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Wednesday, February 22, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly




Your 'knowledge' on  Islam has been revealed before.  Further revelation may really be unnecessary.

>>>>>>>>>> I only offer correct information when I see blasphemous hateful ideas being spread by ignorant people. Good people (Of faith and without faith) should stand up to originators of those losers who spread FALSE information about others and expect others to treat them with respect.

So in order to make our community and country a better place, I do my part and I invite everyone to join me and make positive contributions towards our people.

Once we stand up against anyone who spread lies and hate, we can leave a better country for our children then how we found it.

Shalom!

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 23, 2012 8:42 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
 
Your 'knowledge' on  Islam has been revealed before.  Further revelation may really be unnecessary.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:34 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Once again, I'll try to replace some wrong information with FACTS here. ...
 
During Hajj, the pilgrims pelt the Devil with three stones.  Or do they really pelt the three 'daughters of Allah' one stone each?

>>>>>>>>> Actually each "Pilgrims" throw many more than "Three" stones. However this "Symbolic" ritual (To honor an incident with prophet Abraham-PBUH) has absolutely NOTHING to with "Daughters of Allah" (Allah does not have sons or daughters!!). It seems like our "Experts" loves to have opinions about Islam and Allah (SWT) but do not have minimum knowledge about these topics.

SBain: I am not sure what the term should be. What a primitive and foolish practice on the part of the smartest species on Earth! Aren't these people insulting the potential of their own intelligence?


>>>>>>>>> It is a symbolic ritual only. We feel we constantly "Work" to keep our "Bibek" (Conscious) active by fighting ill intentions (Provoked by the devil). So those who go for Hajj to purify themselves, they symbolically throw stones to devil to win over such provocations.

Having said that, it may look "Foolish" to those who do not know the concept.

I can't overemphasize for this kind of people, "If you really believe your God is almighty, let him himself punish people who hate him or do not follow him; do not waste your mind and body to establish him. Aren't you doubting his almightiness (your ticket to the hell that you also believe in) by thinking that he needs your help?"


>>>>>>>>>>> Now I see an "Original" questions based on logic (Not driven by hate but seeking knowledge). :-)

According to Islamic philosophy (And also Christian philosophy), God granted us "Free will". Therefore, we have the freedom to obey Him or disobey Him. Our Maker also tells us our path to success in this world will be achieved by following God's wishes.

Allah(SWT) is full of mercy for all His creations. So He blesses all of his creations including those who do not recognize him. The important part is our journey back to "The right path" is ALWAYS open to us.

The discussed rituals are only important for self-purification. Allah is NOT dependent on our actions or prayers.Rituals are there to help ourselves!!

Allah is free of all needs and all dependencies.

If I am hungry and you gave me food, I would naturally give thanks to you. It is in our nature in all cultures.

Similarly our prayers, fasting etc are ways to thank our Maker for all the blessings we received. It creates a natural flow and connects ourselves with the "Source of all bounties".


Now, I want to explain why I post these explanations to this forum.
This is basically my little attempt to remove misunderstanding between people. Lack of knowledge about prominent religions (Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism etc) is obvious. Which gives birth to many crazy theories about different faith communities. It also creates an environment of "Lack of trust" among good people (I think majority of all people are good!).

I welcome any criticism of any religion, I enjoy it more when it is based on facts. Rant based on myth only works against all of us.

I welcome any critic, questions or concern about my faith. Hope we'll be able to make our discussions more meaningful going forward.


Shalom!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 10:26 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly

 
SChakrabarty: "Think about the black stone in Kaaba around which the musollis walk and the practice of throwing stone. Don't you find elements of tribalism in it?"
 
SBain: I am not sure what the term should be. What a primitive and foolish practice on the part of the smartest species on Earth! Aren't these people insulting the potential of their own intelligence?
 
I can't overemphasize for this kind of people, "If you really believe your God is almighty, let him himself punish people who hate him or do not follow him; do not waste your mind and body to establish him. Aren't you doubting his almightiness (your ticket to the hell that you also believe in) by thinking that he needs your help?"
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
 
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly

 
During Hajj, the pilgrims pelt the Devil with three stones.  Or do they really pelt the three 'daughters of Allah' one stone each?

