RE: [ALOCHONA] FW: Saudi Columnist: Secularism The Only Option For Saudi Arabia--stange logic

Dear sirs,

Assalamu Alaikum.Sheikh Mujibur Rahman also used to call Jinnah sahib Quaid e Asam ( please see the proceedings of Pakistan National Assembly from 1957 to 58 ,as quoted in Bangladesh independence documents, volume 1.Sheikh sahib’s party also made his sister Fatima Jinnah as Presendial candidate in 1964.In his speeches with Fatima Jinnah ,Sheilh sahib always referred that she was the sister of Quaide Azam ( see Ittefaq and Azad of that time).

There is no law in  Bangladesh prohibiting the use of Quaid e Azam for Jinnah sahib..

 

Dear readers ask Akbar sahib to let us know what is his Islam,

 

Shah Abdul Hannan

 

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From: alochona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:alochona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Akbar Hussain
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:24 AM
To: alochona group
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] FW: Saudi Columnist: Secularism The Only Option For Saudi Arabia--stange logic

 

 

If hypocrisy is prohibited or haram in Islam read S.A.Hannan. The shameless man who still call Muhammad Ali Jinnah as his,Quaid e Azam although he holds a Bangladeshi Passport and permanently lives in Bangladesh. I am reading this man for the last few years whose religious fanaticism has miserably failed his education and age. To him the rusted views of an ignorant mullah are more important than anything. He relentlessly propagates his 7^th century views on Islam to negate secularism. He never understood the importance of freedom in life. He firmly believes in dogmas to demonize intellect. His ignorance knows no bound.

 

Akbar Hussain

 

 

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To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
CC: sahannan2004@yahoo.co.in; azmi2171@yahoo.com; azharhabib_03@yahoo.com; a.moonmoon@yahoo.com; ahmadtotonji@yahoo.com
From: sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 21:12:16 +0600
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] FW: Saudi Columnist: Secularism The Only Option For Saudi Arabia--stange logic

 

 

Dear sirs,

Assalamu Alaikum.Quaid e Azam did not make only one speech, he spoke many times before and after this speech.You can see his Dhaka speeches in March 1948 ( in volume 1 of independence documents of Bangladesh) and his speech in State Bank of Pakista, you will know what he wanted.

 

Secularism was a revolt against religion, it is close to Atheism in actual action. Secularism by propaganda and actual action threw out religion from public life and captured it for itself.

 

Mr Abdul Kareem, if he is Abdul Kareem ( servant of Kareem-  Allah) then how can he forget that Prophet (sm) established a state in Madina where the law was islam with full rights for Non-Muslims.

 

Secularism is the reason for complete breakdown of morality in political, economic and international behavior apart from other destructive effects in family and society.

Only mis-guided persons will say that behavior of present regime in Bangladesh is democratic.

 

Shah Abdul Hannan

 

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From: alochona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:alochona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of muhammed kareem
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 4:26 AM
To: alochona magazine
Cc: sahannan2004@yahoo.co.in; azmi2171@yahoo.com; azharhabib_03@yahoo.com; a.moonmoon@yahoo.com; ahmadtotonji@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] FW: Saudi Columnist: Secularism The Only Option For Saudi Arabia--stange logic

 

 

Dear Mr. Hannan,

I have always been amused by your naivete. May be you should care to explain what secularism is. Based on my limited understanding, the principal feature of secularism is "separation of church and state". Essentially, it means that people will not be judged by their faith. They will be equal partners in affairs of the state. In one of his famous speeches, Jinnah said,

"You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship. . . . We are starting in the days when there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one state."

Based on that speech, Pakistan should clearly have been a secular state (As we all know Jinnah was not much of a Muslim anyway).

You try to score points by stating "The solution for political issues there is democratization which should not be delayed". Very true, but given the nature of democracy in our country what exactly does it mean. In fact, we currently have a democratically elected government, which has many shortcomings but is democratic nonetheless. Are you suggesting that the current government is undemocratic?

thanks,

reza

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To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
CC: sahannan2004@yahoo.co.in; azmi2171@yahoo.com; azharhabib_03@yahoo.com; a.moonmoon@yahoo.com; ahmadtotonji@yahoo.com
From: sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 19:45:21 +0600
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] FW: Saudi Columnist: Secularism The Only Option For Saudi Arabia--stange logic [1 Attachment]

 

[Attachment(s) from S A Hannan included below]

Dear sirs,

 

Assalamu Alaikum.This is a discordant view of an individual person.He also does not know secularism, otherwise he could not say that there is no conflict between Islamic and secular values.

The solution for political issues there is democratization which should not be delayed.

