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Sunday, March 19, 2017

Re: [mukto-mona] Pakistan asks Facebook to help fight blasphemy? Can it? Would it?



Mr. Cocoanut 'Pat' cannot fathom what his being talked about when the subject is blasphemy.  One would think that he would make a 2-paisa effort to add to his boiled brain knowledge on the subject.  


Mr Cocoanut PAT should read (if he can) before he blames everyone for not being able to defend logically a subject that he has no comprehension of -- logical or illogical.
<< Blasphemy is a highly sensitive and incendiary issue in Pakistan.

Critics say blasphemy laws, which allow the death penalty in some cases, are often misused to oppress minorities.>>  

It is a silly idea trying to "fight" blasphemy -- in fact, such a statement does not make sense. Any old thing can be imagined to be "blasphemous' now in Pakistan in order to start a religious riot.

It is a fact of history that blasphemy was a punishable law in Christianity, and not in Islam. No amount of Cocoanut giri on Mr. 'Pat's part can change that history.

Does Cocoanut Mr.Pat know why blasphemy laws are difficult to implement and the Pakistani judiciary is torn about it, with a valiant man, Gov. Taseer ( a nephew of the great poet Faiz Ahmed Faiz)  already murdered brutally trying to abolish it? 



From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Dristy Pat dristypat5@gmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:43 PM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Pakistan asks Facebook to help fight blasphemy? Can it? Would it?
 
 

Why do you need to fight Blasphemy? 

You fight Blasphemy because you can't logically defend it. So, you try to prevent Blasphemy by law, by force, by terrorizing and killing violators. Still, you can't do it. So, you are seeking help from Facebook.  That's a sign of desperation to strangle free speech.

Facebook usually boosts free speech, but, who knows its liberal admin could abandon free speech  mantra and join your fight against blasphemy. 

Do you know why it is so hard to stop blasphemy? It's because, free speech is a devine intrinsic right of the human being. It comes from God. Obviously,  you claim to have a different God.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 4:01 PM, DeEldar shahdeeldar@gmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

It sounds like a child's tantrum. Respect should be earned and not to be imposed onto others. That does not work.




__._,_.___

Posted by: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} HASINA'S RAZAKAR CABINET



"ইতিহাসের অমোঘ সত্যের লালন, বিকাশ, রাষ্ট্রীয় স্বীকৃতি: প্রয়োজনীয়তা: করনীয়।"

সিকদার গিয়াসউদ্দিন


<< এলো ২৫`শে মার্চের ভয়াল রাত। বঙ্গবন্ধুকে গ্রেফতার করা হয়। একই সাথে "অপারেশন সার্চ লাইট"য়ের নামে বর্বর পাক হায়েনা বাহিনী ঢাকা বিশ্ববিদ্যালয়ের বিভিন্ন হল সহ ঢাকা শহর ও দেশের সর্বত্র একযোগে ইতিহাসের জঘন্যতম গনহত্যা শুরু করে।চতুর্দিকে অগ্নিসংযোগ,নারীদের উপর পাশবিক নির্যাতন,শিশু,কিশোর,তরুন,যুবা-বৃদ্ধ কেউ এদের বর্বরতা থেকে রেহাই পাইনি। শুরু হয়ে গেলো জনযুদ্ধ তথা স্বাধীনতা অর্জনের লক্ষ্যে মুক্তির জন্য যুদ্ধ।ঐ রাতে তথা ২৬`শে মার্চ ভোরের সূর্য্য উঠার আগেই বিবিসি ও আমেরিকা সহ বিশ্বের সকল গন ও প্রচার মাধ্যমে বঙ্গবন্ধু কর্তৃক স্বাধীনতা ঘোষনার বিষয়টি প্রচারিত হতে থাকে।যা তখনকার পাকিস্তান সেনাবাহিনীর জনসংযোগ কর্মকর্তা সিদ্দিক সালিকের লেখায় স্পষ্টাক্ষরে লিখিত হয়েছে।আমেরিকা সহ বিভিন্ন দেশের আর্কাইভে এসব এখন প্রতিনিয়ত মেলে।ইন্টারনেটের বদৌলতে তা এখন আরও সহজলভ্য। অবশ্য পরের দিন কালুর ঘাট `স্বাধীন বাংলা বেতার কেন্দ্র`থেকে জহুর আহমদ চৌধূরী কর্তৃক প্রাপ্ত তথ্যের ভিত্তিতে প্রথমে আওয়ামী লীগের নেতা এম এ হান্নান,মেজর জিয়াউর রহমান সহ অনেককে বঙ্গবন্ধুর নেতৃত্বে বঙ্গবন্ধুর নামে স্বাধীনতার ঘোষনা পাঠ করার কথাও দেশবাসী অবগত।>>


