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Sunday, March 4, 2012

[ALOCHONA] Re: Strange statement from minister "Bangladesh runs not on Blake's advice" - Suranjit

Suranjit is just catering to his base - as he always does. Just like his Nethri. So he is saying that the US has had no direct influence on any policy in Bangladesh :)

And yet do you think he would be secretly grateful that the Yanks threatened to send our soldiers home from UN peacekeeping missions if the CTG did not hold elections?

You bet!

Suranjit, like the rest of AL and BNP, reserves the right to phone 'the Blakes' as and when required.


--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, lutful bari <lutfulb2000@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=222899
>
> Saturday, February 18, 2012
>
> Bangladesh runs not on Blake's advice
> Says Suranjit
> Staff Correspondent
>
> Bangladesh is not run on instructions of Robert O Blake, the US
> assistant secretary of state for South and Central Asian Affairs,
> Railway Minister Suranjit Sengupta said yesterday.
> "Bangladesh is
> an independent and sovereign country and it is run by its people. Had
> Bangladesh run by the direction of the Blakes, it would never have been
> independent…. Even, no policy has been formulated in the country on
> instructions of the Blakes," he said, reacting to a comment by Blake on
> the next parliamentary polls.
> The visiting US assistant secretary
> on Thursday hoped that the ruling Awami League and the main opposition
> BNP would reach an agreement through discussions to ensure a free, fair
> and participatory election.
> On the debate over the caretaker government system, Suranjit urged the BNP to raise the matter in parliament, and not use force.
> The government scrapped the system in June last year following a Supreme
> Court verdict that declared the system illegal, but opined that two more parliamentary elections could be held under the system.
> BNP maintains it would not go to the polls unless those are held under a non-partisan caretaker government.
> Claiming that the government has restored the 1972 constitution, Suranjit
> reiterated that the constitution would be amended further if need be.
> He was talking to reporters at a reunion programme of Jagannath Hall Alumni Association at TSC of Dhaka University.
> "If you [BNP] have any acceptable formula [on caretaker system], come to
> the House for discussion," he said, and accused the BNP of trying to
> "realise the demand by force".
> "You talk about parliamentary democracy. But you don't come to parliament, trying to make it dysfunctional."
> Several hundred former students of Jagannath Hall, including politicians,
> government officials, businessmen, academicians and media personalities, were present with their families on the occasion.
> Among others,
> Dhaka University Treasurer Prof Mijanur Rahman, Jagannath Hall Alumni
> Association President Kanotosh Majumder and its General Secretary Ranjan Karmaker attended the daylong function.
>


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[ALOCHONA] Re: Waiting for a Mahathir

Robin

Many people could do a better job of running the country than your Nethri. Thanks for acknowledging that I could do a better job of running the country than her. I also think you could do a better job of running the country than her.

You may be referring to violence. I think that you have no problem with murder, extortion and thuggery committed under the patronage of Hasina because it is a necessary evil born of unfortunate circumstances. I have a problem with that. Hasina and Khaleda do not.

I think that murder, extortion and thuggery is evil in all its forms and must be challenged. It doesn¡¦t matter who the perpetrator is, what the alternative is and who the victim is. Even if it is patronized by the blessed family of Sheikh Mujib ¡V or Ziaur Rahman.

Until what is right can be upheld without precondition or context our country will be stuck in the mire of hypocrisy.

In the meantime I shall rant wildly about mediocrity and criminality in government and you can politely comment on anything that isn¡¦t in the news.

Ezajur Rahman
Kuwait



Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Waiting for a Mahathir

Mein fuerher compared to your potential, the netri is third rate or less. But you know that already!!!

Absolutely, will be delighted to be the herr Minister of everything sugar and spice & all thats nice.....I am sure the fuehrer will love some of the libations too... But I will make sure the the dandafied Volk (pardon the Banglish) will know nothing!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: ezajur
Sent: Mar 1, 2012 1:50 AM
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Waiting for a Mahathir


You seem to be describing your Nethri ļ
I'm no Nazi. But if I were a Nazi Leader I would make your dreams for Bangladesh come true by making you the Minister for Fine Wines, Quality Cigars, Good Reads and History (1947 to 1971). I think you would be quite grateful and loyal to me ļ
Robin Khundkar <rkhundkar@...>
ipsomilk2
Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Waiting for a Mahathir
I want you to be the Fuerher of BONGOLAND! Your kick a** spirit and deep knowledge of the road forward and hyper-patriotism seems to ooze out of every orifice of your body!!! Furthermore, everyone else from Mujib to Moin seem to have fallen short!!! Why waste time waiting for Godot !!!
-----Original Message-----
From: ezajur
Sent: Feb 21, 2012 8:38 AM
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Waiting for a Mahathir


Yeah - I'm one of the blokes who liked MUC. He did a lot of the grunt work for the CTG. And MUA pushed him out because MUA lost the plot in the end. Both MUA and MUC gave up on the minus two theory and covered their backsides. But what did you think - we were blind supporters of MUA and MUC? We would want them to rule till they die and to be succeeded by their family members?

Why? Who do you like?