On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 10:15 PM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
If you agree with Joseph Campbell on his opinion that Hinduism is a tribal religion (in its most part-----my addition), you will not say that cow worshipping is silly. 
Worshipping any thing is a matter of faith. What you worship indicates the level of sophistication of your worship. If my grandma believes that a cow is the abode of 33 crore of gods, how would you stop her to worship a cow? That is her faith. His son does not go that far but worships gods, goddesses, and God. There is no basic difference. Differences are superficial. The former is more tribal than the other. 
Think about the black stone in Kaaba around which the musollis walk and the practice of throwing stone. Don't you find elements of tribalism in it?   

Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 5:04 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly

 
KDas: "I find nothing wrong in slaughtering cows in Bangladesh ."
 
SBain: I also find nothing wrong in slaughtering cows in Bangladesh. Not only in Bangladesh, I am sure people like Dr. Das and I do not find anything wrong in slaughtering cows in any country of the world, including India. As I wrote in this forum, I even cook beef in my own kitchen.
 
The point really is, should it be done in an intimidating manner in a public place with utter disrespect or callous indifference for the Hindus? There were occasions in Bangladesh, where cow slaughtering was done in front on an ongoing Hindu religious festival. In fact, the fanaticism and irresponsibility are at such a high level now that the strong stench of rotten blood, flesh, and discards of slaughtered animals lingers in many parts of Dhaka for days, if not weeks, after the Muslim celebration of Eid-ul-Azha.
 
Now, I of course find cow worshiping silly. But do the believers of the silliness of other religions have a basis to say/think that, let alone insult that practice?
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly

 
There is no point to argue with people like Q. A. Rahman, who does not even read Quran regarding the chapters they talk about.  All they do is to click on a website written by another ignorant mullah.  Nowhere in Quran is mentioned that Ismael was taken for sacrifice, though being the elder son, it was his due.  But being illegitimate(born in a woman not married to Abraham), according to their own scripture, he was banished along with his mother to a place far from where Abraham lived.  One cannot both banish and sacrifice a son, besides the contemporary God Moloch/Melech/Malik would not accept an illegitimate son as sacrifice.  Allah(swt) was not the God of Abraham; according to the Old Testament, it was El Elyon instead, even Isaac and Jacob had different Gods.  Modern scholars(e.g.,Prof. Albright) believe, however,  God of Abraham was named El Shaddai, literally, a God with breasts.

Read Bible and you would find out that sacrificing the first child was practiced by the Jews at least till they were conquered by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon.  Child sacrifice might have happened in India too, they were mostly thrown into water, not roasted for the consumption of the priests.  The tantrics/kapaliks killed adults to meditate sitting on their corpse.

I find nothing wrong in slaughtering cows in Bangladesh.  The religious Muslims should ensure that they are consuming the cows bought properly, not stolen and/or smuggled from India.  I also fail to realize how an animal bought a few days ago from a cowshed becomes 'the most favorite item' to be sacrificed for Allah(swt).  Roasting a brand new car could be closer to serving the divine command.

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 5:13 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

This probably would be my last comments on Q. A. Rahman's posts, at least for a while. Let me go point by point.
 
QAR: "In theory everything is possible. BUT this also means you are "Proposing" to impose your values on others!!"
 
SB: I was not proposing to impose anything on anyone. I was just trying to put some sense into the heads of people who are too brainwashed to find any imperfection, let alone faults, in the religion that they inherited from their parents. I probably should admit, how foolish of me to get into trying an unattainable goal! I am not sure what Mr. Rahman means by "your values." But I would certainly claim to have a superior value system than the average ignorant religious person of any kind.
 
QAR: "There are places in India where Muslims are not "Allowed" to slaughter cow. Last time I checked Bangladesh is not part of India."
 
SB: Good point! Some people in the world do sensible things voluntarily, some people are sensible because they are not allowed to act on their insensibility.
 
