"The religion start with faith and science with doubt". Some priests are scientists as well. Some sort of faith in them stirred their curious mind to explore the world. The Mandelian theory has been established by observing the great nature in the  carefully maintained church garden with passion.
 
Galileo said, The world is a book, to read it we need to learn the alphabets, language of it. It is a obscure book for commons and wonderful reading experience of brightest minds. The minds those who want to read, they  finds the way to learn it. That's how human being evolved from cave to the space.
 
The faith and imagination are two powerful elements of human existence. Often had conflicts which eventually lead the human being to todays shape.

 

---

From: shahdeeldar@yahoo.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 15:42:21 -0800
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] [মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ] 'শ্রীমদভগবাদগীতা, ভগবানের মুখনিঃসৃত বর্ণবৈষম্যের বিষবাষ্প'

 

I would agree with Mr. Chakrabarty. If reading some literature pleases people, I say more power to those people as long they do not impose those thoughts on others. For scientific literature, we should have a different standard because most of the findings have been scientifically proven by rigorous experiments.
-SD

 

"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss

On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 6:21 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Ignoring or trashing (sounds rude) may not be a good thing to do. There will always be people who instead of ignoring it will try to thrive on it thereby polluting the society. The middle path can be to reinterpret it or analyze it with a modern and rational mind so that the readers can make up their own minds. In an orthodox society the best thing the leaders can do is to promote the good things and be quiet about the bad things. 

Although I have been a confirmed atheist for the last 45 years or so, I see all religious books (neither revealed nor holy to me) as important documents that reflect the socio-economic conditions of the periods concerned. I am in favor of judging in terms of time and space in which it was created. Many of the teachings in their are still valid today if not universal. I believe in the transcendental meanings. That is how the renaissance looked at the old and ancient literature and art. Ravindranath and Madhusudan have used them this way. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Whatever the Gita is, any rubbish in any religious book should be ignored (politically correct) or trashed (politically incorrect, can even get the honest and sensible critic killed).

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 4, 2014 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] [মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ] 'শ্রীমদভগবাদগীতা, ভগবানের মুখনিঃসৃত বর্ণবৈষম্যের বিষবাষ্প'

 

Gita is said to have been composed during the Abasid regime in Baghdad.  Khrishna is not a Vedic God. His "Sarbadarmam parityajya.." is essentially Islamic in nature.  Those who consider Gita as divine song should study Hinduism beyond elementary level, as their comprehension is not better than that.

2014-02-04 WordPress <মুক্তমন@vps5925.inmotionhosting.com>:

 

মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ has posted a new item,
'শ্রীমদভগবাদগীতা, ভগবানের
মুখনিঃসৃত বর্ণবৈষম্যের
বিষবাষ্প'

বর্ণপ্রথা বা বর্ণবৈষম্য
হিন্দুধর্মের সবচেয়ে
বেদনাদায়ক অধ্যায়।হাজার
বছরেরও বেশী সময় ধরে এই
বিষবাষ্পে দগ্ধ হচ্ছে হিন্দু
সমাজ।বর্ণশ্রেষ্ট হিন্দুদের
মধ্যে এই প্রথা এখনও
প্রবল।তথাকথিত উচ্চবর্ণের
হিন্দুরা এখনও নিচুবর্ণের
হিন্দুদের ঘৃণার চোখে
দেখে।মাত্র কিছুকাল আগেও উচ্চ
শ্রেণীর হিন্দুবাড়ীতে
নিন্মবর্ণের হিন্দুদের(যাদের
মূলত দিনভিত্তিক কাজ বা জন
খাটার জন্য নিয়োগ করা হতো)
খাওয়া দাওয়ার জন্য আলাদা থালা
বাটি রাখা [...]

You may view the latest post at
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You received this e-mail because you asked to be notified when new updates are
posted.

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Actually, armed forces cannot protect any country, people do. You can see that everywhere in the world. Mighty American and Russian soldiers could not keep Afghanistan under their control because Afghan people rejected them, not because Afghani-Armed forces forced them out. American forces occupied many countries around the world, but could not keep any under their control for too long, because citizens rejected them.

Let me give another example. Let's say - Indian Armed forces start all-out attack on Bangladesh. Do you think Bangladesh Armed forces can prevent them? Not at all, but people of Bangladesh can drive them out for sure just by rejecting them. For that - people do not need any special weapon.

