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Friday, March 22, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: কি ভাই!! থেমে আছ�? আরো বেশ�- আরো জোর�, বাংলাদে



That's exactly what I am referring to. The statement that all criminals have to be punished is a general statement which is all right. But sometimes we need to be specific. This time it has been pretty clear that  Jamat is involved in all atrocious activities against the religious minorities as well as in killing police. If you can be so specifically vocal against AL (your favorite acronym BAL), why don't you at least once mention Jamat as a perpetrator! Jamat has a long history of being communal party let alone it's role in 1971. We have among us a lot of people who are like this and I call this behavior intellectual dishonesty. 
Probably you have noticed that when appropriate unhesitatingly I criticize AL including Mujib although to me AL is a better choice than BNP. If Jamat is a party of your preference (which is not unlikely because of your and Jamat's common attitude to Islamic rule, Sharia Law, and Sharia banking) and if you openly express it, I will respect your opinion. 
Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 21, 2013, at 10:12 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

 

Thanks for your response. The fact remains that this time the attacks are coming from Jamat. We all need to be specific and vocal and must not dilute the issue too much by bringing side issues. This is not the time for Intellectual dishonesty. 

>>>>>>>> My position is consistent over the years. Criminals needs to be punished. If we start "Cherry picking" my criminals and "Opposition criminals", the whole process will lose weight. I am seeking PURE "Intellectual HONESTY". Nothing more...


Shalom!






-----Original Message-----
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 21, 2013 7:09 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: কি ভাই!! থেমে আছ�? আরো বেশ�- আরো জোর�, বাংলাদে

 
Thanks for your response. The fact remains that this time the attacks are coming from Jamat. We all need to be specific and vocal and must not dilute the issue too much by bringing side issues. This is not the time for Intellectual dishonesty. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 19, 2013, at 10:24 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

 
I ONLY share what Islam says about certain issues. I am NOT promoting any platform and like to stay true "Mukto-mona" as much as possible. So I can criticize when criticism is the right thing to do and I share information about Islam, so you (And rest of members) can judge who is following Islam and who is breaking fundamental laws/ideals of Islam. 

This time all the attacks have allegedly come from Jamat. BNP


>>>>>>>>> These "Allegations" should be looked into and our government has to remember that, they are "Government of Bangladesh" not a party. So they have people's mandate to govern the whole country. Therefore whoever commit any crime (Jamaat, BNP, BAL or anyone) should be punished.

There has been a disturbing report about young boy name Toki, who was murdered. His own father (A leader of BAL) publicly blamed another BAL leader from Narayangong. We want to see justice delivered in our country as I know our honorable PM knows very well what it feels like losing young members of family. Similarly the Biswajit incident is forgotten and I hope the "Minority Unity council" will stay out of politics and speak with same voice for all victims. So far they tend to "Promote" BAL narrative and it is harmful for mainstream minority population in the long run. So they have to tread carefully if they want to speak up for certain political parties or speak on behalf of all minorities regardless who were the attacker.

As I said earlier, according to Mr. Shahriar Kabir (Discussed in ATN TV talk show hosted by Mr. Shamal Dutta) around 8,000 violent incidents took place where Muslims were involved and rest 2,000 incidents involved minorities.


Therefore, casualty of Muslim population is quite high and the image of "Muslims attacking Hindus" for their faith is inaccurate for most incidents ( I am sure there are some exceptions). Largely it has been a political clash between supporters of different political parties.

Shalom (May peace be unto you)! 






-----Original Message-----
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Mar 17, 2013 7:39 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: কি ভাই!! থেমে আছ�? আরো বেশ�- আরো জোর�, বাংলাদে

 
Jamat-e-Islami is an Islamic party. Looks like it does not follow the Islamic Dhimmi principle. This time all the attacks have allegedly come from Jamat. BNP and many intellectuals however do not believe it. In 2001 the attack came from BNP. Has AL ever attacked Hindus as a party? I don't remember. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 16, 2013, at 9:04 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

 
I feel we (Everyone of all religion) have to sit down and think about to change this situation permanently. First of all, according to Mr. Shahriar Kabir (Leader of ghatak-dalal-nirmul committee) there were around 10,000 incidents took place since the Kader Mollah and Delwar Hossain verdict came out. Among them close to 2,000 incidents involved our non-Muslim citizens (Hindu, Christians and other minorities). He revealed this number in front of advocate Rana Das Gupta (Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council) in a talk show at ATN TV. Advocate Rana did not dispute the number provided by Mr. Shahriar Kabir. I am sure all of us agree that, Shahriar Kabir is NOT a Jamaat spokes person!!

