Maybe SOME religious leaders of our sub-continent at times was not able to capture the "Spirit of Islam" in some cases. They focused too much into rituals while losing sight of "Spirituality". We Muslims are "FREE" to prolong our prostration (Sajda/sijda/sujud) as long we wish. It is a position that requires us to remove our "Ego" from us and "Submit" to our Maker, so devout Muslims do that (Prolong Sujud) all over the world (Including many sub-continent Muslims).
Islam gives us a "Structure" which ALSO allows us some freedom within it. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was a fundamentalist in the best sense of the word. The fundamentals of Islam are wonderful and made me a better person.
It feels like some Muslims are too serious about dressing nice to a congregation but not so serious to be nice to his/her neighbors. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said, if my neighbor is not safe from me, I cannot be a Muslim. He again said if my neighbor goes to sleep hungry and I had plenty to eat, I cannot consider myself a good Muslim. There are many such "Orders". One example..
[ Source: Sayings of Muhammad (PBUH)Narrated in Mosnad Ahmad, #7354, and Al-Tirmizi, #1162 ]
Common Muslims are more aware of their rights but often forget their "Responsibilities". Which creates problems for Muslims and non-Muslims alike. A true fundamentalist would try his/her best to represent all of Islam. Cherry picking is done by hypocrites and they are the worst kind of human beings.
Shalom!
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:46 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bengali culture and Islam
Sent from my iPhone
Values preached to him should be universal as much as possible.
Sage Manu's "Dharmashastra" is no more a complete code of life. The world has changed a lot and it is constantly changing. Our sages had long and clear vision. But there was a limit to how far they could see.
>>>>>>>> I have disagree with you slightly. Not with the spirit of the comment but how Islam is "Unique" in some aspects. As per Islamic point of view, Islam was revealed for all of humanity (All other religious scriptures of the world was revealed to specific nation/tribe/race etc). The "Complete code of life" in Islam discusses all aspects of life and the lessons are as relevant as it was 1400 years ago.
As I said many times, Bangladeshi average Muslims are not aware of the tolerant and social face of Islam. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) went to camel races, played with his grand children, had a sense of humor. But in our sub-continent we rarely talk about it.
Once prophet (PBUH) was praying and leading his congregation. His stayed too long in prostration (Sujud/sajda/sijda). When asked about it, he said his grand children were playing and sat on his shoulder. He wanted them to enjoy it. So he stayed in prostration a bit longer. Sadly most mosques of our sub-continent do not allow women and discourage children from attending. How will you get an educated generation of Muslims if their mothers are not allowed and they are not welcomed in it?
Islam does not require us to leave our families or communities for the sake of religion. By religious rituals we continuously "Purify" our souls.
Therefore, comparing Islam with Hinduism or Buddhism is difficult. While we have many similarities, there are some differences in point of views.
At the same time, I think our common culture and tradition will not encourage to put half naked women on a stage during nobo Borsho festivities. Member Hannan was sharing his concern about that part.
There is a genuine need for good family friendly "Fun" events in Bangladesh and I was hoping "Nobo Borsho" festivities would be there to fill up the gap. Which would encourage our new generations to get exposed to authentic "Bangla culture". Authentic customs, food, music as well. Our baul Music is rich in spirituality and I want more of our new generations to embrace Baul music than hard rock/rap ( I call it crap) culture.
We are facing "Global invasion" on our culture and traditions. So it is important to promote our own traditions to our families.
I don't want to be another "Coconut Shahib" or father of "Coconut Shahib" [ It is a north American joke about people of our sub-continent, if you do not know, I'll explain in next post].
Take care.
Shalom!
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Apr 18, 2012 9:37 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bengali culture and Islam
Hindu culture in Kerala is not exactly same as Hindu culture in Bengal
>>>>>>>>> You are right to some extend. Even in Islam the sub-cultures are different based on region. HOWEVER Islam gave us some universal laws. Here in that respect Islam is different than Hindu "Tradition". I call Hindu "Culture" a more like "Tradition" than religion.
Because in classic concept of religion, it is well structured. For example Judaism has dress codes similar to Islam. Historical Christians used to have dress closer to practicing Muslims. Christianity has "Evolved" and gotten more like Hinduism now a days. So you will see US churches talking about a "Black Jesus" in Afro-American areas, you will see image of Jesus in Mexico making it look like he was Hispanic and "Classic" Euro Christians adopted Jesus to their own standard (Blue eyed blond guy!!). I had a lively discussion with a devout Christian from south about that. I said Jesus was a Jew (As per Bible) and he was from Palestine (His birth place is part of Palestine), so he probably looked more like an Arab Palestinian than a blond guy from Germany!!
Logically one cannot accept "Local culture" and claim to practice an authentic religion for everything.
Hinduism varies a great deal from regions. Even Hindus who migrated in western world slowly but surely changed some of their traditional practices (Ganges is far away, pundits are scares etc).
As per Islamic concept, our Maker gave us a COMPLETE code of life.Unlike most prominent religions it did spell out religious views in a very structured way.