QAR: "Still ALL religious sentiments have to be considered. NOT just for one community for long term peace here."
 
SB: How is killing cow a religious sentiment for the Muslims? Their religious books certainly did not ask them to slaughter cow. So, is the sentiment like, "To prove that I am a Muslim, I have to show that I kill, with a lot of fanfare, the animal that the Hindus treat like a god?"
 
QAR: "The fundamental DIFFERENCE in Muslim and Hindu narrative is unlike Hindu tradition God of Abraham (Allah-SWT) did NOT want human's to be sacrificed. While many Hindu gods (According to the tradition) do accept such "Sacrifices"."
 
SB: I do not think a thoroughly brainwashed religious Muslim is in a position to judge the differences between Islam and any other religion. There are differences. Some differences would make Islam better; some differences would make Islam worse. Seriously religious people are too biased to see the faults in their own religion. Unfortunately, I do not have much time to talk about what I call "the primitive wisdoms" in the religions.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:32 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
 
I'll become crazy if I keep getting such big doses of 'knowledge'.


>>>>   ;-)

< From member Bain>

Muslims could certainly give up the extra 15% similarity
> out of respect for their neighbors, and out of caring for a harmonious
> coexistence with the neighbors, while following their own religious
> tradition.

>>>>>>>>>> In theory everything is possible. BUT this also means you are "Proposing" to impose your values on others!!

I can understand if the request is to hide the animal from public eye as a good neighbor. But your are actually "Bold" enough the propose this on the whole country.
During my university days, I had a Roommate (Still very good friends) who came from Hindu tradition. I never cooked beef in front of him albeit he gave me permission. That is courtesy and I understand that. But your proposal is only good for mindless debate in this forum but not a "Practical" solution for a whole country.

There are places in India where Muslims are not "Allowed" to slaughter cow. Last time I checked Bangladesh is not part of India. So I think more "Practical" solution can be reached. Otherwise our people would think a minority values have been imposed on us. Also beef is cheaper in Bangladesh (Because Indian Hindus have no problem selling cows to Muslims who would make beef curry out of it!) and a good source of protein. It would deprive many poor people from getting their protein intake. Still ALL religious sentiments have to be considered. NOT just for one community for long term peace here.


As far as I know, the pre-Islamic prophet Ibrahim
> was ready to sacrifice his son Ishmail to express his true devotion to God.
> The Hindus used to sacrifice little children to please their God by offering
> the purest/most sinless thing. Of course, this kind of human sacrifices
> would be seriously prosecuted in today's world, because we are civilized
> enough to realize that the person that is to be offered/sacrificed has a
> right to this world, which even his/her father can not take away; devotion
> to God or not.


>>>>>>>>> This is a good point. The fundamental DIFFERENCE in Muslim and Hindu narrative is unlike Hindu tradition God of Abraham (Allah-SWT) did NOT want human's to be sacrificed. While many Hindu gods (According to the tradition) do accept such "Sacrifices".

The Muslim story shows us Allah (SWT) want our love and devotion towards Him but NOT our sons!!



Again NOT here to criticize other views here BUT need to point out this FUNDAMENTAL difference in narratives.

Hope this will be some help those who seek to understand different point of views.

Shalom!

.



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Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Sheikh Hasina wants to corrtect her misstep



Yeah you are right. Congratulations!!!

Now if our leaders (Both BAL and BNP) can cultivate this "Broad minded" mentality in domestic politics, we'll be eternally grateful to both of them. 