Re: [ALOCHONA] Waiting for a Mahathir

I thought you blokes liked Masuddin Chowdhury!!! I remember the pitiable wails that came out when he was sent to the OZZ by other guy !!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Isha Khan
Sent: Jan 11, 2012 12:38 AM
To: undisclosed-recipients@null, null@null
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Waiting for a Mahathir

Waiting for a Mahathir

By Hashim Ahmed

The Bangladesh opposition political parties seem to have targeted May/June as the deadline for ousting the AL! regime. Why May/June? Because a new army chief will be appointed by that time and there is every possibility that Masud uddin Chowdhury (1/11 general) would be the choice for obvious reasons.

A former member of the Rakkhi Bahini and loyal to the regime he is very inimical to BNP. Many feel that he was instrumental in installing the AL regime. He is still retained in the army by the grateful regime and is presently waiting in Australia.His service has been extended for the third time recently.

India will also have their general elections soon.

The western nations led by the USA are for a regime-change but they are going slow as they do not have much trust on BNP for its relations with the Islamists. BNP is also a loose organisation and its leadership is very weak, opportunist and corrupt. Besides memories of Hawa bhaban and corruption of Tareq, Koko, Mamun et al are still vivid in people's mind. It is felt that BNP's Chittagong gathering would also be ! a failure while the Dhaka gathering is still a far cry.The West would rather wait for a popular movement paving the way for a NGO-led non-party transitional regime than return of BNP.

The donor community (World Bank/IMF/IFC etc) led by USA is very unlikely to release major funds which will devastate the financial planning and budget making. This will create popular sufferings due to price rise, inflation, energy crisis added by low flow of remittance and uncontrollable law and order situation. Meanwhile Khaleda Zia and others may find themselves behind the bar.

The army is less likely to intervene directly as its leadership is handpicked and loyal. The others are still in the fearful state hunted by the memories of the BDR incidents. The West is less likely to support a direct intervention under a changed geo-political scenerio. On the other hand an India-backed intervention would not last long.

It seems that the people have no alternative than to wait for a Mahathir to come to save the nation !

Hashim Ahmed
E ma! il : hashimahmed507@...

http://newsfrombangladesh.net/view.php?hidRecord=374339

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[ALOCHONA] Manmohan's advisers ?....



Manmohan's advisers ?....



http://www.prothom-alo.com/detail/date/2012-03-05/news/229957

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Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Tomorrow we will be killed —Dr Mohammad Taqi



"Pakistan will not survive." Was that a prediction by the Indian leaders or was it on their wish list? As far as I know Gandhi-Nehru-Azad did not make such prediction. I may be wrong. Any way, if the prediction was a logical conclusion, what logic did they use? Pakistan broke in 24 years because of the way (a well known history by now) the non-Bengali rulers of Pakistan treated the Bengalis. It is now 65 years since Pakistan was created. Would it break few more times? Who knows. It has practically annexed a substantial part of Kashmir with it. India has not broken yet. But there has always been and still there is presence of centrifugal forces that needed or need bloodshed to be calmed down. Indian democratic tradition is a great strength which Pakistan lacks and which Pakistan never acquired because of the powerful Pakistani military and bureaucracy.
Reorganization of areas and regions is a continuous process. It is going on even in the modern time. USSR broke in about 70 years. Ploand,Yugoslavia, and some other countries broke. 
I hope Pakistan will overcome its current and other internal problems and will survive as a democratic secualar country. It is highly essential for the stability in the entire area.  

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Tomorrow we will be killed —Dr Mohammad Taqi
 

Pakistan will not survive; that was the prediction of the then Indian leaders in 1947. I know they were right, but – it's taking too long. I think - it will break into pieces soon.
The fact is - when judgments get clouded by religious doctrines and prejudices, nothing good can come out of those brains, except hatred and destruction.  
Jiten Roy
--- On Sun, 3/4/12, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] FW: Tomorrow we will be killed —Dr Mohammad Taqi
To:
Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 3:51 PM

 
              When the HuJi/Hijb-ut-Tahrir/Jamaat/BNP and all the Mohishasurs and falamgirs, Munshi, Ayi Bahar Mela, Dhaka mela and the whole zulumgiri communalist squad take over Bangladesh and the country is defined not by the humans INSIDE her borders but by the so-called 'HINDU India' outside the border ---  please be prepared to sacrifice your lives, yet another time for the sake of greed of the Empire.
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 01:22:50 +0800Subject: Tomorrow we will be killed —Dr Mohammad Taqi 

 Tomorrow we will be killed —Dr Mohammad Taqi
It is up to the Pakistani minorities — the Shia, Ahmediyya, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs — whether they want to continue to ask the enablers of genocide to intercede on their behalf or raise the issue on every international forum possible
In his poignant account of the genocide in Rwanda 'we wish to inform you that tomorrow we will be killed with our families: Stories from Rwanda', Peter Gourevitch quotes from Plato's The Republic: "Leontius, the son of Aglaion, was coming up from the Piraeus, close to the outer side of the north wall, when he saw some dead bodies lying near the executioner, and he felt a desire to look at them, and at the same time felt disgust at the thought, and tried to turn aside. For some time he fought with himself and put his hand over eyes, but in the end the desire got the better of him, and opening his eyes with his fingers he ran forward to the bodies, saying: 'There you are, curse you, have your fill of the lovely spectacle'." 

