[mukto-mona] [Mukto-Mona Writers' Corner] 'enemies'

Mukto-Mona Writers' Corner has posted a new item, 'enemies'


UK Shariah


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[mukto-mona] [Mukto-Mona Writers' Corner] 'THE ENEMIES AND FRIENDS WITHIN '

Mukto-Mona Writers' Corner has posted a new item, 'THE ENEMIES AND FRIENDS
WITHIN '


The two photos below are from UK and recent ones. What UK Muslims of this kind
want to express? They are doing harms to fellow peace loving Muslims by adopting
a stance that they will overcome all adversities, obstacles and denials in a
Muslim minority country like UK and establish Islamic hegemony there.


[...]


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-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
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[mukto-mona] [মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ] 'আমার রবীন্দ্রনাথ : মৃণালিনী দেবীর পত্রকথা'

মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ has posted a new item,
'আমার রবীন্দ্রনাথ : মৃণালিনী
দেবীর পত্রকথা'










অনন্ত মহালোক আশ্বিন ১৪২০


আমার রবীন্দ্রনাথ


আমার জীবনে তুমি ধরেছ জীবন


ওঁ
সংসার, কলকাতার ভিড়,
আত্মীয়বর্গের কলহ কোলাহল সব
ছেড়ে দূরের নির্জনতায় তোমার
মনে মুক্তি ও আনন্দের স্বাদ,
তোমার মনে হয়েছে ডাঙ্গায় তোলা
মাছ যেন জলে পড়ে প্রাণ ফিরে
পেল। 'কলকাতার ভিড়ে জীবনটা
নিষ্ফল হয়ে থাকে।'


আমি তখন জোড়াসাঁকোয়, তুমি
শিলাইদহ, সময়টা জুন ১৯০১ সন।
নির্ভার মুক্ত মনে তুমি বসে [...]


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-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
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Re: [mukto-mona] A Copy of the Koran for Subimal Chakrabarty

Lets take the face value of what Dr. Chakrabarty says. If he claims to be an atheist, I got no problem with it. He could be a milder version of it? I am not sure whether you can be a super rigid atheist all the time. That would be totally crazy.  I do not have any problem if an atheist defends another person's good-natured religious traditions against some criminal thugs (religious or non religious). Would not that be a benevolent deed? Or, the atheist in question should deliver a sermon against the believer's religion and his/her Gods(s)?

We need be careful here. Maybe our words are not exactly reflecting what are in our minds? We know that our Taliban brothers are looking for the purest of pure Muslims. Lets not fall into that trap. Thank you. 

-SD 

 

On Sunday, November 30, 2014 7:02 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Of course we all live among religious people. People go to religious festivals for different reasons; some people go there to worship, others go there for socialization, cultural entertainment, etc. I meet many Muslims there as well; they are there to enjoy cultural functions. You go to puja to show your respect to your family's desire; that's not the question here. The question is - whether you will have to defend their religion as well to show that respect. I say, you don't need to defend a religion just to show your respect for people who follow religion; that's hypocrisy. You are not being truthful to yourself. I am sorry - your mind is full of contradictions and inconsistencies.

Think about what your good friend, Dr. Bain, is telling you. You either support or reject a religion; there is nothing like partially support a religion. It's crazy to think that way.

Jiten Roy

 

---

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] A Copy of the Koran for Subimal Chakrabarty

 

Dr. Roy

I am a confirmed atheist no doubt and I have been atheist for the last forty-seven years. There has been no deviation. But I am respectful to people who are religious. All my relatives including my wife and most of my friends are believers. I live among the believers. I go to pujas. My wife performs rituals and arranges pujas at home. I happily live with among the believers. I am sure we all do. Dr. Bain (a confirmed atheist) who is personally known to me sends money to his village in Bangladesh for pujas. I get emails from Priyobangla from which I know that one of the most active members of the forum organizes pujas. There is nothing wrong in it. Religious festivals are part of our culture. Participation by an atheist in it does not make him a believer. 

