Banner Advertiser

Saturday, November 2, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism



Again, you (SD) have assumed something about me arbitrarily, I never said, ' Marxism is science'. And never like religious bigots, did I look up at Marx as 'prophet'. I am not a Marxist but consider him the most acceptable among all philosophers and economists.I accept his motto, taken from Descartes, Doubt everything, and that prompts me to study and learn from Marx with a critical mindset. Permit me to state, bias against Marx or Marxism is not consistent with scientific temper, that too without adequate knowledge of Marx.

From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 00:27:30
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism
 

Needless to say you won't get any better reception than what you have already got. You started this discussion, but you have not stated anything concrete about Marxism except to say that true Marxism has not been applied or studied. Now, I can't say Marxism is a social ideology because Marx hated that terminology. Your Hindustan time's snippet does not add anything more than what you stated already. It sounds like you are defending your prophet's honor and words because you are totally dedicated to his messages. Marxism is not Science, brother! I do work with science and face reviewers' critics everyday.
Thank you. I would rather rest my case here.
-SD



 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss


On Saturday, November 2, 2013 9:40 AM, Sankar Kumar Ray <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
 
Please don't put your words into my pen. I never said Marxism is a 'social ideology', Marx used to hate the word ideology In fact, in German Ideology, Marx characterised as 'camera obscura'. Ideology suits capitalists and pseudo-Marxists or every official communist party of the 20th Century. In fact, I would not spare Lenin too here. I wrote a piece in the Hindustan Times, taking up this point.http://www.hindustantimes.com/comment/columnsothers/totally-off-the-marx/article1-839109.aspx

You put a question. 'Are you going to bring sociologists and doctors to make your point? '. This query is bereft of scientific temper. If one has to be objective, one will not ask/say who states or writes this/that. But if one does the opposite, one becomes subjective. It seems you don't have the patience even to read the seminal paper by Dr Clarke.

Frankly speaking, I erred in initiating the debate. It seems the papers/references, I mentioned are not even read by most of those who participated.

I seek apology for initiating the debate.

Wish you all the very best

From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, 02 Nov 2013 04:18:30
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism
 
Are you going to bring sociologists and doctors to make your point? My dear friend, this is an interactive forum, where you make your points with your own take about Marxism or any subject that you want to discuss. Your point has been so far is that Marxism is truly a great social ideology, but yet to be practiced/applied properly in any society? I say, there is a problem between the theory and its application. I can go as far as to say that even Marx, himself would not be able to put his theory in practice. Not then and not now!

Not to disappoint you entirely, I have no problem to say that I have profound respect for the man as a great economist and philosopher of our time. He made his mark and we owe him for his great contribution. Thank you.
-SD 


On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Sankar Kumar Ray <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
I would request you to read a paper by a prominent Marxist sociologist-
Was Lenin a Marxist? The Populist Roots of Marxism-Leninism
Simon Clarke, Department of Sociology, University of Warwick (http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~syrbe/pubs/lenin.pdf)
.
I think the debate may get out of a stagnant state as most of you refuse to critically look at Lenin and Plekhanov.
Will come back to Paris Commune and Spanish revolution later.

From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, 01 Nov 2013 06:34:53
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism
 
"This is a grave misjudgement. From Plekhanov to Lenin-Trotsky, from Stalin to Mao, and from Gramsci-Lucas to Althusser one finds distortion of Marx. Marxism is yet to be applied , except partially in Paris Commune and Spanish Revolution (1930s)."

How do you conclude that Marxism was partially introduced in Paris Commune and Spanish Revolution? Why partially? And, what else was missing from that system? I find it very odd that you claim yourself as being not a perfect Marxist and yet, you are ready to judge other systems. Marxism was put in practice by some revolutionary leaders but it just did not work. The experiment went wrong and you conveniently call them Leninism or Maoism? What makes you so sure that Marxism is so precise that it can be applied in its pure form and it should work? I am not sure I understand your lines of arguments. As I said before, you sound like some of our Islamist, who still think that there is a purer form of Islam that solve all our problems.

It is laughable that you still dreaming of a day when pure Marxism will be applied somewhere on this earth and people will start singing Kumbaya my Lord? That sounds like a wet dream to me. 
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss


On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 6:42 PM, Sankar Kumar Ray <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
 
I thought I would refrain myself from the debate about whether Marxism is valid or not.Sadly enough, most of the participants to whom I am too very grateful assume that Marxism has failed. This is a grave misjudgement. From Plekhanov to Lenin-Trotsky, from Stalin to Mao, and from Gramsci-Lucas to Althusser one finds distortion of Marx. Marxism is yet to be applied , except partially in Paris Commune and Spanish Revolution (1930s).