So here I am again, cursing my eyes but still opening them with my fingers to see what has become a weekly spectacle in the land of the pure and the pious: yet another mass murder of the minorities. 
On February 28, 2012 armed men stopped a convoy of two buses and a van, travelling on the Karakoram Highway in the Kohistan district of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Reportedly, the passengers had their identity checked at gunpoint. Some of them were ordered to dismount. They were then lined up and shot at point blank range. Nineteen of them died on the spot and eight are reported injured. The buses were returning to Gilgit-Baltistan from a pilgrimage of the Shiite Islamic holy sites in Iran. All those murdered were Shia. The terrorist group Jundallah has claimed responsibility for the executions.
 
At the time of this writing, the mainstream media had not reported the names of those executed. Let me state for the record that those killed were: Raza Ali, Hussain Ali, Karim Abbas, Anees Hussain, Kaleem Abbas, Hashmat Changezi, Mohsin Abbas, Muhammad Abbas, Mubashir, Idrees Ali, Owais Husain, Kaleem Abbas (of Barmas), Farhan Ali, Faraz Hussain, Tehseen Abbas, Saqalain, Asad Zaman, Ambareen and Fatima.
 
Within minutes of many obscure happenings the traditional and contemporary media are alight with the particulars of those events — some more trivial than a pinprick on the skin of history. But when it comes to the slaughter of the minorities in Pakistan there is a certain lag time in publishing even sketchy details. And then the tepid coverage itself never goes beyond a truncated news cycle compared to other issues and events that are regurgitated ad infinitum. Hardly an analysis or a talk show ever focuses on such mass atrocities. It is not clear why every such massacre becomes a Leontius moment for the media. Do they find the freshly executed corpses disgusting to look at or is it something else? 

But my disgust is reserved for the executioners who stand atop their victims thumping their chests. Nay, they mount the centre stage at the Difa-i-Pakistan rallies in full view of the news media, gloating about their achievements. And what achievements might those be? Clearly, the ilk of Malik Ishaq of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and Maulana Ahmad Ludhianvi of the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan rechristened as the Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat (ASWJ) do not have any scientific inventions or charitable projects to their credit; their only claim to fame is the barbaric massacres of the Shia of Pakistan.
 
Holding hands with these bigots on the stage, spotted every week, are leaders of the mainstream political and religious parties like Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf and the Jamaat-e-Islami. The junta's court jester Sheikh Rashid Ahmed of Rawalpindi, the son of that arch-hypocrite General Ziaul Haq, Mr Ijazul Haq, a former federal minister for religious affairs and minorities no less (woe be on his appointer) and the granddaddy of the Taliban, Maulana Sami-ul-Haq, are also seen on this stage. The common denominator between this parade of hate-mongers is their perceived, known or (in some cases) self-confessed association with the Pakistani army.
 
Much has been written about the relationship of the Pakistani army and its clients, the Takfiri jihadists, but what is interesting is that the Federal Interior Minister Rehman Malik has appointed an Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) man as part of the team supposed to investigate the present carnage. Maybe he did so in good faith. After all, many voices from the minority groups have been demanding safety and justice from the pack of wolves that passes for the state in Pakistan. In fact, the Shia and Ahmediyya never did notice that the Pakistani state, in which they were heavily vested, had shifted loyalties forty years ago. It is pertinent to note a letter written by seven Tutsi pastors who had taken refuge inside a Seventh-day Adventist church in Kibuye, Rwanda, after which Peter Gourevitch had titled his book. 

The preachers and other Tutsis inside the church had known that the Hutus had marked them out for murder the next day. Out of luck and out of wit, the seven pastors decided to beseech the president of the Adventist Church, Pastor Elizaphan Ntakirutimana — a Hutu — to help rescue and protect them. They wrote: 
"Dear leader, we hope that you are well in these times that are so trying. We wish to inform you that tomorrow we will be killed with our families...and we hope that you will intercede on our behalf and try to help us at this time, as a man of influence, as the president of the church, to go and talk to the mayor, to try and help stay the authorities who are planning to kill us." 

History records that all of the seven pastors were killed the next day along with hundreds of other Tutsis at the Mugonero complex. As is now well documented, the Pastor Ntakirutimana did not just fail to intercede on their behalf but, along with his son Dr GĂ©rard Ntakirutimana, actually helped organise the pogrom! The father and son not only pointed the marauding Hutus to the Tutsi hideout but also helped transport them. The United Nations International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda later issued an indictment against Pastor Ntakirutimana for organising the massacres. He was convicted and sentenced to 10 years.
 It is up to the Pakistani minorities — the Shia, Ahmediyya, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs — whether they want to continue to ask the enablers of genocide to intercede on their behalf or raise the issue on every international forum possible. 
The Baloch have a taken a lead in this for they know that those committing genocide and their handlers are repeat offenders and would not stop on their own.
 



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[mukto-mona] JAMAT AND MARCH 12 , RALLY !!!!!!



Kindly read the attached article to know about the Jamati's conspiracy regarding March 12 Dhaka rally .
 


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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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[ALOCHONA] Fw: [FutureOfBangladesh] Bangladesh hopes to solve power crisis within two years ...




----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Shamim Huq <ShamimMHuq@Yahoo.com>
To: FOB <FutureOfBangladesh@Yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 10:26 PM
Subject: [FutureOfBangladesh] Bangladesh hopes to solve power crisis within two years ...
 
