to be, then what can be done? You will continue to bring out absurd claims like the "Prophet was not circumcised" in this Forum with the sole intention of maligning this great man !! Detractors and faultfinders of Islam and its Messenger with continue to come up with atrocious claims in the garb of intellect.

Mustafizur Rahman

To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: kamalctgu@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:45:47 &# 43;0600
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
Mr. Rahman

Being dumb yourself, you see others as dumb.  I did not present the question you deem dumb, it is the theory of Professor Sven Kalisch.  He teaches Islamic history and culture at a German University.  You can debate with him if you like.  Apparently, you don't know that after the prophet was missing for days the news spread of his death.  Even Hajrat Umar did not believe it and came with an unscathed sword to the abode of Ayesha where he met Abu Bakr who cooled him down.  Then Abu Bakr and Umar belonged to one group who coerced others into submission to the caliphate of Abu Bakr.  The last sermon had nothing to do with his death.

By the way do you know that the prophet was not even circumcised.  Thus he broke the covenant of Abraham with God.


On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 1:30 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 

Member Das,

No mainstream Muslim scholar agrees with YOUR narratives on Islam or our holy prophet (PBUH). Earlier you presented a dumb question by asking IF the last messenger of God (PBUH) ever existed? I have read many DIFFERENT commentaries and spoken to many scholars and NEVER heard such absurd claims.

Either way, the prophet (PBUH) did die a natural death and last time I checked English speaking world does not label that as "Dubious"!! NO way!!

Before the death of the noble prophet (PBUH) he gave his famous sermon during the last hajj, which was so complete and powerful that, it indicated the end of his work on earth. He started by saying...

"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY....................................

[ Source: Last hajj sermon]

http://soundvision.com/info/hajj/lastsermon.asp

I cannot stop writing on religious issues as long people like yourself come up with ridiculous and false information about Islam. Someone needs to supply correct information about it. That is all I am doing. Earlier, I have supplied books about the noble prophet by world famous scholars from all corners of the globe and NONE of them talks about the "FICTIONAL" topic YOU brought up here ( About janaja). If this was one time mistake, I would have accept it as such. However you keep coming up with WRONG information about Islam!!

Logically it cannot be an accident. It is deliberate and it says a lot about you!!

Mainstream narrative of Islam and the last prophet (PBUH) is well known. The last prophet (PBUH) was probably the most documented human being on the face of the earth. His speeches, practices, ideals, values were preserved by his followers as per his direction.

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/sunnah/


I am unable to see what was so dubious about his death? People were shocked, sad and confused. When a beloved leader dies, it is the natural response from people.

I have given names of books and scholars in an earlier post. If Islam and prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is always in your mind, I invite you to read about him. It would be helpful if you know about the topic you want to critic. ;-)

Shalom!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 17, 2011 5:27 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
If you need the sources on the death of the prophet, you should stop writing on religious issues.  Ask any maulana and find out or read the Cambridge History of Islam, or 'Islam and the West' by Norman Daniel.

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 1:44 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Even the prophet died under dubious conditions and did not get janaja.


>>>>> SOURCES PLEASE???

-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:31 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
If Mr. Mustafizur Rahman does not see that the dominant contemporary religions are based on the geocentric model of the universe, and sees the ancient and medieval periods were not bad periods, no debate is possible.  Nobody can single a period that was good.  As he is a believer in Islam, may I point out that out of the four 'rightly guided' Caliphs, the first one was poisoned to death while the rest were killed. While Omar was bleeding to death, he requested the majlis members not to make his son the Caliph under any condition.  Usman was killed by a group of assassins in the mosque while reading the 'holy' Koran, and Ali was speared to death.  The killers of Usman asked Ali to take over the Caliphate, his dead body was left without a janaja for days.  Even the prophet died under dubious conditions and did not get janaja.  The Shias insist that he was killed by two of his wives, daughters of th e first two Caliphs. 

I am really impressed by the depth of ignorance of these mullahs who are using this forum to spread the 'values' of Islam.