There are no better soldiers than properly trained citizens.

Jiten Roy

On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 8:00 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Actually, I did not start with any pre-conceived notion. My judgments were based upon reading the article. Again, gun culture is not the principal reason for the low crime rate in Switzerland.

 

BTW: It is actually funny that at least some people in Switzerland and elsewhere in the world still think that they can defend their country with handguns and rifles. Don't they need to put themselves in the shoes of the angry fighters of Afghanistan and Pakistan who are so helpless against the US drones?

=============================

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 4, 2014 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] A Gun Culture That Works

 

We cannot start reading an article from a pre-conceived notion that - it is written by a gun-lobbyist and funded by NRA. If we do that - none of these arguments will register into the brain.

The fact of the matter is the result of the gun culture in Switzerland. This country does not have armed forces; they do not need them, because - every citizen is a soldier. Of course, education is a major contributing factor, which enables citizens to make better judgments in life. Proper education enables them to distinguish between right and wrong. Bangladesh has nothing of this sort; gun culture is not for jungle-boys.

Jiten Roy

On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 2:05 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Obviously, the author is a gun-lobbyist, quite possibly paid by organizations like the NRA. However, a simple reading between the lines of even this article and similar articles on the internet would make it clear that "social conditions are fundamental in deterring crime." It is not really the gun culture that keeps crime rate low in Switzerland. It is their culture of education, civility, honesty and responsibility that keeps crime rate low in the country. One might say "affluence too." I do not want to do that in the Bangladeshi context, because millions of head wagging children in madrassas are contrary to growth in brain activity (education) and affluence.

 

SuBain

 

============================================ 

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2014 7:16 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] A Gun Culture That Works

 

The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works

The country had one mass shooting in 2001, but a resulting anti-gun referendum failed to pass. The Swiss will not give up the gun. Can their system work in the U.S.?

By Helena Bachmann / Geneva Dec. 20, 2012358 Comments

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Michael Buholzer / Reuters

Swiss marksmen shoot at targets over 300 m away during an annual shooting-skills exercise near Bern

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Even as the gun-control debate rises again in the U.S. in the aftermath of the horrific school shooting in Newtown, Conn., the gun-loving Swiss are not about to lay down their arms. Guns are ubiquitous in this neutral nation, with sharpshooting considered a fun and wholesome recreational activity for people of all ages.

Even though Switzerland has not been involved in an armed conflict since a standoff between Catholics and Protestants in 1847, the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public. Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder.

(MORE: The World's Best — and Worst — Places to Live)

"We will never change our attitude about the responsible use of weapons by law-abiding citizens," says Hermann Suter, vice president of Pro-Tell, the country's gun lobby, named after legendary apple shooter William Tell, who used a crossbow to target enemies long before firearms were invented.

Switzerland trails behind only the U.S, Yemen and Serbia in the number of guns per capita; between 2.3 million and 4.5 million military and private firearms are estimated to be in circulation in a country of only 8 million people. Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010. By comparison, the U.S rate in the same year was about 5 firearm killings per 100,000 people, according to a 2011 U.N. report.

Unlike some other heavily armed nations, Switzerland's gun ownership is deeply rooted in a sense of patriotic duty and national identity. Weapons are kept at home because of the long-held belief that enemies could invade tiny Switzerland quickly, so every soldier had to be able to fight his way to his regiment's assembly point. (Switzerland was at risk of being invaded by Germany during World War II but was spared, historians say, because every Swiss man was armed and trained to shoot.)

(MORE: Switzerland: Are Its Days as a Tax Haven for Foreigners Numbered?)

But the "gun in every closet" tradition was challenged in 2001, after a disgruntled citizen opened fire with his army rifle inside a regional parliament, killing 14 and injuring 14 others — the only mass shooting in Switzerland's recent history. The subsequent opposition to widespread gun ownership spearheaded a push for stricter arms legislation. The government and pro-gun groups argued, however, that the country's existing laws regulating the sale, ownership and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed weapons, are stringent enough. The law allows citizens or legal residents over the age of 18, who have obtained a permit from the government and who have no criminal record or history of mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, with the exception of automatic firearms and selective fire weapons, which are banned. Semiautomatics, which have caused havoc in the U.S., can be legally purchased.