 http://notundesh.com/details.php?link=4366&&+category=%E0%A6%AE%E0%A6%A4-%E0%A6%AE%E0%A6%A4%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%A8%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%A4%E0%A6%B0





From: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> on behalf of RANU CHOWDHURY <ranu51@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:35 AM
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
Cc: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; nabdc@googlegroups.com; LA Discussion
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} HASINA'S RAZAKAR CABINET
 

Thanks, Rezaul Karim Bhai, for appropriate rebuttal. 


The BAKSALis have now stooped so low as as to bring in fake, or at best irrelevant, Pakistani references to make Mujib the "ghost declarer" of independence of Bangladesh on March 25, 1971. Where were all these "golden evidences" for the past 46 years when BAKSALis use all the telescopes/microscopes at their disposal to search for a thread where and how Mujib could be bestowed that honor? After 46 years, some weirdo faked/doctored a stick/rifle wielding crowd to depict the demand for independence. 


Yes, people did make demonstrations seeking independence from Pakistan before March 25, 1971, but Mujib was not one of them. He engaged himself in saving Pakistan until he lost the game, somewhat foolishly, to Yahya-Tikka's treachery and finally deciding to seek their Mehmannawazi for himself and his family. The picture of the public demonstration used in the video was not of March 1971 or before. It was the victory march of the people after the fall of Pakistanis on December 16, 1971. Check the archives. 


Other than a passing reference in the book of Sharmin Ahmed, daughter of Tajuddin Ahmed, nobody ever heard of the clandestine radio mentioned by Kazi Alam. A few questions:

Why would Mujib record such an important declaration secretly? 
Why Tajuddin, his right hand man, or even his family members would not know it? 
Shouldn't Mujib go underground after recording such a message (treason for Pakistan)?
After recording such a declaration why would Mujib wait for the Pakistanis to pick him up and that they arrange royal treatment for his family?
Only an insane idiot can believe them. 

Major Siddik Salek said many other things about Mujib in his book Witness to Surrender (I have a copy). He mentioned that Mujib sent two aides to General Khadem Hossain Raja on the night of March 6, 1971 seeking to be arrested; in other words, he wanted to surrender even at that crucial moment which he thought the situation was going out of his hands. Mujib also talked with Joseph Farland on the same evening seeking the US help. Neither Raja nor Farland bought Mujib's plea. Salek also said of a telephone conversation with Farland on the night of March 25, 1971 perhaps to discuss the surrender terms and and treatment to his family. The 70 million other Bengalis in the hands of Pakistani hyenas were not his concern, even though they had given all the love he had asked of them. 

Maor Ziaur Rahman declared the independence on March 27, 1971 from Chittagong, as admitted by him. That was the only announcement the people of Bangladesh and the rest of the world heard, nothing else.
Stop these trumpism!

From: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Rezaul Karim <rezaulkarim617@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 4:12 PM
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
Cc: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} HASINA'S RAZAKAR CABINET
 
It's been said million of times but the truth still shines brighter than ever.  You people have surpassed Goebbels but could not make any headway and never will. 
Stop lies, stop propaganda  
FM, since when you started believing Pakistanis? What a change of mind!


