Tuesday, September 18, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy

"written by an apostate." An apostate doesn't invent anything. He uses authentic religious sources to construct a biography. Karen Armstrong, a former nun, presently agnostic though sympathetic to Islam and it's prophet, has authored a well researched biography of the Prophet not quite with an altogether glorious portrait of a role model. Devout followers would react almost to anything. In the middle age, Christians would burn anybody alive they found heretic. Radical Muslims are going through that phase. However, I am hopeful they would be able to overcome such stage. A society that created Mutazillas during the glorious Abbasid reign could not be lost forever in their own version of dark age.

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:37 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

QR Said: "It is also important to understand that, Muslims are very emotional about their God and messengers (PBUT). We love prophets (PBUT) and feel they were living examples for all of us. So we are protective of our "Gurus/teachers". You may want to consider it as a bad thing, regardless this "understanding" can help you (Or anyone) to deal with Muslims effectively."

Yes, it's very true that Muslims are emotional with God and Prophet. Nothing wrong there! We are only discussing how to react when someone hurts that emotion. As you know, emotional hurt can be dealt with many ways. You can demonstrate against such violation without breaking things. When you start breaking things every time you are angry, resentment over your action will overshadow the reason for your anger. All these violence around the world is just increasing the load of resentment towards Muslim community.

The perception is that - when you hurt feelings of Muslims, violent reaction will ensue. It has been almost predictable. It seems to me that many peaceful Muslims have taken this mantra for granted also. Many think that violent reaction will act as a deterrent to those who will dare to violate Muslim religious feelings in the future. But, is it true? Now, many more avenues are open to hurt feelings of religious people of all faiths. Nobody can stop them. Last night I saw the movie clip. It was not a shock and awe to me, as I have read the life-story of the Prophet in the e-book format before, written by an apostate.

Anyway, this violence will end soon, but the cost of it will be felt by everyone, including those who took part in those destruction. If we advocate non-violent ways to express anger, that will be much more effective in dealing with this issue, because - it will take away the resentment associated with the violence. To get there, we will need help from the religious leaders. Violent response to a hurt feeling can be eliminated only if religious leaders come on board and become vocal against it. In fact, Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia did just that. We need to promote this type of message in every mosque in the world.  That's the point I am trying to make here.

JR

--- On Tue, 9/18/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 7:09 AM

When you said ShreeKrishna had hundreds of wives, I surely knew that you lack knowledge.

>>>>>>>> I did NOT say anything about Sri Krisna (READ my post again!) but it was used as an EXAMPLE to make a POINT. I am pretty sure I have some knowledge about Sri Krisna but it is very little compare to yours. But your overreaction (Not the first time) proven my point AGAIN.

People are sensitive about faith matters. Even self proclaims "Atheists" as well.

I enjoyed reading your post and found myself in AGREEMENT with YOU in most parts.

The problem is most people of the earth we share with don't think like us. When I hear about misinformation about my faith or my respected prophets (PBUT), I try to offer correct information (That is what I have been doing in this forum frequently) as you have suggested.

You said this trailer movie is a crap. Why people who are rioting on the street do not understand that.

>>>>>>>>> primarily for lack of knowledge. Because during the lifetime of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) he faced many harassment, threats, attacks against him (Personal level) and he forgave all personal attacks. In fact he even took care of his enemies when they were in trouble (There is a reason why he is known as prophet of mercy to us!).

One western analyst thought about this phenomenon and said, most of the people who are resorting to violence had dictators as their rulers. So over one or two generations they have seen EVERY parts of their lives controlled by those governments. So it is hard for them to imagine that, in the US government has very little control over media. Specifically the internet related media is new to them. While those of us who have some experience of media freedom (Even military dictators of Bangladesh were liberal about free speech most of the time), we can imagine it. So you have seen smaller protests in our country.

The fact is "Islamic world" has over 1.7 billion members. So even if a small number reacts (Which I feel as counter-productive and a perversion of Islamic teachings), it can grab headlines for weeks!!

Hope this is a little clearer to you. ;-)

It is also important to understand that, Muslims are very emotional about their God and messengers (PBUT). We love prophets (PBUT) and feel they were living examples for all of us. So we are protective of our "Gurus/teachers". You may want to consider it as a bad thing, regardless this "understanding" can help you (Or anyone) to deal with Muslims effectively.

we hardly hear about if there are alternative ways to fight back.

>>>>>>>>> Although mainstream media are attracted to shock value news but in reality most Muslims "Fight back" non-violently. They do what I have been doing here for a while. Which is to offer authentic information about Islam to people who are confused by our surroundings.

In either way, it is not enhancing the image of the Muslim community around the world. That's my analysis as a bystander.

>>>>>>>> 100% agreement with your observation. Too bad I have limited power to influence the mob.

Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:33 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy

When the King of Vijaynagar fell, he had twenty thousand girls in his harem. Given one a day, he would need about fifty five years to deflower them. Obviously, there could not be a better congregation of virgins than such harems. About our beloved 'Kesto Thakur' or 'Sri Krishna' he might be just another celestial figure, e.g., a planet considered a supreme God. His minor consorts being the stars, and major ones are indeed Sun and Moon, Radhika and Chandrabali. His terrestrial existence has no historical evidence whatsoever.

