Re: [mukto-mona]

Dr. Roy

You just exaggerated the number of refugees by a factor of about ten.  The total population of East Pakistan was approximately 75 millions.  You could not have 100 million refugees out of them, and to have three million dead you had to kill one in twenty five persons.  At the height of the liberation war, I myself walked for a week to cross the border and never met a person in uniform or coffin! Distortion of facts has made us butt of jokes across the world.

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On Jul 5, 2014, at 9:25 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Since Pakistani Army did not face enormous confrontation while they were marching through East Pakistan, they could win hearts and minds of Bangalis, if they wanted to, without much bloodshed. In fact, East Pakistan was running smoothly under their control, until Indian Army launched attacks. How would India justify interfering with the internal affairs of Pakistan without 100 million refugees there? Presence of millions of refugees in India justified attacking East Pakistan on the ground that refugees have destabilized Indian internal safety and security.

Jiten Roy

On Friday, July 4, 2014 1:51 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

The Hindu card played by the occupation army was part of the India card that the Pakistani regimes had been playing since the very beginning. The sole objective of this game had always been to counter the Bengali nationalism. The Pakistani regimes always raised a wall between the Bengalis of the then East Pakistan and the Bengalis of Poschimbongo. During the occupation period the Hindus were targeted to derail the Bengali liberation war. There was absolutely no reason that the occupation army would have been good to the Bengalis. The only way they could be good was to smoothly transfer power which they were determined not to do. Hence the liberation war and efforts to suppress it at any cost was inevitable. 

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On Jul 2, 2014, at 7:02 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Yes, Dr. Rahman, I understand the definition of hate-crime: it's a crime committed out of hatred alone, nothing else. Since holocaust occurred out of hatred for Jews, nothing else, it was obviously a hate-crime. Whether perpetrator was the state or soldiers is not important.

As you know, Pakistani soldiers were asking everybody - "Malauns Kaha" and they were looking for Hindu-families all over Bangladesh. As you know, Hindus alone were not seeking cessation. So, what did lead them hunt for Hindus? Obviously, it was their hatred for Hindus. Whether that was as per state policy or not is immaterial.

In short, Pakistani-hatred for Hindus led to the exodus of millions of Hindus into India. That hatred, in fact, legalized Indian involvement in the conflict, and made Bangladesh a reality.

I strongly believe, Pakistan would have been intact today had Pakistani soldiers expressed love, instead of hatred, towards Bangalis after they arrive in the East Pakistan. As you know, Pakistani soldiers did not face direct confrontation at all after they arrive. So, there was no need for any of those atrocities, especially against Hindus. Their hatred for Hindus was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Jiten Roy

On Wednesday, July 2, 2014 5:00 AM, "ANISUR RAHMAN anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I thoroughly dispute Jiten Roy's contention that the Jewish holocaust victims were "hate-crimes of Nazi soldiers". They were, without doubt, the victims of State organised mass murder under the Nazi Party. They were definitely not stray victims of "hate-crimes" of individual Nazi soldiers. To say so is the denial of history.

Similarly, Bengali liberation war victims were not from "hate-crimes" of Pakistani soldiers. The Army carried out the government policy to eliminate Bengali uprising at that time. That cannot be called the "hate-crimes". I get the feeling that Jiten Roy does not understand the meaning of "hate-crime".

Now let me come back to the casualty figure of the liberation war. As Kamal Das pointed out that the claimed casualty of 3 million in Bangladesh is comparable to the casualty figure of just over 3 million in 20 years of Vietnam war. Nobody needs to be reminded of the ferocity of the Vietnam war over 20 year period. Bangladesh had nothing like that in the short period of 9 months. There were no battle between the armies, no full scale war, no bombing, no tank battle. There were only skirmishes here and there between the Bangladeshi fighters supported by Indian soldiers and Pakistani soldiers. The majority of the casualty was non-war casualty - Pakistani soldiers killing innocent civilians to maintain law and order in the cities; Al-Badr and other gangs killing innocent Bangladeshis and Bangladeshis killing Biharis. Pakistani soldiers did not fight any battle and surrendered lock, stock and barrel on 14 Dec 1971.  

For the sake of history, we need to establish facts; not exaggerated, totally ludicrous figure. I had been told by Mr Abdur Razzak himself (who was Sheikh Mujibur Rahman's right hand man and most trusted lieutenant) that when Sheikh Mujibur Rahman returned from Pakistani prison in 1972, Razzak told him that 3 lakh people died in the liberation war. Mujibur Rahman translated that to 3 million when making a statement to the foreign journalists. Even that figure of 3 lakhs was highly exaggerated. However, it would have been appropriate for the government to correct the mistake and give a realistic figure and everything would have been forgotten. Failure to do that, the country is lumbered with a gigantic lie from someone no less important than the 'father of the nation'. The psychology that has developed since then is that if 3 million figure can get accepted, then anything we say and repeat few time will come to be accepted. This is the blatant failure of national and personal accountability. I rest my case. 

- AR

From: "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 2 July 2014, 1:50
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona]

 

Most important point to remember is that, just like Jewish holocaust victims were casualty of hate-crimes of Nazi soldiers during the World War II, these are Bengali holocaust victims, casualty of hate crimes of Pakistani soldiers during the war of independence. 

Actual casualty figures of the war of independence both sides were only a few, because Pakistani soldiers never fought a war; they all surrendered.

Jiten Roy

On Tuesday, July 1, 2014 12:29 AM, "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <