[ALOCHONA] Re: Was our military short-staffed during the BDR Mutiny and if so why?

The subject of this thread is did India deliberately divert a section of our commanding officers and troops away from Dhaka on the pretext of a training exercise to prevent a prompt response by the military to the BDR mutiny?

The reason that the ISI is rarely brought up as a serious contender of conspiracies is because they are utterly incompetent. The simply do not have the ability to carry out such an intricate plan as this. There is also the motivation issue where Pakistan has none in undermining our military but India certainly does.

--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Cyrus <thoughtocrat@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Mahbub:
>
> It is sad that like rest of your group, you accuse anyone who picks rationality and actual facts as Indian stooges. Unlike Munshi et.al. I don't take my talking points from either India or Pakistan, or BNP or BAL. If I were so inclined to support India or RAW, then I wouldn't be talking against them all the time, would I? Refer to my previous posts, and you will see how I detest both RAW and ISI agents who use my country, our country, as a proxy war field. My problem is that the Munshi cabal keep drumming up fears about RAW, while conveniently covering up numerous covert operations by ISI. Perhaps you should grow a pro-Bangladeshi bent and lecture the Munshi cabal to start giving credible facts. Perhaps then, you can come back with your self-righteousness and ask me or anyone not to be "blind".
>
> I am, and have always been pro-Bangladesh. Are you?
>
> Cyrus
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: M M R <mole_engineer@...>
> To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 10:25:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Was our military short-staffed during the BDR Mutiny and if so why?
>
>
>
>
>
> TO Cyrus,
>
> Your voice is same what India says (Pakistan is doing proxy war from Bangladesh). I just want to say, dont be blind. ISI is trying to prove that Independence of Bangladesh from Pakistan was wrong. But RAW is really doing very bad for Bangladesh. Raw is trying to show Bangladesh a Terrorist country, failed country, and also trying to block all of developments.
>
> You saw that ISI giving arms and money to ULFA and others, why haven't looked on that RAW is providing moral, financial, stratigical, political, and millitary support to Bongosena, Shantibahini, and so other terrorist groups who are active inside and outside Bangladesh.
>
> Finally. ISI and RAW both are trying to emolish our honor and pride.
>
> Be a Pro-Bangladeshi, not Pro-Indian and Pro-Pakistani.
>
> Mahmud 
>
>
> --- On Thu, 5/21/09, Cyrus <thoughtocrat@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Cyrus <thoughtocrat@ yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Was our military short-staffed during the BDR Mutiny and if so why?
> To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
> Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 11:00 AM
>
>
> Do you have any access to the intelligence community in Bangladesh? or Indian or Pakistani intelligence community with credible intelligence reports? Do you have any credible evidence to suggest that RAW staged the BDR massacre and that RAW undermines Islam and Bangladesh? Or did you just pull that out of your pseudo-intellectual Paki defense forum? Fortunately, I do have access to the Bangladeshi intelligence community, and I know how ridiculous your doctrine and your comments are. Unfortunately, I cannot disclose my sources and can only write here after filtering information.
>
> There is a difference between conspiracy theory and factual analysis. I doubt that you understand the difference. RAW may be involved in insurgency, but so is ISI who fights a proxy war against India, supplying weapons and rations to Indian insurgents from ULFA and Nagaland militants. I guess you missed out on that intelligence report or an "intelligent analysis", huh? It's fun to fight against a big bad wolf that is India, like the Americans did against the USSR. This kind of nonsense has rallied up young Muslim men in your fatherland, Pakistan, and in Bangladesh as if their faith and freedom are in great jeopardy. More have died to fight the big bad wolf, and the "intellectuals" like yourself have sat there and propagated their "doctrines". Personally, I find no difference between you guys and the reactionary BJP "intellectuals" like Bal Thackery, Advani, et. al.
>
> Neoconservative thinking, protectionist views, and conspiracy theories have no place in this century of information. Bengali or Bangladeshi Nationalism is a failed idea, and looks like your version of Islamic Nationalism is on the rise. Hopefully, people will see through the garbage and judge for themselves.
>
> Good luck fighting the big bad wolf.
>
> Cyrus
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: M.B.I. Munshi <MBIMunshi@gmail. com>
> To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:12:26 AM
> Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Was our military short-staffed during the BDR Mutiny and if so why?
>
>
>
> That is absolutely incorrect. For the last six years I have been drawing attention to the fact that these so called Islamist terrorists were able to obtain entry into India and procure military grade weapons and explosives for use here. There is every likelihood that these groups are creations of RAW to undermine Islam and Bangladesh. This is not at all absurd since we know that RAW will sink to any depths to achieve their objectives. The BDR mutiny and the recent Lahore attacks were all RAW operations. The army report indicated that Torab Ali (a DD at BDR) had been making mobile calls outside the country. This was almost certainly to India. Please read my book The India Doctrine (1947-2007) which relies on books, research and strategy papers, intelligence reports and articles to substantiate the claims on Indian subversive tactics. The book is available at The Bookworm for anyone who is interested.
>
> --- In alochona@yahoogroup s.com, "musasarkar" <m_musa92870@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Mr. Wohid,
> >
> > What I wanted to say is what MBI Munshi writes now, later turns out to
> > be untrue. May Allah give you enough intelligence to understand that.
>

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RE: [ALOCHONA] Govt prefers political appointment in key missions

It is not acceptable but in the same time BNP Jamaati diplomats should remove immidiately.
 

