Dear Mr. Ejaz
I think we are drifting away from the original point but I agree more than 100% with your argument. I don't mind if someone is mocking the religiosity of others (Hasina, Khalida and you name it). But that too has a limit. Doing so, be careful that you are not mocking the religion itself. Hey! I myself follow a religion but cannot claim I am following it perfectly.
The guy who started this argument, apparently, stepped out of his limits. I still want to give him the benefit of doubt, as he may have done it very inadvertently. All I want to emphasize and re-emphasize, don't be taken away out of the blind hatred (or blind love) of someone. Not everything in this world is moving in a way you would like to be. (That does not mean at all that you should not criticize and point-out the wrongs, you have every right of it).
With one last thing, I would like to close this argument. One should admit his faults. There is a saying in English language, "nobody but a fool is always right".
With lot of love. I am writing this posting at 3 a.m. as I don't have much time to write during the day.
Regards
Shafiq Ahmad
--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "ezajur" <Ezajur@...> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Shafiq
>
> Thank you for a well reasoned reply.
>
> "A general avoidance of religious arguments cannot necessarily
> prevent one from touching upon the religion of those who have brought
> such disaster upon us."
>
> What I am trying to say – and of course I could have phrased it
> better – is that, bluntly:
>
> Just because I avoid religious argument due to the respect of 1) every
> religion 2) people's sensitivity and even 3) the nature of religion
> itself, does not mean that I cannot mock a person's approach to his
> religion when that person is heaping misery on so many people.
>
> This is entirely about mocking the person and not at all about mocking
> the religion.
>
> If someone has brought disaster upon us I am not saying we should mock
> his religion. Of course I am not saying that. I am claiming the same
> religion as my own! But I am saying I can mock such a person's
> approach to religion and use of religion. The religion itself is just
> fine.
>
> To remove any confusion I quote you: "If someone is a hypocrite, is
> visiting Mecca and all, before and after elections, he is to be blamed
> and not his/her religion." It is perfectly said.
>
> But that does no mean that I am bound by ethics to refrain from mocking
> his pilgrimage as he presides over murder, extortion, rape and mayhem.
> Rather, ethics requires us to highlight his religious hypocrisy.
>
> I agree with you about Jamaat.
>
> You are right, Zia puja and Tungipara tawafs are certainly not caused by
> any religion but by people. I never suggested anything different. But I
> must mock the puja of Zia and the tawafs of Tungipara!
>
> I am sensitive about your relationship with your religion and indeed,
> every person I have ever met. But it is my religious duty to mock the
> religiosity of Khaleda, Hasina and their blind party supporters.
>
> Islam is big enough, great enough and strong enough to not only tolerate
> the use of religious terms in this context but also to drive the
> rebellion against the hypocritical religiosity of the Bangladeshi
> politician.
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Ezajur rahman
>
> Kuwait
>
> --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, shafiq013@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Ejaz
> >
> > You killed all the argument by your first sentence. "A general
> > avoidance of religious arguments cannot necessarily prevent one from
> > touching upon the religion of those who have brought such disaster
> upon
> > us." How logical.
> >
> > Ethics says one should respect all religions. If anyone has brought
> any
> > disaster upon you, why to touch his religion. Above all his/her
> religion
> > has not taught to bring disaster upon you. If someone is hypocrite, is
> > visiting Mecca and all, before and after elections, he is to be blamed
> > and not his/her religion.
> >
> > I agree with you that "People are very sensitive about
> > religion:… but not the blind party activist". But I will add
> > here that it is not only the "blind party activist" but the
> > blind opponents also. The guy, desperately, to mock someone, knowingly
> > or unknowingly, has dragged in the religion. Had he not been that
> > desperate, would have not done so.
> >
> > I totally disagree that there are no religious people leading AL or
> BNP.
> > Only Allah knows the level of faith of a person. I and you are not to
> > judge this. Also religion cannot be monopolized by political parties
> > like Jamaat.
> >
> > Again my friend, Zia puja and the tawafs at Tungipara has nothing to
> do
> > with the religion of Islam or for that matter any other religion I
> know.
