A Muslim or Hindu atheist sounds very much contradictory to me. But, given the sensitivity towards one's family traditions, we should not be too strict to uphold the principle?
I would not bring here nomenclature like real Hindu and unreal Hindu. Those are just absurdities.
Nayan Chatterjee is just another avatar of multi-faceted, Shahdhat Hussaini. That man would never confront us to defend any of his reckless opinions.. Let the troll have his cheap fun.
On Monday, April 27, 2015 10:08 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Let me deviate slightly. How should we distinguish between a 'real Hindu' and an 'unreal Hindu'? No doubt it is a tough question and there is no definite answer to it. Hinduism is not quite the same thing to an orthodox Hindu as to a liberal Hindu. A liberal Hindu will not like to be called an 'unreal' Hindu by an orthodox Hindu. In this sense the question does not make any sense. I see belief or faith as a spectrum having an atheist on one end and a fundamentalist on the other end. This is true for believers in all religions.
The alleged fragility seems to be new phenomenon. Many believers have become over-defensive. That's why Mr. Nayan Chatterjee (sounds like a Hindu or a convert Islam like Ismail Benejee) has cautioned the Muslims.
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On Apr 27, 2015, at 8:24 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Nor do you have all the knowledge and expertise in this important issue. If you say, you believe in innocuous social traditions of Muslims and you are an atheist, that might not be that much contradictory because you did not have a choice when you were born. Now, if you go to an Islamic expert and ask him/her whether you could be a faithful Muslim and Atheist simultaneously, I bet, the answer would be a negative one. Now, if you think, you belong to a new category of Muslim , then you better explain and elaborate. Most Muslims would see a contradiction here.We are not here to respect anybody' s religious integrity or atheistic views. Anything and everything should be open for discussion, dissection and analysis. If we start respecting people for his/her relative religiousness or other damn mental problems, the forum should be moderated with very strict principle. But Muktomona is not such forum. I simply do not care who gets hurt here in this forum. I care for good arguments. If people are sensitive about certain issues, they should stay on the sideline and enjoy their serene lives with their loved ones. Thank you.On Sunday, April 26, 2015 4:16 PM, "ANISUR RAHMAN anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
As usual, SuBain claims to have ultimate answers to all questions one may ask. He thinks he is the repository of all knowledge and everybody else must follow his pronouncements. In that respect, his mindset is no different than the 'fundamentalists', whom I despise.First of all, he branded Muslims as either 'real Muslims' or 'unreal Muslims'. On what authority or religious expertise, he lays such egregious claim he did not say. In my last email, I politely pointed out that such demarcation is unhelpful and insulting. But it did not get into his small head. Then he said in this email that being a born Muslim (as I am) and holding an atheistic outlook is a fraud. Such a definitive statement on the Muslim-ness of a Muslim person by someone not holding the same religion is deceitful and vulgar, particularly from a bigoted person like SuBain.- AROn Sunday, 26 April 2015, 19:46, "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Gentlemen (Subimal Chakrabarty and Anisur Rahman), there is no doubt that Bishwabharati and Bharateshwari Homes are great institutions, and that their kind of institutions would enrich Bangladesh. We could all stop right there.The problem that I pointed out was with Mr. Chakrabarty's two questions and one answer, "Will it be a threat to Islam? Not at all. Will it negatively affect Muslim culture?" Mr. Chakrabarty needs to read the Islamic holy books before answering like "Not at all." Otherwise he should stop asking these kinds of questions and giving baseless answers.BTW, Dr. Rahman, whether I label people or not is immaterial. Do you really think that someone could be a Muslim and an atheist at the same time? I do not think so. To me, one would be a fraud if he/she claimed to be both at the same time; and I would be more scared of him/her than of a religious Muslim.SuBain===================================On Saturday, April 25, 2015 10:27 PM, "subimal chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I don't understand how Shantiniketan style institute will be more dangerous than an institute like the Dhaka University where all kinds of knowledge including the theory of evolution are imparted to the students.As I understand Mr. Nayan Chatterjee is using this issue to fulfill his anti-Indian agenda. Looks like he is still haunted by pre-1971 Pakistan Muslim League kind of politics. This irrational anti-Indianism or fear of cultural invasion by Hindu majority india has never died completely.Mr. Chatterjee has mentioned how Rejwana has been 'brainwashed' by Shantiniketan. It is so silly. Even in Poschimbongo there has always been debates on Rabindrasangeet should be sung most perfectly. Debabrata Biswas was a victim of this perfectionist movement and he called himself 'bratya'.