---

To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
From: ezajur.rahman@q8.com
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 08:59:50 +0300
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Govt prefers political appointment in key missions

Govt prefers political appointment in key missions
Courtesy New Age 24/5/09

The Awami League-led government seems to prefer contractual appointment on political considerations in key Bangladesh missions abroad such as the United States, India and the United Kingdom rather than sending career diplomats there.
   Such political appointments in strategically important missions, foreign policy experts said, may create resentment among the diplomats who have dreamt of such postings throughout their career.
   The government has already decided to send former Bangladesh ambassador to the United States Tariq A Karim to India and former Rahshahi University vice-chancellor Saidur Rahman Khan to London as high commissioners on a contractual basis.
   The government is also set to appoint Syed Muazzem Ali as Bangldesh's ambassador to the United States.
   Former ambassadors close to the government, however, feel there is nothing wrong with contractual appointments as the countries of assignment give importance to the ambassadors who are 'close to top government leaders.'
   Sources in the government told New Age the government wanted to begin with a rejuvenated team to attain extended goals of the ruling party's domestic policies and to fulfil the people's expectations reflected in the electoral mandate.
   'Our ambassadors and high commissioners must act as alter egos of the head of the government. Those people [persons made heads of missions] must reflect the state policy and programme to get better access to their designated destinations,' Mostafa Faruque Mohammad, a former high commissioner in New Delhi, told New Age on Saturday.
   Mostafa Faruque, also a member on the parliamentary committee on foreign affairs ministry, said such assignments these days were economic as well as political jobs and therefore people need to have expertise and experience.
   A former senior diplomat said career diplomats could serve better than politically appointed people because of their expertise in related jobs.
   'It is not guaranteed that a people having a good political contact with the government serves better than a diplomat,' he said. 'Such appointments outside the service may create frustration among serving diplomats waiting for such posting.'
   Referring to Bangladesh's previous posting in New Delhi, the diplomat said four, out of the 10, high commissioners including Faruq A Choudhury, Farooq Sobhan, CM Shafi Shami and Hemayetuddin later worked as foreign secretaries.
   He said working in strategically important missions give them a chance to prepare themselves for the post of top diplomat of the country.
   The government has also already appointed Saiful Haque, an expatriate Bangladeshi businessman in Russia, as the country's ambassador in Moscow, replacing Mohamed Mijarul Quayes, who is considered a candidate for the post of foreign secretary.
   The government is also set to appoint Abul Barakat, an economist and teacher of Dhaka University, as head of the Bangladesh's permanent mission in Geneva, former Bangladesh high commissioner in London Giasuddin as ambassador to Germany, Dhaka University teacher Neem Chandra Bhoumik as ambassador in Kathmandu, Abahani Limited director Shahed Reja, also a close friend to the late Sheikh Kamal, as ambassador in Kuwait and the finance minister's younger brother Abul Momen as ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

 

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To all those who want Bismillah in the preamble of the constitution of Bangladesh need to understand the meaning of secularism. If we want that mosque and state are to be separated and which means that the state of Bangladesh will be ruled by modern laws and therefore religion has no place in running of the state. If this principle is accepted than Bismillah is a word directly associated with Islam logically can't be included in the constitution. When officially it's said that Islam is the state religion of Bangladesh than Bangladesh is not a secular state. Period. Therefore it's imperative that one has to prove whether Bangladesh is a secular state or not. Now a few blunt facts. To many people Bangladesh was destined to be a secular state at the beginning but the politicians never understood the meaning of secularism. Even Sheikh Mujib did not have the intellectual capability to understand the implications of secularism. Islam is a big business in Bangladesh and the politicians are not that stupid to miss the opportunity. Mullahs have termed secularism as Godlessness and they have the prerogative to declare someone secular as a murtaad who is punishable by beheading. The prime ministers and presidents of Bangladesh frequently make trips to Mecca although some of them talks often about secularism very loudly. This is hypocrisy, opportunism and stupidity. If we accept religion as a personal matter this controversy would not have been there today. But this is a far cry in Bangladesh. Because this is a heavenly business to form some capital to purchase a ticket to the heavens. There are only seven heavens and more than a billion people are on the queue.

  

Akbar Hussain

---

To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
From: nistabdhota@yahoo.com.au
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 09:26:49 -0700
Subject: [ALOCHONA] News of HOPE! --be fully prepared to face noisy, nasty resistance

The concept of equality, fairness and freedom of religion doesn't befit the Bangladeshi version of ultra-secularism, one of the strongest proofs being the secularist-cults opposition of "Bismillah" in the constitution. The ugliest facade of the Bangladeshi version of ultra-secularism is to vehemently oppose Islam that is the faith of the majority. When they project the issue of equality, fairness and freedom of religion in support of their opposition to Islam, it's simply defrauding the people in which they are so cunning. See how they defrauded the nation by all those charming and exciting manifesto before the last election compared to the character they are exposing now. Our constitution, as it is now, safeguards all fundamental rights including equality, fairness and freedom of religion. Bismllah and Islam as the state religion in the constitution do not derogate the less from any fundamental rights of the citizens than underpinning them. Can the secularist-cults produce a single and simple extra benefit that they can add to the service of the fundamental rights by removing Bismillah and Islam from the constitution? Why does the removal of Bismillah and Islam from the constitution become vitally important? Does it serve the people of Bangladesh at all or just serves the political interests of the ultra-secularist cults???