> > If somebody is doing it, he is to be blamed and not his religion.
> >
> > I am extremely sorry if I offended you but was curious to know why you
> > are explaining. The argument was started by some other gentleman.
> >
> > Shafiq Ahmad
> >
> > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "ezajur" Ezajur@ wrote:
> > >
> > > A general avoidance of religious arguments cannot necessarily
> prevent
> > > one from touching upon the religion of those who have brought such
> > > disaster upon us. It depends upon how bad one thinks the situation
> is.
> > > One need not be sensitive about the religious feelings of those who
> > practice
> > > one set of ethics in public life and espouse a different set of
> ethics
> > > on the prayer mat. Rather, the verbal mocking of their
> interpretation
> > of
> > > their faith is required in proportion to their mockery of the faith
> in
> > > public life.
> > >
> > > No on is mocking faith itself. And the words of the Quran are more
> > > messed upon by the visits of frauds to Shahjalal's grave before the
> > > election and Holy Mecca after the election. Those who are most
> > offended
> > > by the use of religious terminology against the ethical values of AL
> > and
> > > BNP are only blind activists of these parties.
> > >
> > > Religion is a very sensitive issue? Only for the religious. I see no
> > > religious people leading AL or BNP. The gravity of ritual prayer is
> > not
> > > enough to outweigh the gravity of ritual rottenness. People are very
> > > sensitive about religion:
> > >
> > > … but not the blind party activist
> > >
> > > And even if he is, he sure isn't one willing to die for something as
> > > noble as religious principle. He's too dumb and too rotten for that.
> > >
> > > When religion will really takes offence at the assault upon its very
> > > essence by our political culture you will know it my friend. For it
> > > will not reply by email or argument. It will not complain about the
> > use
> > > of a word in the Quran to make a point against the current religious
> > > hypocrisy of our leaders. Nor will the reply be defined by idiots
> who
> > > don't know how to use a firecracker.
> > >
> > > And so Zia puja and the tawafs at Tungipara continue.
> > >
> > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, shafiq013@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I believe you are coming to some senses now. When you don't tend
> to
> > > > stray into religious arguments then why mock someone, who ever
> > he/she
> > > > may be, using religion. Understand that religion is a very
> sensitive
> > > > issue, people do die for religion but your faith seems very
> strong.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I do remember Arabic is a language. Bismillah_____ are words
> of
> > > > Quran. If you are Muslim as you claim you are, even if the purpose
> > was
> > > > to create some satire, you should refrain from disfiguring the
> words
> > > of
> > > > Quran. (By the way bismilbangabandu....." does not mean "In the
> > > > name of Bangabandhu...."). But your faith seems very strong.
> > > >
> > > > Realize, this is a forum of very limited people. Not everyone in
> > > > Bangladesh and/or Bangladesh origin is readings all the postings
> in
> > > this
> > > > forum. People do ignore also considering it is coming from
> _______.
> > > You
> > > > are right majority of Muslims in Bangladesh have shown no comments
> > on
> > > > your writing. The reason you know because your faith seems very
> > > strong.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Shafiq Ahmad
> > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Emanur Rahman" emanur@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I tend not to stray into religious arguments because they are
> > > somewhat
> > > > > pointless. But as a Muslim I have to say that this is exemplary
> of
> > > why
> > > > I
> > > > > stay away from such arguments. The mention of Islam makes some
> > > people
> > > > > super-sensitive. Why is that? Is our faith that weak?
> > > > >
> > > > > Please remember that Arabic is a language and as such, many
> ideas
> > > can
> > > > be
> > > > > expressed in it including a translation of "In the name of
> > > > Bangabandhu...."
> > > > > - I don't suggest that my satirical construct is accurate!
> > > > >
> > > > > In any case, no disrespect of Islam was done in my piece. If
> > > anything
> > > > it
> > > > > should have appealed to Muslim sentiment to recognize and reject
> > > > idolatry
> > > > > when its spitting in their face. The fact that so many are
> unable
> > to
> > > > do so
> > > > > suggests that there is a lack of Muslims in Bangladesh....and if
> > not
> > > > > anything else, certainly they are not the majority!