There is no denying our weak part of the society take the brunt of "Political game" that takes place roughly every five years in Bangladesh. NOT only Hindus, many Muslim families face very difficult situation during election season. The Hindu community faces an additional "Difficulty" of being attacked by land grabbing thugs who take advantage of weak police and try to gobble up properties of Hindus. So in addition to political clashes (Which take place all over the country between supporters of BNP, BAL Jatiya party and Jamaat supporters), some people are victims of personal grudges. For example, son of an BAL leader in Narayangang was murdered and the family did not blame Jammat for it, rather it pointed at another faction of BAL party.


There are other reports of going after political and local opponents as well. So we have focus on saving the most vulnerable citizens who are being targeted for their property or political allegiance. It is really heart breaking to see that, even non political people are not spared.

Guess armed political conflicts are difficult to handle for common people like us (Unarmed). So we have to speak up for those people (OF all faith) who cannot speak up in our system. I urge coalition leaders to put enough pressure on our governments (Regardless who is in power) to look at this issue. Otherwise minorities will be played for politics like Muslims are played in India!!


We speak a lot of about 1971 and patriotism. This is the time to speak up. I am glad "Gonojagoron Moncho" is arranging "Unity Moncho" to show our solidarity with our non-Muslim brothers and sisters who are victims of violence for political alliances.


As I spoke frequently, it is Islamic ideal to offer protection to non-Muslim crowd (Thus the name "Dhimmi/dhimma" or protected comes from). Now we are neither Islamic nor secular. We have to reinforce our values in administration and young people should keep an eye on this issue.


Frequently I spoke about empowering police and judicial system. Little did I know the need of it will be so apparent so quickly!!


I urge everyone of us to unite in "Fundamental national issues". We may differ in minor issues but this is our


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Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do



I guess things are more complicated and deep rooted than what Roy has mentioned. ISI as a "more capable" intelligence agency (like CIA, KGB, RAW, etc.) has been serving the interests of the state (clearly not the people of the state) of Pakistan. It has been effectively used by the heads of the state or government with army or bureaucratic background. Army and ISI constitute a joint venture. Those who come to power with people's mandate are naturally comparatively more confident and hence independence minded and try to lead or rule the country according to their own socio-economic and political agenda. Examples in this group include Bhutto, Benazir Bhutto, and Nawaz Shariff. All of them were less inclined to be swayed by the army+ISI interests. They rather wanted to control this group for their own interests and thereby brought in their own fall. A well founded, strong, and lingering democracy will weaken the army-ISI force as a rival of the civil government. This will also minimize the direct foreign (USA is a big example) influence on this group.The way the army dictators (or bureaucrat presidents) have utilized ISI has caused tremendous harm to Pakistan. There are conspiracy theories, for example, that Ziaul Haque and subsequently Parvez Musharraf sponsored anti Shiite militant groups. There are conspiracy theories like this related to Sind and Balochistan (to divide the democratic resistances there), and Kashmir also. Probably the Kargil war was not initiated by Nawaz Shaiff. He was also not in favor of strengthening the Taliban in Afghanistan. Benazir was in favor of good relations with India. These moves by the democratically elected governments were against the interests of army-ISI group.
I never blame people, I rather blame the leaders.
Pakistan politics cannot be fully understood without taking into consideration of the global politics and the power game of the super powers.
           

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
 
Where did I go wrong in my assertion? I said that ISI has instilled a sense of insecurity in the psyche of the people of Pakistan through an organized propaganda campaign of the imminent threat from India. This is to create a perpetual support and dependency on Military establishment.
 