Gulf Times
Bangladesh hopes to solve power crisis within two years
Publish Date: Monday,5 March, 2012, at 01:02 AM Doha Time
Bangladesh's Finance Minister A M A Muhith
Bangladeshi Finance Minister A M A Muhith said yesterday the power crisis in the country will be resolved in the next two years.
He was speaking at the inaugural ceremony of the country's biggest shipyard "Khan Brothers Shipbuilding" at Gazaria in Munshiganj district, the Daily Star reported.
Ensuring electricity supply to the industries is one of the main pledges of the government, he said.
Meanwhile, in an interview with an Indian news agency in New Delhi, Bangladesh Power Secretary Md Abul Kalam
 
Azad said that Bangladesh would need about $30bn for its planned power capacity addition over the next five-six years and expects about 25-30% of the investments for the same to come from India. Grappling with acute electricity shortage, Bangladesh is embarking on significant capacity addition plans and is in the process of inviting tenders for projects having capacity of over 5,000MW. Azad said the country needs about $20bn investment in power generation activities alone in the next five to six years. "So, taking into account transmission and generation (activities), the total investment expected in the power would be around $30bn," he said in an interview during his visit to India.
"I expect around 25-30% investments (of our expected total) would come from India," he said. Currently, Bangladesh has an installed capacity of over 7,600MW and is expected to go up to 21,000MW by 2021. According to Azad, many companies, including those from India have participated in tender processes for various power projects. "Private players from India are interested in gas and coal projects as well as transmission ... Indian investors will love to be part of Bangladesh power sector," he noted.
In January, India's NTPC inked a pact with Bangladesh Power Development Board to build $1.5bn Khulna project - having 1,320MW capacity. Separately, NTPC has agreed to export 250MW power to Bangladesh. On March 1, Bangladesh organised a roadshow here to showcase the business opportunities in their power sector. Prior to that, similar roadshows were conducted in the UK, the US and Singapore. Bangladesh is also looking to participate in the hydro power projects in Arunachal Pradesh, Sikkim and Mizoram. Further, the country is interested to take part in gas-based or coal-based power projects in the Indian states which are adjoining to Bangladesh.
To meet its growing needs, Bangladesh would be building nuclear power plant with Russia. "We are talking with Russia. I believe that within the middle of this year, we will have a final contract with them for building primarily 1,000MW and another 1,000MW (capacity). This may come up by 2018-19," Azad said. IANS


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[mukto-mona] Fw: [FutureOfBangladesh] Bangladesh hopes to solve power crisis within two years ...




----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Shamim Huq <ShamimMHuq@Yahoo.com>
To: FOB <FutureOfBangladesh@Yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 10:26 PM
Subject: [FutureOfBangladesh] Bangladesh hopes to solve power crisis within two years ...
 
Gulf Times
Bangladesh hopes to solve power crisis within two years
Publish Date: Monday,5 March, 2012, at 01:02 AM Doha Time
Bangladesh's Finance Minister A M A Muhith
Bangladeshi Finance Minister A M A Muhith said yesterday the power crisis in the country will be resolved in the next two years.
He was speaking at the inaugural ceremony of the country's biggest shipyard "Khan Brothers Shipbuilding" at Gazaria in Munshiganj district, the Daily Star reported.
Ensuring electricity supply to the industries is one of the main pledges of the government, he said.
Meanwhile, in an interview with an Indian news agency in New Delhi, Bangladesh Power Secretary Md Abul Kalam
 
Azad said that Bangladesh would need about $30bn for its planned power capacity addition over the next five-six years and expects about 25-30% of the investments for the same to come from India. Grappling with acute electricity shortage, Bangladesh is embarking on significant capacity addition plans and is in the process of inviting tenders for projects having capacity of over 5,000MW. Azad said the country needs about $20bn investment in power generation activities alone in the next five to six years. "So, taking into account transmission and generation (activities), the total investment expected in the power would be around $30bn," he said in an interview during his visit to India.
"I expect around 25-30% investments (of our expected total) would come from India," he said. Currently, Bangladesh has an installed capacity of over 7,600MW and is expected to go up to 21,000MW by 2021. According to Azad, many companies, including those from India have participated in tender processes for various power projects. "Private players from India are interested in gas and coal projects as well as transmission ... Indian investors will love to be part of Bangladesh power sector," he noted.
In January, India's NTPC inked a pact with Bangladesh Power Development Board to build $1.5bn Khulna project - having 1,320MW capacity. Separately, NTPC has agreed to export 250MW power to Bangladesh. On March 1, Bangladesh organised a roadshow here to showcase the business opportunities in their power sector. Prior to that, similar roadshows were conducted in the UK, the US and Singapore. Bangladesh is also looking to participate in the hydro power projects in Arunachal Pradesh, Sikkim and Mizoram. Further, the country is interested to take part in gas-based or coal-based power projects in the Indian states which are adjoining to Bangladesh.
To meet its growing needs, Bangladesh would be building nuclear power plant with Russia. "We are talking with Russia. I believe that within the middle of this year, we will have a final contract with them for building primarily 1,000MW and another 1,000MW (capacity). This may come up by 2018-19," Azad said. IANS


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear de-proliferation and non-proliferation must be done



Excellent post. A mild correction may be required: As a matter of fact, Britain was on our side during 1971 liberation struggle.

