I agree with Farida.
Nobody knows the exact number of people that had been perished during 71 genocide. My family lost six individuals and nobody came to our house and counted the bodies. A great number of people just disappeared around our neighborhood and nobody cared to make a list of those people. We simply do not know how many perished during 71 in whole Bangladesh? It is sad but it is our truth. If the official number is 3 mil, then lets stick to it unless one can prove otherwise. Mr, Rahman does not have any number unless he believes Ms. Bose compilation of deaths just few years back. Why that should be a credible number? I do not know how she came to that number. What were her methodologies?
The numbers of perished victims of any genocide including Jewish and Armenian are problematic. We simply do not know the exact numbers of victims that had been perished. People simply accepted the numbers as good boys and girls. So, dwelling on this issue is simply a waste of time. What we need here is an unconditional Pakistani apology.
On Monday, November 23, 2015 6:26 PM, "Farida Majid farida_majid@hotmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Why is it so important to Anisur Rahman ro keep on blaming s'one for s'thing she did not do? Why is he failing to acknowledge the fact that the '3 million' figure was first mentioned by General Yahya Khan, the Martial Law Administrator of Pakistan in 1970? Is it so difficult to admit this bit of historical information? Is there a taboo?
For the 4th time -- let me repeat -- I AM NOT DOING ANY EXAGGERATION when I cite Yahya Khan's statement in Feb. 1971. Sheikh Mujib, in that Press Conference in 1972 in London, was probably referring to a freshly published number of people killed in Bangladesh by a well-known journal. It is silly to say or imply that his purpose was to "blow up the number then claim credits and privileges from the state for the sacrifices made during the liberation war."
[Personally, I do not use that number, nor do I think the no. is important. No one can be 100% sure of the number, but everyone is sure of the scale of GENOCIDE 1971.]
From: ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 9:24 AM
To: Farida Majid
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Memory Lane: আলবদর বাহিনী [3 Attachments]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 9:24 AM
To: Farida Majid
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Memory Lane: আলবদর বাহিনী [3 Attachments]
Farida Majid seems to be quite unable to take in simple statements. Let me be absolutely clear to her for her understanding - I was not questioning at all whether a genocide was committed in Bangladesh or not; or the exact definition of genocide or the legality of War Crimes Tribunal etc. She kept badgering on the definition of 'genocide', as if nobody else understands it except her!
Let me also be clear that I am one of those aggrieved persons who lost his students and colleagues on the night of 25th March 1971 at Jagannath Hall of the Dhaka University, lost colleagues and teachers at the Dhaka University staff quarters on 26th/27th March 1971 as well as on 16th Dec 1971. I don't need her exaggerated claims for my loses.
What I want to tell her quite clearly that please do not exaggerate the sacrifices of those people. I feel that there is a tendency that their sacrifices are deemed not sufficiently high enough and hence that needed to be blown up to make it look good. And the people who blow up the number then claim credits and privileges from the state for the sacrifices made during the liberation war. In other words, the liars play politics with the sacrifices of those people.
To me this exaggeration is as heinous as that of killing them in the first place. Please respect the sacrifices of those people, even if it does not fulfill your (or of those people whose numbers you are parroting) ego or the financial benefits. Those people are not claiming any state benefit, nor are they or their families given any, and the exaggerated number is traded for the benefit of the corrupt politicians of all description.
- AR
On Monday, 23 November 2015, 12:24, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:
There is nothing I said that could possibly be described as 'violent and reprehensible' by any stretch of imagination. I tried to remind the readers that the '3 million' figure came out of the lips of General Yahya Khan back in Feb. 1971 with a very pronounced genocidal intent, and about the cockamamie story of Sheikh Mujib making the mistake at a Press Conference in 1972 in London. However, I am willing to correct myself if I have misquoted Anisur Rahman. He writes:
<< She should know that in the court of law if the prosecutor produces evidence and one of which is found to be wrong or deliberate lie, then the defence can cast doubt on the whole case. >> This is not applicable in a Tribunal trying crimes committed 44 yrs ago at a time of 'war'.
A War Crimes Tribunal differs from any other normal, municipal court in certain aspects. My focus was on crimes that come under the rubric of 'Genocide'. These crimes are not covered or described in any civil /penal code, and therefore they are tried only in War Crimes Tribunal, and not in any normal criminal court.
Read journalist Michael Dobbs, an expert in covering the Yugoslav War Crimes. <<
Controversy over proper use of the G-word dates back to the 1948 United Nations convention on genocide, which emphasized the subjective motivations of the perpetrators. Genocide is defined as mass killing or other acts with "the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national ethnical, racial or religious group." In other words, it is not enough to murder a large number of people. In order to be convicted of genocide, you must also be shown to have "genocidal intent."
