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Monday, April 6, 2015

Re: [mukto-mona] Where has all the tolerance gone



Moses wasn't trusted by his brother Aaron. As he had horns, he probably had the intelligence of horned animals. Jesus was the only illegitimate son of God. He has been mocked in "Life of Brian" and "The last temptations of Jesus Christ". It is the Prophet of Islam, whose followers abhor mocking. Even Pope Francis becomes critical of those who did it with the consequences of what happened at Charlie Hebdo, or whatever the magazine was named.

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On Apr 7, 2015, at 6:19 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Or maybe, he was not an honest mocker. Or maybe, he liked to mock the Hindu religion/culture, but not Islam. Did he mock Jesus or Moses? He certainly got a lot of fame by mocking the Hindu gods/goddesses.



On Monday, April 6, 2015 7:03 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
MFH was mocking Hindu goddesses because that's what he could afford. His goal was to test the tolerance level of Hindus. He faced some protests from the Hindu religious fanatics, but he was still alive. 
When people asked him about the reason why he do not make cartoons of any Muslim religious figure, he said, "No comment," meaning he couldn't even afford to give an honest answer to that question.
Jiten Roy 

From: "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Where has all the tolerance gone

 
As always your observation is superficial. Maqbul Fida Hussain, not FMH, painted Saraswati nude and made Sita fly in sky with the tail of Hanuman between her legs. If he dared to play with Muslim sentiment the same way, he would be chopped alive. Don't you think so, my dear Mawlana?

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On Apr 5, 2015, at 9:20 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Thanks. 

Let me make a correction. The holy mythological figure is Sita, not Saraswati. That was a typo. FMH painted Sita riding Rama devotee hanuman. Many hindutvabadis saw this as an insult to Hindus many of whom want their women to follow the ideals of Sita and Sabitri. 

Unfortunately many so called muktomonas maintain double standard on the point of allowing freedom of expression. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 5, 2015, at 12:41 AM, balakrishnan k t kannurbalukt@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
very informative



On Saturday, 28 March 2015 7:34 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
1. It is now clear that Mr. Mahfuzur Rahman's article has been thought provoking. Personally I have enjoyed the article. 

2. On the interior walls of a school one of my sons went to was written a slogan: Ours is a school of zero tolerance. No one should have any objection to such a slogan. The principle of zero tolerance should be applied whenever it comes to violations of rules, regulations and laws. Obviously appropriate authorities should enforce these. 

3. The spirits of Mr. Rahman's article do not apply to this kind of zero tolerance. It is about freedom of expression which should enjoy virtually infinite tolerance. Looks like this tolerance has been gradually running away from our society. 

4. The attack was on Daud Haider in early seventies. Then Taslima Nasrin became the victim. About a decade ago was attacked Humayun Azad. Recently we have seen two killings let alone innumerable death threats. The data point to the validity of Mr. Rahman's conjecture. The trend is there. 

5. How much one will tolerate is subjective. The cartoon of the prophet of Islam by a Christian cartoonist will not be tolerated by some and will be approved by others. The same argument applies to the paintings of Hindu goddess Saraswati and holy mythological figure Saraswati by a Muslim painter. 

6. I am not bringing up issues like gay rights and abortion as these are not related to freedom of expression. But I can bet even the Muktomonas will be divided on these issues. We see them as legal, moral and ethical issues. Moral and ethical judgments are subjective. 


Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 25, 2015, at 9:14 PM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
I am not clear as to what you are saying.




On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 6:47 PM, "'mahfuzur@aol.com' mahfuzur@aol.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
 
"Intolerance, when done right [emphasis mine], is needed." What a brilliant idea! I am dazzled. It is only that I am flabbergasted too. Perhaps this is one of the ways brilliant minds sidetrack issues. 
 
Mahfuzur Rahman 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 24, 2015 6:35 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Where has all the tolerance gone

 
Actually, it is a much bigger and more intractable problem than intolerance. The problem is lack of education, lack of development of human minds. When I say education, I mean ability of reasoning, not academic degrees. In fact, when the mind is a zombie that follows instructions from religious books, the human common sense and intelligence are gone, the ability to think is nowhere to be found; and nothing can be on the way of following the imaginary God's words. Barbaric intolerance is only a corollary to that bondage of human minds.
 
I do not think it is appropriate for anyone to think that they tolerated humanists like Dr. Avijit Roy. Rational thoughts are for learning from, for developing human minds. We tolerate faults that are not very harmful; and humanism is not a fault by any means. It is for all kinds of humans, including the Muslims, to live in a just and peaceful world.
 
In fact, intolerance, when done right, is needed. For example I am fine with any force that would be totally intolerant of the bribe culture in places like Bangladesh.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
==================================================
 


On Monday, March 23, 2015 6:07 PM, "'mahfuzur@aol.com' mahfuzur@aol.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
 
My apologies to you all. Here is (I hope) the correct link to the article in The Daily Star, March 16, 2015.
 