-----Original Message-----
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net>; gti82 <gti82@hotmail.com>; manik195709 <manik195709@yahoo.com>; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; syed.aslam3 <syed.aslam3@gmail.com>; aanis06 <aanis06@yahoo.com>; jnrsr53 <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>; chottala <chottala@yahoogroups.com>; dahuk <dahuk@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: ovimot <ovimot@yahoogroups.co>; nazrulic <nazrulic@gmail.com>; liaquat707 <liaquat707@gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 23, 2012 5:32 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: Sheikh Hasina wants to corrtect her misstep

 
Here are my views:
Prof. Yunus was holding on to power unconstitutionally. That was his weak point. He had angered both SH and KZ by trying to become president of the country using the "Minus Two" Theory. SH is a human being. Given Prof. Yunus's role during the rule of the Care-taker-govt. and his clinging to Grameen Bank power illegitimately, SH being a normal human being could not be enough sympathetic to recommend an extended tenure in office for him. KZ would have done worse to him. She was so vindictive that did not let Badrrodoza, the president of the country, go "unpunished".     
SH is truly a nationalist leader. She wants to see her "once a potential rival" as the president of the World Bank. Let us congratulate her on being so broadminded.



My Comment: :" Juta Mere Goru Dan". She insulted/sacked  Dr. Yunus from Grameen Bank  and now trying to correct that misstep.
Shiek h Hasina will definitely pay price for removing Dr. Yuinus from Grameen Bank in coming days.

ড. ইউনূসকে বিশ্বব্যাংকের প্রধান হিসেবে চান প্রধানমন্ত্রী

Wed 22 Feb 2012 6:49 PM BdST

ঢাকা, ২২ ফেব্রুয়ারি (আরটিএনএন ডটনেট)-- নোবেলজয়ী অর্থনীতিবিদ ড. মুহাম্মদ ইউনূসকে বিশ্বব্যাংকের প্রধান করতে ইউরোপীয় ইউনিয়নের (ইইউ) কাছে অনুরোধ জানিয়েছেন প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনা।

জেন ল্যামবার্টের নেতৃত্বে ইইউর একটি প্রতিনিধিদল বুধবার প্রধানমন্ত্রীর কার্যালয়ে তার সাথে দেখা করতে গেলে তিনি এ অনুরোধ করেন বলে বৈঠক সূত্রে জানা গেছে।

শেখ হাসিনা বলেছেন, ক্ষুদ্রঋণের মাধ্যমে দারিদ্র্য বিমোচনে অসাধারণ অবদানের জন্য মুহাম্মদ ইউনূস সারা বিশ্বে সম্মানিত। বিশ্বের বিভিন্ন দেশে সংস্থাটির কার্যক্রমের প্রসার ঘটাতে তার এই অভিজ্ঞতা বিশ্বব্যাংকের জন্য মূল্যবান সম্পদ হতে পারে।

তিনি আরো বলেন, গ্রামীণব্যাংকের মতো বড় প্রতিষ্ঠান চালানোর অভিজ্ঞতা ইউনূসের আছে। এ ছাড়া বিশ্বব্যাপী অন্যান্য প্রতিষ্ঠানের কাছেও তার সুনাম রয়েছে। তাই বিশ্বের কল্যাণের জন্য মুহাম্মদ ইউনূসকে এই পদে নিয়োগ দিতে ইইউ সংশ্লিষ্ট কর্তৃপক্ষকে রাজি করাতে পারে।

ক্ষুদ্রঋণের মাধ্যমে দারিদ্র বিমোচনের জন্য ২০০৬ সালে শান্তিতে নোবেল পুরস্কার পান  ড. ইউনূস। তবে ২০১১ সালের ২ মার্চ বেশি বয়সের কারণ দেখিয়ে ড. ইউনূসকে গ্রামীণ ব্যাংকের প্রধানের পদ থেকে সরিয়ে দেয় শেখ হাসিনার সরকার।

সাক্ষাৎকালে অ্যাম্বাসেডর অ্যাট-লার্জ এম জিয়াউদ্দিন, প্রধানমন্ত্রীর কার্যালয়ের সচিব মোল্লাহ ওয়াহেদুজ্জামান ও প্রেস সচিব আবুল কালাম আজাদ উপস্থিত ছিলেন।




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Strange African Fruit Sheds 8.9 Pounds, 2 Inches in 28 Days.
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               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190



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Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly



You have opined based on your belief; that's not fact.
Some people could believe that all human beings are His sons and daughters. How do you disprove their belief? You cannot say that your belief is our fact. Can you? In my view, the whole discussion is meaningless and silly.

