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Saturday, September 1, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen



SD: "Do I need to say more?"
 

Even if you say more – bleeding-heart liberals, like the writer of this article, and many others in this forum, will not get it. You may be late to point this out; many, in this forum, may have already started a fan-club for the writer. I am glad you did not apply for a membership in that club yet.

 

Jiten Roy


--- On Sat, 9/1/12, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, September 1, 2012, 10:07 PM

 
"I agree with Ms. Dev Sen. Journalists and other intellectuals of her quality are the people who have made India a better country than many others in the world."

It sounds really great that India got such God like journalists! I bet Pakistanis know this little secret and they should send more heroes like Kassab to torment the country!
I am not sure the country is really better than many others in the world? Not sure which way? If Indian liberals can really go that far, I would not be surprised to see them supporting some pure Islamic independent enclaves within the Indian territory? And, why not? That would be the real test for many of these blue eyed liberals. Needless to say that many of these liberals originate from East Bengal by mass migration of their parents and grand parents from East Bengal. Do I need to say more?
-SD  

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen

 
I agree with Ms. Dev Sen. Journalists and other intellectuals of her quality are the people who have made India a better country than many others in the world.
 
Assuming the evidences against Kodnani's crimes are as foolproof, I would go further; Kodnani is probably guiltier than Kasab. Kasab was brainwashed to be a terrorist, and he did not hide that; whereas Kodnani was a people's representative, entrusted with the welfare of all of her constituency.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
================================================ 

From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen

 
It is a great article by Amartya Sen and Nabanita Dev Sen's daughter. Sangh Parivar hates Amartya Sen. He has discussed Babri demolition and Gujarat riots in his book Argumentative Indian. 

Sent from my iPhone
 
===========================================
.....................................................................

-----Original message-----
From: Sukla Sen <sukla.sen@gmail.com>

 Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen
 http://www.asianage.com/columnists/kodnani-no-less-guilty-kasab-382 

Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab

Sep 01, 2012



Kodnani helped kill 35 kids, 32 women and 30 men. Almost as a reward, Mr Modi made her state minister for women & child development.
 
Our justice system presented us with two enormously important judgments on Wednesday, August 29. Both were about mass murder. Both were about massacres that had horrified the nation. Both had a sectarian angle. Both verdicts proclaimed that there was a larger conspiracy and meticulous planning behind the mass murders. Both found the accused guilty of pre-meditated mass murder.
But we responded to these two verdicts very differently. Which once again gives away our shameful prejudices, mindless priorities and silent fears.
The Supreme Court verdict on Ajmal Kasab upheld his death penalty awarded by the Bombay high court for the Mumbai terror attacks on November 26, 2008. And the verdict of a special court convicted 32, including two powerful political figures, for the Naroda Patiya massacre in Gujarat in 2002. Sentencing is awaited as I write this. The death sentence is a possibility, but life imprisonment is more likely. Especially given the VIPs convicted, and the fact that as far as I remember no one has got the death sentence for the massacre of Muslims in the post-Godhra violence till now. The only ones sentenced to death for the 2002 violence were 11 Muslims convicted of the Godhra train burning.
The SC's verdict on Ajmal Kasab, a terrorist responsible for the "26/11" attack on Mumbai, was a foregone conclusion. Kasab was a self-confessed Pakistani terrorist, the only one captured alive of the 10 attackers who killed 166 in Mumbai, and his chance of escaping the death sentence was practically non-existent. But the 32 Indian citizens of Gujarat, convicted of murder and criminal conspiracy in the Naroda Patiya massacre that left 97 dead in 2002, had every chance of getting away with murder, like thousands of their fellow killers. And thus the conviction — especially of sitting MLA, former minister and Narendra Modi's close aide Maya Kodnani and Bajrang Dal leader Babu Bajrangi — made us sit up. Such verdicts were not for powerful folk. Whatever happened to our carefully nurtured political culture of impunity?
So our belligerent baying for Kasab's blood is in stark contrast to our cautious, measured and often defensive response to the conviction of Kodnani and Bajrangi, along with 30 others. Even the media shows double standards in the way it humanises the ruthless killers who gleefully butchered 97 in Naroda Patiya, while demonising Kasab, who with his partner, shot dead 58 at Mumbai's Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST).
We are offered heart-wrenching images of weeping mothers, wives and sisters of the killers of Naroda Patiya. Killers who blocked escape routes and hacked to death little children and women, burnt babies alive, set fire to helpless old people and terrified men, women and children, raped and tortured their victims before burning them alive. Killers who slashed open the belly of pregnant women to carve out the womb and kill the foetus before the mother. Ten years later, when gruesome details of their brutality have faded, must we share the sorrow of these killers' families hurt by justice? And if we are to look at the human face of inhuman killers, why don't we witness the sorrow of Kasab's mother, too? Dear God, no! That would be treason!
Hang Kasab publicly, demanded some of our political leaders, who would clearly prefer lynching to our staid process of justice. The Shiv Sena demanded that he be hanged at CST. "Does the government have the guts to carry out the sentence?" challenged Uddhav Thackeray.
In fact, our netas are falling over each other to insist on Kasab's hanging right here, right now. It seems to be the only way to assert their patriotism. So BJP spokesperson Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi roars: "Kasab should be hanged without delay! Enough of biryani for him!" We even grudge him the basic jail food. And we hate the fact that Kasab has a right to appeal for mercy. Even a former solicitor-general of India, Harish Salve, raged that Kasab's mercy plea, if there is one, should not be entertained at all by the government. And the Shiv Sena plans to seek amendments to Article 72 of the Constitution so that only Indians can seek clemency. "Are our laws meant for Indians or Pakistani nationals?" shouts Mr Thackeray.
So go get the hangman. The last hangman in the region, the old, infirm and very retired Arjun Jadhav, has agreed to do the honours. Not necessary, says Swati Sathe, a top cop in Maharashtra and former jailer of Arthur Road prison which holds Kasab. We could do it. Cops could legitimately hang him. "I would not have flinched if I was ordered to hang Kasab," says she.
In contrast, those screaming loudest for Kasab's blood practically dismiss the Naroda Patiya verdict as irrelevant. The BJP talks of "progress" and Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi's "good governance", and brushes aside lesser "issues like this conviction". Clearly, mass murders and conspiracy to massacre by an outsider is unforgivable, deserving of the highest punishment. But mass murders and conspiracy to massacre by our own leaders and elected representatives is not. Why is butchering those you are supposed to protect using the state machinery and public money and then using the state machinery to shield oneself less of a crime than murdering unknown people in a no-holds barred suicide attack?
Let's look at Kodnani. This BJP MLA is a gynaecologist, and has been the trusted representative of Naroda for years. The doctor knew her locality well, and helped kill 35 children, 32 women and 30 men by supplying the rioters with information, access, weapons and fuel. Almost as a reward, she was made state minister for women and child development by Mr Modi.
I am not in favour of capital punishment. But I believe we must reduce our double standards in justice delivery. The SC says it has no option but to hang Kasab because he was part of a conspiracy to wage war against India and fuel communal tension. We leap in joy. But neither we nor the courts talk of waging war against the very idea of India, and fuelling communal tension by ruthless sectarian massacres by trusted state agents. That's a war that can destroy India from within. And for ever. It is far more dangerous than sporadic terrorist attacks by outsiders.
The writer is editor of The Little Magazine. She can be contacted at: sen@littlemag.com

