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Thursday, March 10, 2016

[mukto-mona] Secularism is a threat to the power of mullahs so they are opposed to it. It is no threat to Islam. : Ali Shaheen



Re: {PFC-Friends}  সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেওয়া এবং বাংলাদেশের ভবিষ্যত পরিণতি
 
On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:35 PM, Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com> wrote:

Secularism has paved the way towards equal rights and the abolition of slavery and other discriminations.  Human rights evolve with time and secularism allows this evolution.  Current interpretations of Islam are preventing the evolution of Islam as well as human rights within Islam by reverting back to the 7th. century.  If US had been a Christian State and slavery was justified in Christianity it may not have been abolished.  Maybe they would have been demanding that people live like Christ did!

Christianity has evolved with time and continues to do so.  No one is suggesting that Christians should live the way Christ lived.  Rather they say we should learn from his example and follow the principles he taught.  Christian women have been leaders in fighting for women's rights and they have been helped by men.  They continue to struggle against patriarchy in their faith too.  But no one wants to live in a Christian state either.  Those who believe in fairness and justice won't want to impose a religious state on anyone.  

Yes BD is not an Islamic state like Pakistan -yet!  But unless you have been living under a rock you are probably aware of rising extremism too. Do you think all those madrasah graduates won't create the same havoc in BD that they are doing in Pakistan?  Our Constitution talks of a secular Islamic state which is an oxymoron like being a little bit pregnant.  I have given you lots of examples of why Islamic states are discriminatory so I really don't want to repeat myself now.  

Equality means having the same entitlements now.  And where there is discrimination one needs to be able to address it within the legal framework.  Islamic states give special privileges to male Muslims and there is no spin that can alter that fact.  

As you know that is precisely the argument which ISIS is using to justify slavery, rape slaves and practice male supremacy.  The person who has power uses it to impose a perversion of Islam.  And Saudi Arabia which is considered the custodian of the Kaaba and the leader of the Muslim world shares the same ideology as ISIS.  Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have both used their status as Islamic states to violate human rights and especially women's rights.  Same is true in Iran which allows child marriages.  Why?  Because it is considered Islamic.  Recently a so called Islamic scholar has said it is okay to rape slaves.  In an Islamic state there can be no protection against the misinterpretation of Islam by so called scholars.  In a secular state one has recourse to make law that is consistent with the UN declaration of human rights regardless of what some crazy mulla says.  In Pakistan there is an unelected Council of Islamic Ideology consists of mullahs who declare any law against honour killing, DNA testing for rape and child marriages un-Islamic.  That is the sort of thing we will have to look forward to if we don't insist on keeping BD a secular state.

Here is the real issue - secularism is a threat to the power of mullahs so they are opposed to it.  It is no threat to Islam.  Given the problems we are seeing with rising Muslim extremism, I am flabbergasted that educated Muslims are so brainwashed that even they are not pushing for secular states.  It is really shameful.  Frankly I am more free to practice Islam in Canada and would not want to practice what passes for Islam in Islamic states.  

People who don't want to live in a Christian state have no business promoting an Islamic state back home.  I think Muslims are out of touch with empathy and compassion.  They should learn the meaning of Rahman and Raheem and practice it instead of demanding the brutality of Islamic states.  But that is probably beyond their comprehension.  People who have a fanatical mindset don't want equal rights for all.  Their racism will demand the supremacy of male Muslims in an Islamic state.  And given the illiteracy and Saudi influence the consequences will be dire.  But as the Quran says God does not change the condition of a people until they change themselves.  We don't seem to have shed enough blood yet!

You know we had a secular tradition in Islamic history too where there was a separation between the ulema, the military and the administration with the Khalifa to oversee these branches.  He was the defender of the faith just like the King of England.  England evolved towards democracy and secularism and we regressed towards Salafism and the way of life of our ancestors. 

Anyway I have nothing more to add.



Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 10, 2016, at 6:51 PM, Syed Haque <syedhaque@hotmail.com> wrote:

You said: "The important lesson from Shabana Azmi's story is that she could bring it to the media and demand something be done about the discrimination.  In a secular state she has the law on her side." Yes indeed she went to the media to make aware of her issues. 


I am afraid I don't agree with a few items you talked about.

 

People with multiple race and religion immigrated to the USA. Here the founders of the constitution, who were educated elites (some were slave owners), vigorously debated and later adopted a framework.  

 

People paid bloody price before slavery was abolished through the civil war. It was not just because of secularism people somehow started enjoying equal rights.

 

"The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution was adopted on July 9, 1868, as one of the Reconstruction Amendments. The amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. The amendment was bitterly contested, particularly by Southern states, which were forced to ratify it in order for them to regain representation in Congress." 

 

Seriously, in a country where people are easily sold, political leaders reward criminals to stay in power somehow all of a sudden secularism will give genuine rights to all. I don't think so. In fact, we need to find out whether that's what people really want through true representation else it would add more tension, division and extremism. For this you need a genuine leader who not only believes in humanity and justice for all but practices the same motto.