The threat from Indian aggression is the biggest reason why people of Pakistan feel secured with the Military establishment more than the democratic system. 
 
ISI campaign encompasses education, religious, social, and governmental establishments. To sustain the threat from India, there needs to be active military confrontations with India always; Kashmir is the sacrificial lamb ready for that. Also, Pakistan needs to align with the anti-Indian forces, which will keep the animosity between India and Pakistan alive. All these conditions favor military establishments, not democracy. Even politicians like Zulfikar Ali Bhutto used that fear-factor for political survival. There was no other choice left.
 
 
Jiten Roy


--- On Thu, 3/21/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, March 21, 2013, 9:14 PM

 
Well, Dr. Roy is wrong in quite a few points here.
 
ISI is not the main culprit behind brainwashing children, via regular school textbooks, to hate the non-Muslims. The garbage that they learn is not just hatred against a better neighboring country; it is also against the poor and powerless Hindu and other non-Muslim citizens of Pakistan.
 
Benazir Bhutto and her father might have been beacons of democracy by the Pakistani standard, but they were not truly democratic minded. Benazir actually wrote something like a will for her son and husband to inherit the leadership of PPP! Her father was the villain of ditching democracy when he was against transferring power to the people's representative of Pakistan in 1971. There is a video on U-Tube, where he was saying that he liked the students because they had supported him; the concept of the young generation being the future of the nation did not come out of his mouth. He was all for power for himself, just like Jinnah, the biggest villain of the Indian sub-continent, was.
 
As for Jamat/BNP, their stand against India is necessarily due to their hatred against non-Muslims. If they were not genuine hate-mongers, they could not have celebrated an election win by committing atrocities against non-Muslims (2001), nor could they express their anger against the death penalty for one of their leaders by committing mayhems against absolutely innocent, powerless and nonviolent non-Muslims (2013).
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
=========================================
 
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
 
Yes, you are right, Dr. Bain, about brainwashing, and it is the business of ISI. The ghost of India haunts most Pakistanis. This is the result of the successful brain washing. More fear means more dependence on the military establishment. Most Pakistanis feel much safer under military rule than under a democratic system. Many intellectual and affluent Pakistanis are frustrated with the slow progress of the democratic system there. Benazir Bhutto was a popular and influential leader in the international arena. She was a threat to the military establishment of Pakistan. You know the result. Recently, affluent Pakistanis are leaving Pakistan; many of them are settling in India.
We still have the remnant of the ghost of India in Bangladesh; BNP/Jamat politics is all about the fear of that ghost.
Jiten Roy
 
--- On Wed, 3/20/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 20, 2013, 10:54 PM

 
I meant to delete what I sent as blank to mukto-mona just a minute back. But let me make a quick comment anyway on Dr. Roy's observation.

I think the real problem for Pakistan now is its people, who have been getting brainwashed with stupidity and hatred for too long.
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
 
The source of most troubles in Pakistan is their military Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI). Pakistan has been under the control of ISI ever since it's birth. It is the king of the land under the Military rule, which becomes a paper tiger in a democratic system. Therefore, ISI will never like democracy in Pakistan, and there is no easy way out of this system also. Just hoping for democracy will not do it. Bangladesh has shown one way out; Baluchistan is going towards that direction.

Jiten Roy


--- On Wed, 3/20/13, Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
To: "Shah Deeldar" <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Cc: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>, "pfc-friends@googlegroups.com" <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com>, "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>, "india-unity@yahoogroups.com" <india-unity@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 20, 2013, 5:52 PM

 
If you think RAW and CIA are not, and were not, involved in Pakistan then there is not much more to be said.  You did talk about genocide in Baluchistan and that is a valid concern.  As is the killing of Shias and Christians.  That Middle Ages thinking has been imported from Saudi Arabia - another reason why Pakistan would do better without foreign interference.  And let's hope we can deal with the madrasahs in Bangladesh before we have a similar problem.  BTW I hope you will be just as vocal about the genocide of Urdu speaking in Bangladesh and ask for justice for them in the war crimes tribunals too.  You are right the Pakistani military is the elephant in the room - let's hope their next government does better.
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
Some people might still be living in the middle ages and that is the problem! I am sure you know exactly who live in what centuries in current Bangladesh. What I understood from your post is that it were CIA, RAW and other heinous spy agencies have had some thing to gain for not letting Pakistani democracy to flourish. That is pure rubbish. If Srilankans and Indians could stick to their democracies, why could not Pakistanis? Other needs to be blamed because Pakistanis loved their strong military men?

