"Act your age! please, please grow up and look at the problems of the people, their livelihood, their quotidian struggle against injustice, economic inequalities, imperialism and hegemonism. Please walk with the people who produce, who toil, who create wealth and stop peering beneath their pants. "
It sounds like Karl Marx's theory has never been applied before in any parts of the world. People have tried and failed miserably. Whether we do all right things, certain religious groups always come forward and claim that they have the solution for the masses. How do we deal with that? Just ignore those people and work for the people, who might be aligning with the scoundrels without realizing the danger? Everything should on the table for discussion as far as I am concerned.
I find Mr. Bose is basically a naive idealist with the same old ideas that are great for academicians to dwell on but has not brought any tangible firework for the society. He would love to ignore the "biggest animal" in the room when we know the animal has been breathing on our necks for few thousands years. It should taken by its neck and put in the right place! Thank you.
-SD
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Can we discuss religion freely?
1. I know what you mean: when you take care of the fundamental needs of common people and build an exploitation-free society, religion does not remain a dominant political force any more.
But can you give me even one example of a historical period when religion was not talked about (praised and critiqued as well) by great thinkers? Religion is such a powerful concept and institution (sometimes all consuming) that it cannot and should not be ignored. We have seen how India was divided on the basis of religion. And we are still suffering. We have also seen the rise of the fundamentalist Hindutwabadis. Look around, you will see a lot more.
2. Why should we be in denial and assume that the threats from religious fundamentalists and fanatics will go away naturally?
Mukto-mona is a forum consisting of educated (I mean good degree holders) people. Many of the members are about to retire or already retired. Most of them probably live in comfort zones in all respects. This has provided them with almost unlimited leisure that they can afford to utilize to engage in "intellectual" exercises. Many of them are not ready at all to do so. But they do it as they have nothing else to do. They do it with confidence which comes from, for example, his Ph.D in civil engineering. Being inspired by Dr. Shoumyo Dasgupta, I had to write an article titled "Antorjaale kothokota: jaale bondee bibek o mukto chinta" for Ogrobeej that was edited by him a few years ago. I will never tell my less educated religious relatives and friends that I am an atheist. But Mukto-mona is a forum where I dare do this. But nobody can complain that I have ever shown any kind of profanity in any of my writings.
3. My understanding is that religion is man made and has been made to serve the interests of the selected groups of a society. In that it can be exploitative. Then why not to critique it if we can critique any other human innovations or thoughts?
4. I am also aware of the concern expressed by you and Dr. Farida Majid that discussions about religion involve the risk of further dividing the society on communal basis and also strengthening the hands of the fundamentalist and fanatic political forces.But we have a problem. The forum is visited by people of different kinds. Many come here with hidden agenda and those are reflected in their posts although they try to be fair and real free thinkers.
5. Finally, I will repeat what I have said before: a person with hidden agenda---communalist, political, or ideological--- has no moral rights to talk against some one else's religion.
From: Soumitra Bose <soumitrabose@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Can we discuss religion freely?
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Can we discuss religion freely?
A country, her culture, the civilization can never become mature and can never gain respects from the world till it comes out the filthy and slimy cocoon of religious debates. It is very unfortunate when debate about religion is dumped throughout the world Bangladeshi intellectuals [ a tiny and yet vocal minority though] still cracks their head on it. It is disparaging! Act your age! please, please grow up and look at the problems of the people, their livelihood, their quotidian struggle against injustice, economic inequalities, imperialism and hegemonism. Please walk with the people who produce, who toil, who create wealth and stop peering beneath their pants.
From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 3:14 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Can we discuss religion freely?
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 3:14 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Can we discuss religion freely?
It is not easy to make sense with cave-dwellers, especially the kind that hangs upside down from the roof of the cave. The visionary power of these people are often known as "blind as a bat." I don't expect Jiten Roy to know idiomatic English. I only wish he was a little more honest. "Where do you see "Islam-bashing" in my statement", charges Jiten Roy. The question I should be asking: Where did he "see" that I saw Islam-bashing in his statement? He did not see it. He is just blindly casting a stone in the dark. Or, just plain lying. I charged mukto-mona for Islam bashing for years, pleading in the beginning (in the early 1992-93, when activities of Nirmul Committee were in full swing) that this kind of crude attacks on the religion of Islam is going to be counter-productive to our stand against the Jamaat. It will only encourage Jamaat to equate themselves with Islam. I got blasted by the Islam-bashers calling me all kinds of ugly names. No logic, no appeal to scientific thinking or citation of history of the humanities -- nothing worked to change their obstinate view. That was then. {People curious can look up my article "Talibanization of the Cyberspace by the Crypto-Islamists." Quotation from this article is used in the biography of Beatles George Harrison, "And the Guitar Gently Weeps."} And this is now. Due to his ignorance of the RSS/BJP anti-Muslim propaganda literature circulated at communal riot-instigating rallies in India, Jiten Roy does not realize that a lot of what he puts forth echoes that language. An example of what I mean is right here on this page -- in the lines he has written -- about Muslims consisting of "poor and backward population" and they being exploited by the fundamentalists, and somehow that is the cause of "faster growth of Muslim population of the world." Even a deaf, mute and 'blind as a bat' will have difficulty following the logic of poor backward Muslim population being converted to Islam by the fundamentalists and thereby causing Islam to be the fastest growing religion in the world. Curiously, there is no opinion or view on SECULARISM. The reason is nether Q. Rahman nor Jiten Roy are secular despite their masks. They are both communal to the core. The word "religion" has many meanings in many contexts. Here in this page the word 'religion' connotes communalism. Farida Majid
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com From: jnrsr53@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:15:02 -0700 Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Can we discuss religion freely?
Where do you see "Islam-bashing" in my statement, which I made after Q. Rahman boasted that Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth? In my last response, I have pointed out some of the reasons why Islam is growing faster than Christianity. One reason I gave was the Christian population growth deceleration due to various reasons, and then I said faster growing religion also brings faster growing problems. Let me explain why. Faster growth in Islam is due to faster growth in Muslim population in the world. Unfortunately, most of the growth is happening in the poor and backward population. Islamists/fundamentalists are taking advantage of all these poor and desperate people. This is causing enormous problem everywhere else, including Islamic countries, like Pakistan, Indonesia, etc. In USA, highest rate of conversion to Islam is in the Prison. Q. Rahman is right when he said that it's not the religion - it's the people, who make troubles using religion. I concur with him completely - but, the fact that - those trouble makers are growing faster rate also with the faster growth of the religion. That was my point. In fact, you are also talking about the same problem. I do not expect blanket statement like "Islam Bashing" from you. If you do so, you will be no different from Mohiuddin Anwar, who went as far as saying that critics are "Enemy of Islam." Jiten Roy --- On Wed, 6/20/12, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:
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