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Thursday, September 18, 2014

[mukto-mona] DDD 113. ইউরোপীয় পার্লামেন্টে প্রস্ [1 Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from mk haque mk_haque@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] included below]

DHAKA DAILY DISH113th Issue, 18th Sept '14

 
Dear All,
Today, concentrated on only one issue.  European Parliament
discussed on Bangladesh and took some resolutions.  It came
prominently in newspapers in Dhaka.  It is taken from three
most prominent ones.  One anti govt, one pro govt and one
known as neutral – all gave the news importance.  Thanks.
Haque, Lowell, MA.
 
 

বাংলাদেশের মানবাধিকার নিয়ে ইউরোপীয় পার্লামেন্টে প্রস্তাব পাস :

গুম খুন বন্ধ  সম্প্রচার নীতিমালা বাতিলের দাবি

্যাবের হাতে ৮০০ জন নিহত হয়েছে:্যাবকে দায়মুক্তি না দিতে প্রস্তাব

ডেস্ক রিপোর্ট Amar Desh 19th Sept 14
বাংলাদেশে মানবাধিকার পরিস্থিতিতে গভীর উদ্বেগ প্রকাশ করেছে ইউরোপীয় পার্লামেন্ট
 বিষয়ে বুধবার সেখানে একটি যৌথ প্রস্তাব পাস হয়েছে এতে ্যাব  অন্যান্য নিরাপত্তা
রক্ষাকারী বাহিনীর অব্যাহত মানবাধিকার লংঘনের বিষয়টি গুরুত্ব পেয়েছে এর মধ্যে
রয়েছে বিরোধী দলীয় নেতাকর্মীদের গুম  বিচার বহির্ভূত হত্যাকাঘটনো শাস্তি হিসেবে
মৃত্যুদবাতিল করতে বলা হয়েছে এতে নারায়ণগঞ্জে বহুল আলোচিত সেভেন হত্যা মামলার
বিষয়ে নিবিড় পর্যবেক্ষণ করছে ইউরোপীয় পার্লামেন্ট।   …………….

ইউরোপীয় পার্লামেন্টে প্রস্তাব I সাত খুনের তদন্ত নিবিড় পর্যবেক্ষণে

কূটনৈতিক প্রতিবেদক | সেপ্টেম্বর ১৯২০১৪ | Prothom Alo
 সশস্ত্র বাহিনী  পুলিশের সমন্বয়ে গঠিত ্যাপিড অ্যাকশন ব্যাটালিয়নের (্যাব)
সদস্যদের দায়মুক্তি দেওয়া বন্ধ করতে সরকারের প্রতি জোরালো আহ্বান জানিয়েছে
ইউরোপীয় পার্লামেন্ট। এর অংশ হিসেবে নারায়ণগঞ্জের আলোচিত সাত খুনের ঘটনায়
্যাব সদস্যদের জড়িত থাকার অভিযোগের তদন্ত-প্রক্রিয়া নিবিড়ভাবে পর্যবেক্ষণ
করবে তারা। একই সঙ্গে যুক্তিগ্রাহ্য ফৌজদারি অপরাধ না থাকলে গুম হওয়া ব্যক্তিকে
অবিলম্বে মুক্তি দেওয়ার আহ্বানও জানানো হয়েছে।   ………….

 

্যাবকে দায়মুক্তি না দিতে ইউরোপিয়ান পার্লামেন্টে প্রস্তাব পাস

মানবজমিন ডেস্ক | ১৯ সেপ্টেম্বর ২০১৪,
 বাংলাদেশে মানবাধিকার পরিস্থিতিতে গভীর উদ্বেগ প্রকাশ করেছে ইউরোপীয় পার্লামেন্ট।
 বিষয়ে গতকাল একটি যৌথ প্রস্তাব পাস হয়েছে। এতে ্যাবকে দায়মুক্তি দেয়া বন্ধ
করতে বলা হয়। আরও বলা হয়্যাবের মানবাধিকার লঙ্ঘন বন্ধ করা উচিত। এর
আগে বাংলাদেশের মানবাধিকারের বিস্তারিত তুলে ধরে বুধবার একটি প্রস্তাব উত্থাপিত হয়
ইউরোপীয় পার্লামেন্টে। এতে নিরাপত্তা রক্ষাকারী বাহিনীর অব্যাহত মানবাধিকার লঙ্ঘনের
বিষয়টি গুরুত্ব পেয়েছে। এর মধ্যে রয়েছে বিরোধীদলীয় নেতাকর্মীদের গুম  বিচারবহির্ভূত
হত্যাকাণ্ড ঘটানো। শাস্তি হিসেবে মৃত্যুদণ্ড বাতিল করতে বলা হয়েছে। নারায়ণগঞ্জে বহুল
আলোচিত সেভেন হত্যা মামলার বিষয়ে নিবিড় পর্যবেক্ষণ করছে ইউরোপীয় পার্লামেন্ট।
এতে মিডিয়ার স্বাধীনতা মেনে নিয়ে তার প্রতি সম্মান দেখানোর জন্য আহ্বান জানানো
হয়েছে সরকারের প্রতি। বলা হয়েছে নতুন সম্প্রচার নীতিমালা বাতিল করতে। ……….