Pakistan broke apart because it did not have the democracy. The history will probably repeat itself again with Balochis taking their own path to independence. 

I am glad that PPP could fulfill their full term but I am not sure whether civilian government had the real power. Pakistani military is still the elephant in the room. That is why Indians and others would rather deal with Pakistani military than Pakistani civilian government

-SD    

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
Oh dear - I see that this is a wider group than pfc friends, but that's okay.  Are you sure you are not still in the 20th. century? :)  Actually I am Bangladeshi and have moved on from the past which is why I don't hold any grudges against Pakistan.  I assure you it is very liberating to free oneself of that anger, though it wasn't easy, and I had to do a lot of self-therapy to get there.   Since it is now 42 years since the military government of Pakistan committed genocide in our homeland, I am more interested in peace in South Asia where we don't go around destabilizing each other.  I am hoping for India-Pakistan-Bangladesh unity. Besides I don't like kicking anyone, even an old enemy when they are down, nor do I hold anything against the people of Pakistan who are just as decent as the people of India and Bangladesh.  Peace!
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 10:34 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
This is 21st century my friend! Time to grow up and walk! I hope you are not committing the same genocidal crimes in Balochistan as you have done in Bangladesh. Good luck with your democracy if you really got one? -SD

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com>
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
Cc: "india-unity@yahoogroups.com" <india-unity@yahoogroups.com>; "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 7:17 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
 
Pakistan has just marked an important milestone by completing for the first time in its history, the full term of a democratically elected civilian government.  Let's hope RAW and CIA give Pakistan and its people a chance to find their own way out of the many problems that have been created by foreign interference.  And may the upcoming elections result in better leadership for Pakistan - Inshallah!
On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:
http://pakpotpourri2.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/breaking-up-is-not-hard-to-do/

Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do

Why the U.S.-Pakistani Alliance Isn't Worth the Trouble
By Husain HaqqaniHH
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               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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[mukto-mona] Fwd: জয় বাংলা : 'আমার বন্ধু রাশেদ'-এর মুহুর্ত - YouTube video





---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: SyedAslam <syed.aslam3@gmail.com>
Date: 2013/3/22
Subject: জয় বাংলা : 'আমার বন্ধু রাশেদ'-এর মুহুর্ত - YouTube video
To: Khobor <khabor@yahoogroups.com>, notun Bangladesh <notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com>, chottala@yahoogroups.com


Watch the video:

'আমার বন্ধু রাশেদ'-এর মুহুর্ত:




 জয় বাংলা 
রাজাকার সময় থাকতে বাংলা ছাড়:







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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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[mukto-mona] এক নজরে জিয়াউর রহমান এর-কীর্তি সমুহঃ






Banga Bondhu: Keere tor khabor kee?

Zia; Sir Ame bhalo Asee. Aponar BAKSALE Joine korte chai.

Banga Bondhu: Thik asee. Torai to amar saler moto. Bhalo
bhabe kaz kormo kar.

Zia: jee sir.Finally he joined BAKSAL.  

