Nabi/Navi is originally a Mesopotamian word meaning a chatterbox. Only a stupid of inferior order could write such sentences as "The combination of arrogance and ignorance is amusing to watch." The forum knows who is what, and who has thus far been on the receiving end of information.
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:47 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
And Hebrew is a "Sister" language of Arabic. For Example, Peace in Arabic is "Salaam" and in Hebrew "Shalom". Prophet in Arabic is "Nabi" and in Hebrew "Navi". The combination of arrogance and ignorance is amusing to watch. :-)
Shalom! (Hebrew for peace)....
-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, May 24, 2012 6:22 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Madrasah Education
As usual, Mr. Q. A. Rahman goes on babbling without a fundamental knowledge on any thing. Madrassah is derived from the Hebrew word Midrash meaning a place for religious knowledge.
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 8:10 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
3. Having a primary education in a maktab or a madrasah logically cannot have any positive impact on a student's future academic career that involves modern education including a degree of Bar-at-Law. This only testifies to the student's strong determination to embrace modern education.
>>>>>>>>> I think we went over this one. Most of us agree the "Current" quality of Madrassa or school system is not acceptable. So my opinion is to improve the madrassa system. Which will combine secular education with enough religious education.
Like it or not religion is part of our culture and reality of our lives. So if we have enough "Educated" people among us with basic education of religious scripture, we can confront fanaticism and politicization of religion. As far as Islam is concern, it has structure to support politics but it does NOT support abusing religion to oppress innocent people. Because of a acute lack of basic understanding of Islam, the mainstream population hesitate to stand up against abusing of religion.
Madrassa is simply arabic word for school (As far as I understand it). You can call it "Patshala" if you please but quality of education should be our "Common concern". We are producing "One liner idiots" in most cases than people with fundamental understanding of religion.
My two cents.....
Shalom!
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, May 22, 2012 5:35 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] Madrasah Education
1. It is a nice analogy. A book on the theory of probability mentions: If you put a monkey with a typewriter in front of it, by randomly typing, the monkey will one day recreate a sonnet of Shakespeare.2. There was a time when individual Sanskrit scholars used to run Sanskrit school as a profession. Curriculum included Indian philosophy including Charvak, grammar, literature, alankar, as well as orthodox scriptures. Traces of it may still exist but they do not produce any enlightened graduates. The recent graduates even don't know how to write and read Sanskrit (Devnagori) scripts. They create orthodox priests at best. Indian philosophy and Sanskrit literature are now taught in mainstream education system. The process of transition was obviously painful as it involved earnings of so many Sanskrit scholars who used to run the schools and their graduates.3. Having a primary education in a maktab or a madrasah logically cannot have any positive impact on a student's future academic career that involves modern education including a degree of Bar-at-Law. This only testifies to the student's strong determination to embrace modern education.
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: "alochona@yahoogroups.com" <alochona@yahoogroups.com>; "khabor@yahoogroups.com" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "kgmowla@att.net" <kgmowla@att.net>; S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>; "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: coorection - Re: [KHABOR] RE: [ALOCHONA] RE: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
As if a few million monkeys randomly can recreate Shakespeare in some day? I rest my case.
-SD
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: Khondakar Mowla <kgmowla@att.net>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com; khabor@yahoogroups.com; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: kgmowla@att.net; S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 6:06 AM
Subject: coorection - Re: [KHABOR] RE: [ALOCHONA] RE: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
Assalamu Alaikum:So far I know that Ex Chief justice Syed Mahbub Murshed, ex prime minister Shah Azizur Rahman and probably at least two Chief Justice of Pakistan Supreme Court, Justice Hamoodur Rahman (Burdwani) and chief Justcie Fazal-e-Akbar (Murshidabadi) and many others of Pakistanis/Bangladeshis like Justice Abdus Sattar were also produced by Madrasa, probably by Calcutta Alia Madrasha (in Taltala).
From: Khondakar Mowla <kgmowla@att.net>
To: khabor@yahoogroups.com; alochona@yahoogroups.com; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: kgmowla@att.net
Sent: Sun, May 20, 2012 3:51:53 AM
Subject: Re: [KHABOR] RE: [ALOCHONA] RE: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
Assalamu Alaikum:So far I know that Ex Chief justice Syed Mahmud Murshed, Shah Azizur Rahman andprobably at least two Chief Justice of Pakistan Supreme Court, Justice Hamudur Rahaman (Burdwani) and Justcie Fazle Rabbi (Murshidabadi) and many others of Pakistanis/Bangladeshis were also produced by Madrasa, probably by Calcutta Alia Madrasha (in Taltala).