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:06 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

Forget about the debate about what's a free-speech or hate-speech or not. Just think about the following points. When people who do not believe in a particular religion suddenly humiliate or defame religious figures of that religion - what credibility do they have? None, what so ever! It's so predictable. Trust me – people criticize other religions privately all the time; only some people sometimes go public with it. Can't we just brush it off expecting that some crazy people will do it or can we assume that they lack knowledge and perspectives and they will disseminate wrong message? When you said ShreeKrishna had hundreds of wives, I surely knew that you lack knowledge.

Let me correct you from my knowledge of the epical story of ShreeKrishna. ShreeKrishna had 1600 gopies, which may be translated into 1600 girl friends. Again, it needs further perspective to understand the nature of the relationship between Krishna and gopies. Krishna left Gokul, where he had 1600 gopies, for Mathura when he was about 11 years old. Therefore, these gopies had opportunity to mingle with him only from 0 - 11 years of age. Now, you can assert whatever you want to the relationship of Krishna and 1600 gopies. When you said – Krishna had hundreds of wives, it did not surprise or bother me at all; I am sure - it will not bother other Hindus also. I knew you were not aware of the real story behind it.

You said this trailer movie is a crap. Why people who are rioting on the street do not understand that. If they did - they would not give such an attention or publicity to this crap movie. I was not interested in this movie at all in the beginning, but, now with this inordinate importance on the movie, my curiosity has increased thousand-fold. So far, all I know is - it's about Prophet Muhammad. I am guessing - one of the two can happen – the story is either untrue or true. If it is true – it should not bother anybody, because most people probably know it already. If it is untrue, let's tell the world what's the truth, and expose those people who tell such lies. Let's make another movie to tell the truth. In either ways, violence is not needed. However, there is a way to justify violence, and that is - if the story is true, and people want to block its propagation through violence. But, that is almost impossible to do in this day and age, when all you need to make a movie is - a video-camera and a computer or cell-phone to disseminate it throughout the world.

I always hear don't hurt the feelings of the Muslims if you want to stop the violence, but we hardly hear about if there are alternative ways to fight back. I believe some people are fueling the flames to use this issue for something else. In either way, it is not enhancing the image of the Muslim community around the world. That's my analysis as a bystander.

--- On Mon, 9/17/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 17, 2012, 3:00 PM

Gentlemen,

Personally I simply ignore such garbage which does not have any historical links to the characters they claim to portray. During election year, a lot of ugly things happens. It is too early to speak with any certainty about the clip.

What I know about it is it simply supported every "Typical orientalist" stereotype. In popular lingo these are known as "Hit piece" which lacks substance. Albeit I don't think this spoof of the noble messenger of God (PBUH) will do any damage to Islam or the last prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

However I am very sadden to see innocent civilians die because of such lose enforcement of "Hate speech".

Thus, it would be wrong to accuse the US government of 'allowing' this video to be circulated.

>>>>>>>>>> I think it is fair to say we knew that this kind of junk generally gets a reaction from the crowd. I am not worried about my "Honor" or even honor of my religion. Because crap will wash away in few days but this time this little stunt caused few lives!!

I have a little idea about US constitution and how it has been applied in last few hundred years. I am ALSO aware of the FACT that, US sent over 50,000 INNOCENT Japanese-American citizens to internment camps to prevent loss of lives (Of white Americans for all practical purpose). I can give you a very long list of such actions to prevent loss of innocent lives by the constitution bound US government.

I am just shocked to see that, US would risk lives of so many for a home made Amateur movie, which is probably more fitting for Saturday Night live than mainstream movie goers.

Again in the US, if you scream fire (If there is no actual fire) in the middle of a movie theater, you can be arrested for that crime ( I am 100% sure of it). Similarly if someone makes a porn movie about Hindu goddesses and Sri Krisna, they should be arrested as well. Because without context most people will be mislead by such movie. Albeit Sri Krisna is believed to have hundreds of wives by Hindus. Just mentioning without context will give the wrong impression.

Therefore when we deal with such sensitive issues, we have to be more careful for all practical purpose. Here no one knows who made this movie. The actors claims they don't even know about this project. Does it sound or look like a "Normal" movie?

Just like US government increased security measures for "Public safety", they can monitor against abuse of "Free speech". The concept was meant to foster lively discussions, debates among people not hatred, libel, slander against innocent people.

Don't try to give me definition of "Free speech", I think we are mature enough to get past elementary discussion and go deeper.

Therefore, I am not very worried about lives of people who are protesting the movie. Most of them would love to die to show their love for the noble prophet (PBUH) but I am concerned about people who are in the middle of this mess but did not expect such mayhem. I am concerned about thousands of travelers who have to face extra level of scrutiny for this "Crap". The security department workers who have to work extra hours. At the end of the day, it will cost a lot more money to US tax payers for such horrible oversight.

Still I am certain US constitution was not meant to "protect" slander/libel against great people. Also this kind of blunder only helps so called "Communal" wings of our communities. They act as a recruiting agent for such fringe groups.

Even the maker of the movie (Who is believed to be a criminal and fraud) is not defending the movie, why should US government?

Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 17, 2012 6:39 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy

I think QAR does not know the logical definition of "hate speech."

Most Americans, including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and myself, who have strongly condemned the video, "Innocence of Muslims", have found it to be disgusting and distasteful. It is disgusting because it has insulted and mocked the prophet of Islam, which serves no other purpose but making the Muslims angry.

