Thanks. I like your temperament and always enjoy arguing with you. You follow the principle of disagreeing respectfully. You get irritated and intolerant when you are incapable of counter an argument with valid points. That is exactly what happens with the dictators---communist, non-communist, or religious.
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
Judging by the "Quality" of opinions here and level of hostility against opinions in "Mukto-Mona", it is not a bad thing. Unless people are more tolerant of 'Different" opinions, I see they still expect other people to be "More tolerant". Which is the contradiction to start with.
So let us try to be more open minded of different opinions and let people share their view like true "Mukto-Mona". I think it will be a good thing.
Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, May 8, 2012 5:41 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Partition: Panorama of the Indian history and Human tragedies
My personal observation is that - Mr. Subimal Chakraborty wants to be fair and balanced. To achieve this goal, he often dilutes the truth. He rarely takes a strong position on anything, possibly, out of apprehension that someone might get offended by his statements. To me - he usually gives statements, not opinions.
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Partition: Panorama of the Indian history and Human tragedies
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, May 7, 2012, 6:20 PM
Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty's comments below have two irrational and untenable balancing acts.His point #3 sounds like the complete reversal of the Hindu-Muslim ratios in the cities and towns of Pakistan was due to the Hindus leaving their home voluntarily, and that most of them were businessmen, teachers, doctors and lawyers.The facts were: 1) Pakistan was hostile to the Hindus, that is why the Hindus left involuntarily; and 2) most of the Hindus (95% of the population) in a city like Karachi could not have been businessmen, teachers, doctors and lawyers; Pakistan has uprooted all kinds of Hindus from their home of centuries.The first part of his point #4 sounds too disingenuous. He really needs to stop his absurd attempts of finding similar trends in India. From India, the Muslim migration to Pakistan happened only during the turbulent time of the partition. India has not been hostile to its Muslims over the last 65 years, and the migration of Muslims from India to Pakistan stopped shortly after the partition in 1947. The Muslim fanatics of Bangladesh, many of them pose as secular, talk about communal riots in India, really to justify what they have been doing in Pakistan and Bangladesh; what they do not talk about is that the system in India has kept the Muslims of that land strong enough even to start riots against the Hindus.As for the educated people among the so-called schedule caste Hindu people in Bangladesh, Mr. Chakrabarty needs to learn that from among that class of people the ones that migrated to India got the opportunity to produce many more PhDs, doctors, engineers, etc. All indications are that they would have done far better without the partition of India in 1947. In spite of their foolish decision to join Pakistan in 1947, India even had a problem of unduly favoring the underclass, due to which many so-called high-caste Hindus would seek fraudulent means of getting schedule caste certificates for themselves, in order to get admitted to professional schools and in order to get jobs.Nobody said, 'independence of Bangladesh has done us nothing'. Under any measurement, Bangladesh has been better than Pakistan for all kinds of its citizens. Bangladesh has improved the life of the Muslims of the land tremendously. Even the Hindus, in spite of the hatred and discrimination against them in Bangladesh, have done many times better than what could be expected had the land remained a part of Pakistan. However, as Mr. Chakrabarty seems to have pointed out (not very clearly), so far Bangladesh has failed to deliver the expectations of reductions of disparity, communalism and persecution against the non-Muslims of the land.Sukhamaya Bain===========================================================From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Partition: Panorama of the Indian history andhHuman tragedies,
1. Jinnah was stubborn, Nehru was impatient, and the British were in a hurry and left almost every thing in a mess. Gandhi was helpless and resorted to seclusion. And the greatest blunder in the history of India occurred. Immediately after partition, India was on the verge of being a failed state. Soldiers of South Indian orgin had to be deployed to contain the communal violence that erupted. Good thing is that India survived the turmoil thanks to the secular, efficient, and visionary elements in the party. Gandhi's assassination turned out to be a boon as Hindu fanatics got cornered in Indian politics for a while.2. I agree that Hindu caste-ism had a lot to do with the panoramic change in India's political geography and demography. Jagajivan Ram wanted to defer independence of India by a decade. Jogen Mondal became the trump card for Muslim League and thereby created his own political death and personal tragedy (a good account has been provided in a recent historical novel titled "Barishaler Jogen Mondal" (about a 1100-page book) by a prominent WB writer named Debesh Roy.3. As regards complete reversal of Hindu-Muslim population ratios in Pakistan, I think it was generally true for for all cities and towns. The small town I was raised in had only a handful of Muslims (all professionals) even in late fifties. The reasons include the fact that businessmen, teachers, doctors, lawyeras, etc. came from caste Hindus. They started leaving for India creating a big vacuum.4. Similar trends could be found in the Indian states (Bihar, Nagaland, etc.) which have indigenous people as the majority. That is one of the fruits of independence that less privileged sections of the population enjoyed. I do not have the proper statistics. But I see a huge number of educated people with highest degrees including PH<