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear de-proliferation and non-proliferation must be done
 
Even as I accept some of Dr. Roy's arguments, I would say that the possessors of nuclear weapons have to accept at least some of the four points that I made, in order to sell their demands for non-proliferation in terms of principles. As we know, India has been making some similar points to justify not signing the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, even though the world recognizes that India is not a rogue state.
 
Pakistan's possession of nuclear weapons is, of course, too close to our home. I have no doubt that if they had those weapons to threaten India in 1971, there would be no Bangladesh at that time, and possibly not even today.
 
As for religious fanatics running some countries, I think the short-sightedness of the Western powers has nurtured the fanaticism for too long. For example, countries like the United States and Britain supported the military dictatorial Pakistan in 1971 over the brutalized people of East Bengal and over the democratic India, because the Hindu-Muslim divide in the subcontinent was advantageous for them. I think if the big powers of the world cared more about principles than selfishness, they could find smart ways to discourage religious fanaticism. For another example, the way the Western powers have operated in Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein has made that country more Islamic fanatic.
 
I do not think the communists are as bad as the religious fanatics. I know many well-established Chinese professionals in the USA who would not have a chance to be where they are had there not been the support that the communist China had provided for their poor families.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
===================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear de-proliferation and non-proliferation must be done
 
The world will never be free of nuclear arsenals. Therefore, wishing for that is like wishing to meet God in person. We have to be realistic in what we wish for. If we accept that fact then we can discuss this issue wisely. There are countries in the world, which should not be allowed to have nuclear weapons, and religious/ideological fanatics run these countries. These fanatics are mostly erratic and unpredictable, because they are guided by the divine/heavenly instructions from God or ideological authoritarian doctrines. I know some of them, North Korea, Pakistan, etc., have nuclear weapons, and the world is dealing with the consequences. We don not have the luxury to increase the list. These are not toys.
 
This is the way I see this issue - we give guns to the cop and to the soldier, but not the thugs and drug dealers. You won't give a diamond necklace to a monkey. Will you? Some may argue that since thugs and drug dealers got guns illegally anyway, lets give guns to everybody. That is not an acceptable proposition yet.
 
The bottom line is - people who do not value their own lives cannot value the lives of others.
 
Jiten Roy

--- On Sun, 3/4/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Nuclear de-proliferation and non-proliferation must be done
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 9:44 AM

 
Since I do not want to talk under the banner of a religious fanatic (Khameini), I have changed the heading. Looking at the new heading, it should be obvious what I think; de-proliferation should be talked about before non-proliferation.
 
The way the possessors of nuclear weapons are demanding non-proliferation by others is indeed hypocritical. There is no morality here, it is all about who has the power. I think they could ask for non-proliferation with a degree of morality only if they did the following:
 
1)      Acknowledged that it was a mistake for them to possess those weapons of mass destruction.
2)      Stopped testing for new weapons and for ensuring the effectiveness of the old weapons.
3)      Submitted a clear cut plan as to how and within how long they would bring the level of their arsenal of nuclear weapons to zero.
4)      Execute at least a part of the plan proposed in point 3 above.
 
Having said the above, I think the non-possessors of nuclear weapons should not aspire for nuclear weapons; rather they should make the above four point demands to the possessors of nuclear weapons. This, however, can be very hard; because the possessors of nuclear weapons have been ignoring such demands for the last more than half a century. Thus, the world is in a serious predicament on this. I am worried about a war of mass destruction originating in the Middle East .
 
BTW: Khameini's wise words could be just a deception. If these fanatics had any morality, they would not have made the non-Muslims of their land an inferior class of citizens.
Sukhamaya Bain
 
===================================
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: naz chow <nazrulic@gmail.com>
Cc: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear Weapons Are Sinful: Ayatollah Ali Khameini
 
I do not want proliferation of nuclear weapons to cause premature death of the civilization.  Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 3, 2012, at 3:29 PM, naz chow <nazrulic@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you for your opinion. But, reality is power is all controlling/ enjoying everything in the world, if you see the history. So, to counter against those countries, every country should have nuclear weapons. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:51 PM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
No country should have it. It is not safe in any country's hand. American atomic bombs killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
From: naz chow <nazrulic@gmail.com>
To: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear Weapons Are Sinful: Ayatollah Ali Khameini
I do not understand why you are against Iran because of America and Israel, also India. My question is if those countries possess nuclear weapons, every country has right to have those. For the sake of not have other countries, what America and Israel have done attacked and distroyed Iraq. It is not good practice in the civilized world. It is like rule of jungle. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:31 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
Not only America, many muslim countries will also not like Iranian nuclear bomb. To Saudi Arabia, Iran is a ferocious poisonous snake ready to strike any moment and hence it's throat needs to be cut (please remember a news item several months old). If Mr. Anwar is advocationg for Iran to be allowed to make nuclear bombs, he is doing it to be politically correct. Being a fan of Saudi rule and policies, he will definitely not want a Shiite country to possess nuclear bombs. American foreign ploicy has proved many a time to be a myopic one. One example is letting Pakistan (to be more specific---acceptance of nuclear weapon in Pakistan) to possess nuclear capability.
Why nobody is talking about Israeli nukes?
Most critics believe Israel posses huge nuclear arsenal with the help from her western  backers.
Why state of Israel has immunity to keep its nukes ?
Why civilized western world never talk about vast arsenal of Israeli nukes?
If  poor nations like India, Pakistan can obtain nukes,  why it's wrong for other rich nations  in Middle East  to have it, even they can't even think about this nukes?
Is nuclear  the monopoly of selected nations ?
Why nuclear discrimination continuing in modern World?
My understanding is that not only nukes, all  unconventional deadly weapons should be eliminated for a peaceful World.
We heard about Nuclear Chapabazi(Lie) by western powers about so called Iraqi Nukes before attacking Iraq to destroy its nukes, but
unfortunately, nothing found but million human lives were lost for this Chapabazi(Lie). Why such devastation ? To protect whom?
Nobody paid price or questioned for this Chapabazi(Lie)
My understanding is that, If Israel can posses Nukes, than why my motherland Bangladesh can't  also get nukes to protect its  territorial integrity from foreign aggression?
Finally to protect  the volatile Middle East , Middle East should be declared 'Nuclear Free Zone' by the United Nations and enforced by all Big Powers
 