I am giving a link to another piece of mine in Daily Times (must be read critically)

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2013\09\23\story_23-9-2013_pg3_5.

But I want to draw attention of Mukto-mona members to MEGA, the historic project of publishing Marx and Engels, insulated from 'partyocracy. I wrote an introductory on MEGA in kafila.org, but I would suggest all to read
Publishing  Marx and  Engels  after  1989: The fate of the MEGA

Lastly, my knowledge of Marx and Marxism (Leninism etc) is journalistic, not at all profound.
Sankar Ray

Get your own FREE website, FREE domain & FREE mobile app with Company email.  
Know More >



Get your own FREE website, FREE domain & FREE mobile app with Company email.  
Know More >
--
--
Disclaimer: All content provided on this discussion forum is for informational purposes only. The owner of this forum makes no representations as to the accuracy or completeness of any information on this site or found by following any link on this site. The owner will not be liable for any errors or omissions in this information nor for the availability of this information. The owner will not be liable for any losses, injuries, or damages from the display or use of this information.
This policy is subject to change at anytime.
 
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bangladesh Progressives" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bangladesh-progressives+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



--
"Religion is not going to come up with any new arguments." CH

Get your own FREE website, FREE domain & FREE mobile app with Company email.  
Know More >



Get your own FREE website, FREE domain & FREE mobile app with Company email.  
Know More >


__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190



Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] ‘নারীদের তেঁতুল বলিনি, ফুলের সঙ্গে তুলনা করেছিলাম’ ......



Is he saying any thing different now? He has compared a woman to tamarind, flower, and queen. Like tamarind the sight of a woman waters a man's tongue. Likewise the sight of a flower, the sight of a woman arouses sex in a man. Such a narrow view of the world is expected only from a cleric like Allama Shafi. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 2, 2013, at 10:06 AM, SyedAslam <Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Watch Related Video At:   

Tetul Baba Misogynist remarks | Allama Ahmed Shafi { Leader, Hefazote Islami }:



'নারীদের তেঁতুল বলিনি, ফুলের সঙ্গে তুলনা করেছিলাম'

চট্টগ্রাম প্রতিনিধি | আপডেট: ১৮:৫৩, নভেম্বর ০২, ২০১৩

আমির শাহ আহমদ শফীহেফাজতে ইসলামের আমির শাহ আহমদ শফী বলেছেন, নারীদের তেঁতুল বলা নিয়ে তাঁর বিরুদ্ধে যা প্রচার করা হচ্ছে, তা ঠিক নয়। তাঁর অভিযোগ, অনেক আগে একটি মাহফিলে দেওয়া বক্তব্যের আগের ও পরের অংশ কাটছাঁট করে, খণ্ডিত অংশ প্রচার করে সরকারের মন্ত্রীরা তাঁর নামে বদনাম রটাচ্ছেন। আজ বিকেলে চট্টগ্রামের হাটহাজারি পার্বত্য উচ্চবিদ্যালয় মাঠে এক সমাবেশে প্রধান বক্তা হিসেবে তিনি এই অভিযোগ করেন।

হেফাজতের আমির দাবি করেন, 'আমি নারীদের তেঁতুল বলিনি, তেঁতুলের সঙ্গে তুলনা করেছি মাত্র।ওই সমাবেশে নারীদের"রানি" ও"ফুল"-এর সঙ্গে তুলনা করেছিলাম।ফুল দেখলে সবাই তার ঘ্রাণ নিতে চায়, তাই নারীদের উলঙ্গ হয়ে চলাফেরা না করতে বলেছিলাম।' তিনি বলেন, তাঁর ওই বক্তব্য প্রচার করা হয়নি।

শফী বলেন, 'নারীদের চাকরি বাকরি করতে নিষেধ করা হয়নি। আমি মহিলাদের আদেশ দিয়েছি আল্লাহর নামে পর্দা মাধ্যমে চলাফেরা করতে।' সমাবেশে হেফাজতের আমির সংখ্যালঘুদের উদ্দেশে বলেন, ইসলাম ধর্মে সংখ্যালঘুদের সম্পূর্ণ নিরাপত্তা নিশ্চিতের কথা বলা হয়েছে। তাই হেফাজতে ইসলাম কখনোই সংখ্যালঘুদের প্রতি কোনো নির্যাতন করেনি। হাটহাজারি মাদ্রাসার কাছেই দেড় শ বছরের পুরোনো মন্দির রয়েছে। সেখানেও কখনো কেউ হাত দেয়নি বলে উল্লেখ করেন শফী। 