---

From: Cyrus <thoughtocrat@yahoo.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 22 May, 2009 7:36:41 PM
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] News of HOPE! --be fully prepared to face noisy, nasty resistance

Dear Alochok Rahman:

 

I am afraid that the debate over "Bismillah" is mostly an academic one, no matter how you slice it. After all, the constitution of any country is a set of written principles that the country must follow. We can choose not to respect it and device our own language, which in our case, is the precise problem. The spiritual nature of our people is not in question here, and by removing traces of any religion, our relationship to god will not be affected in any shape or form. However, when you state that you don't see the need to remove state sponsorship of a particular religion from the constitution, I strongly disagree. We are not an Islamic Republic, although many would love to see that happen. We follow and respect all sorts of religions and practices in Bangladesh, and have been doing so for the last three thousand years. To impose Islam as the dominant voice of the people in the constitution is to draw the line between "equality" and "fairness" principles of which you seem to be a "fan".

 

Your assertion that in the U.S., the state motto "In God we trust" is merely token symbolism is unfortunately historically inaccurate. The motto was added by the Congress in about 1864, immediately after the civil war, to appease the strong protestant Christian sentiments of the civil war soldiers from both sides. During the civil war, one of the accusations that the South drummed up against the Union is that they are trying to establish a secular and "godless" country, and many southern soldiers actually joined the fight because they thought they were fighting against the godless Union. (Has strange resemblance to our own struggle for independence, doesn't it?) In God we trust was later added as a motto of the new union, and the controversy over this line hasn't stopped since then. Several lawsuits filed against the U.S., most notably by Michael Newdow, comes to mind, which he lost at the Supreme Court.

 

The exclusion of a state sponsored religion is not about bringing "positive changes" in peoples lives. It is about setting the tone for governance of a nation, based on the principles of equality, justice, and fairness. It is about making the government represent the diversity of color, creed, race, religion, sexual orientation in our country. The very phrase, "Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim" is an Arabic phrase, and the last time we checked, we are not an Arab nation. You are right. It is exactly like imposing another language on us, and "Arabize" whatever belief we hold or have held for thousands of years.

 

Proponents of including "Bismillah" has more loyalty towards the Saudis than their own countrymen, and claim that removing Bismillah from the constitution is equivalent to converting the country into "Hinduism" and an assault on our faith. They forget, quite conveniently and for obvious financial reasons that Islam didn't come to our country as a gift. Islam came to Bangladesh on horseback with swords and the might of the Ottoman Empire. If "Bismillah" is a token symbolism than the removal of it should not in any shape affect our faith in Allah, should it? Or is it that we are too engrossed in symbolism and rituals that we cannot and will not understand the meaning of Islam and practice our own faith?

 

Another common misconception that most people have, and I've been fighting it for as long as I can remember, is that "secularism" is about "removing god". That definition or characterization is categorically wrong and has its foundation in the pseudo-intellectual , neoconservative, Islamic fundamentalist propaganda book. Secularism is not about removing god from anything! It is about removing the influence or dominance of one particular religion or faith from state governance. Secularism, at its core, is about equal opportunity for all where everyone is free to worship their own god.

 

A constitution is the representation of peoples' strong held principles, by which they wish to govern themselves. It is not, and should not be, representative of the majority or the minority. In Iraq, Saddam Hossain ruled the country by Sunni principles and massacred Shiites and Kurds, ruled over them with an iron fist, and persecuted Iraqi Jews. In Iran, the Supreme Council and Khomeini dictated how the Islamic Republic should be governed under Shia principles and exiled the Sunni leaders, Iranian Jews and Christians.

 

In Bangladesh (or pre-independence Bangladesh), we had vibrant communities of Armenian Christians and Jews, Greek Orthodox, Tajik and Uzbek Muslims, Afghans, Thai Buddhists, Hindus, Catholics and Protestants, and of course, Shia and Sunni Muslims. Most of the fringe groups are long gone as East Bengal became East Pakistan and then eventually Bangladesh. But the secular foundation and tolerant culture of our country still exists. It is in that spirit of secularism, we need to go back to our fundamental governing principles; the state shall not impose, sanction, influence, sponsor or dictate the religion of any inhabitants, and that the governance of the nation would rely on the established laws of the land only!

 

Cheers,

Cyrus

---

From: "qrahman@netscape. net" <qrahman@netscape. net>
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 2:09:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] News of HOPE! --be fully prepared to face noisy, nasty resistance

I am afraid we are looking at this as an academic " debate" only.
We need to go deeper than that. There are reasons why major political
parties left it alone. Despite our history of politicians abusing Islam
to advance their personal interest, majority of our population are
spiritual in nature and do not see the need to remove all token
presense of God in our lives. Islam is seen as an idea that promotes
good things in our communities.

For the same reason the US left "In God we trust" on dollar bills.
Those who are familier with US constitution know that it is Not a
Christian country. It has clear direction to seperate Church and State.
I am still flexible if I find any proof that removing those word will
bring positive changes to our country. I am yet to see it.
Islam is a pragmatic faith if understood properly. Prophet
Muhammad(PBUH) done similar thing to secure peace and end continuous
wars with pact of Hudaibeah.
We are not French and imposing a foreign value (strict secularism by
removing God) will end up bringing results and reactions similar to
1952 when we were forced to embrace a foreign language.
I am a fan of equal treatment and justice for all. Since BD laws are
not religious and secular in nature it is(Removing Bismillah) not
important for my country.
-qar

-----Original Message-----
From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@ hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, 20 May 2009 02:53:11 -0400
Subject:
[ALOCHONA] News of HOPE! --be fully prepared to face noisy,
nasty resistance

 

From: farida_majid@ hotmail.com
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] News of HOPE! --be fully prepared to face
noisy, nasty resistance
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:38:11 -0400

   Sentimentalization of "bismillah" on the Constitution has begun just
as I aprehended.  Anyone with eyes to read and understand plain
English would not have asked the following question: Why "Bismillah" is
a problem for you?