--
Peace Is Doable

===================================================







__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

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****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen




 

Well, Kodnani may have been brainwashed also. I think she was; nobody can kill innocent people without brainwashing.

In Kasab's case, it was a foreign invasion. Kasab's goal was to attack Indian interests. Nothing triggered Kasab's anger towards the Hotel guests, most of who were foreigners. His anger was against India and her interests.  

Kodnani's case, on the other hand, is a communal riot, which started in retaliation of Godhra-train burning. I see no comparison with Kasab.

I do not know why author of this article is trying to make such a comparison.

It is true that justice came after an awfully long time (10 years). That's because – the case is politically charged. I am glad that it came at all. In any other countries, the case would not have been filed. In this respect, my hat is off to the Indian Judicial as well as political system.

 
Jiten Roy

--- On Sat, 9/1/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, September 1, 2012, 6:30 PM

 
I agree with Ms. Dev Sen. Journalists and other intellectuals of her quality are the people who have made India a better country than many others in the world.
 
Assuming the evidences against Kodnani's crimes are as foolproof, I would go further; Kodnani is probably guiltier than Kasab. Kasab was brainwashed to be a terrorist, and he did not hide that; whereas Kodnani was a people's representative, entrusted with the welfare of all of her constituency.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
================================================ 

From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen

 
It is a great article by Amartya Sen and Nabanita Dev Sen's daughter. Sangh Parivar hates Amartya Sen. He has discussed Babri demolition and Gujarat riots in his book Argumentative Indian. 

Sent from my iPhone
 
===========================================
.....................................................................

-----Original message-----
From: Sukla Sen <sukla.sen@gmail.com>

 Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen
 http://www.asianage.com/columnists/kodnani-no-less-guilty-kasab-382 

Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab

Sep 01, 2012



Kodnani helped kill 35 kids, 32 women and 30 men. Almost as a reward, Mr Modi made her state minister for women & child development.
 