এদিকে কওমি মাদ্রাসা প্রসঙ্গে শফী বলেন, দুই বছর আগে এ নিয়ে প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনার সঙ্গে তাঁর কথা হয়েছে। সে সময় প্রধানমন্ত্রীকে কয়েকজন আলেমকে সরকারে রেখে দেশ পরিচালনার পরামর্শ দিয়েছিলেন বলেও দাবি করেন। এই সমাবেশে হেফাজতে ইসলামের মহাসচিব জুনায়েদ বাবুনগরী বলেন, ১৫ নভেম্বর হেফাজতের বিক্ষোভ সমাবেশ আছে। ওই কর্মসূচিতে কোনো রকম বাধা দেওয়া হলে 'লাখ লাখ' লাশ পড়বে।


Source:


   


http://www.prothom-alo.com/bangladesh/article/63676/%E2%80%98%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%B0%E0%A7%80%E0%A6%A6%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%B0_%E0%A6%A4%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%81%E0%A6%A4%E0%A7%81%E0%A6%B2_%E0%A6%AC%E0%A6%B2%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%BF_%E0%A6%AB%E0%A7%81%E0%A6%B2%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%B0_%E0%A6%B8%E0%A6%99%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%97%E0%A7%87_%E0%A6%A4%E0%A7%81%E0%A6%B2%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%BE_%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%B0%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%9B%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%B2%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%AE%E2%80%99
Related:
Video URL: 

  1. 'তেঁতুল' থেকে সরে 'রাণী'তে এলেন শফী - iPortBD.com - আইপোর্ট

    9 mins ago - তাঁর দাবি, 'আমি তাদের (নারীদের) তেঁতুল বলিনি, তাদের তেঁতুলের সঙ্গে তুলনা করেছি মাত্র। 
    এরপরও সরকারের মন্ত্রী-এমপিরা আমার বিরুদ্ধে অনেক কথা ...

    1. Sorejomin Barta - 'নারীদের তেঁতুল বলিনি, ফুলের সঙ্গে তুলনা করেছিলাম'

      56 mins ago - হেফাজতে ইসলামের আমির শাহ আহমদ শফী বলেছেন, নারীদের তেঁতুল বলা নিয়ে তাঁর বিরুদ্ধে যা প্রচার করা হচ্ছে, তা ঠিক নয়। তাঁর অভিযোগ, অনেক আগে একটি ...

    2. PRIYO.com - হেফাজতের আমির দাবি করেন, 'আমি নারীদের তেঁতুল ...

      হেফাজতের আমির দাবি করেন, 'আমি নারীদের তেঁতুল বলিনি, তেঁতুলের সঙ্গে তুলনা করেছি মাত্র। ওই সমাবেশে নারীদের "রানি" ও "ফুল"-এর সঙ্গে তুলনা করেছিলাম। ফুল...

    3. 'নারীদের তেঁতুল নয়, ফুল বলেছি' | পরিবর্তন

      36 mins ago - শফী বলেন,"আমি নারীদের তেঁতুল বলিনি, তেঁতুলের সঙ্গে তুলনা করেছি মাত্র। ওই সমাবেশে নারীদের 'রানী' ও 'ফুল' এর সঙ্গেও তুলনা করেছিলাম। ফুল দেখলে সবাই ...

    4. 'তেঁতুল নয় তেঁতুলের মতো' | চট্টগ্রাম মেইল | banglamail24.com news fast

      2 hours ago - তিনি দাবি করে বলেছেন, 'আমি তাদের (নারীদের) তেঁতুল বলিনি, তাদের তেঁতুলের সঙ্গে তুলনা করেছি মাত্র।' তিনি বলেছেন, 'মহিলাদের তুলনা করা যায় একমাত্র ...


11 Jul 2013   12:55:19 PM   Thursday BdST
    

নারীদের নিয়ে কুরুচিপূর্ণ বক্তব্য শফীর (ভিডিও)

