Assumption becomes faith when it is considered as truth, without any evidence. Scientists often assume (hypothesize) something, then investigate about its validity or truth. If they fail to validate, and yet believe in it, that becomes a faith. There is another kind of assumption, in which a model is assumed which helps explain some unknown phenomena. If someone thinks that the model is the truth, and asks others to accept it - it becomes his faith. God and eternity are such phenomenological models to explain some unknowns. A scientist can assume these concepts if they help him understand those unknowns. Models can be physical structures or mathematical expressions. Therefore, if models have physical structures, they can be understood in a physical sense, as the concept of Gods and Goddesses in idols. Fear of eternity/unknown is always with us. Such fears keep us in line. Some people can easily overcome fear of eternity or unknown, and can do certain things that most others can't imagine. Jiten Roy --- On Sun, 12/30/12, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 9:13 AM
Fear of Unknown eternity? My humble question: Can a scientist believe in eternity in the physical sense? What is this fear about? Is it about any punishment that you may have to face? If this is so, then what are the remedies? Good works? Don't all these boil down to a concept of faith?
Sent from my iPhone | I don't know if my belief in God is circumstantial or what; it could be due to the fear of unknown eternity also. But, one thing I know for sure – I have no fear of God, if you are asking about that. I try to do everything right; that's all. Some people believe in almighty God, yet always claim to be victims of aggression from others. Anyway, I don't dwell on the existence of God or its form, because I find the concept as a very powerful psychological sanctuary. The existence of God is less important when it's a conceptual entity. So, I leave it alone, and do not feel the need to abandon the idea of God. Instead, I feel strongly that - we should abandon the concept of religion altogether, which is nothing but exploitation of the image of God to serve the petty interests of religion-peddlers on this earth. It's also not about which scientist believes in what; they are as clueless about God as any one of us. It's really a matter of personal choice. Many people do not need the concept of God, that's fine - as long as they do the right things.
Jiten Roy
--- On Fri, 12/28/12, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, December 28, 2012, 11:06 AM
Thanks. Virtually I don't see any difference between your "prayer" and a non-believer's "wish" for some thing. Fear factor probably is absent in your belief, I suppose. You would know better.
Any way, recently Higgs (predictor of the so called God particle/Goddam particle or technically called Higgs-Boson), despite he himself being a non-believer has called Richard Dawkins a fundamentalist. Dawkins himself has said that an evangelical and he himself can be matched, but the former would not revise his belief in theological theories in creationism while he will do so with the new scientific and experimental evidences.
The other day we saw the results of a survey according to which many great scientists have admitted to be believers. It is hard if not impossible to overcome the belief that has been in our psyche for centuries. Are yourself not a victim of this?
Interestingly the Nobel Laureate physicist who coined the term "God particle" preferred the name "Goddam particle" but the latter was not acceptable to the publisher of the book he wrote.
Sent from my iPhone | " How do you use your God? Meditate on Him? If yes, how? Any rituals? And why do you need it any way? Do you pray? And if yes, what are your prayers? I mean what do you pray for?"
I use God whenever I need it for psychological support. I do not pray without specific need, and there is no special language or verse for prayer.
Someone was about to die of lung cancer. When the news spread, people arranged a mass-prayer session in the a temple. They asked me to join the prayer, and I did. About 200 people gathered in the temple. Everybody was praying for his recovery from this dreadful disease. I was hoping that at least someone in the crowd will be able to draw the attention of God through his/her prayer, and a miracle will occur. Two days later, I heard the news of his death. In my view - prayer is for psychological help only. Those who attended prayer felt that they have done something for that person at the time of his need; that helped them console themselves after his death. Jiten Roy
--- On Wed, 12/26/12, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012, 9:04 AM
By the word "creed" Jung may have meant what is commonly known as "organized religion". Even those who belong to an organized religion may have quite different images or ideas of God. My father and mother, for example, had different constructs of God. While my father's connection to a God was mostly mystical and spiritual, my mother's one was a mixture of mysticism and prayers for some mundane benefits. May I ask you some personal questions? How do you use your God? Meditate on Him? If yes, how? Any rituals? And why do you need it any way? Do you pray? And if yes, what are your prayers? I mean what do you pray for? I know even atheists pray or wish for things. Sent from my iPhone | "But how do you distinguish this customized God from a God, for example, a specific religion? And why should one prefer a customized God to a God that he has acquired through social training?" Well, I said make your own God because - the image of God that comes through the social training comes with a baggage, called religion. And, religions are divisive phenomena, to all in our societies, but not God, at least to most people. Jiten Roy
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2012, 10:44 AM
So you are saying that religions and all the related rituals, etc. are man made. I agree. Is God man made or no? Are there not many Gods like religions? Yes, you have given the answer already: create your own God. But how do you distinguish this customized God from a God, for example, a specific religion? And why should one prefer a customized God to a God that he has acquired through social training? Now let me talk about Jung. I do not think Jung had a conventional Christian God. Despite the risk involved in providing isolated quotes, I will make some quotes from Jung whenever I will deem it necessary. Jung distinguishes clearly between "creed" and "religion". "A creed gives expression to a definite colletive belief, whereas the word religion expresses a subjective relationship to a certain metaphysical, extramundane factors." "----- the meaning and purpose of religion lie in the relationship of the individual to God (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) or to the path of salvation and liberation (Buddhism)." Looks like he is O.K with a religion with God or without God. But he is advocate of infinite freedom of an individual. He does not seem to approve of the intervention of the state (example, a communist state) or a creed (example, represented by a church) in the world of an individual. My comments are based on my understanding of the content of a 113-page small but not necessarily an easy book by Jung (ideas came when he was 83.) This seems to be a wonderful book although we may not agree with him on every assertion he made.
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
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