On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:


https://www.facebook.com/shahalamkorea/videos/928668510558836/
পাকিস্তান টিভিতে শুনেন ৭১ সালে কে সাধীনতার ঘোষণা দিছিলেন!

123,317 Views
Kazi Shah Alam with Mohammed Shahriar Alam.

পাকিস্তান টিভিতে শুনেন ৭১ সালে কে সাধীনতার ঘোষণা দিছিলেন!

123,317 Views
Kazi Shah Alam with Mohammed Shahriar Alam.

পাকিস্তান টিভিতে শুনেন ৭১ সালে কে সাধীনতার ঘোষণা দিছিলেন!




From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Farida Majid farida_majid@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 7:02 PM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} HASINA'S RAZAKAR CABINET
 
 

Thats my grandniece Princess Zakia -- and she knows how to kick ass and the cohorts of past 2-paisa tin-soldier Military dictator -- she knows how to protect Bangladesh from EVIL forces.  She is the future generation with all the blessings of Almighty Allah!


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154877318841131&set=a.82977611130.112047.573291130&type=3





From: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Post Card <abahar.canada@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 9:14 AM
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; Jalal Khan; Zoglul Husain; RANU CHOWDHURY; rashed Anam; Mohamed Nazir; Isha Khan; Mohammed Siddique; Sameer Syed; Rezaul Karim; New England Bnp
Subject: {PFC-Friends} HASINA'S RAZAKAR CABINET
 
Image may contain: 1 person


Ibrahim "...মুক্তিযোদ্ধার তালিকা থেকে, বীরোত্তম, https://www.facebook.com/shahalamkorea/videos/928668510558836/https://www.facebook.com/shahalamkorea/videos/928668510558836/ এর নাম বাদ দেয়া হবে।
পাকিস্তান টিভিতে শুনেন ৭১ সালে কে সাধীনতার ঘোষণা দিছিলেন!
পাকিস্তান টিভিতে শুনেন ৭১ সালে কে সাধীনতার ঘোষণা দিছিলেন!

অবৈধ , অনির্বাচিত , ঘসেটি বিবি , হাসিনা কে সতর্ক করছি, হুশিয়ার বার্তায় বলতে চাই
যদি শহীদ প্রেসিডেস্ট জিয়াউর রহমান এর নাম মুক্তিযোদ্ধার তালিকা থেকে বাদ দেয়ার দু:সাহস দেখানো হয়।, তবে শেখ মুজিবের নাম চির তরে এ দেশের মাটি থেকে মুছে দেয়া হবে ।
ইনশাআল্লাহ্....
মনে রাখবেন, ছেলের হাতে আগুন দিয়ে খেলবেন না!---...

তাতে কেবল ছেলে নয় , পুরো বাড়ি, গ্রাম,মহল্লা তথা পুরো দেশ পুড়ে ছাঁই হয়ে যাবে।।।।।।
আগুনের খেলা বন্ধ চাই

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__._,_.___

Posted by: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] Amal Clooney's Passionate Plea to the UN to Bring ISIS to Justice





__._,_.___

Posted by: Dristy Pat <dristypat5@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} HASINA'S RAZAKAR CABINET




জাতীসংঘ সেশনে নির্মূল কমিটি: একাত্তরের গণহত্যাকে স্বীকৃতি দিন'

<< জাতীসংঘ হিউম্যান রাইটস কাউন্সিলের ৩৪তম অধিবেশনের এই সেশনে সুইজারল্যান্ড নির্মূল কমিটির নির্বাহী সভাপতি রহমান খলিলুরের নেতৃত্বে অংশ নেয়া নির্মূল কমিটি প্রতিনিধি দলের অন্যান্য সদস্যরা হলেন, নির্মুল কমিটি'র কেন্দ্রীয় নির্বাহী সদস্য আনসার আহমেদ উল্লা এবং সুইজারল্যান্ড নির্মূল কমিটি নেতা হাসান ইমাম খান, নিজাম উদ্দিন ও অরুণ বড়ুয়া। >>>