Moreover, an atheist does not have to be a good man. Although he does not have a religion, he can pretty well be a communalist in his personal life and political life as well. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 29, 2014, at 9:36 AM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

"To me, Najrul. Rabindranath, Gandhi, and many other intellectuals/philosophers/politicians were wrong when they talked about selected good parts of Islam, especially when they failed to ask people to discard the parts that can be used to make the world hell."

That's exactly my view also, thanks.

We all have brains to judge good and bad. Unfortunately, some people look at others' opinions for their own opinions. This is what I see in Mr. Chakraborty. It seems like - he is unable to express his own mind without quoting others. These individuals could be pointing to some good things about Islam for political correctness or some other reasons, we don't know.   

We cannot just use some good things about something to defend it; you need to take into account good and bad together to judge anything. A religiously motivated person would only talk about good things to defend his/her religion. When an atheist do that, to praise a religion, I don't see truthfulness in it; rather, I see cowardice and appeasement in this behavior.

This is not the first time I saw this tendency of him; this has been his traits for years. He says he is an atheist, but never defends his view, instead he defends a religion. I have gone through this many times with him in the past.

The truth is - religion is not peaceful; they are all violent. So, when someone tries to prove - his/her religion is peaceful, either he does not know his religion or this is  the propaganda to camouflage the violent nature of his religion.      

Jiten Roy

 

---

From: "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 7:59 AM
Subject: [mukto-mona] A Copy of the Koran for Subimal Chakrabarty

 

I am posting this in honor of Professor Subimal Chakrabarty for the following post in which he stated, "my knowledge about the Koran is extremely limited.":

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mukto-mona/conversations/messages/68324

 

In this information age, learning about almost anything is possible and free. The following translation of the Koran was certified to be authentic by a religious Muslim friend of mine:

 

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/

 

I hope Professor Chakrabarty would read it, and randomly talk about what are in the Koran. Selecting verses that sound great to praise the religion would be dishonest and a disservice to humanity, especially when too many followers of Islam, including the Islamic State barbarians, try to follow everything. To too many followers, everything in the Koran and Hadit are to be followed, irrespective of where that would take the world/humanity. (Of course, they follow without thinking; they do not have the capacity to think logically.)

 

To me, Najrul. Rabindranath, Gandhi, and many other intellectuals/philosophers/politicians were wrong when they talked about selected good parts of Islam, especially when they failed to ask people to discard the parts that can be used to make the world hell.

 

I am not interested in opening up anyone's holy book to criticize it; I want the followers themselves to try to open up their minds, to do the criticizing themselves, and to be able discard what should be discarded.

 

Sukhamaya Bain

 

 

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Posted by: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>

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Re: [mukto-mona] RE: ISIS is hell-bent to establish real Islamic Caliphate in the middle-East just like Prophet Muhammad did in the 7th century Medina.

During the Abbasid regime, Islam produced Mutazilla community which challenged tenets of Islam. Even today, extremists in Islam are minorities. Vast majority of moderates would sweep them aside in time. I have talked to a few of them even in madrasah. All they need is to learn more about the past.

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 30, 2014, at 6:11 AM, "Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

People have right to ventilate their minds in this forum. Whether their opinions are right or wrong, that is another matter. Don't you do the same? How are you different from other posters? Maybe, you have become totally unsensitized against your own body odor? How should Muslim issues be addressed? With what kind of political correctness? Spell it out Sir?

Muslim moderates are simply jokers. Every time I hear their names, I feel like throwing up. They have failed to change Muslim minds for last fourteen hundred years. Lets not blame others for this cruel misery.

-SD

 

On Saturday, November 29, 2014 5:42 PM, "ANISUR RAHMAN anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

The advantage of having this debate in public is that everybody - Hindus, Muslims, Christians, atheists, agnostics, pagans and so forth - can see what is going on in the minds of the key players and where they are coming from. 

Dr. Jiten Roy may spurt out his bigoted feelings on the pretext of having clear thinking and straight talking; whereas Dr. Kamal Das may feel that he knows everything there is to know about what is going on in the minds of one and half billion Muslims and gives a sanctimonious direction on the future course of action the majority of Muslims or at least moderate Muslims should take. 