     Please, can I invite all, yes, ALL of us to put a little effort
and improve our understanding of this important issue?
 
      No single political party -- Awami League, BNP, or whatever --
can or  should keep   "bismillah" in the Constitution or expel it. By
the same token, its inclusion in the constitution by a Military
Dictator's whim was illegal. 
 
      However, "bismillah" is staying for the moment, as the Law
Minister indicated, not because of the AL goodness of the heart. The
act of including "bismillah" was done out side the legal realm covered
by the Fifth Amendment,1979. The present action is to activate (dismiss
the stay order) the High Court Judgment on 29th August, 2005 -- a
response to the Writ Petition # 6016/2000, Italian Marble Co. - Moon
Cinema Ha
ll.
 
    This Judgment called for a repeal of Fifth Amendment that was
passed under the clout of Martial Law in 1979 and all 'illegal
acts' that subsequently  validated the usurpation of power.  The Fifth
Amendment, 1979, not only changed "the basic structure as well as the
character of the Constitution in its totality, but rather, uprooted the
Constitution; it was no amendment in the eye of law, but destruction of
the Constitution altogether, as such ultra vires to the Constitution. "
 
            The above is a direct quote from the Judgment issued on the
Moon Cinema Hall case in 2005 by the bench consisting of Mr. Justice
ABM Khairul Haque and Mr. Justice ATM Fazle Kabir.
            
              Anyone can check the authenticity of the quote. It was
one of the most masterful Judgments isued by the judiciary in the short
history of Bangladesh.
 
                   Farida Majid
         
  

To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
From: qrahman@netscape. net
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 01:44:43 -0400
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] News of HOPE! --be fully prepared to face
noisy, nasty resistance

Ms Majid,
Why "Bismillah" is a problem for you?=0
D
FYI, Awami League is keeping it.
Now I'll share some good news. Jamaat took your idea and removed it
from their party constitution.
What's next?
Let me give you some food for thought. The word "Awami" came from Urdu.
Let me see how you can "Update" it.
Apparently Jamaat is more "Flexible" about these "Minor" issues as long
it takes them to haven AKA "Power".
My bet is Jamaat will give in first.

Good luck.
-qar

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RE: [ALOCHONA] Churi - Delwar Style and Chore Chore Mastuto Bhai

Not only that.Today Prothom-alo has published more.Here is the link, Enjoy:http://www.prothom-alo.com/mcat.news.details.php?nid=MTU3MTI1&mid=MQ=
 
Rgds
Chowdhury
 

 

---

To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
From: m_musa92870@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 03:15:23 +0000
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Churi - Delwar Style and Chore Chore Mastuto Bhai



Petrol churi, chikitsar name churi, oshudh churi, shongshoder canteen theke churi, shongshoder taka diye bashar bazaar churi, ar ekhon ashbabpotro churi. er shes kothai?

Source: http://www.prothom-alo.com/print.php?t=h&nid=MjM4OTc=

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RE: [ALOCHONA] A Brief Summary on Moudud and His Characteristics

I click it, bangla is unreadable. I check it today's(25/5/09)Prothom-alo but I did not find it.Can you tell me in which section of Prothom-alo?
 
Kind Regards
 
J.A.Chowdhury
 

---

To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
From: m_musa92870@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 07:59:17 +0000
Subject: [ALOCHONA] A Brief Summary on Moudud and His Characteristics



The following article in Prothom Alo sums up concisely BNP leader Moudud's political life.  It accurately portrays the most morally corrupt political mind in Bangladesh today.
Source: http://prothom-alo.com/print.php?t=m&nid=MTU2ODg3

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[ALOCHONA] Govt prefers political appointment in key missions

Hi Akbar, you are talking about wisdom and something from the discarded domain of ethics, but all they are doing is part of their BAKSALization and BALization agenda. You are talking only about appointment of diplomats, where have you been when a renowned BAList cult was recently appointed as the Vice Chancellor of the foremost university of the country? If what they did with regard to the topmost institution of education in the country is simply "jaiz" to them then their policy with regard to the diplomatic missions must be "wajib" or "farz" for them at minimum. If you like this policy, speak up your voice but if you don't you better shut up lest those lurking around you will assault on you immediately. You better take care of yourself otherwise they have thousand ways to prove and incriminate you as a "jongi" if you are not liked to them.

---

From: Akbar Hussain <akbar_50@hotmail.com>
To: alochona group <alochona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 24 May, 2009 4:40:00 PM
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] Govt prefers political appointment in key missions

Key diplomatic appointments on the basis of political affinity are not an idea based on wisdom. This is truer in unstable and nascent democracies. In the corrupted and bitterly polarized political culture of Bangladesh this step will make diplomacy unstable and aimless and parochial. Diplomats should be chosen by their experience not by their political affiliation. In this connection I would say that the Bangladeshi diplomatic missions abroad do not perform as they are supposed to do. Their performances do not replicate the modern art of diplomacy. A lethargic and home oriented atmosphere is visible every where. The idea of political appointment will make situation more worse.

