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Thursday, October 6, 2011

Re: [mukto-mona] Would India be better off without British rule?



British rule was bad, Muslim rule was worse.  The Mughals had to pay money to the Ottomans to keep them free from troubles.  No sensible historian should call them independent for the reason. While the earlier rulers did nothing significant, the British created educational institutions, railway, and made the infrastructure of modern India.

The Jallianwallabagh gathering was a religious one, and not made to protest the British rule, on which massacre was made by a stupid army commander named O' Dyer.  Gandhi became anti-British due to the Rawlatt act, and not due to the massacre.  What would the continuation of the Mughal rule mean for India?  The Mughals were nothing more than titular long before they collapsed.  The real rulers were the Marathis, known as Bargees in Bengal.  They were the worst thugs in the history of India.  J. K. Galbraith wrote, British rulers were lesser predators than the earlier rulers of India.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Pre-British history of India is not well-known. That is a blind-spot in the Indian history. We know intricate details about British era, but not much about Mughal era. It could be due to lack of documentation or resources at the time. British ruled many other parts of the world, including part of North America, which fought a full-fledged battle against British. How come they do not have such strong resentment against British? How come other parts of the world, ruled by British, also do not possess such sentiment against them as Indians do? Indians tend to blame everything on British rule. We blame British for our thinking, we blame British for our administrative bureaucracy, we blame British for our education system, judicial system, communication system, etc. etc.

 

I know what happened in 1919 during the Jallianwallabag massacre, in which British troops opened fire on unarmed civilians in a mass gathering, protesting British rule. This was the time when Gandhi started his anti-British movement, and that's the price we paid to force British out of India. How much price Indians paid during Mughal rule, especially during Babar and Awrangzeb? Anybody has a clue? That is not my point of discussion. My point is - would India be better off without British rule? Let's extrapolate continued Moghal rule for another 200 years and contrast it with the India left behind by British rulers, and analyze the situation. I will appreciate your inputs on this point.

 

Jiten Roy

--- On Wed, 10/5/11, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana For Lord Krishna - Logically Proved.
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 7:37 PM

 
JitenDa
When you believe that "I am thankful to British for their help in rebuilding India with their modern amenities, education systems, and judiciaries. Yes, they took some wealth back to England. Why not? You do not expect everything for free. Do you? After all, they came to India for business and occupied India for 200 years. They could have taken everything without investing a penny in India", I must say that Singh is right when he/she says that "our (please read 'your') thoughts are still controlled by British."
 
They did not do any thing out of love for the Indians. Every thing good we got was spillovers. Colonial exploitation was endless. Please reflect on what you have read from a typical history book. Think about indigo and poppy cultivation. Think how they put Tajmahal on auction to sell expensive stones after robbing all the gold and other precious metals and stones. Think about Jalianwalabag massacre, the way they retalitaed the sepoy mutiny, and countless other mischiefs. They did only that much as was necessay to carry out their business. Think about in what conditions they left India before running away.   
 
Your comment or love for British rule is not surprising as many among us cherish the same view. That's why it is really thought provoking and as such can be a good topic for debate.
 
Think about a scenario: British did not colonize India. Where would India stand today? Did India really need a colonial master to be what she is today? Could she be better?
 
Please, everybody, put ypour inputs.
 
Regards.
 
-Subimal 

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana For Lord Krishna - Logically Proved.
 
This is what I think – most of Tagore's writing is directed to an imaginary deity. He never revealed what it was. As far as I know -Tagore never mentioned any particular deity in his writings. He was, obviously, aware the existence of this extraordinary spirit, and knew that the source was within him, not anywhere else, meaning it did not come from the sky. He mostly communicated with this spirit through his poems. We all have our own spirit within ourselves. We feel its presence, but cannot give a form to it. That is the God, I believe.
 
This particular poem in question was about praising the King of Bharat, and you cannot depict a King without a chariot. Chariot was not the vehicle of Shree Krishna; he rode one with Arjun as the Charioteer during the Kurukhetra War. So, Chariot does not explain the fact. And conch was like the bugle in those days.
 
You said – your mental speculation is based on eternal truth. I think - the truth is – we don't know the truth.
 
You think India is still under British rule, because our thoughts are still controlled by British. Let's make a mental picture of India in 2011, without the British rule. Shall we? What do you see? I see a nation somewhere in 12th or 13th century. Let me know what you see. Therefore, if you ask me – I am thankful to British for their help in rebuilding India with their modern amenities, education systems, and judiciaries. Yes, they took some wealth back to England. Why not? You do not expect everything for free. Do you? After all, they came to India for business and occupied India for 200 years. They could have taken everything without investing a penny in India. It seems to me that your thoughts are blinded by propaganda, so you are unable to see the benefits of the British rule.
 
Now, about mythological characters – my thought process is not influence by British. When I was born, British left India. If you use rational thinking, you will see the same. Let me give you a specific example of a mythological character. I was watching television the other day, and they were showing Durga Puja festivities in Kolkata. In just one Puja, they spent 40 million rupees to build the deity, and, so far, they already spent about 100 million rupees for this Puja. As soon as this Puja will be over, the same TV station will start showing us starving people dying on the street of Kolkata. Do you think Durga-Ma will relieve their pain and suffering? Now, tell me - what else we could do with that money. How about homeless/destitute senior citizen centers or boarding school for orphans?  Don't you think that would please God more? I think so.
 
Anyway, these are my personal views, not influenced by anybody or anything. Thanks for initiating the discussion, and exchanging your thoughts.  
 
Jiten Roy
--- On Tue, 10/4/11, nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana For Lord Krishna - Logically Proved.
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 4, 2011, 11:11 AM

 
I have logically deduced it from Tagore's writings. Who else is an Eternal Charioteer, who possesses a conch. You are underestimating both Tagore and his works. It is mental speculation but it is based on the highest truths. If Tagore were a liar anybody can become a Tagore. It is truth that differentiates Tagore from the rest of the poets. British rule still exists in India and the beliefs that they imposed on us are very much alive and well supported by us.



--- On Mon, 10/3/11, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana For Lord Krishna - Logically Proved.
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 3, 2011, 8:25 PM

How do you know what Tagore thought when he wrote that song? He was a poet; he could be thinking any imaginary supernatural power, who he thought running Bharat. Krishna never ran Bharat. Did He? It's all guess and speculations. I think - British were right, most of the characters in the Hindu scriptures are mythological characters.
 
Jiten Roy --- On Mon, 10/3/11, nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana For Lord Krishna - Logically Proved.
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 3, 2011, 11:38 AM

 
Dear All,
Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana For Lord Krishna. Please read the short article at
For the complete article read it at 
Please forward this mail to as many people as you can. The British created the myth that our gods and goddesses are mythological characters. This is not true and our Vedic scriptures confirm it. First we must get this sorted out before we create a plan for 2020 in my opinion.
Regards,
Nihar Singh




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