---------- Original Message ----------From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>To: Undisclosed-recipients:;Subject: [mukto-mona] Nuclear Weapons Are Sinful: Ayatollah Ali KhameiniDate: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 05:35:43 -0500
 
         I think religion does have a place in politics, as a voice in the public arena, but a voice speaking from a moral high ground above the fray, not as one of the manipulating, cheating, indoctrinating tool in the hands of one of the parties jostling for power.          The infested mindset of the Pakistani glory and pride in owning the 'Islamic Bomb' is an outdated and tiresome 'wannabe like the West' or better and 'holier than thou' mindset that should look for a permanent cure soon.              Farida Majid
 
======================= <<  Neither Iraq nor Iran had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks that launched our nation on a never-ending and essentially irrational �war on terror.� Irrational, because the terrorist enemy has come to be defined through political convenience rather than through an objective threat assessment. Iran�s Shiite leaders were sworn enemies of Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaida, which was inspired and financed by the Wahhabi Sunnis of Saudi Arabia. >>  

The Ayatollah Is Right About One Thing: Nuclear Weapons Are Sinful

Email this item Email    Print this item Print    Share this item... Share
       
Posted on Feb 29, 2012
AP / Vahid Salemi
A pro-government Iranian demonstrator holds a poster with photos of the late revolutionary founder Ayatollah Khomeini, right, and supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, at an annual demonstration in front of the former U.S. Embassy in Tehran.
 
Given my own deep prejudice toward religious zealotry, it has not been difficult for me to accept the conventional American view that Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme theocratic ruler of Iran, is a dangerous madman never to be trusted with a nuclear weapon. How then to explain his recent seemingly logical and humane religious proclamations on the immorality of nuclear weapons? His statement challenges the acceptance of nuclear war-fighting as an option by every U.S. president since Harry Truman, who, in 1945, ordered the deaths of 185,000 mostly innocent civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
 
�We do not see any glory, pride or power in the nuclear weapons�quite the opposite,� Iran�s Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi said Tuesday in summarizing the ayatollah�s views. Salehi added, �The production, possession, use or threat of use of nuclear weapons are illegitimate, futile, harmful, dangerous and prohibited as a great sin.�
 
Of course, the ayatollah�s position will be largely interpreted by the media and politicians in the United States as a devious trick to lull critics, but words of such clarity will not be so easily dismissed by his devout followers. They are words that one wishes our own government would embrace to add moral consistency to our condemnation of other countries we claim might be joining us in holding nuclear arms.
 
As awkward as it may be to recall, it was the United States that gifted the world with these sinful weapons. And even more to the point of assessing sin, ours is the only nation that has ever used such weapons toward their intended purpose of killing large numbers of the innocent. That fact alone should provoke some measure of humility in responding to Salehi�s offer this week at the Conference on Disarmament in Geneva to negotiate a treaty banning nuclear weapons.
 
Unfortunately, his remarks were all too predictably met with swift condemnation by the United States. Laura E. Kennedy, the American ambassador to the conference, said that Iran�s claim to be opposed to such weapons �stands in sharp contrast� to that nation�s failure to comply with international obligations. But the fact is that the administration she represents has stated that there is as yet no evidence that Iran is committed to building a nuclear bomb.
 
 
She is right that Iran�s resistance to inspection �is hardly illustrative of a commitment to nuclear disarmament,� but such a remark is grotesquely hypocritical coming from the representative of a nation that has produced more than half of the world�s nuclear arsenal under the most severe conditions of secrecy. It is also true that U.S. acceptance of nuclear weapons in Israel and Pakistan, both of which have been recipients of American military aid despite breaking international nonproliferation codes to which U.S. presidents have long subscribed, is hardly a sign of consistency on this issue.
 
 
It is obvious, in a week when the U.S. welcomed North Korea�s renewed commitment to inspections, that even the most recalcitrant of nations can be induced to reason. The treatment of Iran is complicated by this being a U.S. election season, during which the Republican candidates, with the exception of Ron Paul, have been beating the war drums over what they claim is Iran�s nuclear threat. In no way has the GOP�s zeal for military confrontation been chastened by the fact that a similar crusade in 2003 by Republican hawks l


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               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear de-proliferation and non-proliferation must be done



Even as I accept some of Dr. Roy's arguments, I would say that the possessors of nuclear weapons have to accept at least some of the four points that I made, in order to sell their demands for non-proliferation in terms of principles. As we know, India has been making some similar points to justify not signing the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, even though the world recognizes that India is not a rogue state.
 