 

Akbar Hussain

---

To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
From: ezajur.rahman@ q8.com
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 08:59:50 +0300
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Govt prefers political appointment in key missions

Govt prefers political appointment in key missions
Courtesy New Age 24/5/09

The Awami League-led government seems to prefer contractual appointment on political considerations in key Bangladesh missions abroad such as the United States, India and the United Kingdom rather than sending career diplomats there.
   Such political appointments in strategically important missions, foreign policy experts said, may create resentment among the diplomats who have dreamt of such postings throughout their career.
   The government has already decided to send former Bangladesh ambassador to the United States Tariq A Karim to India and former Rahshahi University vice-chancellor Saidur Rahman Khan to London as high commissioners on a contractual basis.
   The government is also set to appoint Syed Muazzem Ali as Bangldesh's ambassador to the United States.
   Former ambassadors close to the government, however, feel there is nothing wrong with contractual appointments as the countries of assignment give importance to the ambassadors who are 'close to top government leaders.'
   Sources in the government told New Age the government wanted to begin with a rejuvenated team to attain extended goals of the ruling party's domestic policies and to fulfil the people's expectations reflected in the electoral mandate.
   'Our ambassadors and high commissioners must act as alter egos of the head of the government. Those people [persons made heads of missions] must reflect the state policy and programme to get better access to their designated destinations,' Mostafa Faruque Mohammad, a former high commissioner in New Delhi, told New Age on Saturday.
   Mostafa Faruque, also a member on the parliamentary committee on foreign affairs ministry, said such assignments these days were economic as well as political jobs and therefore people need to have expertise and experience.
   A former senior diplomat said career diplomats could serve better than politically appointed people because of their expertise in related jobs.
   'It is not guaranteed that a people having a good political contact with the government serves better than a diplomat,' he said. 'Such appointments outside the service may create frustration among serving diplomats waiting for such posting.'
   Referring to Bangladesh's previous posting in New Delhi, the diplomat said four, out of the 10, high commissioners including Faruq A Choudhury, Farooq Sobhan, CM Shafi Shami and Hemayetuddin later worked as foreign secretaries.
   He said working in strategically important missions give them a chance to prepare themselves for the post of top diplomat of the country.
   The government has also already appointed Saiful Haque, an expatriate Bangladeshi businessman in Russia, as the country's ambassador in Moscow, replacing Mohamed Mijarul Quayes, who is considered a candidate for the post of foreign secretary.
   The government is also set to appoint Abul Barakat, an economist and teacher of Dhaka University, as head of the Bangladesh's permanent mission in Geneva, former Bangladesh high commissioner in London Giasuddin as ambassador to Germany, Dhaka University teacher Neem Chandra Bhoumik as ambassador in Kathmandu, Abahani Limited director Shahed Reja, also a close friend to the late Sheikh Kamal, as ambassador in Kuwait and the finance minister's younger brother Abul Momen as ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

 

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[ALOCHONA] Was our military short-staffed during the BDR Mutiny and if so why?

Dear Cyrus,

Do you need to declare what you are? As the well known legal maxim "Res Ipsa Loquitur" (or "the thing speaks for itself") signifies, your identity is more than proven through your stand and statement. I'm sure you know the Bangla proverb as well  "বৃক্ষ তোমার নাম কি, ফলে পরিচয়"। Therefore, no matter whether you declare or hide your political affiliation/identity and loyalty to any country, your defense position well establishes what you are and where you come from without any doubt. Regards. Wohid

---

From: Cyrus <thoughtocrat@yahoo.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 8:48:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Was our military short-staffed during the BDR Mutiny and if so why?

Dear Mahbub:

 

It is sad that like rest of your group, you accuse anyone who picks rationality and actual facts as Indian stooges. Unlike Munshi et.al. I don't take my talking points from either India or Pakistan, or BNP or BAL. If I were so inclined to support India or RAW, then I wouldn't be talking against them all the time, would I? Refer to my previous posts, and you will see how I detest both RAW and ISI agents who use my country, our country, as a proxy war field. My problem is that the Munshi cabal keep drumming up fears about RAW, while conveniently covering up numerous covert operations by ISI. Perhaps you should grow a pro-Bangladeshi bent and lecture the Munshi cabal to start giving credible facts. Perhaps then, you can come back with your self-righteousness and ask me or anyone not to be "blind".

 

I am, and have always been pro-Bangladesh. Are you?

 

Cyrus

---

From: M M R <mole_engineer@ yahoo.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 10:25:12 AM
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Was our military short-staffed during the BDR Mutiny and if so why?