সৈয়দ আনাস পাশা, এডিটর-ইন-চিফ সত্যবাণী লন্ডন: একাত্তরে বাংলাদেশে পাকিস্তানী সামরিক বাহিনীর গণহত্যাকে 'গণহত্যা' হিসেবে স্বীকৃতি দিতে জাতীসংঘের প্রতি আহবান জানিয়েছেন
SHOTTOBANI.COM

 


From: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> on behalf of RANU CHOWDHURY <ranu51@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:35 AM
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
Cc: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; nabdc@googlegroups.com; LA Discussion
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} HASINA'S RAZAKAR CABINET
 

Thanks, Rezaul Karim Bhai, for appropriate rebuttal. 


The BAKSALis have now stooped so low as as to bring in fake, or at best irrelevant, Pakistani references to make Mujib the "ghost declarer" of independence of Bangladesh on March 25, 1971. Where were all these "golden evidences" for the past 46 years when BAKSALis use all the telescopes/microscopes at their disposal to search for a thread where and how Mujib could be bestowed that honor? After 46 years, some weirdo faked/doctored a stick/rifle wielding crowd to depict the demand for independence. 


Yes, people did make demonstrations seeking independence from Pakistan before March 25, 1971, but Mujib was not one of them. He engaged himself in saving Pakistan until he lost the game, somewhat foolishly, to Yahya-Tikka's treachery and finally deciding to seek their Mehmannawazi for himself and his family. The picture of the public demonstration used in the video was not of March 1971 or before. It was the victory march of the people after the fall of Pakistanis on December 16, 1971. Check the archives. 


Other than a passing reference in the book of Sharmin Ahmed, daughter of Tajuddin Ahmed, nobody ever heard of the clandestine radio mentioned by Kazi Alam. A few questions:

Why would Mujib record such an important declaration secretly? 
Why Tajuddin, his right hand man, or even his family members would not know it? 
Shouldn't Mujib go underground after recording such a message (treason for Pakistan)?
After recording such a declaration why would Mujib wait for the Pakistanis to pick him up and that they arrange royal treatment for his family?
Only an insane idiot can believe them. 

Major Siddik Salek said many other things about Mujib in his book Witness to Surrender (I have a copy). He mentioned that Mujib sent two aides to General Khadem Hossain Raja on the night of March 6, 1971 seeking to be arrested; in other words, he wanted to surrender even at that crucial moment which he thought the situation was going out of his hands. Mujib also talked with Joseph Farland on the same evening seeking the US help. Neither Raja nor Farland bought Mujib's plea. Salek also said of a telephone conversation with Farland on the night of March 25, 1971 perhaps to discuss the surrender terms and and treatment to his family. The 70 million other Bengalis in the hands of Pakistani hyenas were not his concern, even though they had given all the love he had asked of them. 

Maor Ziaur Rahman declared the independence on March 27, 1971 from Chittagong, as admitted by him. That was the only announcement the people of Bangladesh and the rest of the world heard, nothing else.
Stop these trumpism!

From: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Rezaul Karim <rezaulkarim617@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 4:12 PM
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
Cc: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} HASINA'S RAZAKAR CABINET
 
It's been said million of times but the truth still shines brighter than ever.  You people have surpassed Goebbels but could not make any headway and never will. 
Stop lies, stop propaganda  
FM, since when you started believing Pakistanis? What a change of mind!


On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:


https://www.facebook.com/shahalamkorea/videos/928668510558836/
পাকিস্তান টিভিতে শুনেন ৭১ সালে কে সাধীনতার ঘোষণা দিছিলেন!

123,317 Views
Kazi Shah Alam with Mohammed Shahriar Alam.

পাকিস্তান টিভিতে শুনেন ৭১ সালে কে সাধীনতার ঘোষণা দিছিলেন!

123,317 Views
Kazi Shah Alam with Mohammed Shahriar Alam.

পাকিস্তান টিভিতে শুনেন ৭১ সালে কে সাধীনতার ঘোষণা দিছিলেন!