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On Apr 25, 2015, at 9:46 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Well, Professor Chakrabarty, have you really read the Quran and the Hadits before making up your mind that a school like the Bishwabharati would not be a treat to Islam or Muslim culture? It will enrich Bengali culture alright, but Islam (which is the real Muslim culture) is not open to enrichment; because, to real Muslims, Islam is the ultimate wisdom, the ultimate enriched way of life.Now, if you talk about Muslims who want to be good human beings without caring about how much of Islam to follow, they would embrace any kind of inclusive philosophy/institution. These unreal Muslims, who are Muslims primarily because they were born in Muslim families, are basically as good as any other kind of humans, and they do not pose any threat to the human civilization.SuBain======================================On Saturday, April 25, 2015 9:01 AM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
No doubt there are bullies in the forum. One my friends quit the forum because of these bullies.Any way, I am not concerned at all with the possible establishment of a university after the Bishwabharati and Shantiniketan model. It will bring in a greater diversity in our education system. Unity in diversity will enrich the nation intellectually and spiritually as well. Probably even the worst enemy will not complain that Bishwabharati-Shantiniketan model teaches hatred. I don't think any of the students--Indian and foreign-- embraced Rabindranath's Brahma Dharma after attending this institute. You will even find atheists among the students. Instead of being sectarian, it is all embracing. It is true that Rabindranath's spiritual mind was greatly shaped by the Upanishads, but his 'religion of man' also relied heavily on bards of Bengal like Lalan, and Kabir, and others. Has Paschimbongo been badly influenced by the Bishwabharti-Shantiniketan model? I don't think so. If Poschimbngo is O. K., why should we not be O. K.? Is it because 90% population is Muslim? Will it be a threat to Islam? Not at all. Will it negatively affect Muslim culture? I don't see how. Rather, I will say, it will enrich our Bengali culture.
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On Apr 24, 2015, at 6:43 PM, Rezaul Karim rezaulkarim617@gmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Which words/sentence of the article, you both are so critical of? Pl make your point. Don't just brush off everything with the same excuse of "Pakistani ghost" that you still are carrying on your shoulders.I don't know this author at all either. but I've read some of his writings. Is he a Muslim or a Hindu, who cares? Is he saying something that we should be concerned. I think we should. India and Bangladesh are two separate sovereign nation with unique characteristics and distinctive cultures based mostly on religious values that can not be denied. You may buy it or not but that's the fact. Moreover, India's hegemonic attitude, being the big neighbor is not unknown to all of it's neighbors....Lastly, before you say someone "scoundrel", make sure of yourself if you fall in that category,too.. Naming something after some one is nothing wrong, be it an Airport or an university. In this case, it's not naming this university after Rabindranath, its adopting a curriculum of " santineketon" that's solely based on Hindu religion and culture. Plus, think why Hindu India would be so interested in it. The recent actions by Modi's people with Muslims would tell the rest of the story.Thanks a lot.~ Rezaul Karim.On Apr 23, 2015 7:57 PM, "Borakh Bash" <borakhbash@gmail.com> wrote:মাথা মোটা এবং বেকুব কারা , পাঠকের নিশ্চই বুজতে বাকি নেই Iআমদের বাঙালিদের বড় সমস্যা হচ্ছে স্বাধীনতার ৪৪ বছর পার hহলেও কিছু পিউর রাজাকার আছেন যাদের মন এখনো পড়ে আছেকরাচী,লাহোর,ইসলামাবাদে , কেননা ওখানেই তো ছিল উনাদের বসবাস Iনব রাজাকারেরা কখনই বাংলাদেশ কে স্বীকার করেনি বোধহয়কখনই করবেনা I আল্লাহ ওদের ক্ষমা করো I--২১ এপ্রিল, ২০১৫ ২:৪২ am এ তে, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> লিখেছে:Check out this intensely COMMUNAL scoundrel with a phony namespreading this type of "Hate-India" element in the news ~ ~
Why does he not mention the brand new airport in West Bengal named after Kazi Nazrul Islam?
From: shahadathussaini@hotmail.com
To: nabdc@googlegroups.com; bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com; farida_majid@hotmail.com
Subject: {PFC-Friends} "আরে ভাই রবীন্দ্রনাথের নামে বিশ্ববিদ্যালয় হলে সমস্যাটা কি ?"
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 23:55:55 -0400
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