From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, May 17, 2012 11:21:06 PM
Subject: [KHABOR] RE: [ALOCHONA] RE: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
Shah Deedar you are simplistic. These Madrasah graduates kept the Masjids running, the morals of the nation safe to the extent possible.Madrasas produced many political leaders like Akram Khan, Maulana Abul Kalam Azad., Mufti Mahmud, Moulana Atahar Ali in the past.Many others who graduated from universities had initial education Madrasas.Even now about one third of the students get education in Dakhil Madrasas and then to the universities and they are better in education and conduct on balance in most cases.The Madrasa stream is not harming national development. It is assisting by producing relatively more disciplined citizens.Shah Abdul HannanFrom: alochona@yahoogroups.com [mailto: alochona@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Shah Deeldar
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:41 PM
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com ; 'mukto-mona'
Cc: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] RE: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......I think she is right. Tell me one good thing that was created by Madrassa education except learning something that has no value in modern life. What change did that education brought to Islamic countries? What invention did we make in last five hundred years? It is the modern knowledge cultivated by others serving us with all kinds of products and gizmos. We have become only buyers of manufactured goods and not creators of any damn thing except chanting God is great? And, how long can this go on?-SD"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBSFrom: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com ; 'mukto-mona' < mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] RE: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......This is Farida Majid at her best. She wants banning of all Madrasas.What an extreme statement. No comment is needed .Her Islam which she parades sometimes is a queer thing. She understands Islam more than all Ulama and other Islamic scholars.Shah Abdul HannanFrom: alochona@yahoogroups.com [mailto: alochona@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Farida Majid
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:08 PM
To: mukto-mona
Subject: [ALOCHONA] RE: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......Mr. Q Rahman gives us great wisdom from his 'religious' knowledge almost every time he posts. At some point one would thin that he is striving to be the greatest proselytizer of Islam. My question is: Did he acquire all this vast knowledge from Madrassah education that he received in the past? Does Mr. Rahman himself, or his sisters, brothers, cousins, friends and relatives send their children to Madrassahs for "authentic teachings of Islam"?
Unless the honest answer to the question is an unqualified YES Mr. Q Rahman is resorting to a false, malicious propaganda. The fact on the ground level is that for the benefit of future generations of Muslims in the subcontinent
Madrassahs should be BANNED from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh .
The traditional 'moktob' on Fridays that give 'ampara' lessons to little boys and girls at the local mosques in the village have been sufficient religious education for centuries. In the cities parents can send their children to a weekend 'diniyat' school or something to pick up skills to read the Qur'an. Parents can provide the needed religious education for their children (just as Mr. Rahman's parents did) without thousands and thousands and thousands of Madrassahs all over the country. The Muslims of Bangladesh are 'naturally' better quality Muslims than their berathars and sisters in the Kingdom of Jahiliya (otherwise known as Saudi Arabia ).
There should be proper Religious Seminaries or especial Madrassahs where Imams and Khadems of mosques should receive their education.
If you cannot see the politics behind the establishment of these educationally backward, harmful and useless madrassahs then you ARE part of the propaganda. This has nothing to do with religion.To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: subimal@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 11:45:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......1. I will use the word "karma" as a religious or philosophical concept. The said word has very deep meanings.2. Atheists (example, the Stalin era in the USSR ) may have agenda that can prompt them to kill and torture. I hope I have properly understood the meaning of the statement "Without communal agenda, atheists have no reason to abandon good karmas". Killings and torture by many "religious" dictators (example, Saddam) were or are not communally motivated. The holocausts that descended on the Jews (WW II) and Hindus (1971) were mostly communal in nature. In these two cases Hitler and Yahiya Khan were the villains.3. Hatred, discrimination, persecution, and killing are rooted in scriptures. It depends on the ruler how he interprets and implements it. AL (I prefer using AL to BAL--it is my problem, Mr. Rahaman, as the sense of sin is in my mind as I am prejudiced with the word BAL) gave us a great constitution although there was hardly any atheists in that party. Nazibullah and Mollah Omar had diametrically opposite agenda---the former one's being far more progressive and humanitarian than that of the latter's. Even a Taliban member who fought against Soviet ocuupation does not want Taliban to come back to power with the same agenda (closing girls' school for example).4. In my judgement (following Campbell ), both Islam and Hinduism originally were tribal in