TO Cyrus,   Your voice is same what India says (Pakistan is doing proxy war from Bangladesh). I just want to say, dont be blind. ISI is trying to prove that Independence of Bangladesh from Pakistan was wrong. But RAW is really doing very bad for Bangladesh. Raw is trying to show Bangladesh a Terrorist country, failed country, and also trying to block all of developments.   You saw that ISI giving arms and money to ULFA and others, why haven't looked on that RAW is providing moral, financial, stratigical, political, and millitary support to Bongosena, Shantibahini, and so other terrorist groups who are active inside and outside Bangladesh.   Finally. ISI and RAW both are trying to emolish our honor and pride.   Be a Pro-Bangladeshi, not Pro-Indian and Pro-Pakistani.   Mahmud  --- On Thu, 5/21/09, Cyrus <thoughtocrat@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: Cyrus <thoughtocrat@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Was our military short-staffed during the BDR Mutiny and if so why? To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 11:00 AM Do you have any access to the intelligence community in Bangladesh? or Indian or Pakistani intelligence community with credible intelligence reports? Do you have any credible evidence to suggest that RAW staged the BDR massacre and that RAW undermines Islam and Bangladesh? Or did you just pull that out of your pseudo-intellectual Paki defense forum? Fortunately, I do have access to the Bangladeshi intelligence community, and I know how ridiculous your doctrine and your comments are. Unfortunately, I cannot disclose my sources and can only write here after filtering information.   There is a difference between conspiracy theory and factual analysis. I doubt that you understand the difference. RAW may be involved in insurgency, but so is ISI who fights a proxy war against India, supplying weapons and rations to Indian insurgents from ULFA and Nagaland militants. I guess you missed out on that intelligence report or an "intelligent analysis", huh? It's fun to fight against a big bad wolf that is India, like the Americans did against the USSR. This kind of nonsense has rallied up young Muslim men in your fatherland, Pakistan, and in Bangladesh as if their faith and freedom are in great jeopardy. More have died to fight the big bad wolf, and the "intellectuals" like yourself have sat there and propagated their "doctrines". Personally, I find no difference between you guys and the reactionary BJP "intellectuals" like Bal Thackery, Advani, et. al.   Neoconservative thinking, protectionist views, and conspiracy theories have no place in this century of information. Bengali or Bangladeshi Nationalism is a failed idea, and looks like your version of Islamic Nationalism is on the rise. Hopefully, people will see through the garbage and judge for themselves.   Good luck fighting the big bad wolf.   Cyrus From: M.B.I. Munshi <MBIMunshi@gmail. com> To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:12:26 AM Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Was our military short-staffed during the BDR Mutiny and if so why? That is absolutely incorrect. For the last six years I have been drawing attention to the fact that these so called Islamist terrorists were able to obtain entry into India and procure military grade weapons and explosives for use here. There is every likelihood that these groups are creations of RAW to undermine Islam and Bangladesh. This is not at all absurd since we know that RAW will sink to any depths to achieve their objectives. The BDR mutiny and the recent Lahore attacks were all RAW operations. The army report indicated that Torab Ali (a DD at BDR) had been making mobile calls outside the country. This was almost certainly to India. Please read my book The India Doctrine (1947-2007) which relies on books, research and strategy papers, intelligence reports and articles to substantiate the claims on Indian subversive tactics. The book is available at The Bookworm for anyone who is interested. --- In alochona@yahoogroup s.com, "musasarkar" <m_musa92870@ ...> wrote: > > > Mr. Wohid, > > What I wanted to say is what MBI Munshi writes now, later turns out to > be untrue. May Allah give you enough intelligence to understand that.

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Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Was our military short-staffed during the BDR Mutiny and if so why?

Dear Mahbub:

 

It is sad that like rest of your group, you accuse anyone who picks rationality and actual facts as Indian stooges. Unlike Munshi et.al. I don't take my talking points from either India or Pakistan, or BNP or BAL. If I were so inclined to support India or RAW, then I wouldn't be talking against them all the time, would I? Refer to my previous posts, and you will see how I detest both RAW and ISI agents who use my country, our country, as a proxy war field. My problem is that the Munshi cabal keep drumming up fears about RAW, while conveniently covering up numerous covert operations by ISI. Perhaps you should grow a pro-Bangladeshi bent and lecture the Munshi cabal to start giving credible facts. Perhaps then, you can come back with your self-righteousness and ask me or anyone not to be "blind".

 

I am, and have always been pro-Bangladesh. Are you?

 

Cyrus

---

From: M M R <mole_engineer@yahoo.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 10:25:12 AM
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Was our military short-staffed during the BDR Mutiny and if so why?

TO Cyrus,   Your voice is same what India says (Pakistan is doing proxy war from Bangladesh). I just want to say, dont be blind. ISI is trying to prove that Independence of Bangladesh from Pakistan was wrong. But RAW is really doing very bad for Bangladesh. Raw is trying to show Bangladesh a Terrorist country, failed country, and also trying to block all of developments.   You saw that ISI giving arms and money to ULFA and others, why haven't looked on that RAW is providing moral, financial, stratigical, political, and millitary support to Bongosena, Shantibahini, and so other terrorist groups who are active inside and outside Bangladesh.   Finally. ISI and RAW both are trying to emolish our honor and pride.   Be a Pro-Bangladeshi, not Pro-Indian and Pro-Pakistani.   Mahmud  --- On Thu, 5/21/09, Cyrus <thoughtocrat@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: Cyrus <thoughtocrat@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Was our military short-staffed during the BDR Mutiny and if so why? To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 11:00 AM Do you have any access to the intelligence community in Bangladesh? or Indian or Pakistani intelligence community with credible intelligence reports? Do you have any credible evidence to suggest that RAW staged the BDR massacre and that RAW undermines Islam and Bangladesh? Or did you just pull that out of your pseudo-intellectual Paki defense forum? Fortunately, I do have access to the Bangladeshi intelligence community, and I know how ridiculous your doctrine and your comments are. Unfortunately, I cannot disclose my sources and can only write here after filtering information.   There is a difference between conspiracy theory and factual analysis. I doubt that you understand the difference. RAW may be involved in insurgency, but so is ISI who fights a proxy war against India, supplying weapons and rations to Indian insurgents from ULFA and Nagaland militants. I guess you missed out on that intelligence report or an "intelligent analysis", huh? It's fun to fight against a big bad wolf that is India, like the Americans did against the USSR. This kind of nonsense has rallied up young Muslim men in your fatherland, Pakistan, and in Bangladesh as if their faith and freedom are in great jeopardy. More have died to fight the big bad wolf, and the "intellectuals" like yourself have sat there and propagated their "doctrines". Personally, I find no difference between you guys and the reactionary BJP "intellectuals" like Bal Thackery, Advani, et. al.   Neoconservative thinking, protectionist views, and conspiracy theories have no place in this century of information. Bengali or Bangladeshi Nationalism is a failed idea, and looks like your version of Islamic Nationalism is on the rise. Hopefully, people will see through the garbage and judge for themselves.   Good luck fighting the big bad wolf.   Cyrus From: M.B.I. Munshi <MBIMunshi@gmail. com> To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:12:26 AM Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Was our military short-staffed during the BDR Mutiny and if so why? That is absolutely incorrect. For the last six years I have been drawing attention to the fact that these so called Islamist terrorists were able to obtain entry into India and procure military grade weapons and explosives for use here. There is every likelihood that these groups are creations of RAW to undermine Islam and Bangladesh. This is not at all absurd since we know that RAW will sink to any depths to achieve their objectives. The BDR mutiny and the recent Lahore attacks were all RAW operations. The army report indicated that Torab Ali (a DD at BDR) had been making mobile calls outside the country. This was almost certainly to India. Please read my book The India Doctrine (1947-2007) which relies on books, research and strategy papers, intelligence reports and articles to substantiate the claims on Indian subversive tactics. The book is available at The Bookworm for anyone who is interested. --- In alochona@yahoogroup s.com, "musasarkar" <m_musa92870@ ...> wrote: > > > Mr. Wohid, > > What I wanted to say is what MBI Munshi writes now, later turns out to > be untrue. May Allah give you enough intelligence to understand that.