Making someone, or even millions of people, angry or upset does not fall in the category of "hate speech." A "hate speech" would ask people to commit one or more crimes such as killing, torturing, raping, etc. The video did not ask people to commit any such crime. That is why the maker of the video could not be prosecuted under US laws just for making and showing the video. However, the allegations of dubbing to change the words without the approval of the actors, if true, would certainly allow the actors to sue the maker of the video. Of course, any other unrelated crime, such as the bank fraud case that has been in the media, could also land the suspected maker of the video into legal hot waters.

While Hillary Clinton expressed her condemnation of the video, she also said, "We do not stop individual citizens from expressing their views no matter how distasteful they may be." In fact, the US constitution does not give the government the authority to stop individual citizens from expressing their views, no matter how distasteful they may be. Thus, it would be wrong to accuse the US government of 'allowing' this video to be circulated.

Sukhamaya Bain

=================================================
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy

As much as I abhor the u-tube "Filth" some people call a film. I do not think US government would murder it's own diplomat. Like all societies US has it's share of flaws but it also has some great qualities as a country. A per-world war ll insignificant country had some greatness in it to become what it is today. One of my uncles fought for the British Royal Air force during second world war and he told me stories of that war when I was a kid. He said even back then Americans were generous, friendly and loved humor lot more then the "British".

My wife told me yesterday – she heard that - the infamous film was funded by middle-eastern money to spark the violence against the USA.

>>>>>>>> So far bunch of "Middle eastern" fanatic Jews and Christians are suspect behind this very "Unique" project. It is very sad that, a hate filled film(With tons of distorted information) was "Allowed" to circulate and cause so much harm all over the world. Even in the US, free speech is protected but "HATE SPEECH" is against the law. In this digital world even America has to learn to act quickly, because I felt many "Copy cats" are working in their basements with similar projects. I also hope Muslims need to realize these are NOT work of any government. Just some very suspicious groups who work to put "hate" in as many hearts it can. Therefore, it has unmistakeably ME connection but a Jewish/Christian one. (Based on what we know until now). Shalom!

-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 12:03 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy

Let me explain my problem with most of your comments, they are usually 1 – 2 liners. So, usually, we have to guess what you mean. I am glad that you clarified your political bent. I believe, most people in this forum support democratic platform. That's fine with me. Political talks in this forum is meaningless. I can give hundred reasons why I support other party, but - nobody will change their mind. Then what's the point. So, let's stay away from politics.

The other issue you raised is interesting. You said you are staying away from US pressure-cooker society. I am not sure what that means. As far as I know, a substantial part of your life has been spent in the USA; you received higher education here, and worked here until retirement. Now, you feel US society is a pressure-cooker, and you live outside. It will be interesting if you care to explain a bit more on this, because I also think this society is moving away from the traditional values that made this country great. I do not like what I see recently.

You said that USA arranged and/or sat back while Japan attacked the Pearl Harbor, so that they can bomb Japan into Stone Age. It is apparent from your statements that – you are a contrarian, and believe in the conspiracy theories. You probably also believe 9/11 was planned by George Bush administration so they can attack Afghanistan and Iraq. My wife told me yesterday – she heard that - the infamous film was funded by middle-eastern money to spark the violence against the USA. All these are a bit nutty to me, to put it mildly. Then again, what do I know about the truth? After all, human-beings are the most dangerous animals on the planet.

Jiten Roy

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[mukto-mona] Fw: Al-Bodar commander Mir Kashem Ali with Niazi [Bangladesh 1971)

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: SyedAslam <syed.aslam3@gmail.com>
To: notun Bangladesh <notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:08 AM
Subject: Al-Bodar commander Mir Kashem Ali with Niazi [Bangladesh 1971)

Al-Bodar commander Mir Kashem Ali with Niazi [Bangladesh 1971)

***মীর কাশেম আলী - এক ভয়ঙ্কর রক্তপিপাসু হায়েনার নাম***

যুদ্ধের শেষ দিককার একটি ঘটনা। বিবিসিতে প্রতিবেদন হলো মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের ভয়ে থাইল্যান্ড পালিয়েছেন পাকবাহিনীর জেনারেল টাইগার (!) নিয়াজী। রেগে আগুন হয়ে নিয়াজী এলেন তৎকালীন হোটেল ইন্টারকন্টিনেন্টালে। খুঁজে বেড়ালেন বিবিসির প্রতিনিধিকে, হোটেলের সামনে দাঁড়িয়ে করলেন এক সংবাদ সম্মেলন এবং অস্বীকার করলেন তিনি আত্মসমর্পণ করবেন না কোনভাবেই। (ভিডিওঃ http://bit.ly/MdJSo7) কিন্তু আজকের এই লেখাটির লক্ষ্য নিয়াজীর হিপোক্র্যাসী তুলে ধরা নয়, লেখাটির উদ্দেশ্য নিয়াজীর ঠিক পেছনের শাদা শার্ট, কাল চশমা পরিহিত মানুষটিকে নিয়ে। নাম তার মীর কাশেম আলী। পরিচয়, জামায়াতে ইসলামীর ছাত্র সংঘের চট্টগ্রামের হর্তাকর্তা, আলবদরের প্রধান কমান্ডারদের একজন। আজও যার ভয়ঙ্কর পৈশাচিকতার স্বাক্ষী নিয়ে দাঁড়িয়ে আছে আন্দরকিল্লার ফরেস্ট গেটের ডালিম হোটেল।

