Addressing a few more of QAR's statements:
QAR: "Specifically west Bengal is far from being fair to Muslims."
Response from SB: I am not sure what basis Mr. Rahman has to make this statement. West Bengal has many Muslims in positions of power. If in important jobs, Muslims are represented less than their percentage in the population, that is hardly unfair; because Muslims are indeed poorer when it comes to education is science and humanities. I know from my Dhaka University days, Hindu students were more in number at the top of their class compared to their number in the class; and that in spite of the emigration of a huge percentage of the better educated Hindus from East Bengal over quite a few decades. A fair system should reflect more Hindus in positions of power than their percentage in the overall population of Bangladesh today; and the country is doing opposite there. In West Bengal and in India overall, over many generations, Hindus have been more into modern education compared to the Muslims. It would be unfair to put a less qualified Muslim in a job over a better qualified Hindu. People like Mr. Rahman can help the Muslims more by asking them to get some real education, as opposed to keeping too much of their mind in the religion.
QAR: "Well I am not an Indian. Indians have to decide on that issue. As long people are treated fairly, I do not mind. Obviously a majority population have some influence in popular culture. When you watch Indian TV you hear more "Namaskars" than "Salaams" even when they are talking to Muslims. I do not mind as long people are being courteous and respectful to each other. Salaam means 'Peace" and it is a wonderful way to greet people. So if a Hindu wishes peace unto me by saying 'Shanti", I enjoy that!!" (This was on my query "Would you like the Indian constitution to begin with Om (the Hindu Trinity), and proclaim Hinduism as the country's state religion?")
Response from SB: The question was for Mr. Rahman. The bold-font first sentence in the response tells me that he did not want to answer the question. To me, "Om" to begin the constitution of the country would be terribly unfair to the non-Hindus of India, many of whom do not look at their God in multiple forms, many of whom do not believe in God. The constitution of the country is not 'popular culture'; it is the highest legal document of the country, it is supposed to be revered by all citizens. Greetings on TV shows and personal greetings are not the same as putting a religious symbol on the constitution. I myself greet Muslim elders with salam or adab. People like Mr. Rahman coming clean on this subject or not, they need to realize that making the state legally unfair to minority communities would make the state morally bankrupt, with a lot of bad consequences for the state, and for the majority community from within the majority community; and I do highlight within.
QAR: "I have not ask Bangladesh to be an "Islamic" country."
Response from SB: Thank you.
Sorry, I have to stop here now,
Sukhamaya Bain
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh Wins Freedom
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh Wins Freedom
Did I say "fairness" Mr. Rahman? No, I said "equal respect."
>>>>>>> Not a big difference. You have to give people "Equal status" to be fair. If I do not respect you and your background, I cannot be fair with you. If you really want to get into it, fairness is the NEXT step after 'Equal respect". Once you have equal respect, fairness is the result of it. So we are essentially saying similar things but you wanted to make an issue out of it!!
Why?
>>>>>>> I am passionate just like you passionately think religion is the mother of all problem. Communists used to think that way around 100 years ago and last century has shown us they were wrong!!
>>>>>>>>> Yes, if and when minority Indians ( Christian, Muslims, lower caste Hindus etc) are treated with fairness, automatically the qualified person will get the positions they deserve. Fairness ALSO means giving equal access to education, hospitals, transportation etc. India (Specifically west Bengal is far from being fair to Muslims).
2) Would you like the Indian constitution to begin with Om (the Hindu Trinity), and proclaim Hinduism as the country's state religion?
>>>>>>>>> Well I am not an Indian. Indians have to decide on that issue. As long people are treated fairly, I do not mind. Obviously a majority population have some influence in popular culture. When you watch Indian TV you hear more "Namaskars" than "Salaams" even when they are talking to Muslims. I do not mind as long people are being courteous and respectful to each other. Salaam means 'Peace" and it is a wonderful way to greet people. So if a Hindu wishes peace unto me by saying 'Shanti", I enjoy that!!
Just so you don't get carried away by reading some verses of the Qur'an I shared, I have not demanded to make Bangladesh an "Islamic" country. Personally it is NOT a priority to me. History teaches us when we "Impose" religion on people, it does not work. I want to see Muslims of Bangladesh have proper/accurate understanding of Islam. Lack of religious knowledge caused a lot of pain on Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Once we have some basic understanding of religions, we have live in a peaceful environment.
3) If Bangladesh had a right to be a Muslim country, what moral right did the country have to have Chittagong Hill Tracts to be a district of that country? Shouldn't they be allowed to form their own country just like Pakistan was formed in 1947? This is just one example. You can replace the CHT with any non-Muslim majority area of Bangladesh to come up with other examples. And where does this kind of divisions end?