>>>>>>>>>> Actually when you are discussing religion (In this case Islam), we cannot just insert personal opinions/wishes as "Fact of Islam".

There are NO books on Islam which says Allah had sons or daughters. Now that is a FACT!!

Similarly when I discuss Christianity or Hinduism I need to go by the scriptures of those religions. My personal perceptions should not interfere that discussion. That is known as "Based on facts".

Now a reference to establish what I mentioned...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Qur'an



Translations of the Qur'an, Surah 112:

AL-IKHLAS (SINCERITY)

Total Verses: 4
Revealed At: MAKKA

YUSUFALI: Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
                  He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.



===================================================================================


As I said many times, I do not mind people having opinions on Islam. However ignorant (And bigoted) opinions only promote hatred among faith communities. We should work hard to establish trust and peace among all people (With faith or without faith). In order to achieve that goal, we HAVE to invest a little time learning about each others.

Shalom!!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 23, 2012 6:25 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly

 
Q. Rahman said – Once again, I'll try to replace some wrong information with FACTS here. ...and you said Allah does not have sons or daughters. 

You have opined based on your belief; that's not fact.
Some people could believe that all human beings are His sons and daughters. How do you disprove their belief? You cannot say that your belief is our fact. Can you? In my view, the whole discussion is meaningless and silly.
Jiten Roy

--- On Wed, 2/22/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 9:34 AM

 
Once again, I'll try to replace some wrong information with FACTS here. ...


 
During Hajj, the pilgrims pelt the Devil with three stones.  Or do they really pelt the three 'daughters of Allah' one stone each?

>>>>>>>>> Actually each "Pilgrims" throw many more than "Three" stones. However this "Symbolic" ritual (To honor an incident with prophet Abraham-PBUH) has absolutely NOTHING to with "Daughters of Allah" (Allah does not have sons or daughters!!). It seems like our "Experts" loves to have opinions about Islam and Allah (SWT) but do not have minimum knowledge about these topics.

SBain: I am not sure what the term should be. What a primitive and foolish practice on the part of the smartest species on Earth! Aren't these people insulting the potential of their own intelligence?


>>>>>>>>> It is a symbolic ritual only. We feel we constantly "Work" to keep our "Bibek" (Conscious) active by fighting ill intentions (Provoked by the devil). So those who go for Hajj to purify themselves, they symbolically throw stones to devil to win over such provocations.

Having said that, it may look "Foolish" to those who do not know the concept.

I can't overemphasize for this kind of people, "If you really believe your God is almighty, let him himself punish people who hate him or do not follow him; do not waste your mind and body to establish him. Aren't you doubting his almightiness (your ticket to the hell that you also believe in) by thinking that he needs your help?"


>>>>>>>>>>> Now I see an "Original" questions based on logic (Not driven by hate but seeking knowledge). :-)

According to Islamic philosophy (And also Christian philosophy), God granted us "Free will". Therefore, we have the freedom to obey Him or disobey Him. Our Maker also tells us our path to success in this world will be achieved by following God's wishes.

Allah(SWT) is full of mercy for all His creations. So He blesses all of his creations including those who do not recognize him. The important part is our journey back to "The right path" is ALWAYS open to us.

The discussed rituals are only important for self-purification. Allah is NOT dependent on our actions or prayers.Rituals are there to help ourselves!!

Allah is free of all needs and all dependencies.

If I am hungry and you gave me food, I would naturally give thanks to you. It is in our nature in all cultures.

Similarly our prayers, fasting etc are ways to thank our Maker for all the blessings we received. It creates a natural flow and connects ourselves with the "Source of all bounties".


Now, I want to explain why I post these explanations to this forum.
This is basically my little attempt to remove misunderstanding between people. Lack of knowledge about prominent religions (Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism etc) is obvious. Which gives birth to many crazy theories about different faith communities. It also creates an environment of "Lack of trust" among good people (I think majority of all people are good!).