নিউজ ডেস্ক
বাংলানিউজটোয়েন্টিফোর.কম

নারীদের নিয়ে কুরুচিপূর্ণ বক্তব্য শফীর (ভিডিও)
আল্লামা শাহ আহমদ শফী

ঢাকা: হেফাজতে ইসলামের আমির আল্লামা শাহ আহমদ শফী নারীদের স্বাধীনতা, শিক্ষা ও চাকরি সম্পর্কে কুরুচিপূর্ণ, সভ্যতা ও উন্নয়ন বিরোধী মন্তব্য করেছেন। ইন্টারনেটে প্রকাশিত একটি ওয়াজ মাহফিলে ভিডিওচিত্রে তার এ ধরনের বক্তব্য পাওয়া গেছে। বর্তমান বিশ্ব যেখানে নারীদের স্বাধীনতা, স্বনির্ভরতার ওপর জোর দিচ্ছে, তিনি আছেন উল্টো পথে।
ওয়াজে নারীদের তিনি তুলনা করেছেন তেঁতুলের সঙ্গে। তেঁতুল দেখলে মানুষের যেমন জিভে জল আসে তেমনি নারীদের দেখলে 'দিলের মইধ্যে লালা বাইর হয়' বলে মন্তব্য করেছেন তিনি। আল্লামা শফির ওই বক্তব্য নিয়ে সোশ্যাল মিডিয়া ফেসবুকসহ নানান ব্লগে এখন সমালোচনার ঝড় বইছে। বিভিন্ন শ্রেণী-পেশার মানুষ ওই বক্তব্যের নিন্দা জানাচ্ছেন। এ বিষয়ে এরই মধ্যে নারী নেত্রীরাও প্রতিবাদ জানিয়েছেন।
  শফীর মতে, নারীদের কাজ হলো আসবাবপত্রের যত্ন নেওয়া, সন্তান লালন-পালন করা, ঘরের মধ্যে থাকা। ...... 

Watch Video at:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=R-cd6P-u4WY

Read details at : http://www.banglanews24.com/detailsnews.php?nssl=dcc6eb2145ef8a8f576cb97b62e79359&nttl=11072013209787

  1. শফীর বক্তব্যের প্রতিবাদে মানববন্ধন, গ্রেফতার দাবি

    20 hours ago - কম ডেস্ক. ঢাকা: নারীদের স্বাধীনতা, শিক্ষা ও চাকরি সম্পর্কে হেফাজতে ইসলামের আমীর আল্লামা শাহ আহমদ শফীর দেওয়া কুরুচিপূর্ণ বক্তব্যের প্রতিবাদে রাজধানীতে মানববন্ধন হয়েছে।... মানববন্ধনে অংশ নিয়ে নাট্যকার রোকেয়া প্রাচী বলেন, আল্লামা শফীর মতো একজন ধর্মপ্রাণ মানুষনারীদের নিয়ে এ ধরনের বক্তব্য দিতে পারেন না।

  2. নারীদের নিয়ে কুরুচিপূর্ণ বক্তব্য শফীর - Khabor

    9 hours ago - হেফাজতে ইসলামের আমির আল্লামা শাহ আহমদ শফী নারীদের স্বাধীনতা,

  3. নারীদের নিয়ে শফীর কুরুচিপূর্ণ বক্তব্য প্রত্যারের দাবি | রাজধানী ...

    18 hours ago - নারীদের নিয়ে শফীর কুরুচিপূর্ণ বক্তব্য প্রত্যারের দাবি. বৃহস্পতিবার জাতীয় প্রেসক্লাবের সামনে এক মানববন্ধনে এ দাবি জানানো হয়। সমকাল প্রতিবেদক. হেফাজতে ইসলামীর আমির আল্লামা শাহ আহমদ শফীর দেওয়া কুরুচিপূর্ণ বক্তব্য প্রত্যাহারের দাবি জানিয়েছে 'জনতার শক্তি' নামে একটি সংগঠন ও নারীদের নিয়ে প্রকাশিত ...

  4. নারীদের নিয়ে আহমদ শফীর কুরুচিপূর্ণ কুরুচিপূর্ণ বক্তব্য প্রত্যাহারের ...

    4 hours ago - প্রতিমুহূর্ত প্রতিবেদন :: নারীদের নিয়ে হেফাজতে ইসলামের আমির আল্লামা শাহ আহমদ শফীর কুরুচিপূর্ণ মন্তব্যের প্রতিবাদে বৃহস্পতিবার দুপুরে প্রেসক্লাবের সামনে মানববন্ধন ও প্রতিবাদ সমাবেশ হয়েছে। মানববন্ধনে বক্তারা ধর্মের নামে শাহ আহমদ শফীর দেওয়া নারীর প্রতি মধ্যযুগীয় অবমাননা ও অসম্মানজনক বক্তব্যের তীব্র নিন্দা ...

  1. শিক্ষা, চাকরি ও নারীদের নিয়ে কুরুচিপূর্ণ বক্তব্য শফীর – JNnews24

    18 hours ago - নিজেস্ব প্রতিবেদক, ঢাকা : হেফাজতে ইসলামের আমির আল্লামা শাহ আহমদ শফীনারীদের স্বাধীনতা, শিক্ষা ও চাকরি সম্পর্কে কুরুচিপূর্ণ, সভ্যতা ও উন্নয়ন বিরোধী মন্তব্য করেছেন। ইন্টারনেটে প্রকাশিত একটি ওয়াজ মাহফিলে ভিডিওচিত্রে তার এ ধরনের বক্তব্য পাওয়া গেছে। বর্তমান বিশ্ব যেখানে নারীদের স্বাধীনতা, স্বনির্ভরতার ওপর ...

