what kind of civility is assertion? here is one person who has a Hindu name [there is nothing of that sort in reality] and hails from Bangladesh and uses English as a communicating medium [ i am bound to use that here as the guftugu is now using only the language -"langage de chiens, de treteurs et de compradores"] , (with very poor diction too). This person cherishes to establish his viewpoints only through vituperative insinuations and assertions. Prof Farida Majid and Prof Chakraborty differ in their opinion, I do not fall in full length line and pace with either of them, but that is the beauty of an open guftugu..... Let us drop and lump our assertions and let us peruse each and every point based on facts and logic. If any religious thought is evil then all religious thoughts are. Religious thoughts may be examined literally [the most nincompoop and stupid way of nyay or ilm or knolwedge justuju], they may also be considered as traditions and belief systems ensconced in context [context as a dynamic process and not a static predicament- the reference is quite obvious]. Why people follow a religious thought is not to be found always in the history or in the avowed slogans but to be found in the people's dynamics of social behaviour and how a collective practices and how that collective wants the religion to be seen by others and by themselves as-well. Again, i fully accede, that readers do comprehend my obvious slant- [and that really does not matter], but there is no better path of thinking when it comes to understanding the changing world.... Therefore it behooves on us to think how the followers of a particular religion would like their belief system to be observed and appreciated when their daily practice is done without the help of power of any kind [again the reference is too obvious, i agree but i still refrain from mentioning the reference explicitly] . Thus let us fathom how the daily practitioners, who do not have any wherewithal to impose it on others through power, practice them...... how the simple peasant of Bangladesh practice their belief system? Does that peasant hate a fellow traveller of different religion??? Only that matters and nothing else.....
On 6 July 2015 at 03:29, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, Professor Chakrabarty, you have asked me to give an example of where you have tried to be politically correct. Over the years I have criticized you many times for the political correctness of the time. Why are you asking for an example now? But thanks to you, I do not have to dig anywhere. Here is one from you post now, "I have deep respect for every body's belief although I may not agree with those beliefs." Do you respect the belief that women are inferior to men? Do you respect the belief that believers (of God) are not to take unbelievers (of God) as friends? Do you respect the belief that God has serious punishment for people who do not believe in God? (What a nonsense; I punish you if you do not believe in my existence! I am the almighty, all controlling, and merciful God; but I do not use my might, controlling power and mercy to create you with a mind of believing in me; I need to threaten you with punishment in order to make a believer out of you!!)Now, let me give you an advice, Mr. Chakrabarty. Please stop being so politically correct as to say any nonsense like you have 'deep respect for every body's belief.' If you are not willing to trash the hateful and foolish religious beliefs, just keep quiet; as opposed to saying something that you do not mean and cannot defend. (I am willing to understand your silence, as I could see the realities of the lives of people like you.)SuBain====================On Sunday, July 5, 2015 1:07 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
If I remember correctly, Prof. Majid's email was posted by Mukto-Mona. I want to believe that some of my messages not published by this yahoo group is because of some technical reason. Jahed, one of the moderators, is on the recipient list. He should know what is going on. I do not want to believe that Mukto-Mona is too coward to publish posts contents of which differ from the the group's philosophy. I don't want to believe that the group is do autocratic. If the group wants to remove my name, I don't have any problem. But I would expect that it would honestly let me know why it has removed my name.It is good that we do not agree with one another on every point. Diversity is the life blood of every group or society.Mr. Deeldar once said that I am a good man but naive. I don't know how good I am. But I am not naive at all. This is not the first time that you have accused me of being 'politically correct'. For obvious reasons I do not say every thing that I feel like saying. But if I have said or say any thing, I do it out of my beliefs and convictions. It is your choice how you want to see me. Why don't you give an example of where I have tried to be politically correct.When I engage in a debate, I do it with civility. I counter attack if some one attacks me with nasty words. As I have said many times, I have been a confirmed atheist for more than 45 years. But like many others I live among the believers. I have deep respect for every body's belief although I may not agree with those beliefs. I have my own ethical and moral standards. These are obviously subjective. These standards are very important for me.