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[ALOCHONA] News of HOPE! --be fully prepared to face noisy, nasty resistance

The concept of equality, fairness and freedom of religion doesn't befit the Bangladeshi version of ultra-secularism, one of the strongest proofs being the secularist-cults opposition of "Bismillah" in the constitution. The ugliest facade of the Bangladeshi version of ultra-secularism is to vehemently oppose Islam that is the faith of the majority. When they project the issue of equality, fairness and freedom of religion in support of their opposition to Islam, it's simply defrauding the people in which they are so cunning. See how they defrauded the nation by all those charming and exciting manifesto before the last election compared to the character they are exposing now. Our constitution, as it is now, safeguards all fundamental rights including equality, fairness and freedom of religion. Bismllah and Islam as the state religion in the constitution do not derogate the less from any fundamental rights of the citizens than underpinning them. Can the secularist-cults produce a single and simple extra benefit that they can add to the service of the fundamental rights by removing Bismillah and Islam from the constitution? Why does the removal of Bismillah and Islam from the constitution become vitally important? Does it serve the people of Bangladesh at all or just serves the political interests of the ultra-secularist cults???

---

From: Cyrus <thoughtocrat@yahoo.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 22 May, 2009 7:36:41 PM
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] News of HOPE! --be fully prepared to face noisy, nasty resistance

Dear Alochok Rahman:

 

I am afraid that the debate over "Bismillah" is mostly an academic one, no matter how you slice it. After all, the constitution of any country is a set of written principles that the country must follow. We can choose not to respect it and device our own language, which in our case, is the precise problem. The spiritual nature of our people is not in question here, and by removing traces of any religion, our relationship to god will not be affected in any shape or form. However, when you state that you don't see the need to remove state sponsorship of a particular religion from the constitution, I strongly disagree. We are not an Islamic Republic, although many would love to see that happen. We follow and respect all sorts of religions and practices in Bangladesh, and have been doing so for the last three thousand years. To impose Islam as the dominant voice of the people in the constitution is to draw the line between "equality" and "fairness" principles of which you seem to be a "fan".

 

Your assertion that in the U.S., the state motto "In God we trust" is merely token symbolism is unfortunately historically inaccurate. The motto was added by the Congress in about 1864, immediately after the civil war, to appease the strong protestant Christian sentiments of the civil war soldiers from both sides. During the civil war, one of the accusations that the South drummed up against the Union is that they are trying to establish a secular and "godless" country, and many southern soldiers actually joined the fight because they thought they were fighting against the godless Union. (Has strange resemblance to our own struggle for independence, doesn't it?) In God we trust was later added as a motto of the new union, and the controversy over this line hasn't stopped since then. Several lawsuits filed against the U.S., most notably by Michael Newdow, comes to mind, which he lost at the Supreme Court.

 

The exclusion of a state sponsored religion is not about bringing "positive changes" in peoples lives. It is about setting the tone for governance of a nation, based on the principles of equality, justice, and fairness. It is about making the government represent the diversity of color, creed, race, religion, sexual orientation in our country. The very phrase, "Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim" is an Arabic phrase, and the last time we checked, we are not an Arab nation. You are right. It is exactly like imposing another language on us, and "Arabize" whatever belief we hold or have held for thousands of years.

 

Proponents of including "Bismillah" has more loyalty towards the Saudis than their own countrymen, and claim that removing Bismillah from the constitution is equivalent to converting the country into "Hinduism" and an assault on our faith. They forget, quite conveniently and for obvious financial reasons that Islam didn't come to our country as a gift. Islam came to Bangladesh on horseback with swords and the might of the Ottoman Empire. If "Bismillah" is a token symbolism than the removal of it should not in any shape affect our faith in Allah, should it? Or is it that we are too engrossed in symbolism and rituals that we cannot and will not understand the meaning of Islam and practice our own faith?