  2. নারীদের নিয়ে কুরুচিপূর্ণ বক্তব্য শফীর - প্রথম বার্তা

    prothombarta.com/2013/07/11/নারীদের-নিয়ে-কুরুচিপূর্ণ/
    22 hours ago - প্রথম বার্তা ডেস্ক : হেফাজতে ইসলামের আমির আল্লামা শাহ আহমদ.

  3. নারীদের নিয়ে শফীর কুরুচিপূর্ণ বক্তব্য - Amader Barisal

    22 hours ago - ডেস্ক রিপোর্ট :: হেফাজতে ইসলামের আমির আল্লামা শাহ আহমদ শফী নারীদেরস্বাধীনতা, শিক্ষা ও চাকরি সম্পর্কে কুরুচিপূর্ণ, সভ্যতা ও উন্নয়ন বিরোধী মন্তব্য করেছেন। ই.

  4. আহমদ শফীর কুরুচিপূর্ণ বক্তব্যের প্রতিবাদে রাজধানীতে মানববন্ধন ...

    19 hours ago - নারীদের স্বাধীনতা, শিক্ষা ও চাকরি সম্পর্কে হেফাজতে ইসলামের আমীর আল্লামা শাহ আহমদ শফীর দেওয়া কুরুচিপূর্ণ বক্তব্যের প্রতিবাদে রাজধানীতে মানববন্ধন হয়েছে। ... মানববন্ধনে অংশ নিয়ে নাট্যকার রোকেয়া প্রাচী বলেন, "আল্লামা শফীর মতো একজন ধর্মপ্রাণ মানুষ নারীদের নিয়েএ ধরনের বক্তব্য দিতে পারেন না। এ বক্তব্যের ...





__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190



Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism



Mr. Q. Rahman has drawn an illogical analogy by bringing the issue of rejection of Urdu by the Bengalis. His position with respect to Bengali nationalism is geared towards Pakistan time mentality. In one post he said that Rabindranath's Kabuliwala was a scheme to portray a Muslim as a murderer. 

As far as I know Steve Jobs converted to Buddhism and for that reason he visited India. His conversion to Buddhism may be due to immense hatred he had for the man who had fathered and then abandoned him. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 2, 2013, at 4:13 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

 

"Your forefathers (During 1951) refused to assimilate to the language of the federal government (Urdu) and give up their language (Bangla), so why the double standard?" This is a stupid Paki argument.

"Did you know that Mr. Job comes from Arabic heritage?"- His Arabian Dad disowned him after birth, so his mother got married elsewhere and Jobs was the title of the man she married.  Typical Muslim(Arabian) attitude--"Screw the woman and forget the offspring".  Steve did not allow his biological father to contact him after he became famous.

(Low IQ is a requirement of the tea-party club!!) -An intelligent observation indeed.




On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 10:46 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 



Many recent immigrants prefer to use their own language, and, therefore, mix with their own community only; many of them do not even bother to learn English. They are the new backward class.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your forefathers (During 1951) refused to assimilate to the language of the federal government (Urdu) and give up their language (Bangla), so why the double standard?



Now, about 100 million people receive food stamp; people even hide their actual income to seek food stamp. It's not a taboo any longer. This explains the lower standard of living.

>>>>>>>>>>>> So "Multi-cultarism" caused this?


Tea-Party mentality means smaller government mentality; I support that.

>>>>>>>>>> Nope. It means whole lot more than that. An intolerant bunch of people who wanted to hijack the US government to get their ways. No different than a thug. Unfortunately they are not smart enough to understand (Low IQ is a requirement of the tea-party club!!) that, even such stunt can bring down US government credit rating and ultimately cost billions to US tax payers. If they pull the same stunt again ( Shut down of the US government or defaulting on credit) in next three months, it will do more harm than what Bin Laden (Or his buddies) could do in 100 years!

These tea baggers happens to be very supportive of all US lead wars. When it comes to war they forget to speak about saving tax payer money. Only speak out when it comes to social services or education (Some moronic leaders of tea party want to shut down US department of education).

So maybe you need to learn more about this movement before you pledge to this group of morons.


What that has to do with identity crisis.

>>>>>>>> Like Rush Limbaugh fan club most members are white. They cannot make it while only (Like the old days) because it is illegal.



Steve Jobs, the founder of the Apple Empire? He was dirt poor in his early life;

>>>>>>> You are right. Did you know that Mr. Job comes from Arabic heritage?