Our justice system presented us with two enormously important judgments on Wednesday, August 29. Both were about mass murder. Both were about massacres that had horrified the nation. Both had a sectarian angle. Both verdicts proclaimed that there was a larger conspiracy and meticulous planning behind the mass murders. Both found the accused guilty of pre-meditated mass murder.
But we responded to these two verdicts very differently. Which once again gives away our shameful prejudices, mindless priorities and silent fears.
The Supreme Court verdict on Ajmal Kasab upheld his death penalty awarded by the Bombay high court for the Mumbai terror attacks on November 26, 2008. And the verdict of a special court convicted 32, including two powerful political figures, for the Naroda Patiya massacre in Gujarat in 2002. Sentencing is awaited as I write this. The death sentence is a possibility, but life imprisonment is more likely. Especially given the VIPs convicted, and the fact that as far as I remember no one has got the death sentence for the massacre of Muslims in the post-Godhra violence till now. The only ones sentenced to death for the 2002 violence were 11 Muslims convicted of the Godhra train burning.
The SC's verdict on Ajmal Kasab, a terrorist responsible for the "26/11" attack on Mumbai, was a foregone conclusion. Kasab was a self-confessed Pakistani terrorist, the only one captured alive of the 10 attackers who killed 166 in Mumbai, and his chance of escaping the death sentence was practically non-existent. But the 32 Indian citizens of Gujarat, convicted of murder and criminal conspiracy in the Naroda Patiya massacre that left 97 dead in 2002, had every chance of getting away with murder, like thousands of their fellow killers. And thus the conviction — especially of sitting MLA, former minister and Narendra Modi's close aide Maya Kodnani and Bajrang Dal leader Babu Bajrangi — made us sit up. Such verdicts were not for powerful folk. Whatever happened to our carefully nurtured political culture of impunity?
So our belligerent baying for Kasab's blood is in stark contrast to our cautious, measured and often defensive response to the conviction of Kodnani and Bajrangi, along with 30 others. Even the media shows double standards in the way it humanises the ruthless killers who gleefully butchered 97 in Naroda Patiya, while demonising Kasab, who with his partner, shot dead 58 at Mumbai's Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST).
We are offered heart-wrenching images of weeping mothers, wives and sisters of the killers of Naroda Patiya. Killers who blocked escape routes and hacked to death little children and women, burnt babies alive, set fire to helpless old people and terrified men, women and children, raped and tortured their victims before burning them alive. Killers who slashed open the belly of pregnant women to carve out the womb and kill the foetus before the mother. Ten years later, when gruesome details of their brutality have faded, must we share the sorrow of these killers' families hurt by justice? And if we are to look at the human face of inhuman killers, why don't we witness the sorrow of Kasab's mother, too? Dear God, no! That would be treason!
Hang Kasab publicly, demanded some of our political leaders, who would clearly prefer lynching to our staid process of justice. The Shiv Sena demanded that he be hanged at CST. "Does the government have the guts to carry out the sentence?" challenged Uddhav Thackeray.
In fact, our netas are falling over each other to insist on Kasab's hanging right here, right now. It seems to be the only way to assert their patriotism. So BJP spokesperson Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi roars: "Kasab should be hanged without delay! Enough of biryani for him!" We even grudge him the basic jail food. And we hate the fact that Kasab has a right to appeal for mercy. Even a former solicitor-general of India, Harish Salve, raged that Kasab's mercy plea, if there is one, should not be entertained at all by the government. And the Shiv Sena plans to seek amendments to Article 72 of the Constitution so that only Indians can seek clemency. "Are our laws meant for Indians or Pakistani nationals?" shouts Mr Thackeray.
So go get the hangman. The last hangman in the region, the old, infirm and very retired Arjun Jadhav, has agreed to do the honours. Not necessary, says Swati Sathe, a top cop in Maharashtra and former jailer of Arthur Road prison which holds Kasab. We could do it. Cops could legitimately hang him. "I would not have flinched if I was ordered to hang Kasab," says she.
In contrast, those screaming loudest for Kasab's blood practically dismiss the Naroda Patiya verdict as irrelevant. The BJP talks of "progress" and Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi's "good governance", and brushes aside lesser "issues like this conviction". Clearly, mass murders and conspiracy to massacre by an outsider is unforgivable, deserving of the highest punishment. But mass murders and conspiracy to massacre by our own leaders and elected representatives is not. Why is butchering those you are supposed to protect using the state machinery and public money and then using the state machinery to shield oneself less of a crime than murdering unknown people in a no-holds barred suicide attack?
Let's look at Kodnani. This BJP MLA is a gynaecologist, and has been the trusted representative of Naroda for years. The doctor knew her locality well, and helped kill 35 children, 32 women and 30 men by supplying the rioters with information, access, weapons and fuel. Almost as a reward, she was made state minister for women and child development by Mr Modi.
I am not in favour of capital punishment. But I believe we must reduce our double standards in justice delivery. The SC says it has no option but to hang Kasab because he was part of a conspiracy to wage war against India and fuel communal tension. We leap in joy. But neither we nor the courts talk of waging war against the very idea of India, and fuelling communal tension by ruthless sectarian massacres by trusted state agents. That's a war that can destroy India from within. And for ever. It is far more dangerous than sporadic terrorist attacks by outsiders.
The writer is editor of The Little Magazine. She can be contacted at: sen@littlemag.com

--
Peace Is Doable

===================================================





__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
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Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen



I see some Stockholm syndrome affection for brother, Kassab. What about our dear Osama? What crime did he commit? Why not go after Bush and Blair gang?
-SD

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen

 
A lot more money was spent, about fifty crores of rupees, on the security of Kasab than on the salary of Kodnani.  To carry out the death sentence of the former, a sum of only fifty rupees has been sanctioned.  If the Sikhs could carry out the death sentence of people who raided the Golden temple, why can't the Muslims do the same for the Gujrat riot criminals?