 

Another common misconception that most people have, and I've been fighting it for as long as I can remember, is that "secularism" is about "removing god". That definition or characterization is categorically wrong and has its foundation in the pseudo-intellectual , neoconservative, Islamic fundamentalist propaganda book. Secularism is not about removing god from anything! It is about removing the influence or dominance of one particular religion or faith from state governance. Secularism, at its core, is about equal opportunity for all where everyone is free to worship their own god.

 

A constitution is the representation of peoples' strong held principles, by which they wish to govern themselves. It is not, and should not be, representative of the majority or the minority. In Iraq, Saddam Hossain ruled the country by Sunni principles and massacred Shiites and Kurds, ruled over them with an iron fist, and persecuted Iraqi Jews. In Iran, the Supreme Council and Khomeini dictated how the Islamic Republic should be governed under Shia principles and exiled the Sunni leaders, Iranian Jews and Christians.

 

In Bangladesh (or pre-independence Bangladesh), we had vibrant communities of Armenian Christians and Jews, Greek Orthodox, Tajik and Uzbek Muslims, Afghans, Thai Buddhists, Hindus, Catholics and Protestants, and of course, Shia and Sunni Muslims. Most of the fringe groups are long gone as East Bengal became East Pakistan and then eventually Bangladesh. But the secular foundation and tolerant culture of our country still exists. It is in that spirit of secularism, we need to go back to our fundamental governing principles; the state shall not impose, sanction, influence, sponsor or dictate the religion of any inhabitants, and that the governance of the nation would rely on the established laws of the land only!

 

Cheers,

Cyrus

---

From: "qrahman@netscape. net" <qrahman@netscape. net>
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 2:09:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] News of HOPE! --be fully prepared to face noisy, nasty resistance

I am afraid we are looking at this as an academic " debate" only.
We need to go deeper than that. There are reasons why major political
parties left it alone. Despite our history of politicians abusing Islam
to advance their personal interest, majority of our population are
spiritual in nature and do not see the need to remove all token
presense of God in our lives. Islam is seen as an idea that promotes
good things in our communities.

For the same reason the US left "In God we trust" on dollar bills.
Those who are familier with US constitution know that it is Not a
Christian country. It has clear direction to seperate Church and State.
I am still flexible if I find any proof that removing those word will
bring positive changes to our country. I am yet to see it.
Islam is a pragmatic faith if understood properly. Prophet
Muhammad(PBUH) done similar thing to secure peace and end continuous
wars with pact of Hudaibeah.
We are not French and imposing a foreign value (strict secularism by
removing God) will end up bringing results and reactions similar to
1952 when we were forced to embrace a foreign language.
I am a fan of equal treatment and justice for all. Since BD laws are
not religious and secular in nature it is(Removing Bismillah) not
important for my country.
-qar

-----Original Message-----
From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@ hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, 20 May 2009 02:53:11 -0400
Subject:
[ALOCHONA] News of HOPE! --be fully prepared to face noisy,
nasty resistance

 

From: farida_majid@ hotmail.com
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] News of HOPE! --be fully prepared to face
noisy, nasty resistance
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:38:11 -0400

   Sentimentalization of "bismillah" on the Constitution has begun just
as I aprehended.  Anyone with eyes to read and understand plain
English would not have asked the following question: Why "Bismillah" is
a problem for you?

     Please, can I invite all, yes, ALL of us to put a little effort
and improve our understanding of this important issue?
 
      No single political party -- Awami League, BNP, or whatever --
can or  should keep   "bismillah" in the Constitution or expel it. By
the same token, its inclusion in the constitution by a Military
Dictator's whim was illegal. 
 
      However, "bismillah" is staying for the moment, as the Law
Minister indicated, not because of the AL goodness of the heart. The
act of including "bismillah" was done out side the legal realm covered
by the Fifth Amendment,1979. The present action is to activate (dismiss
the stay order) the High Court Judgment on 29th August, 2005 -- a
response to the Writ Petition # 6016/2000, Italian Marble Co. - Moon
Cinema Ha
ll.
 
    This Judgment called for a repeal of Fifth Amendment that was
passed under the clout of Martial Law in 1979 and all 'illegal
acts' that subsequently  validated the usurpation of power.  The Fifth
Amendment, 1979, not only changed "the basic structure as well as the
character of the Constitution in its totality, but rather, uprooted the
Constitution; it was no amendment in the eye of law, but destruction of
the Constitution altogether, as such ultra vires to the Constitution. "
 
            The above is a direct quote from the Judgment issued on the
Moon Cinema Hall case in 2005 by the bench consisting of Mr. Justice
ABM Khairul Haque and Mr. Justice ATM Fazle Kabir.
            
              Anyone can check the authenticity of the quote. It was
one of the most masterful Judgments isued by the judiciary in the short
history of Bangladesh.
 
                   Farida Majid
         
  

To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
From: qrahman@netscape. net
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 01:44:43 -0400
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] News of HOPE! --be fully prepared to face
noisy, nasty resistance

Ms Majid,
Why "Bismillah" is a problem for you?=0
D
FYI, Awami League is keeping it.
Now I'll share some good news. Jamaat took your idea and removed it
from their party constitution.
What's next?
Let me give you some food for thought. The word "Awami" came from Urdu.
Let me see how you can "Update" it.
Apparently Jamaat is more "Flexible" about these "Minor" issues as long
it takes them to haven AKA "Power".
My bet is Jamaat will give in first.

Good luck.
-qar

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