The authorities made one concession, though: since 2008, all military — but not private — ammunition must be stored in central arsenals rather than in soldiers' homes. The debate culminated in a nationwide referendum last year, when 56% of voters rejected the proposal initiated by anti-gun organizations to ban army rifles from homes altogether.

Although guns are responsible for between 200 and 300 suicides each year in Switzerland, Pro-Tell's Suter says these statistics have to be put in a wider perspective. He points out that the bullets used in suicides are only a tiny fraction of the 75 million rounds of ammunition that are fired each year in Switzerland during military and civilian target practice.

(MORE: When the Swiss Aren't Neutral: Chocolates and the CIA)

One of the reasons the crime rate in Switzerland is low despite the prevalence of weapons — and also why the Swiss mentality can't be transposed to the current American reality — is the culture of responsibility and safety that is anchored in society and passed from generation to generation. Kids as young as 12 belong to gun groups in their local communities, where they learn sharpshooting. The Swiss Shooting Sports Association runs about 3,000 clubs and has 150,000 members, including a youth section. Many members keep their guns and ammunition at home, while others choose to leave them at the club. And yet, despite such easy access to pistols and rifles, "no members have ever used their guns for criminal purposes," says Max Flueckiger, the association's spokesperson.

"Social conditions are fundamental in deterring crime," says Peter Squires, professor of criminology and public policy at the University of Brighton in Great Britain, who has studied gun violence in different countries and concluded that a "culture of support" rather than focus on individualism, can deter mass killings.

"If people have a responsible, disciplined and organized introduction into an activity like shooting, there will be less risk of gun violence," he tells TIME.

That sense of social and civic responsibility is one of the reasons the Swiss have never allowed their guns to come under fire.

Read more: How Switzerland Developed a Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/#ixzz2sDEqtnRN

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Re: [mukto-mona] [মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ] 'শ্রীমদভগবাদগীতা, ভগবানের মুখনিঃসৃত বর্ণবৈষম্যের বিষবাষ্প'

Probably quite a few hundred million people in the world would oppose to reinterpreting their religion. "Modern" and "rational" are quite opposite to "blind faith". Being "quiet about bad things" is essentially the same as "ignoring" them. As for judging the religious books in the context of the time of their creation, I have always been a proponent of keeping the religious books in the libraries for people to do research on their past; which is essentially the same as judging them by their time, as opposed to allowing them to be anything like a code of life today or tomorrow.

 

Obviously, I would learn anything good that can be learnt from any religious book. However, a really honest reading of some parts of most of the god-fearing religions should make sensible good people feel disgusted. Those parts of the religions could not be just ignored, especially when they are used by ignorant and hateful minds to exploit, persecute, brutalize and kill regular good people.

 

SuBain

 

===================================

On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 6:21 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Ignoring or trashing (sounds rude) may not be a good thing to do. There will always be people who instead of ignoring it will try to thrive on it thereby polluting the society. The middle path can be to reinterpret it or analyze it with a modern and rational mind so that the readers can make up their own minds. In an orthodox society the best thing the leaders can do is to promote the good things and be quiet about the bad things. 

Although I have been a confirmed atheist for the last 45 years or so, I see all religious books (neither revealed nor holy to me) as important documents that reflect the socio-economic conditions of the periods concerned. I am in favor of judging in terms of time and space in which it was created. Many of the teachings in their are still valid today if not universal. I believe in the transcendental meanings. That is how the renaissance looked at the old and ancient literature and art. Ravindranath and Madhusudan have used them this way. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Whatever the Gita is, any rubbish in any religious book should be ignored (politically correct) or trashed (politically incorrect, can even get the honest and sensible critic killed).

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 4, 2014 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] [মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ] 'শ্রীমদভগবাদগীতা, ভগবানের মুখনিঃসৃত বর্ণবৈষম্যের বিষবাষ্প'

 

Gita is said to have been composed during the Abasid regime in Baghdad.  Khrishna is not a Vedic God. His "Sarbadarmam parityajya.." is essentially Islamic in nature.  Those who consider Gita as divine song should study Hinduism beyond elementary level, as their comprehension is not better than that.