On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
I agree with Ms. Dev Sen. Journalists and other intellectuals of her quality are the people who have made India a better country than many others in the world.
 
Assuming the evidences against Kodnani's crimes are as foolproof, I would go further; Kodnani is probably guiltier than Kasab. Kasab was brainwashed to be a terrorist, and he did not hide that; whereas Kodnani was a people's representative, entrusted with the welfare of all of her constituency.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
================================================ 

From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen

 
It is a great article by Amartya Sen and Nabanita Dev Sen's daughter. Sangh Parivar hates Amartya Sen. He has discussed Babri demolition and Gujarat riots in his book Argumentative Indian. 

Sent from my iPhone
 
===========================================
.....................................................................

-----Original message-----
From: Sukla Sen <sukla.sen@gmail.com>

 Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen
 http://www.asianage.com/columnists/kodnani-no-less-guilty-kasab-382 

Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab

Sep 01, 2012



Kodnani helped kill 35 kids, 32 women and 30 men. Almost as a reward, Mr Modi made her state minister for women & child development.
 
Our justice system presented us with two enormously important judgments on Wednesday, August 29. Both were about mass murder. Both were about massacres that had horrified the nation. Both had a sectarian angle. Both verdicts proclaimed that there was a larger conspiracy and meticulous planning behind the mass murders. Both found the accused guilty of pre-meditated mass murder.
But we responded to these two verdicts very differently. Which once again gives away our shameful prejudices, mindless priorities and silent fears.
The Supreme Court verdict on Ajmal Kasab upheld his death penalty awarded by the Bombay high court for the Mumbai terror attacks on November 26, 2008. And the verdict of a special court convicted 32, including two powerful political figures, for the Naroda Patiya massacre in Gujarat in 2002. Sentencing is awaited as I write this. The death sentence is a possibility, but life imprisonment is more likely. Especially given the VIPs convicted, and the fact that as far as I remember no one has got the death sentence for the massacre of Muslims in the post-Godhra violence till now. The only ones sentenced to death for the 2002 violence were 11 Muslims convicted of the Godhra train burning.
The SC's verdict on Ajmal Kasab, a terrorist responsible for the "26/11" attack on Mumbai, was a foregone conclusion. Kasab was a self-confessed Pakistani terrorist, the only one captured alive of the 10 attackers who killed 166 in Mumbai, and his chance of escaping the death sentence was practically non-existent. But the 32 Indian citizens of Gujarat, convicted of murder and criminal conspiracy in the Naroda Patiya massacre that left 97 dead in 2002, had every chance of getting away with murder, like thousands of their fellow killers. And thus the conviction — especially of sitting MLA, former minister and Narendra Modi's close aide Maya Kodnani and Bajrang Dal leader Babu Bajrangi — made us sit up. Such verdicts were not for powerful folk. Whatever happened to our carefully nurtured political culture of impunity?
So our belligerent baying for Kasab's blood is in stark contrast to our cautious, measured and often defensive response to the conviction of Kodnani and Bajrangi, along with 30 others. Even the media shows double standards in the way it humanises the ruthless killers who gleefully butchered 97 in Naroda Patiya, while demonising Kasab, who with his partner, shot dead 58 at Mumbai's Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST).
We are offered heart-wrenching images of weeping mothers, wives and sisters of the killers of Naroda Patiya. Killers who blocked escape routes and hacked to death little children and women, burnt babies alive, set fire to helpless old people and terrified men, women and children, raped and tortured their victims before burning them alive. Killers who slashed open the belly of pregnant women to carve out the womb and kill the foetus before the mother. Ten years later, when gruesome details of their brutality have faded, must we share the sorrow of these killers' families hurt by justice? And if we are to look at the human face of inhuman killers, why don't we witness the sorrow of Kasab's mother, too? Dear God, no! That would be treason!
Hang Kasab publicly, demanded some of our political leaders, who would clearly prefer lynching to our staid process of justice. The Shiv Sena demanded that he be hanged at CST. "Does the government have the guts to carry out the sentence?" challenged Uddhav Thackeray.
In fact, our netas are falling over each other to insist on Kasab's hanging right here, right now. It seems to be the only way to assert their patriotism. So BJP spokesperson Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi roars: "Kasab should be hanged without delay! Enough of biryani for him!" We even grudge him the basic jail food. And we hate the fact that Kasab has a right to appeal for mercy. Even a former solicitor-general of India, Harish Salve, raged that Kasab's mercy plea, if there is one, should not be entertained at all by the government. And the Shiv Sena plans to seek amendments to Article 72 of the Constitution so that only Indians can seek clemency. "Are our laws meant for Indians or Pakistani nationals?" shouts Mr Thackeray.
So go get the hangman. The last hangman in the region, the old, infirm and very retired Arjun Jadhav, has agreed to do the honours. Not necessary, says Swati Sathe, a top cop in Maharashtra and former jailer of Arthur Road prison which holds Kasab. We could do it. Cops could legitimately hang him. "I would not have flinched if I was ordered to hang Kasab," says she.
In contrast, those screaming loudest for Kasab's blood practically dismiss the Naroda Patiya verdict as irrelevant. The BJP talks of "progress" and Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi's "good governance", and brushes aside lesser "issues like this conviction". Clearly, mass murders and conspiracy to massacre by an outsider is unforgivable, deserving of the highest punishment. But mass murders and conspiracy to massacre by our own leaders and elected representatives is not. Why is butchering those you are supposed to protect using the state machinery and public money and then using the state machinery to shield oneself less of a crime than murdering unknown people in a no-holds barred suicide attack?
Let's look at Kodnani. This BJP MLA is a gynaecologist, and has been the trusted representative of Naroda for years. The doctor knew her locality well, and helped kill 35 children, 32 women and 30 men by supplying the rioters with information, access, weapons and fuel. Almost as a reward, she was made state minister for women and child development by Mr Modi.
I am not in favour of capital punishment. But I believe we must reduce our double standards in justice delivery. The SC says it has no option but to hang Kasab because he was part of a conspiracy to wage war against India and fuel communal tension. We leap in joy. But neither we nor the courts talk of waging war against the very idea of India, and fuelling communal tension by ruthless sectarian massacres by trusted state agents. That's a war that can destroy India from within. And for ever. It is far more dangerous than sporadic terrorist attacks by outsiders.
The writer is editor of The Little Magazine. She can be contacted at: sen@littlemag.com