I welcome any criticism of any religion, I enjoy it more when it is based on facts. Rant based on myth only works against all of us.

I welcome any critic, questions or concern about my faith. Hope we'll be able to make our discussions more meaningful going forward.


Shalom!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 10:26 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly

 
SChakrabarty: "Think about the black stone in Kaaba around which the musollis walk and the practice of throwing stone. Don't you find elements of tribalism in it?"
 
SBain: I am not sure what the term should be. What a primitive and foolish practice on the part of the smartest species on Earth! Aren't these people insulting the potential of their own intelligence?
 
I can't overemphasize for this kind of people, "If you really believe your God is almighty, let him himself punish people who hate him or do not follow him; do not waste your mind and body to establish him. Aren't you doubting his almightiness (your ticket to the hell that you also believe in) by thinking that he needs your help?"
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
 
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly

 
During Hajj, the pilgrims pelt the Devil with three stones.  Or do they really pelt the three 'daughters of Allah' one stone each?

On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 10:15 PM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
If you agree with Joseph Campbell on his opinion that Hinduism is a tribal religion (in its most part-----my addition), you will not say that cow worshipping is silly. 
Worshipping any thing is a matter of faith. What you worship indicates the level of sophistication of your worship. If my grandma believes that a cow is the abode of 33 crore of gods, how would you stop her to worship a cow? That is her faith. His son does not go that far but worships gods, goddesses, and God. There is no basic difference. Differences are superficial. The former is more tribal than the other. 
Think about the black stone in Kaaba around which the musollis walk and the practice of throwing stone. Don't you find elements of tribalism in it?   

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 5:04 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly

 
KDas: "I find nothing wrong in slaughtering cows in Bangladesh ."
 
SBain: I also find nothing wrong in slaughtering cows in Bangladesh. Not only in Bangladesh, I am sure people like Dr. Das and I do not find anything wrong in slaughtering cows in any country of the world, including India. As I wrote in this forum, I even cook beef in my own kitchen.
 
The point really is, should it be done in an intimidating manner in a public place with utter disrespect or callous indifference for the Hindus? There were occasions in Bangladesh, where cow slaughtering was done in front on an ongoing Hindu religious festival. In fact, the fanaticism and irresponsibility are at such a high level now that the strong stench of rotten blood, flesh, and discards of slaughtered animals lingers in many parts of Dhaka for days, if not weeks, after the Muslim celebration of Eid-ul-Azha.
 
Now, I of course find cow worshiping silly. But do the believers of the silliness of other religions have a basis to say/think that, let alone insult that practice?
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly

 
There is no point to argue with people like Q. A. Rahman, who does not even read Quran regarding the chapters they talk about.  All they do is to click on a website written by another ignorant mullah.  Nowhere in Quran is mentioned that Ismael was taken for sacrifice, though being the elder son, it was his due.  But being illegitimate(born in a woman not married to Abraham), according to their own scripture, he was banished along with his mother to a place far from where Abraham lived.  One cannot both banish and sacrifice a son, besides the contemporary God Moloch/Melech/Malik would not accept an illegitimate son as sacrifice.  Allah(swt) was not the God of Abraham; according to the Old Testament, it was El Elyon instead, even Isaac and Jacob had different Gods.  Modern scholars(e.g.,Prof. Albright) believe, however,  God of Abraham was named El Shaddai, literally, a God with breasts.

Read Bible and you would find out that sacrificing the first child was practiced by the Jews at least till they were conquered by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon.  Child sacrifice might have happened in India too, they were mostly thrown into water, not roasted for the consumption of the priests.  The tantrics/kapaliks killed adults to meditate sitting on their corpse.

I find nothing wrong in slaughtering cows in Bangladesh.  The religious Muslims should ensure that they are consuming the cows bought properly, not stolen and/or smuggled from India.  I also fail to realize how an animal bought a few days ago from a cowshed becomes 'the most favorite item' to be sacrificed for Allah(swt).  Roasting a brand new car could be closer to serving the divine command.