The Yugoslav tribunal had previously found that genocide occurred in the case of Srebrenica, but Mladic's subordinates were eventually cleared of "genocidal intent." The question now is whether Mladic himself, and Karadzic as his direct superior, will be convicted of genocidal intent in the case of Srebrenica, as the men who put the killing/deportation operation into motion. >> http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/06/28/when-is-a-genocide-not-a-genocide/
 | foreignpolicy.com When is a genocide not a genocide? By Michael Dobbs. Michael Dobbs is a prize-winning foreign correspondent and author. Currently serving as a Goldfarb fellow at the ... | |
From: ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 5:58 AM
To: Farida Majid; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Memory Lane: আলবদর বাহিনী [3 Attachments]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 5:58 AM
To: Farida Majid; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Memory Lane: আলবদর বাহিনী [3 Attachments]
I am amazed at Farida Majid's violent and reprehensible reaction by misquoting my comment. I challenge her to show where did I say: "if the 3 million figure is an exaggeration then the whole issue of Genocide 1971, Al Badr, Al Shams, etc are thrown into doubt"? She should know that in the court of law if the prosecutor produces evidence and one of which is found to be wrong or deliberate lie, then the defence can cast doubt on the whole case.
I said it before and I am saying it now for her to understand (however slowly it could be) that Al-Badr, Al-Shams and other anti-liberation forces had carried out unimaginable atrocities in the then East Pakistan and against all odds we won Bangladesh. I lost my relations and many of friends, teachers and colleagues at the Dhaka University where I was a lecturer by their criminality. I don't need any of her crocodile tears for my loses. But what I find demeaning is that the sacrifices those people had been exaggerated wildly as if their sacrifices were not enough to please the bloated and artificial ego of people like her.
We must be truthful. To establish sacrifices of the Bangladeshi people we don't need to lie. Truth and bare facts are good enough. By lying on numbers of fatalities we only contaminate facts. If Farida Majid fails to remember facts, I would urge her to read the transcript of the court judgement where specific cases of criminality of these two people had been presented and then suitably punished. No hairy-fairy block-headed concocted figure of three million had been cited.
- AR
On Sunday, 22 November 2015, 21:16, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:
I don't understand the logic of the argument that says that 'if the 3 million figure is an exaggeration then the whole issue of Genocide 1971, Al Badr, Al Shams, etc are thrown into doubt'.
I am amazed at the blind faith of Anisur Rahman on the concocted report of Sheikh Mujib's London Press Conference after his release from Pakistani jail, relayed by the BBC Bangla Service liar, Serajur Rahman. His account has been thoroughly and meticulously proven false by the eye-witness report of the diplomat Mohiuddin Ahmed. Anisur Rahman perpetrates the disgusting myth:
<< We definitely know that it was Sheikh Mujibur Rahman's lack of English language that made him translate 3 lac into 3 million when he faced foreign journalists. >>
If Anisur Rahman cared to look up the definition of Genocide in the United Nations Charter, (assuming he has adequate command of English language) he would notice that it is not just a large number of people, but the intent with which that number are killed or harmed that comprises a genocide. In that above quote from Yahya Khan, the figure "3 million" is less important than his expression of desire to suppress the whole race of them, his intention of annihilation of a nation, that is genocidal.
I can hear echos of Yahya and Niazi in the voice of Anisur Rahman when he says the following:
<< Little did they realise that their attempt to distort history would not last and only make them blatant liars. Claiming credits by lying has become the hallmark of Bangladeshi people. >>
Wonder what 'credits' are being claimed by 'lying' by these 'Bangladeshi people'? May be killing 3 million of them would cure their lying habit, and they will eat out of Anisur Rahman's hand.
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of ANISUR RAHMAN anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2015 10:15 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Memory Lane: আলবদর বাহিনী [3 Attachments]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2015 10:15 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Memory Lane: আলবদর বাহিনী [3 Attachments]
[Attachment(s) from ANISUR RAHMAN anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com [mukto-mona] included below]
I do not doubt at all that Mujaheed was guilty of despicable crimes during the liberation war. But when I read that three million Bangladeshis had sacrificed their lives for the liberation of Bangladesh, I start to doubt the truthfulness of the whole narrative. If this death toll could be purposely exaggerated and lied upon, could also the guilt of these al_Badr people made up? A definite lie (a three million death) casts doubt over the whole issue.
We definitely know that it was Sheikh Mujibur Rahman's lack of English language that made him translate 3 lac into 3 million when he faced foreign journalists. After that dishonest Bangladeshi political leaders and bureaucrats clung on to this concocted figure to claim egregiously how supreme sacrifice the Bangladeshis had made. Little did they realise that their attempt to distort history would not last and only make them blatant liars. Claiming credits by lying has become the hallmark of Bangladeshi people.
On Sunday, 22 November 2015, 14:51, "SyedAslam Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
__._,_.___
Posted by: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
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