Sent from my iPhoneWell, Mr. Chakrabarty, I generally read your posts; although I do not agree with quite a bit of your political correctness. However, let me tell you that I can see why the Mukto-Mona team and the cc-ed individuals ignored the Jul 3, 2015, 2:32 PM, post by Farida Majid. Her charges against Mukto-Mona could not be taken seriously, not were they worth any response.Let me give you the sequence of events that made her upset.Jun 15, 2015, 11:16 PM: Farida Majid posts the article titled "India's 1947 Partition And The 'Deadly Legacy' That Persists To This Day" by Nisid Hazari.Jun 16, 2015, 7:42 AM: I make the following comments: "The deadly legacy did not begin in 1947 in the Indian subcontinent. It began in the 7th century Arabia. Look, if it were just the 1947 India, neither Bangladesh nor Pakistan would have had Islam in the business of the state. If these two countries were respectful of the non-Muslims of the land, today they would be competing friendly with India on secular humanism, justice, peace, science, technology, and prosperity. Blaming it all on 1947, the British rulers, etc. is really diverting the reality of the last 65 years. (Assume the first 3 years to be the unavoidable turbulent time after the partition). I would not be surprised if Nisid Hajari is paid by the pan-Islamic powers/interest groups."Jun 16, 2015, 11:20 PM: Ali Shaheen comments, "Incredible! Do say more on how it began in 7th. century Arabia? Did Muhammad call for the division of India?! .........."Jun 17, 2015, 6:15 PM: Farida Majid comments, "Shaheen, Sukhmay Bain is a tiresome troll whose heart is blackened by a communal rage. He says outrageously absurd things against the Muslims day after day, month after month, year after year. ..........."Jun 18 2015, 7:06 AM: I comment, "Most of the time I ignore Farida Majid. She masquerades as a rational human being, but in reality her mind is subservient to the prescriptions of her religion, which obviously she cannot hide. I feel pity for her kind of people who, in spite of a good deal of academic accomplishment in humanities/sciences, remain captive to the stupidity and hatred of their religions."Now, let me ask you to comment on the point that I take seriously, "Look, if it were just the 1947 India, neither Bangladesh nor Pakistan would have had Islam in the business of the state. If these two countries were respectful of the non-Muslims of the land, today they would be competing friendly with India on secular humanism, justice, peace, science, technology, and prosperity. Blaming it all on 1947, the British rulers, etc. is really diverting the reality of the last 65 years."I can understand that your style would be different, but tell me what was the reason for the Islamization of Bangladesh, and if/how my comments were hateful to the Muslims.As for Islam, any rational human being who read the books of that religion know that it does not respect non-Muslims. I certainly would maintain that the followers of Islam need serious re-education; and I am sure that a humanist like you would not find any hatred in my comments.Thanks,Sukhamaya Bain======================================On Saturday, July 4, 2015 10:34 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sometimes my email messages get lost in action. This may be due to some technical reason. I hope it is not due to any hidden policies of Mukto-Mona which I am not aware of. Muktomona's open policy or philosophy is to respect opinions. I hope it not only preaches, it practices also. If this declared policy is obeyed by the administrators, this forum will help the participants in engaging meaningful engagements.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 3, 2015, at 2:32 PM, Farida Majid farida_majid@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:. . . and an essay for its die-hard racist stalwarts in mukto-mona where Islamophobia is the only permissible expression that is in fashion. Flatly stated, if you're not an Islamophobe you're an ineligible member of the club "Mukto mona". A female with a Muslim name, wanting to plead for our traditional Bangla (Indian) pluralism, would be viciously attacked for her sex, religion, age, class and education. She would be considered a 'non-human' -- a kind of a demon.
Sukhmaya Bain, a regular mukto-mona participator, has no qualms in posting gratuitous, racial slanderous comment on Farida Majid, a female 'demon' with a Muslim name -- <<"She masquerades as a rational human being, but in reality her mind is subservient to the prescriptions of her religion, which obviously she cannot hide. I feel pity for her kind of people who, in spite of a good deal of academic accomplishment in humanities/sciences, remain captive to the stupidity and hatred of their religions." -- Bain says he can PROVE that every word of it is RIGHT. Let him and/or his solicitor attempt to PROVE every word of the above statement as RIGHT in a Court of Law.James Loewen on Racism and US History
MP3 Link
This week on CounterSpin: "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past," recited Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984. Nowadays, news media have a good deal of control over our knowledge and understanding of the past: The Fourth of July weekend will doubtless feature media chatter about what America "stands for," and how our history has shaped us.
But much of the talk will bear little relationship to the country's actual history, which is roughly a million times more complicated and conflict-riddled than the image we are usually presented: a more or less steady march of "progress," with perhaps a few bumps in the road. Someone who's thought a lot about how we mis-learn history and how that shapes our political life is James W. Loewen. He's the author of the classic book, Lies My Teacher Told Me, which assesses the textbooks used in US classrooms, turning up falsehoods, elisions and distortions. He explains some of the reasons students say they hate history–and non-white students hate it most of all.
For Independence Day, then, CounterSpin presents an extended interview with author and professor James Loewen.
LINK:
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Posted by: Soumitra Bose <soumitrabose@gmail.com>
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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration:
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