2014-02-04 WordPress <mailto:%E0%A6%AE%E0%A7%81%E0%A6%95%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%A4%E0%A6%AE%E0%A6%A8@vps5925.inmotionhosting.com>:

 

মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ has posted a new item,'শ্রীমদভগবাদগীতা, ভগবানেরমুখনিঃসৃত বর্ণবৈষম্যেরবিষবাষ্প'বর্ণপ্রথা বা বর্ণবৈষম্যহিন্দুধর্মের সবচেয়েবেদনাদায়ক অধ্যায়।হাজারবছরেরও বেশী সময় ধরে এইবিষবাষ্পে দগ্ধ হচ্ছে হিন্দুসমাজ।বর্ণশ্রেষ্ট হিন্দুদেরমধ্যে এই প্রথা এখনওপ্রবল।তথাকথিত উচ্চবর্ণেরহিন্দুরা এখনও নিচুবর্ণেরহিন্দুদের ঘৃণার চোখেদেখে।মাত্র কিছুকাল আগেও উচ্চশ্রেণীর হিন্দুবাড়ীতেনিন্মবর্ণের হিন্দুদের(যাদেরমূলত দিনভিত্তিক কাজ বা জনখাটার জন্য নিয়োগ করা হতো)খাওয়া দাওয়ার জন্য আলাদা থালাবাটি রাখা [...]You may view the latest post athttp://mukto-mona.com/bangla_blog/?p=39541You received this e-mail because you asked to be notified when new updates areposted.Best regards,মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ ।

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190

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Re: [mukto-mona] [মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ] 'শ্রীমদভগবাদগীতা, ভগবানের মুখনিঃসৃত বর্ণবৈষম্যের বিষবাষ্প'

I would agree with Mr. Chakrabarty. If reading some literature pleases people, I say more power to those people as long they do not impose those thoughts on others. For scientific literature, we should have a different standard because most of the findings have been scientifically proven by rigorous experiments.
-SD

 

"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss

On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 6:21 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Ignoring or trashing (sounds rude) may not be a good thing to do. There will always be people who instead of ignoring it will try to thrive on it thereby polluting the society. The middle path can be to reinterpret it or analyze it with a modern and rational mind so that the readers can make up their own minds. In an orthodox society the best thing the leaders can do is to promote the good things and be quiet about the bad things. 

Although I have been a confirmed atheist for the last 45 years or so, I see all religious books (neither revealed nor holy to me) as important documents that reflect the socio-economic conditions of the periods concerned. I am in favor of judging in terms of time and space in which it was created. Many of the teachings in their are still valid today if not universal. I believe in the transcendental meanings. That is how the renaissance looked at the old and ancient literature and art. Ravindranath and Madhusudan have used them this way. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Whatever the Gita is, any rubbish in any religious book should be ignored (politically correct) or trashed (politically incorrect, can even get the honest and sensible critic killed).

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 4, 2014 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] [মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ] 'শ্রীমদভগবাদগীতা, ভগবানের মুখনিঃসৃত বর্ণবৈষম্যের বিষবাষ্প'

 

Gita is said to have been composed during the Abasid regime in Baghdad.  Khrishna is not a Vedic God. His "Sarbadarmam parityajya.." is essentially Islamic in nature.  Those who consider Gita as divine song should study Hinduism beyond elementary level, as their comprehension is not better than that.

2014-02-04 WordPress <মুক্তমন@vps5925.inmotionhosting.com>:

 

মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ has posted a new item,
'শ্রীমদভগবাদগীতা, ভগবানের
মুখনিঃসৃত বর্ণবৈষম্যের
বিষবাষ্প'

বর্ণপ্রথা বা বর্ণবৈষম্য
হিন্দুধর্মের সবচেয়ে
বেদনাদায়ক অধ্যায়।হাজার
বছরেরও বেশী সময় ধরে এই
বিষবাষ্পে দগ্ধ হচ্ছে হিন্দু
সমাজ।বর্ণশ্রেষ্ট হিন্দুদের
মধ্যে এই প্রথা এখনও
প্রবল।তথাকথিত উচ্চবর্ণের
হিন্দুরা এখনও নিচুবর্ণের
হিন্দুদের ঘৃণার চোখে
দেখে।মাত্র কিছুকাল আগেও উচ্চ
শ্রেণীর হিন্দুবাড়ীতে
নিন্মবর্ণের হিন্দুদের(যাদের
মূলত দিনভিত্তিক কাজ বা জন
খাটার জন্য নিয়োগ করা হতো)
খাওয়া দাওয়ার জন্য আলাদা থালা
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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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