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 5:13 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

This probably would be my last comments on Q. A. Rahman's posts, at least for a while. Let me go point by point.
 
QAR: "In theory everything is possible. BUT this also means you are "Proposing" to impose your values on others!!"
 
SB: I was not proposing to impose anything on anyone. I was just trying to put some sense into the heads of people who are too brainwashed to find any imperfection, let alone faults, in the religion that they inherited from their parents. I probably should admit, how foolish of me to get into trying an unattainable goal! I am not sure what Mr. Rahman means by "your values." But I would certainly claim to have a superior value system than the average ignorant religious person of any kind.
 
QAR: "There are places in India where Muslims are not "Allowed" to slaughter cow. Last time I checked Bangladesh is not part of India."
 
SB: Good point! Some people in the world do sensible things voluntarily, some people are sensible because they are not allowed to act on their insensibility.
 
QAR: "Still ALL religious sentiments have to be considered. NOT just for one community for long term peace here."
 
SB: How is killing cow a religious sentiment for the Muslims? Their religious books certainly did not ask them to slaughter cow. So, is the sentiment like, "To prove that I am a Muslim, I have to show that I kill, with a lot of fanfare, the animal that the Hindus treat like a god?"
 
QAR: "The fundamental DIFFERENCE in Muslim and Hindu narrative is unlike Hindu tradition God of Abraham (Allah-SWT) did NOT want human's to be sacrificed. While many Hindu gods (According to the tradition) do accept such "Sacrifices"."
 
SB: I do not think a thoroughly brainwashed religious Muslim is in a position to judge the differences between Islam and any other religion. There are differences. Some differences would make Islam better; some differences would make Islam worse. Seriously religious people are too biased to see the faults in their own religion. Unfortunately, I do not have much time to talk about what I call "the primitive wisdoms" in the religions.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:32 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
 
I'll become crazy if I keep getting such big doses of 'knowledge'.


>>>>   ;-)

< From member Bain>

Muslims could certainly give up the extra 15% similarity
> out of respect for their neighbors, and out of caring for a harmonious
> coexistence with the neighbors, while following their own religious
> tradition.

>>>>>>>>>> In theory everything is possible. BUT this also means you are "Proposing" to impose your values on others!!

I can understand if the request is to hide the animal from public eye as a good neighbor. But your are actually "Bold" enough the propose this on the whole country.
During my university days, I had a Roommate (Still very good friends) who came from Hindu tradition. I never cooked beef in front of him albeit he gave me permission. That is courtesy and I understand that. But your proposal is only good for mindless debate in this forum but not a "Practical" solution for a whole country.

There are places in India where Muslims are not "Allowed" to slaughter cow. Last time I checked Bangladesh is not part of India. So I think more "Practical" solution can be reached. Otherwise our people would think a minority values have been imposed on us. Also beef is cheaper in Bangladesh (Because Indian Hindus have no problem selling cows to Muslims who would make beef curry out of it!) and a good source of protein. It would deprive many poor people from getting their protein intake. Still ALL religious sentiments have to be considered. NOT just for one community for long term peace here.


As far as I know, the pre-Islamic prophet Ibrahim
> was ready to sacrifice his son Ishmail to express his true devotion to God.
> The Hindus used to sacrifice little children to please their God by offering
> the purest/most sinless thing. Of course, this kind of human sacrifices
> would be seriously prosecuted in today's world, because we are civilized
> enough to realize that the person that is to be offered/sacrificed has a
> right to this world, which even his/her father can not take away; devotion
> to God or not.


>>>>>>>>> This is a good point. The fundamental DIFFERENCE in Muslim and Hindu narrative is unlike Hindu tradition God of Abraham (Allah-SWT) did NOT want human's to be sacrificed. While many Hindu gods (According to the tradition) do accept such "Sacrifices".

The Muslim story shows us Allah (SWT) want our love and devotion towards Him but NOT our sons!!



Again NOT here to criticize other views here BUT need to point out this FUNDAMENTAL difference in narratives.

Hope this will be some help those who seek to understand different point of views.

Shalom!

.

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