From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Farida Majid farida_majid@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 7:02 PM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} HASINA'S RAZAKAR CABINET
 
 

Thats my grandniece Princess Zakia -- and she knows how to kick ass and the cohorts of past 2-paisa tin-soldier Military dictator -- she knows how to protect Bangladesh from EVIL forces.  She is the future generation with all the blessings of Almighty Allah!


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154877318841131&set=a.82977611130.112047.573291130&type=3





From: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Post Card <abahar.canada@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 9:14 AM
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; Jalal Khan; Zoglul Husain; RANU CHOWDHURY; rashed Anam; Mohamed Nazir; Isha Khan; Mohammed Siddique; Sameer Syed; Rezaul Karim; New England Bnp
Subject: {PFC-Friends} HASINA'S RAZAKAR CABINET
 
Image may contain: 1 person


Ibrahim "...মুক্তিযোদ্ধার তালিকা থেকে, বীরোত্তম, https://www.facebook.com/shahalamkorea/videos/928668510558836/https://www.facebook.com/shahalamkorea/videos/928668510558836/ এর নাম বাদ দেয়া হবে।
পাকিস্তান টিভিতে শুনেন ৭১ সালে কে সাধীনতার ঘোষণা দিছিলেন!
পাকিস্তান টিভিতে শুনেন ৭১ সালে কে সাধীনতার ঘোষণা দিছিলেন!

অবৈধ , অনির্বাচিত , ঘসেটি বিবি , হাসিনা কে সতর্ক করছি, হুশিয়ার বার্তায় বলতে চাই
যদি শহীদ প্রেসিডেস্ট জিয়াউর রহমান এর নাম মুক্তিযোদ্ধার তালিকা থেকে বাদ দেয়ার দু:সাহস দেখানো হয়।, তবে শেখ মুজিবের নাম চির তরে এ দেশের মাটি থেকে মুছে দেয়া হবে ।
ইনশাআল্লাহ্....
মনে রাখবেন, ছেলের হাতে আগুন দিয়ে খেলবেন না!---...

তাতে কেবল ছেলে নয় , পুরো বাড়ি, গ্রাম,মহল্লা তথা পুরো দেশ পুড়ে ছাঁই হয়ে যাবে।।।।।।
আগুনের খেলা বন্ধ চাই

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Posted by: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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Re: [mukto-mona] Pakistan asks Facebook to help fight blasphemy? Can it? Would it?



Very good point!

Blaming others for some chronic societal and religious problems in the Muslim community has been a hallmark of this lady. This lady was desperately researching for someone to blame for the blasphemy laws, and found something that is a few hundred years old. She must be feeling good that she can blame someone else for blasphemy law.

What she is inferring here is that - don't blame Muslims for the blasphemy law, and, as usual, the grand answer is - Quran does not support blasphemy law, but we have it because British people gave us this law. Does it make sense to anyone in this forum?   

This is the reason why these problems are still lingering in the Muslim community.

Pathetic! 



On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 10:41 PM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

At this age, Pakistanis and their followers would be fighting a loosing battle. Muslims need to learn how to ignore critic against prophets and religion. When all religions are being ridiculed, why Islam be so special? Let Gods and prophets defend themselves! Do they really need help from us mortals? 


On Saturday, March 18, 2017 9:16 PM, "Dristy Pat dristypat5@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Why do you need to fight Blasphemy? 

You fight Blasphemy because you can't logically defend it. So, you try to prevent Blasphemy by law, by force, by terrorizing and killing violators. Still, you can't do it. So, you are seeking help from Facebook.  That's a sign of desperation to strangle free speech.

Facebook usually boosts free speech, but, who knows its liberal admin could abandon free speech  mantra and join your fight against blasphemy. 

Do you know why it is so hard to stop blasphemy? It's because, free speech is a devine intrinsic right of the human being. It comes from God. Obviously,  you claim to have a different God.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 4:01 PM, DeEldar shahdeeldar@gmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
It sounds like a child's tantrum. Respect should be earned and not to be imposed onto others. That does not work.






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Posted by: Dristy Pat <dristypat5@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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