 

BD is not an Islamic Republic like Pakistan. Essentially, if you think current safeguard is not enough for the minorities, then additional safeguards can still be implemented within the current framework through true representation instead of giving a new label "secularism".

 

Lot of people know the big issue with the secularism is to define what is right and wrong. You can say it is my right to enjoy homosexual parade in Dhaka but religious people would shout wrong, wrong. So where would you draw the line.


At the end if you still believe secularism is the only way, then I have nothing more to say. I live this up to the people of BD to find a solution through peaceful means.

 




CC: nazir0101@gmail.com
From: alishaheen2010@gmail.com
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Fwd: সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেওয়া এবং বাংলাদেশের ভবিষ্যত পরিণতি
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 12:56:17 -0500
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com

So Shabana Azmi can't buy a home and the homes of minorities are being burned in all parts of South Asia. Secularism is not the only solution but it is the foundation of creating a just society.  If this is not happening in the West it is because there is secularism and rule of law and compulsory education and better sharing of power and resources and less overt and blatant corruption.   We have to address all those things too but it rests on the foundation of a legal framework where the State has to be neutral to all religions ensure freedom of religion for all.  

Islamic States open the door to all kinds of inequities and Saudi Arabia is not alone.  Human rights are not negotiable and cannot be left to the generosity and goodwill of the majority.  They must be legally protected even if some countries are negligent in implementing those laws.

I agree that secularism only addresses the legal framework within the constitution.  It has to be accompanied by reforming the madrasahs into full fledged schools where students can learn the diverse, tolerant and enlightened Islam along with all all other subjects so that they can find proper jobs.  All this can be done in a secular state.  

With our human resources we could become the call centre capital of the world.  But first we have to introduce English and allow people to become competitive instead of having to hire Indians as consultants.

The important lesson from Shabana Azmi's story is that she could bring it to the media and demand something be done about the discrimination.  In a secular state she has the law on her side.  Secularism is no panacea but it is the first step in addressing inequities.  Without it things would be worse.  Sectarianism, communalism and discrimination can be addressed legally in secular states because the law does not allow discrimination - why is that so hard to understand?  Of course it will not eradicate bigotry which requires more education and community building but at least you are legally bound.  Maybe you can't eradicate child marriages but if it is illegal at least you can prevent or prosecute those who practice it.  Without a law there is no recourse.  To say that secularism doesn't end discrimination is like saying laws don't stop people from committing murder.  But you still need laws you know!

No one has yet been able to answer why we Muslims seek secularism in the West but don't want it back home.  That double standard smacks of bigotry to me.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 9, 2016, at 9:52 PM, Syed Haque <syedhaque@hotmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the response.

Shabana Azmi, a former MP said: "Indian democracy is unfair to Muslims." She couldn't buy a house in Mumbai because she is a Muslim.  

I would like to say something along the problems you brought. It is not easy to change people's mindset through the implementation of secularism if we don't inject true meaning of Islam through the grassroots level.

Stupid fatwas based on personnel interpretations can mold Sharia. This dilutes the core values given in Quran and Sunnah. Yes, Saudi brand of Islam has a problem. 






Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Fwd: সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেওয়া এবং বাংলাদেশের ভবিষ্যত পরিণতি
From: alishaheen2010@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 19:21:33 -0500
CC: nazir0101@gmail.com
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com

Here is the problem:  when there are people who misinterpret the beauty of Islam then creating an Islamic State clears the way for people who misinterpret Islam to come to power.  They may want to impose shariah law.  But there are 4 schools of shariah so which school of shariah law will we get?  Will they justify child marriage?  Do you have a 9 year old granddaughter? Can you see her married?  Maybe you are educated and rich enough to say no, but can a poor illiterate man?  What if they say women cannot work?  How will widows and divorcees feed their family? What if women are banned from driving or travelling alone?  These are just a few examples of what actually happens in some Islamic States.  

Would you like a Council of Islamic Ideology giving fatwas that children marriage is legal, you need 4 witnesses for rape and banning "honour" killings is un-Islamic?  This happens in Pakistan with whom we shared a history for 24 years.  After independence Saudi Arabia gave money to both Pakistan and Bangladesh then set up madrasahs everywhere.  Now those madrasah graduates are creating havoc in both countries.  We must not sell our conscience for oil money the way Pakistan has.  

Secularism is not atheism.  It just means religion is a private matter and all religions are equal before the State.  It is like having a law that says you cannot kill or steal.  It does not mean that people stop murdering or stealing.  It means that there is a law to protect you against murder and theft and you can use that law to have your rights respected and justice when you are wronged.

Of course there must be a balance between all sectors of society but human rights are not negotiable and you must IN LAW be entitled to the same rights as a Christian in America or a Hindu in India.  In a secular state you have that right.  No one can say sorry these jobs are reserved only for Hindus because this is a Hindu State.  You would have the right to file a grievance.  But if an Islamic State says you have to be Muslim to practice law because we have shariah law then no non-Muslim can work as a lawyer.  That is systemic discrimination.  In a secular state laws are made on the basis of research and reason and any citizen is entitled to practice provided they have the qualifications.  