__._,_.___

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1 of 1 File(s)


Posted by: mk haque <mk_haque@yahoo.com>


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[mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: [Dahuk]: Invitation of Secular Conferene in Patna--confusion about reality of secularism



Thanks you! you prove my point...unwittingly!!
1. This is one definition in one source as I had already quoted multiple ones to prove that that there is not one monolithic definition.
 
2. The "The second is that people of different religions and beliefs are equal before the law" is actually a subset of 'Equal Right under law regardless of race/gender/creed/religion clause .  Having Equal rights clause covers much more than religious discrimination and totally dispense with the 'Secularism' clause.  

3. Based on the above definition, how does France ban & restrict wearing hejab in public? How does Switzerland ban minaret? How does other western countries ban prayer in govt places? They all attribute to 'Secularism" clause.  The above definition does not allow govt to restrict religious freedom. Does it? 

I prove my point. Govt uses 'Secularism' to  persecute a religious group. Just as China does to Christian and Muslims. Just Soviet Union did and Russia does to Christians. Just as Western countries does to Muslims. Just as Burma does to Rohinga.


 

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com> wrote:
Secularism
"Secularism is a principle that involves two basic propositions. The first is the strict separation of the state from religious institutions. The second is that people of different religions and beliefs are equal before the law. Separation of religion from state."

People can play with the definitions but this what Secularism should really mean from its empirical experience. How this is practiced in different countries, that is another matter. A true democracy requires a true secularism hand in hand, period! No country is perfect but some are better than others. As far as I know, a Muslim dominated country would never allow a non-Muslim to be the figure head of the state or PM of the country. Is that problem? Probably not as long as the people with the same attitude would not demand the similar civil rights for their clans in a foreign society. That would constitute a grand hypocrisy. It is like, I would love to enjoy full citizenship rights in your country but I would not let you have the same rights in my village where my daddy rules.
-SD


On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com> wrote:
Mahbub - does PFC Friends have a code of conduct and a process for dealing with members who use abusive language and engage in personal attacks? It is easy to take pot shots at people when we don't like something they say, but if we want to have an intellectual debate, or express anything of substance, then we need to commit to engaging in civil discourse.  Human rights and civil rights are about respect after all even with those we disagree - if we cannot practice it in this forum then nice sounding words in any constitution become meaningless.  I am concerned that some people are deciding to leave and as a group we need to address this issue.

Also, Mahbub could you please clarify for us whether it would be possible for a Christian or Hindu or Buddhist or atheist to become PM or Head of State in an Islamic State? Would Ahmedis or Ismailis be considered Muslim with equal rights?   Would women be able to demand by law the same rights as men with respect to employment, inheritance, child custody, divorce and all rights that men enjoy?  Or would an Islamic State attempt to exercise various controls over more than half its population that would not apply to Muslim men? I am not sure how one can assume that people are equal under the law despite this kind of discrimination, unless one is only referring to criminal law.  Oh wait - I think even under criminal law, in an Islamic State one can literally get away with murder by paying blood money.  A nice perk for the wealthy.  I can certainly understand why some people would want them.

We probably need to learn more about secularism and democracy as it is practiced in different countries and I wish Muslims in India would get involved with the secularism conference, learn what their rights are and demand them under India`s constitution or organize to change the constitution.   I do know that the British don't have the Electoral College system or Super Pacs so I would suggest that their democracy is not the same as American democracy either though we all got our system of government from the British.  And if people don`t understand what secularism means, should we not learn even more about it before rejecting it?  Knowledge is power after all!

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 6:16 PM, rashed Anam <rashedanam1971@gmail.com> wrote:
According to the Marriam Wbster dictionaly Secularism word means :  "indifference to or rejection or exclusion of religion and religious considerations"

Man with that broad definition one can drive the whole tank through it.  Empowered with such broad definition France/Switzerland banned wearing hejab in public places (not only govt but public places), prayer in govt places etc (impinging on his/her religious freedom), and banned building minarat in their mosque/did not ban church (pure case of discrimination and religious persecution)

If we follow the above definition, Bangladesh violated constitutions many times every time it passed any laws that had religious elements as the driving concerns such as Islamic Foundation, Baitul Mukarkam, Friday weekly holiday as opposed to Saturday, Ramadan closure of schools, religious holidays such as Eid/Puja/Purnima, banning of sale of alcohol, pork publicly any govt program/scholarships/quota for religious minorities etc.      

It's easy for state/politicians to abuse the broad vehicle of 'Secularism' to oppress religious freedom (be it Islam/Chistianity/Hinduism).


Another dictionary says " the belief that religion should not be involved with the ordinary social and political activities of a country"

This one will bar any social activities that have any religious elements such as wearing hejab or wearing tilok in the forehead in any social gathering.  By religion I am not meaning Islam only..I mean Hindu/ christian all ...Hate-mongers likes Mr Deeldar should take notice. 