I have to agree with member Hanan that, some of what goes on during "Nobo Borsho" goes against traditional Islamic ideals. Islam does not prohibit us to accept local cultures but practicing Muslims know the limits given by our Maker. In Finland nudity is well accepted in that society. Even incest type relations is quite common in that culture. A practicing Muslim will never embrace those aspects of Finish "Culture". Maybe an Iraqi Arab will change his Arab garbs for suits but it is unimaginable for a "Practicing Muslim" to forgo commandments by Allah (SWT).
So what member Roy and Subimal said is partly correct but as per Islamic ideals we have our limits in how much we can accept of any culture.
What I want to say I'd that a religion must not be too restrictive; it must not spoon feed what to wear and what not to eat or drink. It should rather focus on the values that are universal.
>>>>>>>>Those who embrace a concept of deity, they expect religions to tell them to say what they can eat and what is not allowed to eat. I understand some of us are not fan of such restrictions. However without those 'Restrictions" or guidelines religions lose it's own identity and universality as well.
That is why you will see people from Pakistan play very good Cricket but they don't drink beer (At least the practicing ones!) like Australians or Brits.
In other words for Muslims, we may enjoy some fanfare in moderation but don't expect any Muslim with some sense to embrace IPL cheer leaders type of dance for "Nobo Borsho" anytime soon. ;-)
I do not see any problem with Rabindra Sangits and classic bangla cultural aspect in some cases. "Anandaloke mongol aloke birajo satya sundoro...." has been a favorite of mine for a long time.
As long people understand and respect sensitivities of "Practicing Muslims" in such areas, we can get along nicely.
Shalom!
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Apr 16, 2012 7:25 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] Bengali culture and Islam
Sent from my iPhone
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Friday, April 20, 2012
Re: [mukto-mona] Bengali culture and Islam
Again a little explanation is needed, According to authentic Islamic point of view, a fundamentalist is NOT a bad person. Fundamentals of Islam are sound and upholds our universal values (My opinion after looking into it!).
The most perfect of the believers in faith are the best of them in morals. And the best among them are those who are best to their wives.
-----Original Message-----
Muhammad had a longer 'sijda' as he wanted to enjoy the playfulness of his grandson. That is what I am talking about. The religion could not micromanage him. He valued his passion more than mechanically following the ritual. This is what I call freedom of a human soul. This proves that Muhammad himself was not a 'fundamentalist' as he deviated from
the strict rules of rituals to enjoy the association of his beloved grandson even during the 'most serious' moments in a believer's life.
I think we are in agreement in a broader sense. A practicing Muslim and a practicing Hindu will find little difference in their views. They have similar concerns as well.
>>>>>> Yes. We spend too much time to amplify our differences, which is counter productive.
-----Original Message-----
There are religion-specific cultural differences for sure. But they are very minor differences. Bengali Hindu culture and Bengali Mislim culture are almost synonymous. That is reflected in our literature, music, performance arts, arts and paintings, food habits, and above all in our national aspirations. We belong to a common heritage and have a common tradition.
A practicing Muslim and a practicing Hindu have a common Bengali culture and that that is reflected in our common and joint cultural programs.
Most of what you have said refers to differences in religious belief systems. They are not cultural matters. They exist in every religion.
I believe in freedom of a human being (soul). Nothing should be coercive to it---neither a state nor a religion. The human must not be micromanaged. It needs broader guidelines though and sense of common goals as well for peaceful coexistence and advancement. Values preached to him should be universal as much as possible. Sage Manu's "Dharmashastra" is no more a complete code of life. The world has changed a lot and it is constantly changing. Our sages had long and clear vision. But there was a limit to how far they could see. That's why we need new thoughts and at least new interpretations.
Sent from my iPhone
-----Original Message-----
Culture is a vast thing. 'Indecency' is subjective. If culture means how a group leads its life in general--what the group members eat and how they eat, what they wear, what games they play, what music they listen to, how they deal with their fellow group members, and so on, then it must be mostly local. A religion has almost nothing to do about it. Hindu culture in Kerala is not exactly same as Hindu culture in Bengal. It is more appropriate to say culture in Kerala or culture in Bengal without tying it to a particular religion. There are subcultures within each culture. But we are talking about our national culture in general which must be all inclusive. Culture evolves over time in an interactive way. What I want to say I'd that a religion must not be too restrictive; it must not spoon feed what to wear and what not to eat or drink. It should rather focus on the values that are universal.
Hannan Saheb,
Thank you for saying that the so called "Muslim-Culture" has Arabian cultural influence. You are an open minded religious person, who I can talk to for hours. May I respectfully present a few more points in this regard?
You said: "Muslim culture vary from place to place partly as Islam allows acceptance of Urf or local custom if it is not against Tauhid and does not contain Shirk and Fahisha ( indecency)."
When you say "…if it is not against Tauhid and does not contain Shirk and Fahisha ( indecency)" you are measuring against STANDARDs that came from a different region (Arabia), and you are trying to comply with it. You are also assuming that this is the bottom line. Before you do so please think about the following scenario – let's assume Prophet and writers
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