For Mr. Rahman:
1. I meant subsequent suras became more progressive. Karen Armstrong as example mentioned one. Initially suras were being addressed to men. Some important pointed that out to Muhammed. From that point on suras were addressed to both men and women. I hope Armstrong has read the Koran well.
2. There is a quote from a sura (quoted in one of the earlier messages) which teaches to kill an infidel. But Muhammed's instruction on how to deal with Christians is great. See it somewhere below. I find these two conflicting.
3. That Islam has been hijaked is not my invention.
4. Examples of insanity in the name of Islam: burning churches, bombing mosques to kill musollis, killing Kadianis, stoning a woman to death for alleged adultery, and see more examples in previous Talibani Afghanistan. These are being done by people indoctrinate into a version of Islam which, according to you, is not probably the true Islam. I think that is what has been termed "hijacked Islam" by Karen Armstrong.
For Dr. Roy:
By mistake I wrote "holy" for "unholy". I wanted to say, "The Geeta is not only unholy to you, to you it is also not worth reading." Sorry for the typo.
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:18 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:18 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
Thanks for opinions shared here. I'll try to offer some clarifications to mentioned "Concerns" about religion (Here we are talking about Islam!).
This problem arises out of conflicting teachings
This problem arises out of conflicting teachings
>>>>>>>>>> If there is anything seems "Conflicting" to you, simply bring it up and we can discuss it. over time the Koranic teachings became more and more liberal and progressive. >>>>>>>>>> Actually not even one word from the holy Qur'an was "Changed" over 1400+ years. I think you are talking about how Qur'an is being interpreted became more "Liberal". I agree with it. One good example of it would be about taking pictures. Many Muslim scholars used to think taking pictures was strictly prohibited because it would lead to worshiping that person (As we see in communist countries, Christians etc). However for last few decades, they understood pictures are mostly used to "IDENTIFY" a person (In passports, national ID cards etc) in most cases and fatwas were given allowing taking pictures. Another positive sign I see that Muslims became more tolerant of themselves. In Bangladesh I used to see people judging others harshly over smallest differences of offering prayers (Namaj/salaat). Now a days you can offer salat/namaj without a cap in any masjid. Which was unthinkable even twenty years ago. Why do we see all the insanity despite all the great teachings out there? >>>>>>>> As per my observation two mains reason would be 1) Lack of education about Islam. 2) Politicians abusing Islam to attain their political goals. Of course there are more reasons but these are two main reasons. Has it now been hijacked by the fanatics?
>>>>>>>>>> Isn't it obvious? I think fanatics (Blind followers) hijacked "Souls of religions" in most parts of the world. You look at India and some statements coming out of it, you look at the USA (How conservatives are taking over the media!), you look at Afghanistan, Pakistan or Israel.
This hijacking is not limited to one religion rather modern media and communication tools make it easy to act of it. Not complaining just explaining. :-)
are there any loopholes in the entire system that make abuses or commitment of crimes in the name of Islam easy?
>>>>>>>>>>> Well not only Islam. This goes for all religions and even in communist countries.
The main ingredients of "Abuse/loopholes" is our greed for power and money. NO where in communism it says, you HAVE to hand down powers to your son ONLY. But communist leader of North Korea did just that. In this respect, they are NO different than Saudi Arabia!!
No where in Islam it says, you have to give power to a nation to ONE family only. Same goes for our own political parties. No matter you support BNP, BAL, Shammobadi party (Leftist), you will see sons and daughters of party leaders are holding posts of power. Where in our constitution it gave that power to our party leaders?
It is our own human shortcomings that "Corrupts" religion like Islam and make it look bad. That is why I stay away from supporting any political platforms and try to stick to authentic teachings of Islam as much as possible. For the same reason, I try my best to supply references for the readers.
they are not holy; are they?
>>>>>>>>>> Actually most books are holy if one does not molest the verses. A very liberal verse of the Qur'an (Surah Tauba 9:5) were abused by Islamophobes and they certainly twisted the meaning of the verse by taking one verse out of context.
Now if one "CHOSE" to ignore the book and want to run with one verse to validate their rage against religion, it is NOT the fault of the book. It is a problem of that person!!
I believe all scriptures have the same problem,
>>>>>>>>> Everyone has the right to have an opinion. As long it is based on solid scholarship, it is credible.
so you have to use your human judgments to pick which ones to follow.
>>>>>>>>> I like this idea a lot. If anyone want to analyze any dispassionate analysis of any religion, it is a good place to start. Our own Bengali philosophers of talked about our "Bibek" (Conscious) in judging right from wrong.
Islam simply puts these in a structured form. For me that, "Structure" makes me a better person. I am selfish, so as long it helps me, I like it.
Take it easy. :-)
Shalom!
>>>>>>>>>> Isn't it obvious? I think fanatics (Blind followers) hijacked "Souls of religions" in most parts of the world. You look at India and some statements coming out of it, you look at the USA (How conservatives are taking over the media!), you look at Afghanistan, Pakistan or Israel.
This hijacking is not limited to one religion rather modern media and communication tools make it easy to act of it. Not complaining just explaining. :-)
are there any loopholes in the entire system that make abuses or commitment of crimes in the name of Islam easy?
>>>>>>>>>>> Well not only Islam. This goes for all religions and even in communist countries.
The main ingredients of "Abuse/loopholes" is our greed for power and money. NO where in communism it says, you HAVE to hand down powers to your son ONLY. But communist leader of North Korea did just that. In this respect, they are NO different than Saudi Arabia!!
No where in Islam it says, you have to give power to a nation to ONE family only. Same goes for our own political parties. No matter you support BNP, BAL, Shammobadi party (Leftist), you will see sons and daughters of party leaders are holding posts of power. Where in our constitution it gave that power to our party leaders?
It is our own human shortcomings that "Corrupts" religion like Islam and make it look bad. That is why I stay away from supporting any political platforms and try to stick to authentic teachings of Islam as much as possible. For the same reason, I try my best to supply references for the readers.
they are not holy; are they?
>>>>>>>>>> Actually most books are holy if one does not molest the verses. A very liberal verse of the Qur'an (Surah Tauba 9:5) were abused by Islamophobes and they certainly twisted the meaning of the verse by taking one verse out of context.
Now if one "CHOSE" to ignore the book and want to run with one verse to validate their rage against religion, it is NOT the fault of the book. It is a problem of that person!!
I believe all scriptures have the same problem,
>>>>>>>>> Everyone has the right to have an opinion. As long it is based on solid scholarship, it is credible.
so you have to use your human judgments to pick which ones to follow.
>>>>>>>>> I like this idea a lot. If anyone want to analyze any dispassionate analysis of any religion, it is a good place to start. Our own Bengali philosophers of talked about our "Bibek" (Conscious) in judging right from wrong.
Islam simply puts these in a structured form. For me that, "Structure" makes me a better person. I am selfish, so as long it helps me, I like it.
Take it easy. :-)
Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Feb 16, 2012 7:37 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
People consider something so noble and holy, yet we cannot accept or practice everything in there. Isn't that a problem? If we have to pick and choose certain instructions from these books, they are not holy; are they? I believe all scriptures have the same problem, so you have to use your human judgments to pick which ones to follow. It's nice to see that our good old human judgment rules the day; I am not complaining. Jiten Roy
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