2011/11/14 MUSTAFIZUR RAHMAN <mustafiz84@hotmail.com>
 
Equal opportunity critic to all religions? Why? Why criticize all religions? Medieval period was not a bad period. In English literature this word is at times used in a negative sense. Human progress went through - as the West has categorized it - stages like iron period, bronze period, medieval period etc. Can you single out one period that was bad? If you disbelieve in the very existence of God, that is a different matter. But what will you do with the billions of people who do believe in the existence of a Creator and seek His assistance?

Mustafizur Rahman

To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: qrahman@netscape.net
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:36:52 -0500

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 

You have been sharing orientalist myths about Islam. Modern day scholars do not buy these any more. Such orientalists also spread lies against Hindus as well. Which prompted Swami Vivekananda to visit USA over hundred years ago. He went there to answer to those myths and explain his faith to the west.

Over and over I have asked you to share SOURCES of your info but only got unclear answers. Please clarify your positions or take this opportunity to learn something new.

Peace.


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 13, 2011 8:39 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
I do not spread venom against Islam.  I am an 'equal opportunity' critic to all religions, and every medieval tendency to invoke God as an answer to all problems.   I refer to historical facts when some 'religious' men use this forum to spread Islam.

2011/11/12 MUSTAFIZUR RAHMAN <mustafiz84@hotmail.com>
 
Kamal Das, Jiten Roy etc,

Will you STOP taking advantage of this Forum and refrain from spreading your venom against Islam?

Mustafizur Rahman

To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: kamalctgu@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:07:31 +0600

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
The core message was not convincing enough even to Abu Talib, the mentor and the protector of the prophet.  The message is to obtain 72 houries and 28 gillmans in the afterlife with an everlasting erection.  Even Ibn Sina wondered, how the prophet, being the intelligent man that he was, spread such rubbish.  Then he came up with his own intelligent solution!  Consider the intelligence of the average people of medieval times, and you have the answer.

About the animal sacrifice, it is the practice in many cultures.  The poor animal dies to serve the religion.  In the primitive times, the first  child was to be sacrificed as an expiation to the cardinal sin from which every child is born.  Abraham himself was a butcher in the temple of Melech.  As he was not sure of his fatherhood of his children, given his age and inability to sire any during his life, he exiled Ismael and Hagar to Mecca, and took Isaac to sacrifice as burnt offering to Moloch.  But he changed his mind later and told the Canaanites that God intervened in the last moment.  Abraham was used to telling lies.  Earlier he passed Sarah as his sister to gain material advantages. 

Animal sacrifice has been a common practice across the world. There was no cheaper way to feed people in feasts.  Cow sacrifice by Indian Muslims are intended only to anoy the local Hindus.  Such practice is not the Arabian norm.


On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:48 PM, sentu tikadar <sentu92003@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

You are right these were acts of half educated idiots who do not understand the core message of Islam.
 
What is the core message ?

 What is the core message of Islam?
 
Tolerance to other Faiths? 
 
Deny others' Faiths and indirectly condemn others' Faiths five times a day? And  brain washing five times per day (like advertisement) later the uncivilised indisciplined Beduin forget  Mohammad ?  So much endeavour to be remembered by ppeople just like a politician sex maniac.
 
What is the teaching? Killing people who would not accept his Faith and used the women of the defeated people. Told something good in Mecca and the same thing told in a reversed way in Medina.  He had written( actually by other) a Book copied from other Book (Bible) because he knew he could not write a completely new  Book out of nothing.So he had taken the easiest and ready- made way. Just Copy and relate him with taht Book's men. So intelligent he was. 
 
Just see the Qurbani in Idd? How people can cut throat the cow which he garlanded with flowers? Giving flowers garland means showing respect to it? After showing respect and / or love it is cut. Desert culture has ruined us. It had divided us. It had killed us. It had made us animals from human. That's why Saudi never allows other to follow their religions in open? In Kashmir, In Pakistan, in Bangladesh , even in India (Deganga of West Bengal) temples' deities demolition is a noble job.
 