Bill Gates did not start from a rich background either.

>>>>>>> Wrong. Bill's dad was rich and highly educated.


These people show how – anybody can think rich and be rich; it has nothing to do with identity.

>>>>>>>> Actually Barrack Obama captures the "American way" more than most well known Americans. Here is a black man (Actually he is bi-racial) who barely knew his biological father eventually became the first non-white American president. This can happen ONLY in America (With a middle name "Hossain").

Americans made huge progress (Still have racial issues but made progress) in racial equity. It also has two Indian American governors (Both in deep south).


I am glad you are proud of being American but it seems you tend to speak (And join groups) about topics without knowing much about them. One does not have to be American like you to explain America. Most Americans are unaware of the rest of their vast country. A man from Idaho does not know much about culture of New York. A foreign student who lived in New York city probably know more about NYC than most Americans. Then comes the sub-culture of each region and social norms. Which varies from place to place.

The NRA supporting Americans have very different world view (Similar to tea party folks) than rest of civilized Americans.

Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2013 5:45 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism

 

"that society is now the envy of the rest of the world." - it was probably so about five decades ago.  Presently, in the quality of public life index, the Americans are not in the top ten list. – K. Das

Do you know how American society got deteriorated so such? Recent immigrants have rejected the American melting-pot idealism; they want to keep their own culture and identity. Many recent immigrants prefer to use their own language, and, therefore, mix with their own community only; many of them do not even bother to learn English. They are the new backward class.
 
Multiculturalism has changed the social psyche. Millions of people now believe they deserve government benefits; this was not the case a few decades ago. People used to feel ashamed to accept any government help. Very few would accept food stamps. Now, about 100 million people receive food stamp; people even hide their actual income to seek food stamp. It's not a taboo any longer. This explains the lower standard of living.
 
"And lastly, if you have no problem with tea party mentality, you are suffering from severe identity crisis.  You have come to that land hundreds of years after that incident. " – K. Das
 
I do not know what identity crisis has to do with Tea-Party mentality. Tea-Party mentality means smaller government mentality; I support that. That's all. What that has to do with identity crisis.
 
What is one's identity, anyway? Are you trying to say – someone coming from a poor country should not have American dreams? Have you heard the story of Steve Jobs, the founder of the Apple Empire? He was dirt poor in his early life; Bill Gates did not start from a rich background either. These people show how – anybody can think rich and be rich; it has nothing to do with identity. 
 
You must be suffering from the depressive Marxist mentality?
 
 
Jiten Roy


On Thursday, October 31, 2013 9:07 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"If you think this change will install full-fledged Marxist Socialism in the Industrial Societies, you could be wrong." - I have never thought so, or preached it.  Marxist Socialism never was implemented in any country.  Some Orwellian pigs came to power preaching it and could not sustain in it lacking popular participation.

"that society is now the envy of the rest of the world." - it was probably so about five decades ago.  Presently, in the quality of public life index, the Americans are not in the top ten list.

And lastly, if you have no problem with tea party mentality, you are suffering from severe identity crisis.  You have come to that land hundreds of years after that incident.  Though that incident occurred to demand reservation in the British Parliament, the ultra right of the Republicans are antidemocratic in every bit of their action and, lacking foresight, actually digging their own grave.


On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Dr. Das,

Of course I can see some socialist principles are creeping into the Industrial Societies. As I told before - society needs to balance these two extreme systems. If you think this change will install full-fledged Marxist Socialism in the Industrial Societies, you could be wrong. Don't forget so quickly, Capitalism is also creeping into the Socialist Russian and Chinese societies.
 
Yes, thousands of lives were lost in the American Civil War to build a greater American Society, and that society is now the envy of the rest of the world. So, the lives lost in American Civil war is not in vein, unlike the lives lost for installing the Socialism around the world, which ultimately crumbled on it's own weight.

The Tea-Party mentality is needed to maintain the check & balance between the Capitalist and Marxist systems. So, I have no problem with it.


Thanks.


__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190



Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism



"As the proverb says, "New converts sing hymns louder", you are a perfect example of a new convert."

His other choice would have been to stay back in Bangladesh and live like a protected species with no guarantee of free speech or security.  In the US, he has probably more rights than he would ever had in any other places. I think he is a good convert with a great cause. 
-SD
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss


On Saturday, November 2, 2013 7:40 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"Trilok"- Ain't the word "Tilok"?
"I know you hate America, but you should know - it was not America's fault that you had to leave for a third world country."  - Such comment is manifestation of losing an argument.  As for myself, I left on my own choice.

