I thoroughly dispute Jiten Roy's contention that the Jewish holocaust victims were "hate-crimes of Nazi soldiers". They were, without doubt, the victims of State organised mass murder under the Nazi Party. They were definitely not stray victims of "hate-crimes" of individual Nazi soldiers. To say so is the denial of history.
Similarly, Bengali liberation war victims were not from "hate-crimes" of Pakistani soldiers. The Army carried out the government policy to eliminate Bengali uprising at that time. That cannot be called the "hate-crimes". I get the feeling that Jiten Roy does not understand the meaning of "hate-crime".
Now let me come back to the casualty figure of the liberation war. As Kamal Das pointed out that the claimed casualty of 3 million in Bangladesh is comparable to the casualty figure of just over 3 million in 20 years of Vietnam war. Nobody needs to be reminded of the ferocity of the Vietnam war over 20 year period. Bangladesh had nothing like that in the short period of 9 months. There were no battle between the armies, no full scale war, no bombing, no tank battle. There were only skirmishes here and there between the Bangladeshi fighters supported by Indian soldiers and Pakistani soldiers. The majority of the casualty was non-war casualty - Pakistani soldiers killing innocent civilians to maintain law and order in the cities; Al-Badr and other gangs killing innocent Bangladeshis and Bangladeshis killing Biharis. Pakistani soldiers did not fight any battle and surrendered lock, stock and barrel on 14 Dec 1971.
For the sake of history, we need to establish facts; not exaggerated, totally ludicrous figure. I had been told by Mr Abdur Razzak himself (who was Sheikh Mujibur Rahman's right hand man and most trusted lieutenant) that when Sheikh Mujibur Rahman returned from Pakistani prison in 1972, Razzak told him that 3 lakh people died in the liberation war. Mujibur Rahman translated that to 3 million when making a statement to the foreign journalists. Even that figure of 3 lakhs was highly exaggerated. However, it would have been appropriate for the government to correct the mistake and give a realistic figure and everything would have been forgotten. Failure to do that, the country is lumbered with a gigantic lie from someone no less important than the 'father of the nation'. The psychology that has developed since then is that if 3 million figure can get accepted, then anything we say and repeat few time will come to be accepted. This is the blatant failure of national and personal accountability. I rest my case.
- AR
From: "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 2 July 2014, 1:50
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona]
Most important point to remember is that, just like Jewish holocaust victims were casualty of hate-crimes of Nazi soldiers during the World War II, these are Bengali holocaust victims, casualty of hate crimes of Pakistani soldiers during the war of independence.
Actual casualty figures of the war of independence both sides were only a few, because Pakistani soldiers never fought a war; they all surrendered.
Jiten Roy
On Tuesday, July 1, 2014 12:29 AM, "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Three million debate ain't over. After assertion of such casualty, a red carpet welcome was given to Bhutto. Nine months of liberation war could not have a comparative casualty of twenty year long Vietnam War.
Sent from my iPad
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 30, 2014, at 9:36 PM, "Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I do not see any connection between going after criminal bastards and three millions deaths. Even thirty thousands would be too many. Why the numbers are so important when we do not even know the exact numbers of Razakars of that time? The deaths could be even more than three millions? Why that is not a possibility considering us being the champions of inaccuracy and impreciseness? I think three millions debate is over. Lets stick to the number and move on.-SD"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-SeussOn Monday, June 30, 2014 3:48 AM, "ANISUR RAHMAN anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Mr Mannan,Your endeavour to expose those "jaroj" or 'bastard' people in Bangladesh is admirable and I hope that you succeed. I am with you. But my request would be that whatever you say should be based on facts - pure and undiluted, not heresy or gossip. If you resort to massaging facts, however small, to make the case stronger, then people will reject the whole story and think that this story is one of "those".A concrete example of "massaging facts" is Sheikh Mujibur Rahman's statement that 3 million people died in Bangladesh liberation war. Actual, impartial and evidence based account is between 30,000 and 40,000 deaths. When Sheikh Mujibur Rahman came back to Bangladesh from Pakistan in 1972, he was told by his party propagandists that 3 laks died, which was itself an exaggeration by about 10 times. Then Sheikh Mujibur Rahman at his interview with the foreign journalists stated that 3 million people died. Now Ministers, Prime Ministers etc all quote this figure and foreign journalists give a wry smile and think that these are the faces liars and cheats.- ARFrom: "Abdul Mannan mannanabdul56@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 29 June 2014, 15:27
Subject: [mukto-mona]
শিক্ষিত, বিত্তবান, পদস্থদের মধ্যে অবৈধ অর্থবিত্ত, পদ-পদবী অর্জনের জন্য যে নির্লজ্জতা, নির্মমতা, নিষ্ঠুরতা, নীচতা দেখা যায়, প্রচুর সম্পদ থাকা সত্বেও, আমাদের দেশের আরও অনেক উন্নতির সম্ভাবনা থাকা সত্বেও এসব নির্লজ্জ, নির্মম, নিষ্ঠুর, নীচদের জন্য তা সম্ভব হচ্ছেনা। "জারজ" শব্দটি শ্রুতিকটু, অশ্লীল হলেও হুমায়ুন আহমদসহ সুনীল গঙ্গোপাধ্যায় গং আরও অনেক রগড় বাক্য-শব্দ ব্যবহার করেছেন। একমাত্র "জারজ" না হলে এরা এত নির্লজ্জ, নির্মম, নিষ্ঠুর, নীচ হতে পারেনা। আমরা এদের মুখোশ উম্মোচনকারী। সমাজে, রাজনীতিতে, ব্যবসায়, সরকারী-বেসরকারী চাকুরীতে কারা জারজ তা আমরা পর্যায়ক্রমে প্রকাশ করব। দেশের স্বার্থে আশাকরি আপনারা আমাদের পাশে থাকবেন। ধন্যবাদ।Posted by: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
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