--
Peace Is Doable

===================================================








__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
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Re: [mukto-mona] Over 900 Pakistani Hindus eligible for Indian citizenship: report



Sir, I was only sarcastic. I hope you got my point!
-SD
 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Over 900 Pakistani Hindus eligible for Indian citizenship: report

 
"Islam may not be at fault"?  Really?  After the second Caliph Umar conquered Jerusalem, didn't he drive all non-Muslims out of the place?

On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
A Hindu woman weeps while seeing off a relative at the railway station. – Photo by INP
KARACHI: Officials in India's western state of Rajhasthan say around 919 Pakistani Hindus there have become eligible to apply for Indian citizenship, according to a report published by the Deccan Chronicle on Friday.
The administration from Rajhasthan's Jodhpur area says the Pakistanis have become eligible for Indian citizenship after spending seven years in the country. The people included in the list are those Pakistanis who had traveled to India prior to December 31, 2004 and refused return to their home country.
"As per our record, these 919 Pakistani Hindu nationals have completed seven years of their stay in India, the basic eligibility to apply for citizenship," the newspaper quoted  additional magistrate of Jodhpur, Rajendra Singh Rathore. "We have asked them to follow the procedure and if they fulfill all conditions, including fees, they will be granted citizenship."
The news follows media reports earlier this month of hundreds of Pakistani Hindu nationals from Sindh allegedly migrating to India on concerns of religious persecution and security fears. A committee was formed by President Asif Ali Zardari to look into the reports of mass migration. However, the committee rejected the claims that members of the minority community were leaving Sindh.
Hindu Singh Sodha, president of the Seemant Lok Sangthan, an organisation for Hindus from Pakistan settled in India, told the BBCUrdu that the list issued by the Indian government was "too short".
"According to our information, there are 7,000 Pakistani Hindus in Rajasthan, who came from Pakistan on valid travel papers and refused to return," he said.
In March 2005, Indian authorities had granted citizenship to over 8,000 Pakistani Hindu nationals settled in Rajasthan and Gujarat states. According to reports, the Hindus included those who had came to India on valid travel papers from Pakistan, citing ill-treatment on religious grounds as the reason for their refusal to go back.

Over 900 Pakistani Hindus eligible for Indian citizenship: report



My comment: As I stated earlier, the flow is totally one sided. While Bangladesh has been little better than Pakistan in regards to the welfare of their minorities, these unwanted people will be totally wiped out soon or later. Islam may not be at fault but people who practice it are the real problem  Nobody has time to wait until these Islamists would finally follow the Islam's teachings? Another thousand years?
-SD


 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS





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Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen



"I agree with Ms. Dev Sen. Journalists and other intellectuals of her quality are the people who have made India a better country than many others in the world."

It sounds really great that India got such God like journalists! I bet Pakistanis know this little secret and they should send more heroes like Kassab to torment the country!
I am not sure the country is really better than many others in the world? Not sure which way? If Indian liberals can really go that far, I would not be surprised to see them supporting some pure Islamic independent enclaves within the Indian territory? And, why not? That would be the real test for many of these blue eyed liberals. Needless to say that many of these liberals originate from East Bengal by mass migration of their parents and grand parents from East Bengal. Do I need to say more?
-SD  

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen

 
I agree with Ms. Dev Sen. Journalists and other intellectuals of her quality are the people who have made India a better country than many others in the world.
 
Assuming the evidences against Kodnani's crimes are as foolproof, I would go further; Kodnani is probably guiltier than Kasab. Kasab was brainwashed to be a terrorist, and he did not hide that; whereas Kodnani was a people's representative, entrusted with the welfare of all of her constituency.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
================================================ 

From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen

 
It is a great article by Amartya Sen and Nabanita Dev Sen's daughter. Sangh Parivar hates Amartya Sen. He has discussed Babri demolition and Gujarat riots in his book Argumentative Indian. 