"This is how we become a part of the   melting-pot. This is valid only for the first generation of immigrants; second generation will learn on their own." - Every country on earth is a melting pot  U.S.A. is a pressure cooker.  Every year, about a quarter of a million white Americans leave for elsewhere.  Even after staying for generations, African Americans feel alienated.  As the proverb says, "New converts sing hymns louder", you are a perfect example of a new convert.


On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 12:29 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
My observation is from my own life experiences. I do not usually form opinion based on other peoples' opinions. I am not here to convince anyone, either. My observation of American Society for 30+ years leads me to conclude that one of the reasons, among many others, for the growth of economic underclass in America is multiculturalism.

In 1989, there was a vacancy for a junior level technician in our section at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. An Indian guy applied. When he saw me, he came up to me and asked me to pursue his case. I talk to him for a while, and looked at his CV. I was convinced that he will be a very good technician.  I know that - section head likes me, so I thought I will plead for him. I went to my boss and said - this guy has excellent experiences in the field. Can we hire him? He said - he will look at his CV, and let me know.

After a month, my boss called me. He said - "Jiten, I agree he has good experiences; but, I am not sure he will be a good match with other."  When the final decision was made - he was not selected. At that point something hit me. I realized that – no matter how good you are - first you have to get hired, and, to get hired, you need to be likeable to others in the section. That's a very important factor to be successful in whatever you do.

There was another Indian post-doc scientist, used to work in the Rockefeller University Lab. He used to live in the same building with us. Every morning I used to see him going to work. He would put on "Trilok" and used to recite God's name holding a small bag containing a bead-chain (Jopomala). I thought - he must have applied from India, and was hired based on his CV. Then I heard - he left for India at the end of his contract.
 
Being immigrant creates multitudes of obstacles in our ways. We often do not know how to relate and talk to other American colleagues, so we all can feel at home. This is important for being successful in here.
The bottom line is we need to be acceptable to others wherever we work. This means, we have to give up certain characteristics and adopt some new characteristics. This is how we become a part of the   melting-pot. This is valid only for the first generation of immigrants; second generation will learn on their own.

Jiten Roy



On Saturday, November 2, 2013 12:19 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
I am living in the American multi-culturalism for 30 years, you are not.

>>>>>>>> Didn't you say that multi-culturism causing "Americans" to accept food stamp (..)? So what gives (If you do not understand the question,kindly ask your kids and they will translate it for you) ?

  So, don't you dare to teach me about American multi-culturalism

>>>>>>> OK. Please teach us about it. When did it start?

Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2013 9:37 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism

 


I know you hate America, but you should know - it was not America's fault that you had to leave for a third world country. I am living in the American multi-culturalism for 30 years, you are not.  So, don't you dare to teach me about American multi-culturalism; I can learn from my life experiences, which you can't. Your arrogance knows no bound. I cannot get down to your level.



On Friday, November 1, 2013 9:52 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Having the dream of growing reach is not essentially American.  It is universal.  Those who initiated Boston Tea Party wanted their fare share in the British Parliament with a larger Government.  The Republican "Tea Party" men today are trying to fool the American people by pretending to be the defenders of independence.  You may be convinced about their ideology and join the losers.  That is your choice.

The cause of deterioration of American Society is wrongly diagnosed by you.  It is their dependence on the Military-Industrial complex or for that matter dependence on Big corporate culture.  May be you or your children would witness Marx's prediction come true in the great land called United States of America.

How dare you preach against multiculturalism?  How did U. S. A. come into present shape.  Read history and find out.  Return the Spanish territory to its rightful owners.  English was made the Official Language after it won in the Senate by one vote against the German.  What language do your family members speak?  Bangla or Banglish?


On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 4:44 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

"that society is now the envy of the rest of the world." - it was probably so about five decades ago.  Presently, in the quality of public life index, the Americans are not in the top ten list. – K. Das

Do you know how American society got deteriorated so such? Recent immigrants have rejected the American melting-pot idealism; they want to keep their own culture and identity. Many recent immigrants prefer to use their own language, and, therefore, mix with their own community only; many of them do not even bother to learn English. They are the new backward class.
 
Multiculturalism has changed the social psyche. Millions of people now believe they deserve government benefits; this was not the case a few decades ago. People used to feel ashamed to accept any government help. Very few would accept food stamps. Now, about 100 million people receive food stamp; people even hide their actual income to seek food stamp. It's not a taboo any longer. This explains the lower standard of living.
 
"And lastly, if you have no problem with tea party mentality, you are suffering from severe identity crisis.  You have come to that land hundreds of years after that incident. " – K. Das
 
I do not know what identity crisis has to do with Tea-Party mentality. Tea-Party mentality means smaller government mentality; I support that. That's all. What that has to do with identity crisis.
 