ডাক নাম ছিল মিন্টু, চার ভাইয়ের মধ্যে দ্বিতীয়। মূলত পিতার চাকরীর সুবাদেই চট্টগ্রাম আগমন এবং চট্টগ্রাম কলেজে পড়া অবস্থাতেই জামায়াতে ইসলামীর ছাত্র সংঘের(বর্তমানে ছাত্র শিবির) সাথে তার জড়িত হওয়া। চাটুকারীতা এবং পাকিস্তানপন্থীদের পক্ষে দালালীর সুবাদে তাকে নিযুক্ত করা হয় চট্টগ্রামের ছাত্র সংঘের প্রধান হিসেবে। মুক্তিযুদ্ধ শুরু হলে প্রথমে মীর কাশে আলী স্বেচ্ছায় চট্টগ্রাম আঞ্চলে রাজাকার বাহিনীর কমান্ড নিজ হাতে তুলে নেয়।

১৯৭১ সালের ২ আগস্ট চট্টগ্রাম মুসলিম ইন্সটিটিউটে তার নেতৃত্বে স্বাধীনতা বিরোধী সমাবেশ আয়োজন করা হয়। সভাপতি হিসেবে সে তার ভাষণে বলে গ্রামে গঞ্জে প্রতিটি এলাকায় খুঁজে খুঁজে পাকিস্তান বিরোধীদের শেষ চিহ্নটি মুছে ফেলতে হবে। এক সময় রাজাকার বাহিনী থেকে দক্ষদের উচ্চতর প্রশিক্ষনের মাধ্যমে কুখ্যাত আলবদর বাহিনী গঠন করা হলে যথারীতি বেঈমান, নরপশু মীর কাশেম আলী নিজ থেকেই বুঝে নেয় আলবদর কমান্ডারের দায়িত্ব। নতুন দায়িত্ব পেয়ে আরো বেপোরোয়া ভাবে বাঙ্গালী হত্যায় মেতে ওঠে এই নরখাদক। ডালিম হোটেলে স্থাপন করে তার হেডকোয়ার্টার তথা বন্দিশালা যেখান থেকে ১৭ ডিসেম্বরসাড়ে তিনশ বন্দীকে প্রায় মৃত অবস্থায় উদ্ধার করা হয়। এদের বেশীরভাগই ছিল মুক্তিযোদ্ধা নয়ত মুক্তিযুদ্ধের স্বপক্ষের বুদ্ধিজীবি।

তার এই ধরনের নৃশংসতার ফলশ্রুতিতে পরিণত হয় পাকিস্তানী জেনারেল নিয়াজী, রাওফরমান আলীদের পোষা এবং বিশ্বস্ত কুকুরে। তাই ঢাকায় এসে পাকিস্তানী জেনারেলদের সাথে নিয়মিত বুদ্ধিজীবি হত্যার শালাপরামর্শে ব্যস্ত থাকতো এই নরপশু।

যুদ্ধ শেষে তারই মত আরেক কুলাঙ্গার মওলানা মঈনুদ্দীনের সাথে প্রথমে পালান বৃটেন, তারপর সৌদি আরবে। সেখান থেকে বঙ্গবন্ধুর মৃত্যুর পর পুনরায় ফিরে আসেন দেশে এবং ইসলামী শাসনতন্ত্র প্রতিষ্ঠার নামে মধ্যপ্রাচ্য থেকে তুলে আনেন বেশ মোটা অঙ্কের টাকা। একে একে গড়ে তুলেন সৌদী দাতব্য প্রতিষ্ঠান রাবেতা, ইসলামী ব্যাঙ্ক, ইবনে সিনা সহ একাধিক প্রতিষ্ঠান যার মাধ্যমে জামায়াতী অর্থনীতিতে সার্কুলেট হচ্ছে হাজার কোটি টাকা। এখন তিনি জামায়াতের বড় নেতা, তাদের অর্থনীতির মূল চালিকাশক্তি।

সম্প্রতি যুদ্ধাপরাধের বিচার শুরু হবা মাত্র জামায়াতের পুরোনো প্রভু আমেরিকান সরকারের কাছে লবি করবার জন্য আড়াইশ কোটি টাকা ব্যয়ে নিয়োগ দেন Cassidy and Associates কে (প্রামাণ দেখুন আমেরিকান কংগ্রেসের সাইটে (http://on.fb.me/NB2IZs) । শুধু তাই নয়, এই বিচার ঠেকাতে কোটি কোটি টাকা ব্যয়ে একের পর এক বুদ্ধিজীবি, সাংবাদিক,সরকারী কর্মকর্তাকে কিনে নিচ্ছেন এই যুদ্ধাপরাধী।

এত কিছুর পরও আজ অবশেষে গ্রেফতার হলেন একাত্তরের এই খুনে রাজাকার মীর কাশেম আলী। অর্জিত হলো একাত্তরের নরপশুদের বিচারের আরেকটি মাইলফলক। এখন প্রত্যাশা একটাই, ফাঁসী চাই অতি দ্রুত।