Sent from my iPhone
 
===========================================
.....................................................................

-----Original message-----
From: Sukla Sen <sukla.sen@gmail.com>

 Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen
 http://www.asianage.com/columnists/kodnani-no-less-guilty-kasab-382 

Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab

Sep 01, 2012



Kodnani helped kill 35 kids, 32 women and 30 men. Almost as a reward, Mr Modi made her state minister for women & child development.
 
Our justice system presented us with two enormously important judgments on Wednesday, August 29. Both were about mass murder. Both were about massacres that had horrified the nation. Both had a sectarian angle. Both verdicts proclaimed that there was a larger conspiracy and meticulous planning behind the mass murders. Both found the accused guilty of pre-meditated mass murder.
But we responded to these two verdicts very differently. Which once again gives away our shameful prejudices, mindless priorities and silent fears.
The Supreme Court verdict on Ajmal Kasab upheld his death penalty awarded by the Bombay high court for the Mumbai terror attacks on November 26, 2008. And the verdict of a special court convicted 32, including two powerful political figures, for the Naroda Patiya massacre in Gujarat in 2002. Sentencing is awaited as I write this. The death sentence is a possibility, but life imprisonment is more likely. Especially given the VIPs convicted, and the fact that as far as I remember no one has got the death sentence for the massacre of Muslims in the post-Godhra violence till now. The only ones sentenced to death for the 2002 violence were 11 Muslims convicted of the Godhra train burning.
The SC's verdict on Ajmal Kasab, a terrorist responsible for the "26/11" attack on Mumbai, was a foregone conclusion. Kasab was a self-confessed Pakistani terrorist, the only one captured alive of the 10 attackers who killed 166 in Mumbai, and his chance of escaping the death sentence was practically non-existent. But the 32 Indian citizens of Gujarat, convicted of murder and criminal conspiracy in the Naroda Patiya massacre that left 97 dead in 2002, had every chance of getting away with murder, like thousands of their fellow killers. And thus the conviction — especially of sitting MLA, former minister and Narendra Modi's close aide Maya Kodnani and Bajrang Dal leader Babu Bajrangi — made us sit up. Such verdicts were not for powerful folk. Whatever happened to our carefully nurtured political culture of impunity?
So our belligerent baying for Kasab's blood is in stark contrast to our cautious, measured and often defensive response to the conviction of Kodnani and Bajrangi, along with 30 others. Even the media shows double standards in the way it humanises the ruthless killers who gleefully butchered 97 in Naroda Patiya, while demonising Kasab, who with his partner, shot dead 58 at Mumbai's Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST).
We are offered heart-wrenching images of weeping mothers, wives and sisters of the killers of Naroda Patiya. Killers who blocked escape routes and hacked to death little children and women, burnt babies alive, set fire to helpless old people and terrified men, women and children, raped and tortured their victims before burning them alive. Killers who slashed open the belly of pregnant women to carve out the womb and kill the foetus before the mother. Ten years later, when gruesome details of their brutality have faded, must we share the sorrow of these killers' families hurt by justice? And if we are to look at the human face of inhuman killers, why don't we witness the sorrow of Kasab's mother, too? Dear God, no! That would be treason!
Hang Kasab publicly, demanded some of our political leaders, who would clearly prefer lynching to our staid process of justice. The Shiv Sena demanded that he be hanged at CST. "Does the government have the guts to carry out the sentence?" challenged Uddhav Thackeray.
In fact, our netas are falling over each other to insist on Kasab's hanging right here, right now. It seems to be the only way to assert their patriotism. So BJP spokesperson Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi roars: "Kasab should be hanged without delay! Enough of biryani for him!" We even grudge him the basic jail food. And we hate the fact that Kasab has a right to appeal for mercy. Even a former solicitor-general of India, Harish Salve, raged that Kasab's mercy plea, if there is one, should not be entertained at all by the government. And the Shiv Sena plans to seek amendments to Article 72 of the Constitution so that only Indians can seek clemency. "Are our laws meant for Indians or Pakistani nationals?" shouts Mr Thackeray.
So go get the hangman. The last hangman in the region, the old, infirm and very retired Arjun Jadhav, has agreed to do the honours. Not necessary, says Swati Sathe, a top cop in Maharashtra and former jailer of Arthur Road prison which holds Kasab. We could do it. Cops could legitimately hang him. "I would not have flinched if I was ordered to hang Kasab," says she.
In contrast, those screaming loudest for Kasab's blood practically dismiss the Naroda Patiya verdict as irrelevant. The BJP talks of "progress" and Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi's "good governance", and brushes aside lesser "issues like this conviction". Clearly, mass murders and conspiracy to massacre by an outsider is unforgivable, deserving of the highest punishment. But mass murders and conspiracy to massacre by our own leaders and elected representatives is not. Why is butchering those you are supposed to protect using the state machinery and public money and then using the state machinery to shield oneself less of a crime than murdering unknown people in a no-holds barred suicide attack?
Let's look at Kodnani. This BJP MLA is a gynaecologist, and has been the trusted representative of Naroda for years. The doctor knew her locality well, and helped kill 35 children, 32 women and 30 men by supplying the rioters with information, access, weapons and fuel. Almost as a reward, she was made state minister for women and child development by Mr Modi.
I am not in favour of capital punishment. But I believe we must reduce our double standards in justice delivery. The SC says it has no option but to hang Kasab because he was part of a conspiracy to wage war against India and fuel communal tension. We leap in joy. But neither we nor the courts talk of waging war against the very idea of India, and fuelling communal tension by ruthless sectarian massacres by trusted state agents. That's a war that can destroy India from within. And for ever. It is far more dangerous than sporadic terrorist attacks by outsiders.
The writer is editor of The Little Magazine. She can be contacted at: sen@littlemag.com