We have to remember that the whole concept of religious/politics/state affair interaction are for two reasons:
1) To Ensure people have religious freedom and the omnipotent govt not impinge on their freedom.
2) To Ensure all people have equal rights, be it religious minority/majority, ethnic minority/majority. 

(IN USA, the separation of Church & State originated out of concern of religious freedom & govt oppression of religion)

So long the above are met by specific laws (i.e anti discrimination, equal protection/rights act), what's the big fuss?

The 'secularism' only addresses religious dimension of it. But the most discrimination emanate from ethnic/racial disparities. How about economic disparities/discrimination? Do we have to have constitution article for each categories? 




  

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Posted by: rashed Anam <rashedanam1971@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: [Dahuk]: Invitation of Secular Conferene in Patna--confusion about reality of secularism



Secularism
"Secularism is a principle that involves two basic propositions. The first is the strict separation of the state from religious institutions. The second is that people of different religions and beliefs are equal before the law. Separation of religion from state."

People can play with the definitions but this what Secularism should really mean from its empirical experience. How this is practiced in different countries, that is another matter. A true democracy requires a true secularism hand in hand, period! No country is perfect but some are better than others. As far as I know, a Muslim dominated country would never allow a non-Muslim to be the figure head of the state or PM of the country. Is that problem? Probably not as long as the people with the same attitude would not demand the similar civil rights for their clans in a foreign society. That would constitute a grand hypocrisy. It is like, I would love to enjoy full citizenship rights in your country but I would not let you have the same rights in my village where my daddy rules.
-SD


On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com> wrote:
Mahbub - does PFC Friends have a code of conduct and a process for dealing with members who use abusive language and engage in personal attacks? It is easy to take pot shots at people when we don't like something they say, but if we want to have an intellectual debate, or express anything of substance, then we need to commit to engaging in civil discourse.  Human rights and civil rights are about respect after all even with those we disagree - if we cannot practice it in this forum then nice sounding words in any constitution become meaningless.  I am concerned that some people are deciding to leave and as a group we need to address this issue.

Also, Mahbub could you please clarify for us whether it would be possible for a Christian or Hindu or Buddhist or atheist to become PM or Head of State in an Islamic State? Would Ahmedis or Ismailis be considered Muslim with equal rights?   Would women be able to demand by law the same rights as men with respect to employment, inheritance, child custody, divorce and all rights that men enjoy?  Or would an Islamic State attempt to exercise various controls over more than half its population that would not apply to Muslim men? I am not sure how one can assume that people are equal under the law despite this kind of discrimination, unless one is only referring to criminal law.  Oh wait - I think even under criminal law, in an Islamic State one can literally get away with murder by paying blood money.  A nice perk for the wealthy.  I can certainly understand why some people would want them.

We probably need to learn more about secularism and democracy as it is practiced in different countries and I wish Muslims in India would get involved with the secularism conference, learn what their rights are and demand them under India`s constitution or organize to change the constitution.   I do know that the British don't have the Electoral College system or Super Pacs so I would suggest that their democracy is not the same as American democracy either though we all got our system of government from the British.  And if people don`t understand what secularism means, should we not learn even more about it before rejecting it?  Knowledge is power after all!

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 6:16 PM, rashed Anam <rashedanam1971@gmail.com> wrote:
According to the Marriam Wbster dictionaly Secularism word means :  "indifference to or rejection or exclusion of religion and religious considerations"

Man with that broad definition one can drive the whole tank through it.  Empowered with such broad definition France/Switzerland banned wearing hejab in public places (not only govt but public places), prayer in govt places etc (impinging on his/her religious freedom), and banned building minarat in their mosque/did not ban church (pure case of discrimination and religious persecution)

If we follow the above definition, Bangladesh violated constitutions many times every time it passed any laws that had religious elements as the driving concerns such as Islamic Foundation, Baitul Mukarkam, Friday weekly holiday as opposed to Saturday, Ramadan closure of schools, religious holidays such as Eid/Puja/Purnima, banning of sale of alcohol, pork publicly any govt program/scholarships/quota for religious minorities etc.      

It's easy for state/politicians to abuse the broad vehicle of 'Secularism' to oppress religious freedom (be it Islam/Chistianity/Hinduism).


Another dictionary says " the belief that religion should not be involved with the ordinary social and political activities of a country"

This one will bar any social activities that have any religious elements such as wearing hejab or wearing tilok in the forehead in any social gathering.  By religion I am not meaning Islam only..I mean Hindu/ christian all ...Hate-mongers likes Mr Deeldar should take notice. 


We have to remember that the whole concept of religious/politics/state affair interaction are for two reasons:
1) To Ensure people have religious freedom and the omnipotent govt not impinge on their freedom.
2) To Ensure all people have equal rights, be it religious minority/majority, ethnic minority/majority. 

(IN USA, the separation of Church & State originated out of concern of religious freedom & govt oppression of religion)

So long the above are met by specific laws (i.e anti discrimination, equal protection/rights act), what's the big fuss?

The 'secularism' only addresses religious dimension of it. But the most discrimination emanate from ethnic/racial disparities. How about economic disparities/discrimination? Do we have to have constitution article for each categories? 




  

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__._,_.___

Posted by: Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___