What is one's identity, anyway? Are you trying to say – someone coming from a poor country should not have American dreams? Have you heard the story of Steve Jobs, the founder of the Apple Empire? He was dirt poor in his early life; Bill Gates did not start from a rich background either. These people show how – anybody can think rich and be rich; it has nothing to do with identity. 
 
You must be suffering from the depressive Marxist mentality?
 
 
Jiten Roy


On Thursday, October 31, 2013 9:07 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"If you think this change will install full-fledged Marxist Socialism in the Industrial Societies, you could be wrong." - I have never thought so, or preached it.  Marxist Socialism never was implemented in any country.  Some Orwellian pigs came to power preaching it and could not sustain in it lacking popular participation.

"that society is now the envy of the rest of the world." - it was probably so about five decades ago.  Presently, in the quality of public life index, the Americans are not in the top ten list.

And lastly, if you have no problem with tea party mentality, you are suffering from severe identity crisis.  You have come to that land hundreds of years after that incident.  Though that incident occurred to demand reservation in the British Parliament, the ultra right of the Republicans are antidemocratic in every bit of their action and, lacking foresight, actually digging their own grave.


On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Dr. Das,

Of course I can see some socialist principles are creeping into the Industrial Societies. As I told before - society needs to balance these two extreme systems. If you think this change will install full-fledged Marxist Socialism in the Industrial Societies, you could be wrong. Don't forget so quickly, Capitalism is also creeping into the Socialist Russian and Chinese societies.
 
Yes, thousands of lives were lost in the American Civil War to build a greater American Society, and that society is now the envy of the rest of the world. So, the lives lost in American Civil war is not in vein, unlike the lives lost for installing the Socialism around the world, which ultimately crumbled on it's own weight.

The Tea-Party mentality is needed to maintain the check & balance between the Capitalist and Marxist systems. So, I have no problem with it.


Thanks.


Jiten Roy




On Thursday, October 31, 2013 6:49 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"Mr. Ray, Marx wrote - socialism will not come without revolution to the extent of destruction and dissolution of the society."- Citation please.

World has seen no more violent a change than the American Civil War.  What is your opinion about it Dr. Roy?  Besides, have you heard about Fabian Socialism?  Don't you think, it has already creeped in most of the Industrial Societies?  There is no turning back.  With your tea party mindset of Republican Party variety, your observation about socialism is totally wrong.


On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 4:55 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Mr. Ray said:
Marx wrote in a polemic in 1844, "Without revolution socialism cannot be viable. It needs this political act to the extent that it needs destruction and dissolution."
 
World has seen and known revolutions in Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, etc. causing destruction and dissolution of existing societies in the name of installing socialism around the world. In the process – at least hundred million lives were lost. After all these destruction and death, the socialist empire crumbled, without counter-revolution by the capitalist system; no life was lost; no destruction and dissolution of anything needed either; socialism crumbled on its own weight. That's how it's supposed to be. Yet, Mr. Ray still finds prospect of real Marxist socialism in this day and age.
 
Mr. Ray, Marx wrote - socialism will not come without revolution to the extent of destruction and dissolution of the society. Are you suggesting people will go for another revolution to install real Marxist society, much like the previous ones, and millions of people will sacrifice lives again? If not, what are we going to do with Marxism today?
 
Jiten Roy


On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 6:31 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"The point is to remember Marx's motto, taken from Descartes: De omnibus dubitandum (doubt everything)." - Descartes might have got the idea from Buddhist dictum which says, "Doubt everything even if I told you."


On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Sankar Kumar Ray <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
 
I thought I would refrain myself from the debate about whether Marxism is valid or not.Sadly enough, most of the participants to whom I am too very grateful assume that Marxism has failed. This is a grave misjudgement. From Plekhanov to Lenin-Trotsky, from Stalin to Mao, and from Gramsci-Lucas to Althusser one finds distortion of Marx. Marxism is yet to be applied , except partially in Paris Commune and Spanish Revolution (1930s).

I am giving a link to another piece of mine in Daily Times (must be read critically)

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2013\09\23\story_23-9-2013_pg3_5.

But I want to draw attention of Mukto-mona members to MEGA, the historic project of publishing Marx and Engels, insulated from 'partyocracy. I wrote an introductory on MEGA in kafila.org, but I would suggest all to read
Publishing  Marx and  Engels  after  1989: The fate of the MEGA

Lastly, my knowledge of Marx and Marxism (Leninism etc) is journalistic, not at all profound.
Sankar Ray

Get your own FREE website, FREE domain & FREE mobile app with Company email.  
Know More >



















__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190



Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Subscribe to: Posts (Atom)