But the central theme of this discourse is this - Confucius more than two and half millenia ago said: "He who knows not, knows not that he knows not, is imbecile, shun him". I will say no more about these two self-serving critiques analysing and reanalysing Muslim bahaviour perpetually.

- AR  

---

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 29 November 2014, 6:22
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: ISIS is hell-bent to establish real Islamic Caliphate in the middle-East just like Prophet Muhammad did in the 7th century Medina.

 

Thanks. I can see your points. I hope Kamal Das also could spend some time to organize 
his thoughts first and then present it respectfully. All he does is make sweeping comments and boast his incoherent knowledge. 
Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 28, 2014, at 6:09 PM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

"Why should they not be given the freedom to rise above the literary meanings of a holy book and still be religious    by practicing a religion that has been hijacked by the fanatic militants? "-  S. Chakrabarty

People have given that relative freedom since the inception of Islam but it is like one step forward followed by two steps backward. It is the religious Mullahs who call the shorts. These people are so 'afraid' that they think Islam needs to be protected by any means. Anybody converts to an atheist or something else is a dead meat. So, freedom is not an issue.

ISIL has rather become very popular amongst many enlightened European Muslims. And that is not a fluke. The gullible Muslim moderates would pretend to fight the evils but they will surrender the bigger causes of Islam. That is why nothing has happened since PM death. That is why evil forces like ISIL, Boko-harams an d Talibans would be coming in many different flavors with more notoriety. And, moderates will chant the same mantra as these people being not true Muslims. Meanwhile, minorities will be converted or thrown out from many parts of the Muslim dominated countries. And, nobody can be blamed for those notoriety. A moderate would be sorry but he would not mind to live amongst those imbeciles as evidenced by so many cruel incidents and events. There goes his/her freedom and stance against his/her evil brethren. People like Malala can't go back to her own country but she is a great Muslim? I find this very ironic and maybe little self-serving (call it my sarcastic conspiracy theory) agenda from a different angle.

Yes, nobody can do anything about this deadly menace. I bet Nazrul knew that cruel fact when he was young and cognitively alert. Thank you. I stop here.

I bet, we are heading towards the elephant in the room.

-SD

 

 

On Friday, November 28, 2014 5:57 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Nazrul was a Muslim by birth and name. He never converted to any other religion although it has been said that for a certain time period he became a Kali sadhak. Through one of his poems he expressed his desire to be buried by the side of a mosque. He was above religion. He was more a Bengali than a Muslim. He did not suffer from religious meanness. That's why he could so easily write beautiful kirtans in addition to naad, hamd, and gajal. He wrote much more Hindu songs than Islamic songs because of the higher demand for the former. 

My point was not to prove that Nazrul was a devout Muslim. He was a rebel against the use of religion as a tool of exploitation. He was aware that common people were religious and he must not do any thing that would make him isolated from people as o ne of his goals was to liberate the oppressed. That's what I wanted to say. Some one made a rude comment about Kerry. My question was if he would make the similar comment about Nazrul as he tried to glorify the prophet of Islam in his song. 

I will never ask Kamal Das this question as he is not worth debating with. He got mad when he heard that Rabindranath called Muhammad a great sage. He stopped so low that he attacked Rabindranath by saying that his writings were not free from spelling mistakes. He loves to attack some one out of context. As far as I remember he  was also mad when he came to know that Vivekananda praised the concept of equality in Islam. He accuses but cannot say on what point. 

That ISIS is following the true Koranic Islam i s now a favorite theory in certain quarters which include Islamophobiac communalists. The theory may be well founded or not---I don't know as my knowledge about the Koran is extremely limited. Also I don't care. My concern is with the Muslims in general who also treat them as true Muslims but do not endorse the activities of ISIS. Will it not be rude to tell them that they are half Muslims and in order to become true Koranic Muslims they have to follow ISIS word for word? Will this not be divisive and make fight against ISIS weak? Why should they not be given the freedom to rise above the literary meanings of a holy book and still be religious    by practicing a religion that has been hijacked by the fanatic militants? 

I have asked you few questions in a separate mail. I would be looking forward to hearing from you soon. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 27, 2014, at 8:00 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Does this song

Re: [mukto-mona] A Copy of the Koran for Subimal Chakrabarty

Defending a person who exterminated Jews like insects, our Mawlana claims to be an atheist? How strange! 

