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Thursday, January 26, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly



I had already read these two verses, and a few more, in the Koran, and commented that "the religion asks its followers to treat slaves with fairness, and considers freeing a slave to be a good deed." Mr. Q. A. Rahman said the same thing below, diluting it in a full page of gibberish.
 
Let me comment here on Mr. Mustafizur Rahman's statement also. He wrote "Rewards for freeing a slave are numerous in Hadith." Let me just trust that he read the Hadith and knows this for a fact.
 
Having agreed with both the Rahmans, let me ask them; is it adequate for a civilized world to treat the slaves fairly, to consider freeing a slave to be good deed, and to provide some rewards for freeing a slave?
 
To me, there is no such thing as "treating a slave fairly." Once you brand someone as a slave, you are already too unfair to him/her. Reward and praise for freeing a slave is not enough for a decent world; we needed abolition of slavery. Today slavery is prohibited in all the respectable societies and countries of the world. As the human civilization progresses, I have no doubt, more and more of the unfairness and injustices will be gone from the world.
 
As for religions, the bottom line is, if an honest reading of your religious books allows you to respect the religion, please do so. But do not claim it to be perfect, as you should be able to see from this particular example.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly

 
I think I can add couple of cents to this dialogue.

To start with it is nor right to expect Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to ban slavery overnight. Let me offer an example.

All of us can agree that child labor is a horrible thing for countries like Bangladesh, India and Pakistan. HOWEVER if you have to cancel it overnight, it would cause more pain to those children and their families unless it is a slow gradual process.

Islam is a religion of middle path and a practical religion (If you understand it properly). So it was clearly against making free people into slaves. The Qur'an says...

It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and each and every act of obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkin (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and gives the Zakât, and who fulfill their covenant when they make it, and who are As-Sâbirin (the patient ones, etc.) in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of fighting (during the battles). Such are the people of the truth and they are Al­Muttaqûn (pious).

                                                                                                                     [ Source: The Noble Qur'ân Al-Baqarah 2:177 ]


and Islam motivated it's followers to get out of the system of slavery.


Allâh will not punish you for what is uninentional in your oaths, but He will punish you for your deliberate oaths; for its expiation (a deliberate oath) feed ten Masâkin (poor persons), on a scale of the average of that with which you feed your own families; or clothe them; or manumit a slave. But whosoever cannot afford (that), then he should fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths when you have sworn. And protect your oaths (i.e. do not swear much). Thus Allâh make clear to you His Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) that you may be grateful.

[ Source: The Noble Qur'ân An-Nur 2:221 ]

It also ordered it's followers to treat slaves fairly.

I saw Abu Dhar Al-Ghifari wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a cloak. We asked him about that (i.e. how both were wearing similar cloaks). He replied, "Once I abused a man and he complained of me to the Prophet. The Prophet (peace be upon him) asked me, 'Did you abuse him by slighting his mother?' He added, 'Your slaves are your brethren upon whom Allah has given you authority. So, if one has one's brethren under one's control, one should feed them with the like of what one eats and clothe them with the like of what one wears. You should not overburden them with what they cannot bear, and if you do so, help them (in their hard job).' "

[ Source: Hadith - Sahih Al-Bukhari 3.721, Narrated Al Marur bin Suwaid ]

I think most of us know the story of Bilal (RA). By asking him to call people to prayer, prophet Muhammad (PBUH) elevated this dark skinned ex-slave in front of Arabs. These are revolutionary steps when you understand all these were done over 1400 years ago!!

I'll share a little from a German scholar on Islam

Annemarie Schimmel in "Islam: An Introduction", p. 67
Slavery was not abolished by the Koran, but believers are constantly admonished to treat their slaves well. In case of illness a slave has to be looked after and well cared for. To manumit [free] a slave is highly meritorious; the slave can ransom himself by paying some of the money he has earned while conducting his own business. Only children of slaves or non-Muslim prisoners of war can become slaves, never a freeborn Muslim; therefore slavery is theoretically doomed to disappear with the expansion of Islam. The entire history of Islam proves that slaves could occupy any office, and many former military slaves, usually recruited from among the Central Asian Turks, became military leaders and often even rulers as in eastern Iran, India (the Slave Dynasty of Delhi), and medieval Egypt (the Mamluks). Eunuchs too served in important capacities, not only as the guardians of the women's quarters, but also in high administrative and military positions.

Hope this will help members to understand Islamic point of view on this topic.


Shalom!!


-----Original Message-----
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 3:40 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly

 
I suppose the position of Islam on slavery was not the best example for "following the essence of what is good in a religion"; it was an OK example. My reading of the Koran actually tells me that the religion asks its followers to treat slaves with fairness, and considers freeing a slave to be a good deed. It does not condemn slavery, nor does it provide any clear cut reward for freeing a slave.
 
However, that does not change my concept of how to follow religions properly or correctly. I do not think following anything in any religion that is more than a thousand years old should be done literally. Even the good things in them should be judged for their essence, and adapted to fit the good common senses of the civilized human minds.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>; Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: Mukto-mona's new policy in effect

Presentation of a relevant fact does not have to be professional or scholarly.

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@...>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
 
Muhammad himself was not rich enough to possess any slave.  However, after marriage, he owned a few.  The most prominent of them was Bilal who became the first muezzin in Islam. History also records him punishing another bunch of slaves who escaped with death.  I wonder if Subimal Chakravarty found this article 'scholarly'.

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 8:19 AM
Subject: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly

To me, following any religion "correctly" would be to follow the essence of what is good in it, dump what is bad in it, and not waste too much time trying to prove something in it to be good when it actually looks pretty bad. I do not have the patience to hear the context in which something hateful was uttered in a religious book. Hateful words in a religious book do necessarily make that religion bad. To me, the context does not matter, because a hateful utterance is very likely to make the average follower hateful; the average follower is likely to have no time or wisdom to see the context. Also because most human beings should not have too much time to spend on religions; they need to keep using, developing and improving science and technology, without which even the religious fanatics would not have the quality of life that they are enjoying.
 
Here is an example of what I call "following the essence of what is good in religions." Mohammad's preaching of Islam had praise and rewards for people who freed slaves; he did not abolish slavery through his religion. To me, that was great in the 6th century; and I can respect him for that. But now, we are not as primitive as the 6th century people, we can do better than that. We not only abolish slavery, we treat all innocent humans with respect and dignity; we even afford a good deal of dignified treatment to criminals.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190



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