Please also see the attached article.

 

Shah Abdul Hannan

 

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From: alochona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:alochona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Farida Majid
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 12:27 AM
Subject: [ALOCHONA] FW: Saudi Columnist: Secularism The Only Option For Saudi Arabia

 

 

               I have a;ways been saying that secularism is about equal rights of individuals uner conrtitutional law.
 
Secularization of the Saudi judicial system will be implemented when we give the concept of the law preference over the concept of the fatwa. 
 

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Subject: Saudi Columnist: Secularism The Only Option For Saudi Arabia   If you are having trouble viewing this email click here.       Special Dispatch|3224 |September 12, 2010 Saudi Arabia/Democratization and Reform in the Arab & Muslim World       Saudi Columnist: Secularism – The Only Option For Saudi Arabia                 In a highly unusual article in the Saudi daily Al-Wiam, Saudi columnist Ahmad 'Adnan called for the secularization of Saudi Arabia and for the separation of religion and state. He said that there is no contradiction between secular and Islamic values, and that secularization in the country would prevent the Islamists from imposing their views and would ensure equal treatment for all Saudi citizens. He also discussed the conflict between the liberals and the Islamists in Saudi Arabia, which has been widely covered by the media, particularly on the issue of mixing of the genders.[1] Following are excerpts from 'Adnan's column:[2]   "The Modern State, by Its Very Essence, Cannot be Anything but Secular" "The discussion of secularization in Saudi Arabia sometimes looks like a type of madness; many fatwas accuse secularists of unbelief, and ban secularism, claiming that it is a regime that does not act in accordance with shari'a, or that it is a satanic regime. They do so because the sites holy to Islam are within the borders [of this country], and because the establishment of the [Saudi] state was based on an alliance between the religious institution and the political institution. But in the present circumstances, and considering the uncertainty of Saudi future, the cultural and political elite in the country may find that this madness [i.e. secularism] has, with time, become a necessity of reality...  "Thee elements have served as catalysts in the discussion on secularism as a necessity in Saudi Arabia: a) [Saudi] Foreign Minister Saud Al-Faisal's March 2010 statement to The New York Times that Saudi Arabia is 'breaking away from the shackles of the past,' and 'moving in the direction of a liberal society'; b) a media report about a Saudi citizen who was granted political asylum in New Zealand after he converted to Christianity; and c) the ongoing struggle between liberals and Islamists in the Saudi press and media... "The discourse about the secular option means the following: advancing the political and religious institutions' independence from each other, and differentiating between religious standards and political standards... The modern state, by its very essence, cannot be anything but secular. The talk about completing [the process of] building the state and its institutions, or instituting reforms, means drawing closer to secularism. Drawing away from intentions for reform and for building [the appropriate] institutions means drawing away from secularism... which aims to free the social structure from its bonds but not from its values, and to ensure justice and equality for all citizens." Saudi Arabia Must be a State with Religious Sites, but Not a Religious State "In Saudi Arabia, where the political regime is based on the implementation of the Koran and the Sunna, secularism is aimed at actualizing values that are drawn from the Koran and the Sunna, or that [at least] do not contradict them – that is, justice, guarantees of citizen's freedom, and civil and security rights. The basis of the regime's legitimacy is the satisfaction of the citizen and his acceptance of its authority. Accordingly, secularizing [this regime's] foundation will form the basis for a real social compact between the political regime and the citizens. "Saudi Arabia should be referred to as Al-Harmain [that is, the land of the two holy places, Mecca and Medina] from a religious perspective [only], not from a political perspective. That is, Saudi Arabia [as a state] is not the Al-Harmain state, but a [state] in which Al-Harmain exists – and within that state, the Al-Harmain is subject to special laws that must not be applied to other areas... "If the Saudis are charged with spiritual responsibility because Al-Harmain are within its boundaries, then they must emphasize the tolerance of Islam and its culture, [Islam's] interaction with the zeitgeist; its integration with human rights and women's rights, and its alliance with democracy and civil [values]. Unfortunately, however, we see that the religious institution in Saudi Arabia plays the opposite role – and there are all too many examples of this. This is a negative reflection on the image of Islam in the world, and it holds back progress, modernization, and openness in the country." "Secularization … will be Implemented when We Give the Concept of the Law Preference Over the Concept of the Fatwa" "Secularization of the Saudi judicial system will be implemented when we give the concept of the law preference over the concept of the fatwa. If we set aside the limitations and instructions appearing in the Koran, we will find that most of the rules implemented in Saudi Arabia are man-made, or