Why?
I am extremely reluctant in debating/discussing with thoroughly brainwashed and irrational people, especially on the subject that has made them so. They are too passionate about whatever has washed their brain, rationality does not work there. I am very reluctant to take up a task, such as educating this kind people, in which I am almost sure of my failure.
>>>>>>> I am passionate just like you passionately think religion is the mother of all problem. Communists used to think that way around 100 years ago and last century has shown us they were wrong!!
1) Would you like to have the Hindus of India run India (because they are inthe majority there), and just treat the Muslims with fairness? Or would you like the individual Indian Muslims, based upon their qualifications, to be in positions of power and visibility in their homeland of centuries?
>>>>>>>>> Yes, if and when minority Indians ( Christian, Muslims, lower caste Hindus etc) are treated with fairness, automatically the qualified person will get the positions they deserve. Fairness ALSO means giving equal access to education, hospitals, transportation etc. India (Specifically west Bengal is far from being fair to Muslims).
2) Would you like the Indian constitution to begin with Om (the Hindu Trinity), and proclaim Hinduism as the country's state religion?
>>>>>>>>> Well I am not an Indian. Indians have to decide on that issue. As long people are treated fairly, I do not mind. Obviously a majority population have some influence in popular culture. When you watch Indian TV you hear more "Namaskars" than "Salaams" even when they are talking to Muslims. I do not mind as long people are being courteous and respectful to each other. Salaam means 'Peace" and it is a wonderful way to greet people. So if a Hindu wishes peace unto me by saying 'Shanti", I enjoy that!!
Just so you don't get carried away by reading some verses of the Qur'an I shared, I have not demanded to make Bangladesh an "Islamic" country. Personally it is NOT a priority to me. History teaches us when we "Impose" religion on people, it does not work. I want to see Muslims of Bangladesh have proper/accurate understanding of Islam. Lack of religious knowledge caused a lot of pain on Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Once we have some basic understanding of religions, we have live in a peaceful environment.
3) If Bangladesh had a right to be a Muslim country, what moral right did the country have to have Chittagong Hill Tracts to be a district of that country? Shouldn't they be allowed to form their own country just like Pakistan was formed in 1947? This is just one example. You can replace the CHT with any non-Muslim majority area of Bangladesh to come up with other examples. And where does this kind of divisions end?
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Bain first of all, I have not ask Bangladesh to be an "Islamic" country. An official announcement will not educate many fools walking all around us. We need to have solid secular and religious education for our population. In fact, not only Muslims most Hindus of Bangladesh cannot even explain their religion with proper reference from scriptures. So I am for better "Hindu" education for our Hindu population as well.
For now, I would say, believe what you like, but please try to bring some objectivity into your thoughts, so that at least you would not be too hateful to others that do not believe what you believe.
>>>>>>>>>> I have been fair and respectful to all members. However I have not seen any VALID reason to share ignorant people who just rant against religion without having a clue what they are talking about. I spend quite a bit of time to give reference to support what I say and everyone is welcome to verify everything. If I made any mistake, I am willing to learn from you and correct myself.
Having said that, I am every right disagree with you. It is a fundamental human right. Similarly you have every right to disagree with my opinions ( That is all I am sharing here!!). It would be nice if we learn few things from each other.
.And please try to realize that most people's so-called belief is mostly the result of brainwashing from the day they were born; almost 100% of them inherited their so-called belief from their family, with no unbiased exposure to other beliefs/rationalities
>>>>>>>>>> Well I AM ONE OF THOSE lucky ones, who examined his faith and even challenged it. At the end I have found answers to many questions that haunted me for most of my life ( The concept of free will and how that interact with predestination/fate in Islam is one such issue). The difference with me and some other members is I do not impose my belief or lack on belief like you just did ( please try to realize that most people's so-called belief is mostly the result of brainwashing).
So if you are humble enough to analyze your statement, you will see that, you are acting like one of those intolerant people you profess to dislike. If you "think" religion is a result of brain washing, that is YOUR belief ( Flawed in my opinion).
I'll be with you if you want to criticize how religion is taught ( Below standard Madrasas, Hindu temples etc), I'll agree with you BUT religion also deals with spirituality. And that is a whole different 'Talk show" my friend.....
I have one question for you. I have been only sharing and correcting some intolerant/inaccurate rants against religion. Which hopefully help members like yourself get authentic knowledge of Islam. I have NEVER preached Islam to anyone or disrespected other faiths. So why are you "Offended" by my posts?
Wishing you an "Open mind".
---Original Message-----
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 29, 2011 4:46 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh Wins Freedom
For now, I would say, believe what you like, but please try to bring some objectivity into your thoughts, so that at least you would not be too hateful to others that do not believe what you believe.