--
Peace Is Doable

===================================================







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Re: [mukto-mona] Over 900 Pakistani Hindus eligible for Indian citizenship: report



"Islam may not be at fault"?  Really?  After the second Caliph Umar conquered Jerusalem, didn't he drive all non-Muslims out of the place?

On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

A Hindu woman weeps while seeing off a relative at the railway station. – Photo by INP
KARACHI: Officials in India's western state of Rajhasthan say around 919 Pakistani Hindus there have become eligible to apply for Indian citizenship, according to a report published by the Deccan Chronicle on Friday.
The administration from Rajhasthan's Jodhpur area says the Pakistanis have become eligible for Indian citizenship after spending seven years in the country. The people included in the list are those Pakistanis who had traveled to India prior to December 31, 2004 and refused return to their home country.
"As per our record, these 919 Pakistani Hindu nationals have completed seven years of their stay in India, the basic eligibility to apply for citizenship," the newspaper quoted  additional magistrate of Jodhpur, Rajendra Singh Rathore. "We have asked them to follow the procedure and if they fulfill all conditions, including fees, they will be granted citizenship."
The news follows media reports earlier this month of hundreds of Pakistani Hindu nationals from Sindh allegedly migrating to India on concerns of religious persecution and security fears. A committee was formed by President Asif Ali Zardari to look into the reports of mass migration. However, the committee rejected the claims that members of the minority community were leaving Sindh.
Hindu Singh Sodha, president of the Seemant Lok Sangthan, an organisation for Hindus from Pakistan settled in India, told the BBCUrdu that the list issued by the Indian government was "too short".
"According to our information, there are 7,000 Pakistani Hindus in Rajasthan, who came from Pakistan on valid travel papers and refused to return," he said.
In March 2005, Indian authorities had granted citizenship to over 8,000 Pakistani Hindu nationals settled in Rajasthan and Gujarat states. According to reports, the Hindus included those who had came to India on valid travel papers from Pakistan, citing ill-treatment on religious grounds as the reason for their refusal to go back.

Over 900 Pakistani Hindus eligible for Indian citizenship: report



My comment: As I stated earlier, the flow is totally one sided. While Bangladesh has been little better than Pakistan in regards to the welfare of their minorities, these unwanted people will be totally wiped out soon or later. Islam may not be at fault but people who practice it are the real problem  Nobody has time to wait until these Islamists would finally follow the Islam's teachings? Another thousand years?
-SD


 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS




__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
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Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen



A lot more money was spent, about fifty crores of rupees, on the security of Kasab than on the salary of Kodnani.  To carry out the death sentence of the former, a sum of only fifty rupees has been sanctioned.  If the Sikhs could carry out the death sentence of people who raided the Golden temple, why can't the Muslims do the same for the Gujrat riot criminals?

On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

I agree with Ms. Dev Sen. Journalists and other intellectuals of her quality are the people who have made India a better country than many others in the world.
 
Assuming the evidences against Kodnani's crimes are as foolproof, I would go further; Kodnani is probably guiltier than Kasab. Kasab was brainwashed to be a terrorist, and he did not hide that; whereas Kodnani was a people's representative, entrusted with the welfare of all of her constituency.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
================================================ 

From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen

 
It is a great article by Amartya Sen and Nabanita Dev Sen's daughter. Sangh Parivar hates Amartya Sen. He has discussed Babri demolition and Gujarat riots in his book Argumentative Indian. 

Sent from my iPhone
 
===========================================
.....................................................................

-----Original message-----
From: Sukla Sen <sukla.sen@gmail.com>

 Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen
 http://www.asianage.com/columnists/kodnani-no-less-guilty-kasab-382 

Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab

Sep 01, 2012



Kodnani helped kill 35 kids, 32 women and 30 men. Almost as a reward, Mr Modi made her state minister for women & child development.
 