Photo: এক নজরে জিয়াউর রহমান এর কু-কীর্তি সমুহঃ  >১৯৭৫-এর ২৪শে অক্টোবরে সেনাপ্রধানকে পদচ্যুত করে উপসেনাপ্রধান থেকে সেনাপ্রধান।  >বঙ্গবন্ধু হত্যার মাত্র ৪ মাস পর ৭৫'এর ৩১শে ডিসেম্বর, ৭২'এর ঘাতক দালাল আইন বাতিল করে ১১ হাজার যুদ্ধাপরাধীর মুক্তি,যাদের মধ্যে ৭৫২জন দন্ডপ্রাপ্ত।  >জেল ও বঙ্গবন্ধু হত্যার সব তদন্ত বন্ধ করে দেয়া  >১৯৭৬-এর ২৯শে নভেম্বরে প্রধান সামরিক শাসক সায়েমের বিরুদ্ধে ক্যু করে নিজে প্রধান সামরিক প্রশাসক  >১৯৭৭এর ২১ শে এপ্রিলে আবার সায়েমকে সম্পূর্ণ কিকআউট করে রাষ্ট্রপ্রধান  >১৯৭৭ এ অবৈধ ঘোষিত ধর্মভিত্তিকরাজনীতির অনুমতি।  >১৯৭৭-এর ২২ এপ্রিলে ১৯৭২ এর শাসনতন্ত্রের ৩৮ অনুচ্ছেদের মূলপরিবর্তন এনে সংবিধানে সন্ত্রাস  >১৯৭৭-এর ৭ই মে তে খুনিদের ক'জনকে পদোন্নতি এবং পুনর্বহাল  >১৯৭৭-এর 'হ্যাঁ-না' ভোট  >১৯৭৮-এর ৫ই এপ্রিলে নাগরিকত্ব আইন সংশোধন করে ১৯৭১-এর ঘাতক দালালদের নাগরিকত্ব দানের জন্য মন্ত্রনালয়কে আদেশ  >১৯৭৯-এর ৫ই এপ্রিল ৫ম সংশোধনীকে আইনে প্রণীত করে জেল ওবঙ্গবন্ধু হত্যার বিচারের দ্বাররুদ্ধ করতে বিষাক্ত ইনডেমনিটি অধ্যাদেশকে আইন  >নতুন নাগরিকত্ব আইনের আওতায় পাকিস্তানের পাসপোর্ট হাতে রাজাকার গোলাম কে দেশে প্রবেশের অনুমতি  >আব্বাসকে ৭৯তে জামাতের আমীর হতে দিয়ে ,দেশে মৌলবাদ এবং জামাতের স্বাধীনতা বিরোধী সকল কার্যকলাপকে সাংবিধানীক বৈধতা ,  >১৯৭২এর সংবিধানকে কেটে ছিরে নিজের ইচ্ছে মত সব কিছুকে জায়েজকরার নগ্ন প্রচেষ্টা।  এই সেই বিএনপি'র প্রতিষ্ঠাতা। প্রতিষ্ঠাতার অবস্থা যদি এমন হয়- সেখান থেকে ভালো কিই বা আশা করা যায়!!!    -তাইফুর হাসানএক নজরে জিয়াউর রহমান এর-কীর্তি সমুহঃ
>১৯৭৫-এর ২৪শে অক্টোবরে সেনাপ্রধানকে পদচ্যুত করে উপসেনাপ্রধান থেকে সেনাপ্রধান।
>বঙ্গবন্ধু হত্যার মাত্র ৪ মাস পর ৭৫'এর ৩১শে ডিসেম্বর, ৭২'এর ঘাতক দালাল আইন বাতিল করে ১১ হাজার যুদ্ধাপরাধীর মুক্তি,যাদের মধ্যে ৭৫২জন দন্ডপ্রাপ্ত।
>জেল ও বঙ্গবন্ধু হত্যার সব তদন্ত বন্ধ করে দেয়া
>১৯৭৬-এর ২৯শে নভেম্বরে প্রধান সামরিক শাসক সায়েমের বিরুদ্ধে ক্যু করে নিজে প্রধান সামরিক প্রশাসক
>১৯৭৭এর ২১ শে এপ্রিলে আবার সায়েমকে সম্পূর্ণ কিকআউট করে রাষ্ট্রপ্রধান
>১৯৭৭ এ অবৈধ ঘোষিত ধর্মভিত্তিকরাজনীতির অনুমতি।
>১৯৭৭-এর ২২ এপ্রিলে ১৯৭২ এর শাসনতন্ত্রের ৩৮ অনুচ্ছেদের মূলপরিবর্তন এনে সংবিধানে সন্ত্রাস
>১৯৭৭-এর ৭ই মে তে খুনিদের ক'জনকে পদোন্নতি এবং পুনর্বহাল
>১৯৭৭-এর 'হ্যাঁ-না' ভোট
>১৯৭৮-এর ৫ই এপ্রিলে নাগরিকত্ব আইন সংশোধন করে ১৯৭১-এর ঘাতক দালালদের নাগরিকত্ব দানের জন্য মন্ত্রনালয়কে আদেশ
>১৯৭৯-এর ৫ই এপ্রিল ৫ম সংশোধনীকে আইনে প্রণীত করে জেল ওবঙ্গবন্ধু হত্যার বিচারের দ্বাররুদ্ধ করতে বিষাক্ত ইনডেমনিটি অধ্যাদেশকে আইন
>নতুন নাগরিকত্ব আইনের আওতায় পাকিস্তানের পাসপোর্ট হাতে রাজাকার গোলাম কে দেশে প্রবেশের অনুমতি
>আব্বাসকে ৭৯তে জামাতের আমীর হতে দিয়ে ,দেশে মৌলবাদ এবং জামাতের স্বাধীনতা বিরোধী সকল কার্যকলাপকে সাংবিধানীক বৈধতা ,
>১৯৭২এর সংবিধানকে কেটে ছিরে নিজের ইচ্ছে মত সব কিছুকে জায়েজকরার নগ্ন প্রচেষ্টা।
এই সেই বিএনপি'র প্রতিষ্ঠাতা। প্রতিষ্ঠাতার অবস্থা যদি এমন হয়- সেখান থেকে ভালো কিই বা আশা করা যায়!!!