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: alochona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:alochona@yahoogroups.com]
> > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of shafiq013@
> > > > > Sent: 04 February 2011 23:37
> > > > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Naming Dhaka as" Mujib Nagar"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Really!
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought Mismillah, Quran, prophet are part of a religion. The
> > > > religion of
> > > > > Islam.
> > > > >
> > > > > Op! May be I am little bit old to understand it. If the mission
> is
> > > to
> > > > > redicule someone, there are many other ways.
> > > > >
> > > > > So carry on. Carry on with your "very logical extrapolations."
> > > > >
> > > > > Shafiq Ahmad
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Emanur Rahman" emanur@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't think this is bringing in religion. Rather its a very
> a
> > > > > logical extrapolation of the way that many regard Bangabandhu.
> It
> > > > > demonstrates how ridiculous and perhaps dangerous this concept
> is.
> > > It
> > > > has
> > > > > allowed many to sanitise, rationalise, obscure and generally
> brush
> > > > under the
> > > > > carpet responsibility for the malaise that is our country today.
> > It
> > > > allows
> > > > > us to settle for less.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, the majority of Bangladeshis are Muslim.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ergo the majority of Bangladeshis should be offended by this
> > > worship
> > > > > and the immorality and corruption it breeds and feeds.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joy Bangla...?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Emanur Rahman | m. +447734567561 | e. emanur@
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: shafiq013@
> > > > > > Sender: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:54:22
> > > > > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Reply-To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Naming Dhaka as" Mujib Nagar"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mr. Eman
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You frustration is understood. May be you are sour for some
> > > personal
> > > > > > reasons. However, may I request you, very humbly, don't drag
> in
> > > > > > religion in your discussion, at the least in this way. Not
> only
> > it
> > > > > shows
> > > > > > your disrespect to religion of Islam but also indicates you
> have
> > > > > nothing
> > > > > > much to say. Even if you are not a Muslim (though your name
> > > suggests
> > > > > you
> > > > > > are), please show your respect to the religion of the majority
> > in
> > > > > > Bangladesh. You may hate Awami League or Sheikh Mujib for some
> > > (may
> > > > > be)
> > > > > > valid reasons. You have every right to express your viewpoint
> > but
> > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > really a shame to bring-in religion in this way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Shafiq Ahmad
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Emanur Rahman" emanur@
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree although the Buriganga with its effluence and waste
> > may
> > > be
> > > > > the
> > > > > > most appropriate choice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also propose that "Bismillah..." be removed from the
> > > > constitution
> > > > > > and replaced with "bismilbangabandu.....".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To seal the deal, all references to the Prophet should be
> > > removed
> > > > > from
> > > > > > a new and official BAL version of the Quran as neither he nor
> > the
> > > > > > Almighty had any contribution to the glorious independence
> war,
> > > you
> > > > > know
> > > > > > the Bangabandhu v Pakistan war where one man single handedly
> > > > defeated
> > > > > an
> > > > > > entire army.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Joy Bangla!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Emanur Rahman | m. +447734567561 | e. emanur@
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Sajjad Hossain shossain456@
> > > > > > > Sender: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:29:17
> > > > > > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Reply-To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Naming Dhaka as" Mujib Nagar"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In order to pay our indebtedness to Father of the Nation,
> > > > > Bangabondhu
> > > > > > Sheikh
> > > > > > > Mujibur Rahman I propose to change the name of Dhaka to
> "Mujib
> > > > > Nagar"
> > > > > > > and "Bay of Bengal" to "Bay of Bangabondhu".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any comments from the Alochoks?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > SH
> > > > > > > Toronto
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > [Disclaimer: ALOCHONA Management is not liable for information
> > > > contained in
> > > > > this message. The author takes full responsibility.] To
> > > > > unsubscribe/subscribe, send request to alochona-owner@!
> > > > > Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
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> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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