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 1, 2014, at 6:01 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Of course we all live among religious people. People go to religious festivals for different reasons; some people go there to worship, others go there for socialization, cultural entertainment, etc. I meet many Muslims there as well; they are there to enjoy cultural functions. You go to puja to show your respect to your family's desire; that's not the question here. The question is - whether you will have to defend their religion as well to show that respect. I say, you don't need to defend a religion just to show your respect for people who follow religion; that's hypocrisy. You are not being truthful to yourself. I am sorry - your mind is full of contradictions and inconsistencies.

Think about what your good friend, Dr. Bain, is telling you. You either support or reject a religion; there is nothing like partially support a religion. It's crazy to think that way.

Jiten Roy

 

---

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] A Copy of the Koran for Subimal Chakrabarty

 

Dr. Roy

I am a confirmed atheist no doubt and I have been atheist for the last forty-seven years. There has been no deviation. But I am respectful to people who are religious. All my relatives including my wife and most of my friends are believers. I live among the believers. I go to pujas. My wife performs rituals and arranges pujas at home. I happily live with among the believers. I am sure we all do. Dr. Bain (a confirmed atheist) who is personally known to me sends money to his village in Bangladesh for pujas. I get emails from Priyobangla from which I know that one of the most active members of the forum organizes pujas. There is nothing wrong in it. Religious festivals are part of our culture. Participation by an atheist in it does not make him a believer. 

Moreover, an atheist does not have to be a good man. Although he does not have a religion, he can pretty well be a communalist in his personal life and political life as well. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 29, 2014, at 9:36 AM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

"To me, Najrul. Rabindranath, Gandhi, and many other intellectuals/philosophers/politicians were wrong when they talked about selected good parts of Islam, especially when they failed to ask people to discard the parts that can be used to make the world hell."

That's exactly my view also, thanks.

We all have brains to judge good and bad. Unfortunately, some people look at others' opinions for their own opinions. This is what I see in Mr. Chakraborty. It seems like - he is unable to express his own mind without quoting others. These individuals could be pointing to some good things about Islam for political correctness or some other reasons, we don't know.   

We cannot just use some good things about something to defend it; you need to take into account good and bad together to judge anything. A religiously motivated person would only talk about good things to defend his/her religion. When an atheist do that, to praise a religion, I don't see truthfulness in it; rather, I see cowardice and appeasement in this behavior.

This is not the first time I saw this tendency of him; this has been his traits for years. He says he is an atheist, but never defends his view, instead he defends a religion. I have gone through this many times with him in the past.

The truth is - religion is not peaceful; they are all violent. So, when someone tries to prove - his/her religion is peaceful, either he does not know his religion or this is  the propaganda to camouflage the violent nature of his religion.      

Jiten Roy

 

---

From: "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 7:59 AM
Subject: [mukto-mona] A Copy of the Koran for Subimal Chakrabarty

 

I am posting this in honor of Professor Subimal Chakrabarty for the following post in which he stated, "my knowledge about the Koran is extremely limited.":

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mukto-mona/conversations/messages/68324

 

In this information age, learning about almost anything is possible and free. The following translation of the Koran was certified to be authentic by a religious Muslim friend of mine:

 

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/

 

I hope Professor Chakrabarty would read it, and randomly talk about what are in the Koran. Selecting verses that sound great to praise the religion would be dishonest and a disservice to humanity, especially when too many followers of Islam, including the Islamic State barbarians, try to follow everything. To too many followers, everything in the Koran and Hadit are to be followed, irrespective of where that would take the world/humanity. (Of course, they follow without thinking; they do not have the capacity to think logically.)

 

To me, Najrul. Rabindranath, Gandhi, and many other intellectuals/philosophers/politicians were wrong when they talked about selected good parts of Islam, especially when they failed to ask people to discard the parts that can be used to make the world hell.

 

I am not interested in opening up anyone's holy book to criticize it; I want the followers themselves to try to open up their minds, to do the criticizing themselves, and to be able discard what should be discarded.

 

Sukhamaya Bain