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               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do



Where did I go wrong in my assertion? I said that ISI has instilled a sense of insecurity in the psyche of the people of Pakistan through an organized propaganda campaign of the imminent threat from India. This is to create a perpetual support and dependency on Military establishment.

 

The threat from Indian aggression is the biggest reason why people of Pakistan feel secured with the Military establishment more than the democratic system. 

 

ISI campaign encompasses education, religious, social, and governmental establishments. To sustain the threat from India, there needs to be active military confrontations with India always; Kashmir is the sacrificial lamb ready for that. Also, Pakistan needs to align with the anti-Indian forces, which will keep the animosity between India and Pakistan alive. All these conditions favor military establishments, not democracy. Even politicians like Zulfikar Ali Bhutto used that fear-factor for political survival. There was no other choice left.

 

 

Jiten Roy



--- On Thu, 3/21/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, March 21, 2013, 9:14 PM

 

Well, Dr. Roy is wrong in quite a few points here.
 
ISI is not the main culprit behind brainwashing children, via regular school textbooks, to hate the non-Muslims. The garbage that they learn is not just hatred against a better neighboring country; it is also against the poor and powerless Hindu and other non-Muslim citizens of Pakistan.
 
Benazir Bhutto and her father might have been beacons of democracy by the Pakistani standard, but they were not truly democratic minded. Benazir actually wrote something like a will for her son and husband to inherit the leadership of PPP! Her father was the villain of ditching democracy when he was against transferring power to the people's representative of Pakistan in 1971. There is a video on U-Tube, where he was saying that he liked the students because they had supported him; the concept of the young generation being the future of the nation did not come out of his mouth. He was all for power for himself, just like Jinnah, the biggest villain of the Indian sub-continent, was.
 
As for Jamat/BNP, their stand against India is necessarily due to their hatred against non-Muslims. If they were not genuine hate-mongers, they could not have celebrated an election win by committing atrocities against non-Muslims (2001), nor could they express their anger against the death penalty for one of their leaders by committing mayhems against absolutely innocent, powerless and nonviolent non-Muslims (2013).
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
=========================================
 
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
 
Yes, you are right, Dr. Bain, about brainwashing, and it is the business of ISI. The ghost of India haunts most Pakistanis. This is the result of the successful brain washing. More fear means more dependence on the military establishment. Most Pakistanis feel much safer under military rule than under a democratic system. Many intellectual and affluent Pakistanis are frustrated with the slow progress of the democratic system there. Benazir Bhutto was a popular and influential leader in the international arena. She was a threat to the military establishment of Pakistan. You know the result. Recently, affluent Pakistanis are leaving Pakistan; many of them are settling in India.
We still have the remnant of the ghost of India in Bangladesh; BNP/Jamat politics is all about the fear of that ghost.
Jiten Roy
 
--- On Wed, 3/20/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 20, 2013, 10:54 PM

 
I meant to delete what I sent as blank to mukto-mona just a minute back. But let me make a quick comment anyway on Dr. Roy's observation.

