That is O. K. I came to know Picasso decades ago through my association with Alliance Francaise, and for a while I thought he was born in France. Only a twisted mind of a half wit could bring about such irrelevant issues in writing about lack of tolerance in Mahfuzur Rahman's article. While the whole world is concerned about lack of tolerance in Muslim dominated societies since the inception of Islam , our wise resident mawlana has a different opinion and sees double standard in us. Only if the fool knew anything about Islam, his opinion would have been appreciated. Apparently he is a patient of attention deficiency syndrome and should consult a psychiatrist.
Paintings by Vincent Van Gogh fetched highest price thus far. In my opinion, however, cubism has failed to draw mass appreciation. Who is the best painter? Mamata Banerjee thinks, she is.
Sent from my iPad
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 12, 2015, at 9:12 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Dr. Das, you are right, I mentioned Picasso with the Mona Lisa, because that's how I came to know Picasso.We were discussing Mona Lisa in the High School art class, and Art teacher mentioned Picasso as the best painter in the world.Subimal asked me if I heard about Picasso, and I gave him a little rundown of the event leading to my introduction to Picasso.Jiten Roy
From: "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2015 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Where has all the tolerance gone
I am sorry, Dr. Roy really mentioned Mona Lisa in connection with Picasso. MFH and PP might not have been equally famous, but both of them were invited as guests of honor in an exhibition in Brazil long ago.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 12, 2015, at 8:24 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:A quick correction!Mona Lisa was painted by Leonardo Davinci, not by Picasso. Picasso's most famous painting, I believe 'Guernica'. I really do not know the best painting of Fida. He is not a Picasso not even close. That would be considered as a blasphemy.. I would put Jamini Roy far ahead of Fida as far as Indian art is concerned.On Saturday, April 11, 2015 8:41 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Are you trying to belittle me? You asked me - if I have heard about Picasso or not; you must be kidding!Mr. Chakraborty, I heard about Picasso through Mona Lisa at school. If Fida was really as good as the Picasso, we would have known about him as well; we did not have to wait until his ugly paintings of Hindu deities.There is a difference between judging a painting and a scientific theory. To judge a painting, one would require a special intellect, but to judge a scientific theory, one would only requires proof that it works. Not everybody has the intellect to judge a painting. I still don't know – what is so special about Mona Lisa.You said:"I can still rely on the authorities in the field."That's what laymen do; they depend on other peoples' opinion. If it's your choice, I have nothing to say.Jiten Roy
From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Where has all the tolerance gone
Have you heard about Picasso? Cubism? He is called Picasso of India. Frankly speaking I never took a course on art appreciation. But does it really matter? Why don't we rely on the authorities in the field? I probably understand 0.0001% of what Einstein has done. To call him a great scientist do I have to understand 100% of what did? Bad logic Dr. Roy. I can still rely on the authorities in the field.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 11, 2015, at 11:58 AM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Don't talk about something that you don't know. Do you know - what does make an art great? I don't.MF Rahman drew international attention through the offensive paintings of gods and goddesses. Before that, very few people, outside India, knew about him.Do you call those offensive paintings of gods and goddesses as great arts?Jiten Roy
From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2015 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Where has all the tolerance gone
I don't know what to say. I just want to reiterate that I will not bring up any issues when it comes to appreciate great arts and paintings. You may want to keep analyzing Fida the way you want.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 10, 2015, at 7:24 PM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:I am not here to judge Fida as a great or mediocre artist. There could be many thousand Indian artists, who might have been qualitatively far better than Fida but never saw the day's light. I say this with confidence because the quality of arts/paintings is very subjective. They are simply not quantifiable. The man was lucky. Was he a great painter? Because he got some prizes? That is not a best way to judge an artist.Anyway, I do not find his work/expression problematic. He knew perfectly well that he would not be able to paint the prophet but a naked Durga. So, the guy himself had some double standard to begin with. He lived a long life in India and that tells me that people tolerated him very well except some extreme people. But, the same can't be said about Paris killings or Theo Vangog killing. These killers escaped their countries of origin for a better life in the west but failed to honor the culture and tradition of the land. Do you understand the difference? If people do not like the free liberal society of the west, why can't they pack and leave? What would western countries be missing?So, where do you find my double standard?On Friday, April 10, 2015 10:32 AM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
As far as I understand him, your logic should not apply to him. He was a creative genius and loved to do experimentation. You may want to google him. He received highest recognition. That's not the issue. My wonderment is why we are raising all these questions when it comes to Fida's works and not the French cartoonist. Has it some thing to do with our mindset? Read Das's comments. He is not saying that he welcomes his paintings.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2015, at 8:46 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Please read my post again before you apply your broad brush stroke. I said only the obvious. An artist is also a salesman. He was a creative artist but needed to sell his products. Historically many artists were/are provocative for that very good reasons. I think most of the Indians tolerate him more than you think.On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 7:05 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Reaction from Dr. Jiten Roy, Dr. Bain, Prof. Das, and Mr. Deeldar clearly support my view many of us main double standard when it comes to honoring freedom of expression. French Christian cartoonist and Indian Muslim painter are not equal! When you support the latter, you are criticized! If you don't support the former, you are criticized!