Pakistan's possession of nuclear weapons is, of course, too close to our home. I have no doubt that if they had those weapons to threaten India in 1971, there would be no Bangladesh at that time, and possibly not even today.
 
As for religious fanatics running some countries, I think the short-sightedness of the Western powers has nurtured the fanaticism for too long. For example, countries like the United States and Britain supported the military dictatorial Pakistan in 1971 over the brutalized people of East Bengal and over the democratic India, because the Hindu-Muslim divide in the subcontinent was advantageous for them. I think if the big powers of the world cared more about principles than selfishness, they could find smart ways to discourage religious fanaticism. For another example, the way the Western powers have operated in Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein has made that country more Islamic fanatic.
 
I do not think the communists are as bad as the religious fanatics. I know many well-established Chinese professionals in the USA who would not have a chance to be where they are had there not been the support that the communist China had provided for their poor families.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
===================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear de-proliferation and non-proliferation must be done
 
The world will never be free of nuclear arsenals. Therefore, wishing for that is like wishing to meet God in person. We have to be realistic in what we wish for. If we accept that fact then we can discuss this issue wisely. There are countries in the world, which should not be allowed to have nuclear weapons, and religious/ideological fanatics run these countries. These fanatics are mostly erratic and unpredictable, because they are guided by the divine/heavenly instructions from God or ideological authoritarian doctrines. I know some of them, North Korea, Pakistan, etc., have nuclear weapons, and the world is dealing with the consequences. We don not have the luxury to increase the list. These are not toys.
 
This is the way I see this issue - we give guns to the cop and to the soldier, but not the thugs and drug dealers. You won't give a diamond necklace to a monkey. Will you? Some may argue that since thugs and drug dealers got guns illegally anyway, lets give guns to everybody. That is not an acceptable proposition yet.
 
The bottom line is - people who do not value their own lives cannot value the lives of others.
 
Jiten Roy

--- On Sun, 3/4/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Nuclear de-proliferation and non-proliferation must be done
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 9:44 AM

 
Since I do not want to talk under the banner of a religious fanatic (Khameini), I have changed the heading. Looking at the new heading, it should be obvious what I think; de-proliferation should be talked about before non-proliferation.
 
The way the possessors of nuclear weapons are demanding non-proliferation by others is indeed hypocritical. There is no morality here, it is all about who has the power. I think they could ask for non-proliferation with a degree of morality only if they did the following:
 
1)      Acknowledged that it was a mistake for them to possess those weapons of mass destruction.
2)      Stopped testing for new weapons and for ensuring the effectiveness of the old weapons.
3)      Submitted a clear cut plan as to how and within how long they would bring the level of their arsenal of nuclear weapons to zero.
4)      Execute at least a part of the plan proposed in point 3 above.
 
Having said the above, I think the non-possessors of nuclear weapons should not aspire for nuclear weapons; rather they should make the above four point demands to the possessors of nuclear weapons. This, however, can be very hard; because the possessors of nuclear weapons have been ignoring such demands for the last more than half a century. Thus, the world is in a serious predicament on this. I am worried about a war of mass destruction originating in the Middle East .
 
BTW: Khameini's wise words could be just a deception. If these fanatics had any morality, they would not have made the non-Muslims of their land an inferior class of citizens.
Sukhamaya Bain
 
===================================
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: naz chow <nazrulic@gmail.com>
Cc: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear Weapons Are Sinful: Ayatollah Ali Khameini
 
I do not want proliferation of nuclear weapons to cause premature death of the civilization.  Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 3, 2012, at 3:29 PM, naz chow <nazrulic@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you for your opinion. But, reality is power is all controlling/ enjoying everything in the world, if you see the history. So, to counter against those countries, every country should have nuclear weapons. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:51 PM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
No country should have it. It is not safe in any country's hand. American atomic bombs killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
From: naz chow <nazrulic@gmail.com>
To: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear Weapons Are Sinful: Ayatollah Ali Khameini
I do not understand why you are against Iran because of America and Israel, also India. My question is if those countries possess nuclear weapons, every country has right to have those. For the sake of not have other countries, what America and Israel have done attacked and distroyed Iraq. It is not good practice in the civilized world. It is like rule of jungle. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:31 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
Not only America, many muslim countries will also not like Iranian nuclear bomb. To Saudi Arabia, Iran is a ferocious poisonous snake ready to strike any moment and hence it's throat needs to be cut (please remember a news item several months old). If Mr. Anwar is advocationg for Iran to be allowed to make nuclear bombs, he is doing it to be politically correct. Being a fan of Saudi rule and policies, he will definitely not want a Shiite country to possess nuclear bombs. American foreign ploicy has proved many a time to be a myopic one. One example is letting Pakistan (to be more specific---acceptance of nuclear weapon in Pakistan) to possess nuclear capability.
Why nobody is talking about Israeli nukes?
Most critics believe Israel posses huge nuclear arsenal with the help from her western  backers.
Why state of Israel has immunity to keep its nukes ?
Why civilized western world never talk about vast arsenal of Israeli nukes?
If  poor nations like India, Pakistan can obtain nukes,  why it's wrong for other rich nations  in Middle East  to have it, even they can't even think about this nukes?
Is nuclear  the monopoly of selected nations ?
Why nuclear discrimination continuing in modern World?
My understanding is that not only nukes, all  unconventional deadly weapons should be eliminated for a peaceful World.
We heard about Nuclear Chapabazi(Lie) by western powers about so called Iraqi Nukes before attacking Iraq to destroy its nukes, but
unfortunately, nothing found but million human lives were lost for this Chapabazi(Lie). Why such devastation ? To protect whom?
Nobody paid price or questioned for this Chapabazi(Lie)
My understanding is that, If Israel can posses Nukes, than why my motherland Bangladesh can't  also get nukes to protect its  territorial integrity from foreign aggression?
Finally to protect  the volatile Middle East , Middle East should be declared 'Nuclear Free Zone' by the United Nations and enforced by all Big Powers
 
---------- Original Message ----------From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>To: Undisclosed-recipients:;Subject: [mukto-mona] Nuclear Weapons Are Sinful: Ayatollah Ali KhameiniDate: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 05:35:43 -0500
 
         I think religion does have a place in politics, as a voice in the public arena, but a voice speaking from a moral high ground above the fray, not as one of the manipulating, cheating, indoctrinating tool in the hands of one of the parties jostling for power.          The infested mindset of the Pakistani glory and pride in owning the 'Islamic Bomb' is an outdated and tiresome 'wannabe like the West' or better and 'holier than thou' mindset that should look for a permanent cure soon.              Farida Majid
 
======================= <<  Neither Iraq nor Iran had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks that launched our nation on a never-ending and essentially irrational �war on terror.� Irrational, because the terrorist enemy has come to be defined through political convenience rather than through an objective threat assessment. Iran�s Shiite leaders were sworn enemies of Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaida, which was inspired and financed by the Wahhabi Sunnis of Saudi Arabia. >>  

The Ayatollah Is Right About One Thing: Nuclear Weapons Are Sinful

Email this item Email    Print this item Print    Share this item... Share
       
Posted on Feb 29, 2012
AP / Vahid Salemi
A pro-government Iranian demonstrator holds a poster with photos of the late revolutionary founder Ayatollah Khomeini, right, and supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, at an annual demonstration in front of the former U.S. Embassy in Tehran.
 
Given my own deep prejudice toward religious zealotry, it has not been difficult for me to accept the conventional American view that Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme theocratic ruler of Iran, is a dangerous madman never to be trusted with a nuclear weapon. How then to explain his recent seemingly logical and humane religious proclamations on the immorality of nuclear weapons? His statement challenges the acceptance of nuclear war-fighting as an option by every U.S. president since Harry Truman, who, in 1945, ordered the deaths of 185,000 mostly innocent civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
 
�We do not see any glory, pride or power in the nuclear weapons�quite the opposite,� Iran�s Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi said Tuesday in summarizing the ayatollah�s views. Salehi added, �The production, possession, use or threat of use of nuclear weapons are illegitimate, futile, harmful, dangerous and prohibited as a great sin.�
 
Of course, the ayatollah�s position will be largely interpreted by the media and politicians in the United States as a devious trick to lull critics, but words of such clarity will not be so easily dismissed by his devout followers. They are words that one wishes our own government would embrace to add moral consistency to our condemnation of other countries we claim might be joining us in holding nuclear arms.
 
As awkward as it may be to recall, it was the United States that gifted the world with these sinful weapons. And even more to the point of assessing sin, ours is the only nation that has ever used such weapons toward their intended purpose of killing large numbers of the innocent. That fact alone should provoke some measure of humility in responding to Salehi�s offer this week at the Conference on Disarmament in Geneva to negotiate a treaty banning nuclear weapons.
 
Unfortunately, his remarks were all too predictably met with swift condemnation by the United States. Laura E. Kennedy, the American ambassador to the conference, said that Iran�s claim to be opposed to such weapons �stands in sharp contrast� to that nation�s failure to comply with international obligations. But the fact is that the administration she represents has stated that there is as yet no evidence that Iran is committed to building a nuclear bomb.
 
 
She is right that Iran�s resistance to inspection �is hardly illustrative of a commitment to nuclear disarmament,� but such a remark is grotesquely hypocritical coming from the representative of a nation that has produced more than half of the world�s nuclear arsenal under the most severe conditions of secrecy. It is also true that U.S. acceptance of nuclear weapons in Israel and Pakistan, both of which have been recipients of American military aid despite breaking international nonproliferation codes to which U.S. presidents have long subscribed, is hardly a sign of consistency on this issue.
 
 
It is obvious, in a week when the U.S. welcomed North Korea�s renewed commitment to inspections, that even the most recalcitrant of nations can be induced to reason. The treatment of Iran is complicated by this being a U.S. election season, during which the Republican candidates, with the exception of Ron Paul, have been beating the war drums over what they claim is Iran�s nuclear threat. In no way has the GOP�s zeal for military confrontation been chastened by the fact that a similar crusade in 2003 by Republican hawks l


__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
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