 
 
                                         http://www.thedailystar.net/op-ed/politics/where-has-the-tolerance-gone-71746
 
 
Mahfuzur Rahman












__._,_.___

Posted by: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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Re: [mukto-mona] Where has all the tolerance gone



Defending freedom of expression is not the same as loving freedom of expression. One defends your freedom of expression does not mean he/she likes what you express. Well, maybe, I am not an art lover; but I never heard of him until the news of his rubbish work on the Hindu gods/goddesses. How much did you know about him before that, Professor Chakrabarty?
 


On Monday, April 6, 2015 9:29 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
You are wrong. FMH was a respectable and renowned painter. Any way, his Saraswati and Sita paintings are acid test for many of who claim to be lovers of freedom of expression. This simply exposes our double standard and the hidden intolerance. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 6, 2015, at 6:03 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
MFH was mocking Hindu goddesses because that's what he could afford. His goal was to test the tolerance level of Hindus. He faced some protests from the Hindu religious fanatics, but he was still alive. 
When people asked him about the reason why he do not make cartoons of any Muslim religious figure, he said, "No comment," meaning he couldn't even afford to give an honest answer to that question.
Jiten Roy 

From: "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Where has all the tolerance gone

 
As always your observation is superficial. Maqbul Fida Hussain, not FMH, painted Saraswati nude and made Sita fly in sky with the tail of Hanuman between her legs. If he dared to play with Muslim sentiment the same way, he would be chopped alive. Don't you think so, my dear Mawlana?

Sent from my iPad



On Apr 5, 2015, at 9:20 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Thanks. 

Let me make a correction. The holy mythological figure is Sita, not Saraswati. That was a typo. FMH painted Sita riding Rama devotee hanuman. Many hindutvabadis saw this as an insult to Hindus many of whom want their women to follow the ideals of Sita and Sabitri. 

Unfortunately many so called muktomonas maintain double standard on the point of allowing freedom of expression. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 5, 2015, at 12:41 AM, balakrishnan k t kannurbalukt@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
very informative



On Saturday, 28 March 2015 7:34 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
1. It is now clear that Mr. Mahfuzur Rahman's article has been thought provoking. Personally I have enjoyed the article. 

2. On the interior walls of a school one of my sons went to was written a slogan: Ours is a school of zero tolerance. No one should have any objection to such a slogan. The principle of zero tolerance should be applied whenever it comes to violations of rules, regulations and laws. Obviously appropriate authorities should enforce these. 

3. The spirits of Mr. Rahman's article do not apply to this kind of zero tolerance. It is about freedom of expression which should enjoy virtually infinite tolerance. Looks like this tolerance has been gradually running away from our society. 

4. The attack was on Daud Haider in early seventies. Then Taslima Nasrin became the victim. About a decade ago was attacked Humayun Azad. Recently we have seen two killings let alone innumerable death threats. The data point to the validity of Mr. Rahman's conjecture. The trend is there. 

5. How much one will tolerate is subjective. The cartoon of the prophet of Islam by a Christian cartoonist will not be tolerated by some and will be approved by others. The same argument applies to the paintings of Hindu goddess Saraswati and holy mythological figure Saraswati by a Muslim painter. 

6. I am not bringing up issues like gay rights and abortion as these are not related to freedom of expression. But I can bet even the Muktomonas will be divided on these issues. We see them as legal, moral and ethical issues. Moral and ethical judgments are subjective. 


Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 25, 2015, at 9:14 PM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
I am not clear as to what you are saying.




On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 6:47 PM, "'mahfuzur@aol.com' mahfuzur@aol.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
 
"Intolerance, when done right [emphasis mine], is needed." What a brilliant idea! I am dazzled. It is only that I am flabbergasted too. Perhaps this is one of the ways brilliant minds sidetrack issues. 
 
Mahfuzur Rahman 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 24, 2015 6:35 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Where has all the tolerance gone

 
Actually, it is a much bigger and more intractable problem than intolerance. The problem is lack of education, lack of development of human minds. When I say education, I mean ability of reasoning, not academic degrees. In fact, when the mind is a zombie that follows instructions from religious books, the human common sense and intelligence are gone, the ability to think is nowhere to be found; and nothing can be on the way of following the imaginary God's words. Barbaric intolerance is only a corollary to that bondage of human minds.
 
I do not think it is appropriate for anyone to think that they tolerated humanists like Dr. Avijit Roy. Rational thoughts are for learning from, for developing human minds. We tolerate faults that are not very harmful; and humanism is not a fault by any means. It is for all kinds of humans, including the Muslims, to live in a just and peaceful world.
 
In fact, intolerance, when done right, is needed. For example I am fine with any force that would be totally intolerant of the bribe culture in places like Bangladesh.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
==================================================
 


On Monday, March 23, 2015 6:07 PM, "'mahfuzur@aol.com' mahfuzur@aol.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
 
My apologies to you all. Here is (I hope) the correct link to the article in The Daily Star, March 16, 2015.
 
 
 
                                         http://www.thedailystar.net/op-ed/politics/where-has-the-tolerance-gone-71746
 
 
Mahfuzur Rahman












__._,_.___

Posted by: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___