আসুন সবাই কন্ঠ মিলিয়ে বলিঃ

ঘাতক, তুমি সরে দাঁড়াও সামনে থেকে এই সময়ে,
চতুর্দিকে আবার দেখো উঠছে শ্লোগান একাত্তরের
তাকিয়ে দেখো তরুন চোখে মশাল জ্বলে প্রতিবাদের
ভাঙবো আবার দম্ভ তোমার, ভাঙবো আবার স্বপ্ন তোমার,
ভাঙবো তোমার পদযুগল ভাঙবো আবার দুহাত তোমার।

লিখেছেন মিকি মাউস ১৭ জুন ২০১২, রাত ১১:৩৪

http://m.sonarbangladesh.com/blog/nayemhbuc/114982

Re: [mukto-mona] 5 Million Farmers Sue Monsanto for $7.7 Billion

From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2012 10:25 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] 5 Million Farmers Sue Monsanto for $7.7 Billion

Please try to understand the importance of this news --- it affects us also. Please also read the comments after the main news item.

Farida Majid

Five million farmers are suing Monsanto over excessive royalty fees. (photo: Friends Eat)

5 Million Farmers Sue Monsanto for $7.7 Billion

By Anthony Gucciardi, Natural Society

06 June 12

aunching a lawsuit against the very company that is responsible for a farmer suicide every 30 minutes, 5 million farmers are now suing Monsanto for as much as 6.2 billion euros (around 7.7 billion US dollars). The reason? As with many other cases, such as the ones that led certain farming regions to be known as the'suicide belt', Monsanto has been reportedly taxing the farmers to financial shambles with ridiculous royalty charges. The farmers state that Monsanto has been unfairly gathering exorbitant profits each year on a global scale from "renewal" seed harvests, which are crops planted using seed from the previous year's harvest.

The practice of using renewal seeds dates back to ancient times, but Monsanto seeks to collect massive royalties and put an end to the practice. Why? Because Monsanto owns the very patent to the genetically modified seed, and is charging the farmers not only for the original crops, but the later harvests as well. Eventually, the royalties compound and many farmers begin to struggle with even keeping their farm afloat. It is for this reason that India slammed Monsanto with groundbreaking 'biopiracy' charges in an effort to stop Monsanto from 'patenting life'.

Jane Berwanger, a lawyer for the farmers who went on record regarding the case, told the Associted Press:

"Monsanto gets paid when it sell the seeds. The law gives producers the right to multiply the seeds they buy and nowhere in the world is there a requirement to pay (again). Producers are in effect paying a private tax on production."

The findings echo what thousands of farmers have experienced in particularly poor nations, where many of the farmers are unable to stand up to Monsanto. Back in 2008, the Daily Mail covered what is known as the 'GM Genocide', which is responsible for taking the lives of over 17,683 Indian farmers in 2009 alone. After finding that their harvests were failing and they started to enter economic turmoil, the farmers began ending their own lives — oftentimes drinking the very same insecticide that Monsanto provided them with.

As the information continues to surface on Monsanto's crimes, further lawsuits will begin to take effect. After it was ousted in January that Monsanto was running illegal 'slave-like' working rings, more individuals became aware of just how seriously Monsanto seems to disregard their workers — so why would they care for the health of their consumers? In April, another group of farmers sued Monsanto for 'knowingly poisoning' workers and causing 'devastating birth defects'.

Will endless lawsuits from millions of seriously affected individuals be the end of Monsanto?

Comments

- The RSN Team

+20 # Holyone 2012-06-06 13:00

And Obama is having these people to "help" Africa? WE need to bombard the President's phonelines.

Stop complaing and do something. Start a petition... you chronic complainers. I will sign it.

+25 # CandH 2012-06-06 14:47

Holyone, you are confused. A petition IS a form of formal, in writing complaint about a policy/law/etc, and is not unlike writing a comment, albeit informal in nature, on an online forum, which like RSN, actually designs their forums for commenters to actually do that. Shocking, I know. Sometimes it's a form of brainstorming, getting the gel right, testing the waters, finding just the right Zen in the argument to launch that formal petition. We don't need to be censored all the time, exclaiming that we are complaining too much, and not doing enough.

Worse, you have no idea what people are doing outside this forum in an active, participatory way. Why would you suggest that you inherently do know all that transgress' beyond these zeros and ones? It's like wagging your finger at people for wagging their finger. Do as I say, not as I do?

+4 # KittatinyHawk 2012-06-07 18:09

There are petitions, I have said it CareONe a Petition Site Free. If you go to search and look for current petitions to help Europe and Western Farmers there are Organizations out there asking for petitions. One was NRDC, Union of Concerned Scientists, Biodiversity ...well I hear from over 40 groups a day on many Environmental and Wildlife etc issues. It is proven that these crops are killing our songbirds, bees, affecting Wildlife...not to mention the Earth and Runoff water into rivers and eventually Wells. We have proven Cancer rates going up, children with more breathing problems not necessarily asthma.

I believe that Obama and his wife were sold a bill of goods, this last meeting where protestors were... I think Ms OB is wondering...you see there is conveniently so much not told, Studies not shown(there arent any long term studies because they change the formula daily kind of like those bath salts kids are using) I hope we get Monsanto and their buddies. Agent Orange was to be disposed of, never used again Here it is! And it always is used on Poor and Third World Countries. That is why we are eating Lead and Mercury from China

What goes around is coming back around. I was out there warning you all 40 years ago. I was warning the Third World Countries too.