They don't feel any pity to that cow? In Pakistan some children stay night with the cow or goat putting flower garlands around its neck. In the morning that animal is cut throat? Height of cruelty !!!  This is the culture mid east had given to us. We borrowed the hard religion from desert while we were not the desert people. 
Is this the teaching of real Allah? Giving pain to a living being Allah feels happy? Don't believe that Allah who is biased. Allah is not a democratic fellow? So the believers of that Allah can not be democratic. That's why most of the Allah believers democratic country are failed country. Who will accept Allah he must be ruled with iron hand otherwise he will loose faiths. So many trics Mahammad had understood and apllied. A real dictator of 1400 years ago. 











     
 
 
--- On Thu, 11/10/11, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 10, 2011, 5:47 AM


 
Killing of the Ahmediyas by the followers of Mowdoodi in Pakistan, killing and raping of freedom loving Bengalis in 1971, bombing of mosques to kill innocent Shiites in Pakistan and Iraq and somewhere else----are all these the acts by the secularists?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are right these were acts of half educated idiots who do not understand the core message of Islam.

However atheist people have done more murdering of innocents than any religious people. Stalin, Mao (Of china) etc done their part in killing anyone who had a different point of view.
-----Original Message-----
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 10, 2011 6:37 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
Killing of the Ahmediyas by the followers of Mowdoodi in Pakistan, killing and raping of freedom loving Bengalis in 1971, bombing of mosques to kill innocent Shiites in Pakistan and Iraq and somewhere else----are all these the acts by the secularists?

From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 2:16 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Respected all,
Atheists and secularists (who believe in naturalism and rationalism only and who deny role of religion in public life) are more menace to humanity, morality, civilization as history shows. Most of the wars including first and second great wars were waged by them.
Most of the people of religions are good people. Many of them are misguided by secular political leaders or some ignorant and aggressive religious bigots.
Religious people of all religions should fight these exploiters and stand for humanity, morality and social welfare.
 
Shah Abdul Hannan
 
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jiten Roy
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 6:42 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
 
@Nihar Singh:
 
The true religious people - who are they? Whether they bother anybody or not - is not the issue. The issue is how much is their contribution towards the advancement of the modern society? Are people, who take part in the communal riots or blowup innocent people in the name of religion, any less religious? You may think so - but they don't.
 
@Kamal Das:
The New Testaments does not contain many of the violent verses of the Old Testament means these are not absolute truth. This is the point I am trying to make.
 
Thanks.
 
 
From: nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
Truely religious people dont disturb anyone. On the other hand atheists try to make everyone atheists. That is true menace. Look at darwin he made everyone think that they eveolved from apes. Many jokers believe this to be true.



--- On Mon, 11/7/11, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
To: "Mukto-mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, November 7, 2011, 7:12 PM
Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
I have been asking this question lately to myself. I tried to find the roles and contributions (I mean, real contributions) of religious people in the society that brought us here from the beginning of time. What I envisioned is that - religion played a very insignificant role towards our social, moral, and scientific developments in this world. Most of these developments are made by religiously indifferent people. The religious people mostly deal with and talk about things that are out of this world. As a result, many of these religious people are misfits and menaces in the society.
 
Many argue that religion builds our moral character, and we learn good and bad from religion, etc. etc. I, on the other hand, think – good and bad we learn from our ancestors, and from our own experiences; religion has nothing to do with it. You might ask where our ancestors learned them from, in the first place. They learned good and bad from their ancestors' experiences, so on, and so forth. Most Chinese do not have any religion. When I asked a Chinese man - how most people there learn about good and bad without religion, he told me - they learn them from their elders' wisdoms. That's right; our ancestors transferred their knowledge and wisdom to us. Therefore, I truly believe – this world would have been a much better place without religion. Religions have divided us into many sectarian hateful clans, which are constantly fighting with one another.
 
Many of us believe that religious doctrines and dogmas are heavenly absolute entities. They forget that - many of those doctrines, dogmas, and interpretations have already been modified from the original preaching during emancipation. For example, Old Testament has been replaced by the New Testament, many Quranic interpretations have been changed, and many Vedic/Puranic practices and interpretations have been changed, etc., etc. That means - religious teachings and practices are subject to change with the time, which means they are not so heavenly endowments as we believe them to be. This is a critical point to remember. Those who think otherwise are the menaces in the society.
 
Jiten Roy









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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
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http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190



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