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 7, 2015, at 8:41 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:My guess is that he wanted to be a controversial person at the very late stage of his life and sell more of his paintings. I am sure prices went up few notches after Hindus started to protest. It was a calculated risk for an old man.As a supporter of free expression, I do not see any problem with his products. A Muslim is far more freer in an infidel country than in any Islamic country. The proof is in the pudding!On Monday, April 6, 2015 9:33 PM, "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
The Persian equivalent of Saraswati is Sura Aredvi Anahita. She was usually portrayed stark naked mounted on a lion. She transformed into Durga and Kali of Hinduism later. No religion is free from sex symbol. To put an emphasis on it is risky enough to invite the wrath of it's followers.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 6, 2015, at 7:33 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:I do not care who the painter/cartoonist is; I do not see any good purpose in painting/drawing distasteful physical appearances of religious icons. Criticizing their rubbish and hateful messages has the purpose of removing nonsense and hatred from human societies; painting/drawing them nude, for example, could cause only provocations with no positive outcome.On Sunday, April 5, 2015 4:26 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Thanks.Let me make a correction. The holy mythological figure is Sita, not Saraswati. That was a typo. FMH painted Sita riding Rama devotee hanuman. Many hindutvabadis saw this as an insult to Hindus many of whom want their women to follow the ideals of Sita and Sabitri.Unfortunately many so called muktomonas maintain double standard on the point of allowing freedom of expression.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 5, 2015, at 12:41 AM, balakrishnan k t kannurbalukt@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:very informativeOn Saturday, 28 March 2015 7:34 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
1. It is now clear that Mr. Mahfuzur Rahman's article has been thought provoking. Personally I have enjoyed the article.2. On the interior walls of a school one of my sons went to was written a slogan: Ours is a school of zero tolerance. No one should have any objection to such a slogan. The principle of zero tolerance should be applied whenever it comes to violations of rules, regulations and laws. Obviously appropriate authorities should enforce these.3. The spirits of Mr. Rahman's article do not apply to this kind of zero tolerance. It is about freedom of expression which should enjoy virtually infinite tolerance. Looks like this tolerance has been gradually running away from our society.4. The attack was on Daud Haider in early seventies. Then Taslima Nasrin became the victim. About a decade ago was attacked Humayun Azad. Recently we have seen two killings let alone innumerable death threats. The data point to the validity of Mr. Rahman's conjecture. The trend is there.5. How much one will tolerate is subjective. The cartoon of the prophet of Islam by a Christian cartoonist will not be tolerated by some and will be approved by others. The same argument applies to the paintings of Hindu goddess Saraswati and holy mythological figure Saraswati by a Muslim painter.6. I am not bringing up issues like gay rights and abortion as these are not related to freedom of expression. But I can bet even the Muktomonas will be divided on these issues. We see them as legal, moral and ethical issues. Moral and ethical judgments are subjective.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 25, 2015, at 9:14 PM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