+55 # RnR 2012-06-06 14:40

Now does anybody see any tactics that are different than the government? The Russians know what's going on - they were aware that the farmers were impossible to conquer due to their self sufficiency. If I ever wanted to vomit it is everytime I hear the name Monsanto.

+1 # KittatinyHawk 2012-06-07 18:14

I have a lot of names that come to mind and nauseate me...

+38 # Lisa Moskow 2012-06-06 20:33

Certainly Monsanto is up there as just about the most evil corporation on the planet.

So glad to hear about these lawsuits against them!

+13 # John Locke 2012-06-07 06:25

Gee Didn't I read somewhere that someone from Monsanto is in the Obama Administration!

Michael R. Taylor's appointment by the Obama administration to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) on July 7th 2009, sparked immediate debate and even outrage among many food and agriculture researchers, NGOs and activists. But American's have a short memory, perhaps from eating Monsanto's GMO Corn!

HE WAS The Vice President for Public Policy at Monsanto Corp. from 1998 until 2001, Now he is an Obama appointment...

who reading this article really thinks Obama cares about anyone but himself and his personal finances...

Obama will do nothing about Monsanto while this nauseating company continues to cause serious organ damage to people world wide and as long as Obama has a financial future as pay back, Monsanto, Wall Street his list of financial supporters grows daily as more comes out about this bumb...

Hey, but we need this creep in the White House another 4 years...God help us for what he will accomplish if he should be re-elected...

+13 # bbaldwin 2012-06-07 07:00

No DONALD RUMSFIELD OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION was part of Monsanto. This is just the way half truths get started. Rumsfield has made millions off of Monsanto.

+13 # acermay 2012-06-07 09:02

Michael R. Taylor's appointment by the Obama administration to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) on July 7th sparked immediate debate and even outrage among many food and agriculture researchers, NGOs and activists. The Vice President for Public Policy at Monsanto Corp. from 1998 until 2001, Taylor exemplifies the revolving door between the food industry and the government agencies that regulate it. He is reviled for shaping and implementing the government's favorable agricultural biotechnology policies during the Clinton administration.

+8 # bluepilgrim 2012-06-07 09:03

No half truth...
don't make it up -- look it up:

http://cleanfoodearth.blogspot.com/2012/03/meet-our-monsanto-dupont-usa-government.html link to
http://www.organicconsumers.org/usda_watch.cfm

Also http://redgreenandblue.org/2011/02/09/monsanto-employees-in-the-halls-of-government/

http://wellfedneighbor.ning.com/profiles/blogs/obama-appoints-monsanto-man-as

+3 # paulrevere 2012-06-07 09:29

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy

QR Said: "It is also important to understand that, Muslims are very emotional about their God and messengers (PBUT). We love prophets (PBUT) and feel they were living examples for all of us. So we are protective of our "Gurus/teachers". You may want to consider it as a bad thing, regardless this "understanding" can help you (Or anyone) to deal with Muslims effectively."

Yes, it's very true that Muslims are emotional with God and Prophet. Nothing wrong there! We are only discussing how to react when someone hurts that emotion. As you know, emotional hurt can be dealt with many ways. You can demonstrate against such violation without breaking things. When you start breaking things every time you are angry, resentment over your action will overshadow the reason for your anger. All these violence around the world is just increasing the load of resentment towards Muslim community.

The perception is that - when you hurt feelings of Muslims, violent reaction will ensue. It has been almost predictable. It seems to me that many peaceful Muslims have taken this mantra for granted also. Many think that violent reaction will act as a deterrent to those who will dare to violate Muslim religious feelings in the future. But, is it true? Now, many more avenues are open to hurt feelings of religious people of all faiths. Nobody can stop them. Last night I saw the movie clip. It was not a shock and awe to me, as I have read the life-story of the Prophet in the e-book format before, written by an apostate.

Anyway, this violence will end soon, but the cost of it will be felt by everyone, including those who took part in those destructions. If we advocate non-violent ways to express anger, that will be much more effective in dealing with this issue, because - it will take away the resentment associated with the violence. To get there, we will need help from the religious leaders. Violent response to a hurt feeling can be eliminated only if religious leaders come on board and become vocal against it. In fact, Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia did just that. We need to promote this type of message in every mosque in the world. That's the point I am trying to make here.

JR

--- On Tue, 9/18/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 7:09 AM

When you said ShreeKrishna had hundreds of wives, I surely knew that you lack knowledge.

>>>>>>>> I did NOT say anything about Sri Krisna (READ my post again!) but it was used as an EXAMPLE to make a POINT. I am pretty sure I have some knowledge about Sri Krisna but it is very little compare to yours. But your overreaction (Not the first time) proven my point AGAIN.

People are sensitive about faith matters. Even self proclaims "Atheists" as well.

I enjoyed reading your post and found myself in AGREEMENT with YOU in most parts.

The problem is most people of the earth we share with don't think like us. When I hear about misinformation about my faith or my respected prophets (PBUT), I try to offer correct information (That is what I have been doing in this forum frequently) as you have suggested.

You said this trailer movie is a crap. Why people who are rioting on the street do not understand that.

>>>>>>>>> primarily for lack of knowledge. Because during the lifetime of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) he faced many harassment, threats, attacks against him (Personal level) and he forgave all personal attacks. In fact he even took care of his enemies when they were in trouble (There is a reason why he is known as prophet of mercy to us!).