Our justice system presented us with two enormously important judgments on Wednesday, August 29. Both were about mass murder. Both were about massacres that had horrified the nation. Both had a sectarian angle. Both verdicts proclaimed that there was a larger conspiracy and meticulous planning behind the mass murders. Both found the accused guilty of pre-meditated mass murder.
But we responded to these two verdicts very differently. Which once again gives away our shameful prejudices, mindless priorities and silent fears.
The Supreme Court verdict on Ajmal Kasab upheld his death penalty awarded by the Bombay high court for the Mumbai terror attacks on November 26, 2008. And the verdict of a special court convicted 32, including two powerful political figures, for the Naroda Patiya massacre in Gujarat in 2002. Sentencing is awaited as I write this. The death sentence is a possibility, but life imprisonment is more likely. Especially given the VIPs convicted, and the fact that as far as I remember no one has got the death sentence for the massacre of Muslims in the post-Godhra violence till now. The only ones sentenced to death for the 2002 violence were 11 Muslims convicted of the Godhra train burning.
The SC's verdict on Ajmal Kasab, a terrorist responsible for the "26/11" attack on Mumbai, was a foregone conclusion. Kasab was a self-confessed Pakistani terrorist, the only one captured alive of the 10 attackers who killed 166 in Mumbai, and his chance of escaping the death sentence was practically non-existent. But the 32 Indian citizens of Gujarat, convicted of murder and criminal conspiracy in the Naroda Patiya massacre that left 97 dead in 2002, had every chance of getting away with murder, like thousands of their fellow killers. And thus the conviction — especially of sitting MLA, former minister and Narendra Modi's close aide Maya Kodnani and Bajrang Dal leader Babu Bajrangi — made us sit up. Such verdicts were not for powerful folk. Whatever happened to our carefully nurtured political culture of impunity?
So our belligerent baying for Kasab's blood is in stark contrast to our cautious, measured and often defensive response to the conviction of Kodnani and Bajrangi, along with 30 others. Even the media shows double standards in the way it humanises the ruthless killers who gleefully butchered 97 in Naroda Patiya, while demonising Kasab, who with his partner, shot dead 58 at Mumbai's Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST).
We are offered heart-wrenching images of weeping mothers, wives and sisters of the killers of Naroda Patiya. Killers who blocked escape routes and hacked to death little children and women, burnt babies alive, set fire to helpless old people and terrified men, women and children, raped and tortured their victims before burning them alive. Killers who slashed open the belly of pregnant women to carve out the womb and kill the foetus before the mother. Ten years later, when gruesome details of their brutality have faded, must we share the sorrow of these killers' families hurt by justice? And if we are to look at the human face of inhuman killers, why don't we witness the sorrow of Kasab's mother, too? Dear God, no! That would be treason!
Hang Kasab publicly, demanded some of our political leaders, who would clearly prefer lynching to our staid process of justice. The Shiv Sena demanded that he be hanged at CST. "Does the government have the guts to carry out the sentence?" challenged Uddhav Thackeray.
In fact, our netas are falling over each other to insist on Kasab's hanging right here, right now. It seems to be the only way to assert their patriotism. So BJP spokesperson Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi roars: "Kasab should be hanged without delay! Enough of biryani for him!" We even grudge him the basic jail food. And we hate the fact that Kasab has a right to appeal for mercy. Even a former solicitor-general of India, Harish Salve, raged that Kasab's mercy plea, if there is one, should not be entertained at all by the government. And the Shiv Sena plans to seek amendments to Article 72 of the Constitution so that only Indians can seek clemency. "Are our laws meant for Indians or Pakistani nationals?" shouts Mr Thackeray.
So go get the hangman. The last hangman in the region, the old, infirm and very retired Arjun Jadhav, has agreed to do the honours. Not necessary, says Swati Sathe, a top cop in Maharashtra and former jailer of Arthur Road prison which holds Kasab. We could do it. Cops could legitimately hang him. "I would not have flinched if I was ordered to hang Kasab," says she.
In contrast, those screaming loudest for Kasab's blood practically dismiss the Naroda Patiya verdict as irrelevant. The BJP talks of "progress" and Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi's "good governance", and brushes aside lesser "issues like this conviction". Clearly, mass murders and conspiracy to massacre by an outsider is unforgivable, deserving of the highest punishment. But mass murders and conspiracy to massacre by our own leaders and elected representatives is not. Why is butchering those you are supposed to protect using the state machinery and public money and then using the state machinery to shield oneself less of a crime than murdering unknown people in a no-holds barred suicide attack?
Let's look at Kodnani. This BJP MLA is a gynaecologist, and has been the trusted representative of Naroda for years. The doctor knew her locality well, and helped kill 35 children, 32 women and 30 men by supplying the rioters with information, access, weapons and fuel. Almost as a reward, she was made state minister for women and child development by Mr Modi.
I am not in favour of capital punishment. But I believe we must reduce our double standards in justice delivery. The SC says it has no option but to hang Kasab because he was part of a conspiracy to wage war against India and fuel communal tension. We leap in joy. But neither we nor the courts talk of waging war against the very idea of India, and fuelling communal tension by ruthless sectarian massacres by trusted state agents. That's a war that can destroy India from within. And for ever. It is far more dangerous than sporadic terrorist attacks by outsiders.
The writer is editor of The Little Magazine. She can be contacted at: sen@littlemag.com

--
Peace Is Doable

===================================================






__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
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