I think the real problem for Pakistan now is its people, who have been getting brainwashed with stupidity and hatred for too long.
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
 
The source of most troubles in Pakistan is their military Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI). Pakistan has been under the control of ISI ever since it's birth. It is the king of the land under the Military rule, which becomes a paper tiger in a democratic system. Therefore, ISI will never like democracy in Pakistan, and there is no easy way out of this system also. Just hoping for democracy will not do it. Bangladesh has shown one way out; Baluchistan is going towards that direction.

Jiten Roy


--- On Wed, 3/20/13, Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
To: "Shah Deeldar" <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Cc: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>, "pfc-friends@googlegroups.com" <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com>, "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>, "india-unity@yahoogroups.com" <india-unity@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 20, 2013, 5:52 PM

 
If you think RAW and CIA are not, and were not, involved in Pakistan then there is not much more to be said.  You did talk about genocide in Baluchistan and that is a valid concern.  As is the killing of Shias and Christians.  That Middle Ages thinking has been imported from Saudi Arabia - another reason why Pakistan would do better without foreign interference.  And let's hope we can deal with the madrasahs in Bangladesh before we have a similar problem.  BTW I hope you will be just as vocal about the genocide of Urdu speaking in Bangladesh and ask for justice for them in the war crimes tribunals too.  You are right the Pakistani military is the elephant in the room - let's hope their next government does better.
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
Some people might still be living in the middle ages and that is the problem! I am sure you know exactly who live in what centuries in current Bangladesh. What I understood from your post is that it were CIA, RAW and other heinous spy agencies have had some thing to gain for not letting Pakistani democracy to flourish. That is pure rubbish. If Srilankans and Indians could stick to their democracies, why could not Pakistanis? Other needs to be blamed because Pakistanis loved their strong military men?

Pakistan broke apart because it did not have the democracy. The history will probably repeat itself again with Balochis taking their own path to independence. 

I am glad that PPP could fulfill their full term but I am not sure whether civilian government had the real power. Pakistani military is still the elephant in the room. That is why Indians and others would rather deal with Pakistani military than Pakistani civilian government

-SD    

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
Oh dear - I see that this is a wider group than pfc friends, but that's okay.  Are you sure you are not still in the 20th. century? :)  Actually I am Bangladeshi and have moved on from the past which is why I don't hold any grudges against Pakistan.  I assure you it is very liberating to free oneself of that anger, though it wasn't easy, and I had to do a lot of self-therapy to get there.   Since it is now 42 years since the military government of Pakistan committed genocide in our homeland, I am more interested in peace in South Asia where we don't go around destabilizing each other.  I am hoping for India-Pakistan-Bangladesh unity. Besides I don't like kicking anyone, even an old enemy when they are down, nor do I hold anything against the people of Pakistan who are just as decent as the people of India and Bangladesh.  Peace!
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 10:34 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
This is 21st century my friend! Time to grow up and walk! I hope you are not committing the same genocidal crimes in Balochistan as you have done in Bangladesh. Good luck with your democracy if you really got one? -SD

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com>
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
Cc: "india-unity@yahoogroups.com" <india-unity@yahoogroups.com>; "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 7:17 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
 
Pakistan has just marked an important milestone by completing for the first time in its history, the full term of a democratically elected civilian government.  Let's hope RAW and CIA give Pakistan and its people a chance to find their own way out of the many problems that have been created by foreign interference.  And may the upcoming elections result in better leadership for Pakistan - Inshallah!
On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:
http://pakpotpourri2.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/breaking-up-is-not-hard-to-do/

Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do

Why the U.S.-Pakistani Alliance Isn't Worth the Trouble
By Husain HaqqaniHH
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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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