do not appear in the Koran or in the Hadith... Some are cunning and say that this or that [state] law does [in fact] appear in the Koran and Sunna, or that it does not contradict them. They do not understand that law – [which is anchored] in supreme values [that stem from] the principles of truth and justice – will never contradict the Koran and the Sunna. It is inconceivable for a state to be run only by the implementation of Koranic punishments... "Religious jurisprudence is ultimately a human effort [that can be] either right or misguided, and it is amendable. The structure of the state institutions and the complexity of their function forces them to turn to man-made laws that need to be legislated by experts, and must satisfy the citizen. [This is done] with respect for the laws of Islam concerning personal status... and with consideration for the requirements of reality and its innovations...  "The secularization of Saudi education means giving the citizen the freedom, and the right, to determine what kind of religious education his children will receive, and at what level [of piety]. Thus, the regime is freed from conflicts with minorities, [such as] Ismailis and Shi'ites, and from conflict with the Sunni schools of thought that do not follow the practices of the official Hanbali school..." The Role of the Elite in Advancing Secularism "Most unfortunately, the Saudi elite is being swept away by the populist tendency to condemn and renounce secularism. Therefore, this elite is asked to correct its misconceptions regarding secularism, particularly because secularism is not [totally] absent from Saudi public life. It [made inroads] via the pan-Arab movement and the leftist movement in the 1950s and 1960s, and today it has considerable influence through... the liberal movement.  "One result of the renunciation of secularism is the media-cultural battle currently underway among the [various] streams of thought in Saudi Arabia. Its most recent manifestations are the liberals' and Islamists' reciprocal attacks over the issue of the call for gender mixing; over the issue of [Saudi cleric] Dr. Muhammad Al-'Arifi's declaration of his intention to visit Jerusalem; over the issue of [the call by Saudi] preacher Yousuf Al-Ahmad [to raze the Mecca mosque in order to rebuild it so men and women are separated]... These wars have been dominated on both sides by sordid, hostile language, because of each side's fear that the political establishment will heed the calls of the other side. "The propaganda in favor of the idea of secularization in Saudi Arabia does not mean a desire to repress the conservative or Islamist movements. It is a solution [aimed at] preventing the conservatives from forcing their views on others. The secular state is a state that serves as arbiter [between two sides], and is not biased towards a particular side. At the same time, it bans any movement from forcing its position on the other. This demands two fundamental things: a) freedom for the individual to choose his belief and to exercise his rights unmolested, and b) equal rights and obligations for all citizens under the law. Neutrality does not mean a policy of appeasement... It is the state's commitment to assure its citizens the right to live, believe, and express their opinion... "The negative image of secularism that is widespread in Saudi Arabia is obvious, and stems from the circumstances in which the state was established, and from its clerics' social, cultural, and political standing. This image must be handled with a research approach, not [by way of] preaching. In order to arrive at the desired development, the reform program must be completed, the Islamic religious discourse must be renewed, towards genuine reconciliation with [such concepts as] the state, citizenship, rule of law, freedom, and human and women's rights, and advocacy for the values of common sense and the scientific doctrine..."   [1] For a long time in Saudi Arabia there has been an ongoing jurisprudential dispute over whether a man and a woman can be in close proximity without them being considered "alone together," which is banned by shari'a. Many fatwas on this matter have been issued; some have been perceived in the country as bizarre or extremist: for example, a fatwa by senior Saudi sheikh 'Abd Al-Rahman Al-Barak permitting the killing of anyone allowing mixing of the genders (islamlight.net, February 22, 2010); a fatwa issued following the allowing of gender mixing at King 'Abdallah University for Science and Technology (KAUST); and Sheikh 'Abd Al-Mohsin Al-'Obikan's fatwa permitting a woman to breastfeed a man who is not a close relative so that they can work together or be in close proximity for other reasons (alarabiya.net, May 21, 2010; see also MEMRI Inquiry and Analysis No. 626, " Controversy in Saudi Arabia over Fatwa Permitting Breastfeeding of Adults," July 28, 2010, http://memri.convio.net/site/R?i=5Rnj4swT0YnQfSPz1Htewg..). [2] Al-Wiam (Saudi Arabia), May 5, 2010. Please remember the environment before printing. For assistance, please contact MEMRI at memri@memri.org. The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) is an independent, non-profit organization that translates and analyzes the media of the Middle East. Copies of articles and documents cited, as well as background information, are available on request. MEMRI holds copyrights on all translations. Materials may only be used with proper attribution. MEMRI P.O. Box 27837, Washington, DC 20038-7837 Phone: (202) 955-9070 Fax: (202) 955-9077 www.memri.org UNSUBSCRIBE | DONATE | CONTACT US                                                                       nonprofit software

 

 

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