>>>>>>>>>> I have been fair and respectful to all members. However I have not seen any VALID reason to share ignorant people who just rant against religion without having a clue what they are talking about. I spend quite a bit of time to give reference to support what I say and everyone is welcome to verify everything. If I made any mistake, I am willing to learn from you and correct myself.
Having said that, I am every right disagree with you. It is a fundamental human right. Similarly you have every right to disagree with my opinions ( That is all I am sharing here!!). It would be nice if we learn few things from each other.
.And please try to realize that most people's so-called belief is mostly the result of brainwashing from the day they were born; almost 100% of them inherited their so-called belief from their family, with no unbiased exposure to other beliefs/rationalities
>>>>>>>>>> Well I AM ONE OF THOSE lucky ones, who examined his faith and even challenged it. At the end I have found answers to many questions that haunted me for most of my life ( The concept of free will and how that interact with predestination/fate in Islam is one such issue). The difference with me and some other members is I do not impose my belief or lack on belief like you just did ( please try to realize that most people's so-called belief is mostly the result of brainwashing).
So if you are humble enough to analyze your statement, you will see that, you are acting like one of those intolerant people you profess to dislike. If you "think" religion is a result of brain washing, that is YOUR belief ( Flawed in my opinion).
I'll be with you if you want to criticize how religion is taught ( Below standard Madrasas, Hindu temples etc), I'll agree with you BUT religion also deals with spirituality. And that is a whole different 'Talk show" my friend.....
I have one question for you. I have been only sharing and correcting some intolerant/inaccurate rants against religion. Which hopefully help members like yourself get authentic knowledge of Islam. I have NEVER preached Islam to anyone or disrespected other faiths. So why are you "Offended" by my posts?
Wishing you an "Open mind".
---Original Message-----
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 29, 2011 4:46 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh Wins Freedom
Did I say "fairness" Mr. Rahman? No, I said "equal respect."
I am extremely reluctant in debating/discussing with thoroughly brainwashed and irrational people, especially on the subject that has made them so. They are too passionate about whatever has washed their brain, rationality does not work there. I am very reluctant to take up a task, such as educating this kind people, in which I am almost sure of my failure.
So, let me not talk about your religion, Mr. Rahman. Let me just ask you a few simple common sense questions.
1) Would you like to have the Hindus of India run India (because they are inthe majority there), and just treat the Muslims with fairness? Or would you like the individual Indian Muslims, based upon their qualifications, to be in positions of power and visibility in their homeland of centuries?
2) Would you like the Indian constitution to begin with Om (the Hindu Trinity), and proclaim Hinduism as the country's state religion?
3) If Bangladesh had a right to be a Muslim country, what moral right did the country have to have Chittagong Hill Tracts to be a district of that country? Shouldn't they be allowed to form their own country just like Pakistan was formed in 1947? This is just one example. You can replace the CHT with any non-Muslim majority area of Bangladesh to come up with other examples. And where does this kind of divisions end?
If I had more time, I probably would have had some interest in talking religions with you. But unfortunately I do not have much time to waste. For now, I would say, believe what you like, but please try to bring some objectivity into your thoughts, so that at least you would not be too hateful to others that do not believe what you believe. .And please try to realize that most people's so-called belief is mostly the result of brainwashing from the day they were born; almost 100% of them inherited their so-called belief from their family, with no unbiased exposure to other beliefs/rationalities
Wish you a free mind/brain.
Sukhamaya Bain
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh Wins Freedom
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh Wins Freedom
In any case, Jogen Mondal being foolish or not, the Hindus that he represented, and the other Hindus and non-Hindus that he did not necessarily represent, had a birthright on the land. For Bangladesh to be an honorable and decent nation, it necessarily has to separate Islam from the business of the state, and treat all religious groups with equal respect.
>>>>>>> While I agree with the spirit of the statement you made ( Hindus have a birth right to be treated with fairness in Bangladesh). I don't think Islam is the problem here. Rather some greedy Muslims. It may amuse you to know that, Allah (SWT) even spoke about hypocrites who speak about Allah (SWT) and Islam but ONLY work for his/her own interest in several places.
My "Personal" opinion is Islam has a solution for all people ( Even those who do not practice Islam). Over the history Islam has shown how they can be protected without sacrificing ideals of Islam. Let me share a verse from The noble Qur'an.............................................
My "Personal" opinion is Islam has a solution for all people ( Even those who do not practice Islam). Over the history Islam has shown how they can be protected without sacrificing ideals of Islam. Let me share a verse from The noble Qur'an.............................................
__._,_.___
