I have not said a single word against Modi. Rather I have praised him. It is not Jiten Roy, it is Subimal Chakrabarty who first praised Modi for his comment on building toilets. I have praised his pragmatism. Only thing I have said is that he has the RSS roots. RSS leaders will not sit idle. They have their own Hindutvabadi agenda. That's why I have said that Indians have to watch how he plays the balancing game. I wish his democratic, pragmatic, and pluralistic approach would not be failed by the right wing parties that supported him in winning election.
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 13, 2014, at 6:47 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
People who talk about radical religious views of Prime Minister Modi either do not know much about him or try to feed us the international propaganda talking-points against him. Mr. Chakraborty is just feeding us that propaganda again.On the contrary, Modi is displaying his sage-like images. He a life-long bachelor; has no family. If I remember correctly, he used to sell tea from a tea-stall on the footpath. His life-experience is all from the street, not from within a mansion. As a result, he could not inherit political career from his family-inheritance, like many other politicians in the subcontinent. That may be the reason why he is so pragmatic in his political views. I remember his election stump-speeches, where he used to tell Indians to build more toilets, not temples, which tells me - he cannot be a religious bigot. But, that's not enough for some people. I think Modi will disappoint Mr. Chakraborty also.Jiten Roy
From: "Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions
How do you measure what is wrong and what is right? What Indian idea did he kill since he became PM? What would be your ideal state? India is not a totalitarian state that it should have one mantra and one standard of nationalism? Are you not falling into in your own trap? Modi got a mandate to rule his country in a democratic election. Let him carry out his tenure, please. As long as he performs for his people, nobody would care whether he is/was an extreme or moderate Hindu. If he were an extreme Hindu, would that make Pakistanis and Bangladeshis any better secular liberals? Human social progress does not occur in the vacuum. The man is a product of subcontinent and he had seen everything during his six decades of life.On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 6:15 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I have no problem in being proud of Vedic literature because of its literary beauty. I have no problem in being proud of India's contribution to the field of math, astronomy, and chemistry. It has been said that india invented zero and contributed to trigonometry and arithmetic. Aryabhatta, Shustuta, Kanada, etc. are some of the names that we all should be proud of. I am saying all this from the top of my head.But I have problem in being proud of some thing nonsense like Vedic math. Why math has to be mixed with Vedas to infuse false pride! Vedas are great by themselves and so is Indian contribution to math.Changing constitution to make it worse is obviously wrong. But it is not less wrong to distort the meaning of nationalism. Modi is a tactful leader. I will say he is dynamic too. But we must not forget his RSS roots and that RSS is divisive. There will always be backward pull. Indians have to watch how Modi plays the balancing game.
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On Nov 11, 2014, at 8:26 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:I do not see any problem people taking pride of their past. Some people thrive on it and some would abuse that pride. That is a human nature. Are we not proud of our own ancestry?Modi is not a fool, he is a politician. He knows how to play the cards. As long as he finds glory in Vedic scripture, why this should be a problem? If he can materialize some of Vedic fantasies, why that would be a problem? Has he changed Indian constitution? Has he stopped Indian science explorations? Has anybody being persecuted for blasphemy? If not, the guy should be given a chance to serve his country..-SD"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-SeussOn Tuesday, November 11, 2014 8:42 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
"I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math."Look, Pal, Modi's message was for the people, like you, who are ashamed to take pride of their own heritages. When I tried to remind that point, some of you started to attack me without understanding my message. Someone even accused me of 'falsification,' which turned out to be meant for 'exaggeration.'As I said before, Indus Valley civilization is one of the oldest civilizations in the world (5000 years old). When I tried to remind that heritage, you try to find excuses to demean them. Vedic era is ~3500 years old, it has brought so much enlightenment to people in that region, which people are still making use of. But, instead of being proud of them, you are bringing Chinese, Greek, and English literatures. This was the point Modi was making.I know, if the same talk was given by President Kalam or Mukharjee, we would not be talking about it. So, it was not the message, but the messenger, that was wrong.Look, when someone counter comments against mine, I look forward to learn something from it; this is just waste of time talking about something that should be obvious to all of you.Jiten Roy
From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions
Ancient Indian scholars or (sages if you like the word) did real research on astronomy. That is what we need to talk about. I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math.
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On Nov 10, 2014, at 6:12 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Well, Dr. Roy, I can accept that the imaginations of the Vedic stories were richer than their time. But when you suggest, for example, that "in-depth knowledge of astronomy ...... are all in the scriptural books", I find it more than exaggeration; it is falsification. BTW: Did Ganesh's body try to reject the elephant's head, as we see in modern transplant cases; or there was no such problem due to his mother's blessings? Now, don't get me wrong; I have been weak enough to think that the blessings of my parents did/could bring good things in my life; but I am not weak enough to think that such blessings by themselves could change established science.
Talking about some people being ahead of their time, I am willing to accept that Mohammad also was one such human. The problem that I see with the Muslims now is that too many of them proclaim his messages to be adequate for today's world.
Sukhamaya Bain
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/9/14, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 10:02 PM
Dr. Bain, the problem with your
comments, most of the time,
is that you think out of context. Here, you
are judging Vedic stories against
modern science fiction stories. Vedic stories were at least
a few thousand
years old. How much
scientific sophistication do you expect from the people in
that era? Did you
give a thought where rest of the world was when Vedic
stories were written?
When you read something from a thousand
year old
books, you need to think with reference to that era. Just
trashing them without careful consideration, you will
do injustice to those books.
Do you know how Ganesh got his elephant
head? If
you do, you can compare that to the modern day
face-transplant. Many Vedic stories
deal with space-travel and space-warfare. If I remember
correctly, Megnad used to fight from behind the cloud. Have
you thought about how did those
fictional ideas came to them in those days? Now, compare the
standard of the Vedic people
with that of the people in the rest of the world in those
days. Only then, you will
realize how sophisticated they were. You found some falsifications in my
comments. What are those false statements? If you tell
them, may be I can correct myself.
Jiten Roy
From: "Sukhamaya
Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"
<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November
9, 2014 7:04 PM
Subject: Re:
[mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions
Here are
my comments on the quoted comments (below) by Dr. Jiten
Roy.
I see too much of conjecture, exaggeration, imagination and
falsification in Dr. Roy's comments. With the same kinds
of practice, religious people of other shades have been
making the claims that all kinds of knowledge can be found
in their religious books. The way I see them, the stories in
the Hindu scriptures are like poor quality science fictions,
based upon imagination. Compared to those, many of the
modern science fictions are based upon a good deal of
methodical thoughts, and upon technologies that actually
have been proven to work. That is why a lot of real science
and technology have their roots in science fictions.
BTW: As for Modi/BJP being a threat to secularism, people
need to realize that Modi/BJP is not like the fools/fanatics
that throw stones at the devil after praying to their God.
Even with their oxymoron of Hindutwa, they are a lot more
rational people than those who believe in the dogmatic
religions.
Sukhamaya Bain
==============================================================
From:
"Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"
<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To:
"mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com"
<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent:
Saturday, 8 November 2014, 22:37
..........................."Indian civilization, in the
Vedic era, was much advanced than any other in the world.
Descriptions of inter-galactic movement through space-ship,
warfare with the most advanced weapons (airplanes, rockets,
missiles, etc.), in-depth knowledge of astronomy, and
astrology are all in the scriptural books, which depicted
the advancements of knowledge in those
days."...............................................
__._,_.___