nature. Although the rituals have mostly remained triabal in nature (comparatively more dominating in Hinduism), both the religions are getting more and more universal. Given the multi-cultural, multi-racial, and multi-religious interactive and interdependent pluralistic societies, there is no way out. Isolated and closed societies are suicidal.5. I do not believe in divine authorities. Every thing we see in scriptures are man made and were captured in the minds and hearts of the sages. Since they are man made and hence are bound to be time- and place-specific, only man is legitimately entitled to challenge, modify, and update them. I always emphasize on the word "reinterpretation". I find the concept of "reincarnation" or "Avatar" interesting and instructive. If we are afraid to challenge, reinterpret, and update, we are doomed to live a life that is not "modern". The concept of "Avatar" guarantees the progress of the society as you do not get stuck to a particular Avatar and successive Avatrs are supposed to be more and more progressive.6. It does not matter when eating beef was forbidden, it is still a fact that to a practicing Hindu, the cow is sacred and eating beef is against his religion. I have seen many Hindus not following this religious edict thanks to the freedom and rationality that they use to break the barrier to enjoy the cheap resources of the world a little bit more. Christians in general are more open in this matter.7. I am aware that Mr. Rahman is not advocation for implementing Islamic rule in Bangladeh. But I wnt to emphasize that I am dead against the so called "Islamic" rule in Bangladesh . I like 1972 constitution which has already been raped several times. I believe in the principle of "separation of the church from the state". Even I do not buy the idea that a state ( Bangladesh ) get pro-actively involved with an international organization (OIC) in declaring a city (Dhaka) as the capital (Dhaka) of a particular religious (Islamic) culture of a continent ( Asia ) for a particular year (1212). I am not aware of the terms of reference that Bangladesh will have to follow in case of capital of Islamic culture matter. In my opinion it should kept private and not a state affair. It should however be allright for the PM who happens to be the head of the government of a Muslim majority country to become the chief guest in any occasion related to this. But what can we do? Our dependence on the Islamic countries is still unlimited.8. I fully agree that the improvemnt in quality of Islamic education will minimize the unhappy incidences like the one that has recently happened in a madrasa. Even a several decades ago Greek philosophies used to be taught in the madrasas of the subcontinent. I am not sure what they have now in the curriculum. Our governments have neither commitments nor resources to improve the system. They do not have the courage either to undertake such a program.From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......the, ists, without communal agenda, have no reason to abandon good-karmas. Also, in my view, there is another class of people who serve God through good-deeds only, devoid of any religious ideology have no incentive to deviate from their good-karmas.>>>>>>>>>> I am sure disorder in Bangladesh bothers you enough to write about it. It is the same for me. However some of your assumptions are probably based on observation not based on teachings of religion. Rightly you pointed out that without communal agenda, atheists have no reason to abandon good-karmas.Guess you "Assumed" that religion dictates us to work against people of other faiths and no faiths. Judging by some so called religious parties I cannot blame you for such assumptions but that is NOT what Islam (As a Muslim I just want to talk about Islam in my post) is all about. Unlike most prominent faiths, Islam does have a Global outlook. The criminal laws are mostly same for people of all faiths. It does not favor Muslims over non-Muslims. In civil cases there are differences (Like laws of inheritance). The main problem is so called religious parties often focus on laws that favors their own ideologies (Frequently it has a magical relationship with going to power and grow influence in politics). Muslims cannot pick and chose laws of Allah (SWT). They should try their level best to practice as much as possible. Which includes respecting "Rights" (Haq) of other people. Islamic "Communal agendas" is mainly talking about one God (Not forcing others to this ideology but TALKING about), establish rights of all people, secure peace for the mass. As I mentioned in a recent post BAL was flexible about it's socialist agenda and it helped our country in a big way. We cannot be slaves of "Processes" only, we have to ensure we are following processes properly. For most Muslims in Bangladesh , we are largely "Tradition bound" not religion bound. Guess you can say the same about Hindus as well. As one Hindu scholar mentioned, there is nothing in scriptures of "Sanatana Dharma" prohibiting it's followers from consuming beef but it was a popular movement to "Respond" to Jainism. So Hindus adopted some of the theologies of Jains and stopped eating beef. I feel if we can improve the "Quality" of Islamic education in Bangladesh , it will make our country a better place to live. fortunately there are some bright people who are working hard in educating people about authentic teachings of Islam and hopefully positively impact our country. Shalom! -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy < jnrsr53@yahoo.com > To: mukto-mona < mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, May 6, 2012 7:45 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
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