One western analyst thought about this phenomenon and said, most of the people who are resorting to violence had dictators as their rulers. So over one or two generations they have seen EVERY parts of their lives controlled by those governments. So it is hard for them to imagine that, in the US government has very little control over media. Specifically the internet related media is new to them. While those of us who have some experience of media freedom (Even military dictators of Bangladesh were liberal about free speech most of the time), we can imagine it. So you have seen smaller protests in our country.

The fact is "Islamic world" has over 1.7 billion members. So even if a small number reacts (Which I feel as counter-productive and a perversion of Islamic teachings), it can grab headlines for weeks!!

Hope this is a little clearer to you. ;-)

It is also important to understand that, Muslims are very emotional about their God and messengers (PBUT). We love prophets (PBUT) and feel they were living examples for all of us. So we are protective of our "Gurus/teachers". You may want to consider it as a bad thing, regardless this "understanding" can help you (Or anyone) to deal with Muslims effectively.

we hardly hear about if there are alternative ways to fight back.

>>>>>>>>> Although mainstream media are attracted to shock value news but in reality most Muslims "Fight back" non-violently. They do what I have been doing here for a while. Which is to offer authentic information about Islam to people who are confused by our surroundings.

In either way, it is not enhancing the image of the Muslim community around the world. That's my analysis as a bystander.

>>>>>>>> 100% agreement with your observation. Too bad I have limited power to influence the mob.

Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Sep 18, 2012 8:33 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy

When the King of Vijaynagar fell, he had twenty thousand girls in his harem. Given one a day, he would need about fifty five years to deflower them. Obviously, there could not be a better congregation of virgins than such harems. About our beloved 'Kesto Thakur' or 'Sri Krishna' he might be just another celestial figure, e.g., a planet considered a supreme God. His minor consorts being the stars, and major ones are indeed Sun and Moon, Radhika and Chandrabali. His terrestrial existence has no historical evidence whatsoever.

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:06 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

Forget about the debate about what's a free-speech or hate-speech or not. Just think about the following points. When people who do not believe in a particular religion suddenly humiliate or defame religious figures of that religion - what credibility do they have? None, what so ever! It's so predictable. Trust me – people criticize other religions privately all the time; only some people sometimes go public with it. Can't we just brush it off expecting that some crazy people will do it or can we assume that they lack knowledge and perspectives and they will disseminate wrong message? When you said ShreeKrishna had hundreds of wives, I surely knew that you lack knowledge.

Let me correct you from my knowledge of the epical story of ShreeKrishna. ShreeKrishna had 1600 gopies, which may be translated into 1600 girl friends. Again, it needs further perspective to understand the nature of the relationship between Krishna and gopies. Krishna left Gokul, where he had 1600 gopies, for Mathura when he was about 11 years old. Therefore, these gopies had opportunity to mingle with him only from 0 - 11 years of age. Now, you can assert whatever you want to the relationship of Krishna and 1600 gopies. When you said – Krishna had hundreds of wives, it did not surprise or bother me at all; I am sure - it will not bother other Hindus also. I knew you were not aware of the real story behind it.

You said this trailer movie is a crap. Why people who are rioting on the street do not understand that. If they did - they would not give such an attention or publicity to this crap movie. I was not interested in this movie at all in the beginning, but, now with this inordinate importance on the movie, my curiosity has increased thousand-fold. So far, all I know is - it's about Prophet Muhammad. I am guessing - one of the two can happen – the story is either untrue or true. If it is true – it should not bother anybody, because most people probably know it already. If it is untrue, let's tell the world what's the truth, and expose those people who tell such lies. Let's make another movie to tell the truth. In either ways, violence is not needed. However, there is a way to justify violence, and that is - if the story is true, and people want to block its propagation through violence. But, that is almost impossible to do in this day and age, when all you need to make a movie is - a video-camera and a computer or cell-phone to disseminate it throughout the world.

I always hear don't hurt the feelings of the Muslims if you want to stop the violence, but we hardly hear about if there are alternative ways to fight back. I believe some people are fueling the flames to use this issue for something else. In either way, it is not enhancing the image of the Muslim community around the world. That's my analysis as a bystander.

--- On Mon, 9/17/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 17, 2012, 3:00 PM

Gentlemen,

Personally I simply ignore such garbage which does not have any historical links to the characters they claim to portray. During election year, a lot of ugly things happens. It is too early to speak with any certainty about the clip.

What I know about it is it simply supported every "Typical orientalist" stereotype. In popular lingo these are known as "Hit piece" which lacks substance. Albeit I don't think this spoof of the noble messenger of God (PBUH) will do any damage to Islam or the last prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

However I am very sadden to see innocent civilians die because of such lose enforcement of "Hate speech".

Thus, it would be wrong to accuse the US government of 'allowing' this video to be circulated.

>>>>>>>>>> I think it is fair to say we knew that this kind of junk generally gets a reaction from the crowd. I am not worried about my "Honor" or even honor of my religion. Because crap will wash away in few days but this time this little stunt caused few lives!!

I have a little idea about US constitution and how it has been applied in last few hundred years. I am ALSO aware of the FACT that, US sent over 50,000 INNOCENT Japanese-American citizens to internment camps to prevent loss of lives (Of white Americans for all practical purpose). I can give you a very long list of such actions to prevent loss of innocent lives by the constitution bound US government.

I am just shocked to see that, US would risk lives of so many for a home made Amateur movie, which is probably more fitting for Saturday Night live than mainstream movie goers.

Again in the US, if you scream fire (If there is no actual fire) in the middle of a movie theater, you can be arrested for that crime ( I am 100% sure of it). Similarly if someone makes a porn movie about Hindu goddesses and Sri Krisna, they should be arrested as well. Because without context most people will be mislead by such movie. Albeit Sri Krisna is believed to have hundreds of wives by Hindus. Just mentioning without context will give the wrong impression.

Therefore when we deal with such sensitive issues, we have to be more careful for all practical purpose. Here no one knows who made this movie. The actors claims they don't even know about this project. Does it sound or look like a "Normal" movie?

Just like US government increased security measures for "Public safety", they can monitor against abuse of "Free speech". The concept was meant to foster lively discussions, debates among people not hatred, libel, slander against innocent people.

Don't try to give me definition of "Free speech", I think we are mature enough to get past elementary discussion and go deeper.

Therefore, I am not very worried about lives of people who are protesting the movie. Most of them would love to die to show their love for the noble prophet (PBUH) but I am concerned about people who are in the middle of this mess but did not expect such mayhem. I am concerned about thousands of travelers who have to face extra level of scrutiny for this "Crap". The security department workers who have to work extra hours. At the end of the day, it will cost a lot more money to US tax payers for such horrible oversight.

Still I am certain US constitution was not meant to "protect" slander/libel against great people. Also this kind of blunder only helps so called "Communal" wings of our communities. They act as a recruiting agent for such fringe groups.

Even the maker of the movie (Who is believed to be a criminal and fraud) is not defending the movie, why should US government?

Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 17, 2012 6:39 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy

I think QAR does not know the logical definition of "hate speech."

Most Americans, including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and myself, who have strongly condemned the video, "Innocence of Muslims", have found it to be disgusting and distasteful. It is disgusting because it has insulted and mocked the prophet of Islam, which serves no other purpose but making the Muslims angry.

Making someone, or even millions of people, angry or upset does not fall in the category of "hate speech." A "hate speech" would ask people to commit one or more crimes such as killing, torturing, raping, etc. The video did not ask people to commit any such crime. That is why the maker of the video could not be prosecuted under US laws just for making and showing the video. However, the allegations of dubbing to change the words without the approval of the actors, if true, would certainly allow the actors to sue the maker of the video. Of course, any other unrelated crime, such as the bank fraud case that has been in the media, could also land the suspected maker of the video into legal hot waters.

While Hillary Clinton expressed her condemnation of the video, she also said, "We do not stop individual citizens from expressing their views no matter how distasteful they may be." In fact, the US constitution does not give the government the authority to stop individual citizens from expressing their views, no matter how distasteful they may be. Thus, it would be wrong to accuse the US government of 'allowing' this video to be circulated.

Sukhamaya Bain

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From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy

As much as I abhor the u-tube "Filth" some people call a film. I do not think US government would murder it's own diplomat. Like all societies US has it's share of flaws but it also has some great qualities as a country. A per-world war ll insignificant country had some greatness in it to become what it is today. One of my uncles fought for the British Royal Air force during second world war and he told me stories of that war when I was a kid. He said even back then Americans were generous, friendly and loved humor lot more then the "British".

My wife told me yesterday – she heard that - the infamous film was funded by middle-eastern money to spark the violence against the USA.

>>>>>>>> So far bunch of "Middle eastern" fanatic Jews and Christians are suspect behind this very "Unique" project. It is very sad that, a hate filled film(With tons of distorted information) was "Allowed" to circulate and cause so much harm all over the world. Even in the US, free speech is protected but "HATE SPEECH" is against the law. In this digital world even America has to learn to act quickly, because I felt many "Copy cats" are working in their basements with similar projects. I also hope Muslims need to realize these are NOT work of any government. Just some very suspicious groups who work to put "hate" in as many hearts it can. Therefore, it has unmistakeably ME connection but a Jewish/Christian one. (Based on what we know until now). Shalom!

-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 12:03 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy

Let me explain my problem with most of your comments, they are usually 1 – 2 liners. So, usually, we have to guess what you mean. I am glad that you clarified your political bent. I believe, most people in this forum support democratic platform. That's fine with me. Political talks in this forum is meaningless. I can give hundred reasons why I support other party, but - nobody will change their mind. Then what's the point. So, let's stay away from politics.

The other issue you raised is interesting. You said you are staying away from US pressure-cooker society. I am not sure what that means. As far as I know, a substantial part of your life has been spent in the USA; you received higher education here, and worked here until retirement. Now, you feel US society is a pressure-cooker, and you live outside. It will be interesting if you care to explain a bit more on this, because I also think this society is moving away from the traditional values that made this country great. I do not like what I see recently.

You said that USA arranged and/or sat back while Japan attacked the Pearl Harbor, so that they can bomb Japan into Stone Age. It is apparent from your statements that – you are a contrarian, and believe in the conspiracy theories. You probably also believe 9/11 was planned by George Bush administration so they can attack Afghanistan and Iraq. My wife told me yesterday – she heard that - the infamous film was funded by middle-eastern money to spark the violence against the USA. All these are a bit nutty to me, to put it mildly. Then again, what do I know about the truth? After all, human-beings are the most dangerous animals on the planet.

Jiten Roy

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Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy

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