Justice is an Islamic value and justice in the 21st century means equal rights for all human beings not preferential treatment for male Muslims which is what those who want Islamic states are after.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 9, 2016, at 4:19 PM, Syed Haque <syedhaque@hotmail.com> wrote:

Just and FYI - I didn't upload this video!


From: syedhaque@hotmail.com
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
CC: nazir0101@gmail.com
Subject: RE: {PFC-Friends} Re: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Fwd: সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেওয়া এবং বাংলাদেশের ভবিষ্যত পরিণতি
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 16:18:01 -0500

I think connection between God and People is subtle in the U.S. government. You can observe this when left and right groups fight over the issues of Judo-Christian foundation like "In God We Trust", "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance, etc.   Right group claims the neutrality in constitution is not to give any sect of Christianity a preferential treatment. I don't know how much of this claim is true.

Does Islam give right to practice whatever faith you believe? Absolutely - as long is you don't interfere with the civic peace. It is like if majority people think it is better to practice DADT by the homosexuals to keep peace in the society, then would you go public and put yourself at a risk.  

Problem is ignorant fanatics misinterprets the beauty of Islam. It is not Islam to blame for this misapprehension or pretension to justify wrongdoings. 

People of different mindsets and parties came together and created the U.S. constitution. Likewise, I think before any amendment is made in the constitution, a true representation of the people is necessary.

Any system of government, secular or religious you adopt,  should create a balance so the rights of majority is not affected to protect the minority and vice versa else equilibrium will shift and tension will rise.

Regards,

SH



 

CC: nazir0101@gmail.com
From: alishaheen2010@gmail.com
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Fwd: সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেওয়া এবং বাংলাদেশের ভবিষ্যত পরিণতি
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 13:24:05 -0500
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com

The countries you mention are actually secular states.  Secular states don't have a "national religion".  Legally in a secular state all religions are equal and the role of the state is to be neutral to all religions and to ensure freedom of religion to all.  Why is that a problem?

Secularism in any country takes on the flavour of its majority population.  So in the West it has a Christian flavour, in India it has a Hindu flavour, in Buddhist majority countries it would have a Buddhist flavour and in Bangladesh it has a Muslim flavour.  The religion of the majority population can never be under threat in a secular country.

Would people living in America want its name changed to the Christian States of America?  Why are we not willing to offer religious minorities in our homeland the same rights we fight for and enjoy here?   And how insecure are we to think we don't have the responsibility to protect minorities in our midst.

We need a movement to return to the wording of the 1972 Constitution.  Not a constitution that was amended following a military coup.  The 1972 Constitution is what the people of Bangladesh agreed to following independence.  The Constitution should not be destroyed by political bickering between AL, BNP and Jamaat.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 7, 2016, at 6:02 PM, 'Razzak Syed' via PFC-Friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Even India's national religion is Hinduism, USA,UK,Australia and Germany their national religion is Christianity, Japan,China,Korea,Vietnam national religion is Buddhism, why Bangladesh has more than 90% Muslims can't have Islam as national religion? when other religions availing national holiday on their religious festival? UK,USA,Australia,Canada don't declare public holidays other than the Christianity!!


BAL government is a murtad government. How they allow someone dare to file such case in the courts.

Capt. Razzak A. Syed


Sent from my iPhone


On 8 Mar 2016, at 00:07, Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com> wrote:

How can BD be a "Godless land" when the overwhelming majority of the people practice Islam?  We must restore the wording of the 1972 Constitution.  A secular constitution protects the rights of all its citizens regardless of religion or sect.  We don't want to be an Islamic State like Pakistan where minorities are persecuted with blasphemy laws and Shias and Ahmedis are blown up.  Every Muslim with a conscience must support the restoration of the 1972 Constitution.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 7, 2016, at 11:43 AM, Rezaul Karim <rezaulkarim617@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank You for the post.

 It's alarming, no doubt, seeing what happened in Turkey. We need not only an awareness but a movement to resist this heinous plan to make it a Godless land..
Hope, everyone take a notice of this and speak out. 
I've  posted it in my facebook.
~ Rezaul karim


2016-03-07 11:00 GMT-05:00 Mohamed Nazir <nazir0101@gmail.com>:



সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেওয়া এবং বাংলাদেশের ভবিষ্যত পরিণতি
গত কয়েকদিন যাবত খবর আসছে, বাংলাদেশের সংবিধান থেকে নাকি রাষ্ট্রধর্ম ইসলাম তুলে দেওয়া হতে পারে। এ কারণে ২৮ বছর আগে সুপ্রীম কোর্টে দায়েরকৃত একটি আবেদন পুনরায় তোলা হয়েছে এবং আগামী ২৭ মার্চ শুনানীর মাধ্যমে বিষয়টি নিয়ে চূড়ান্ত ফয়সালা আসতে পারে বলে অনেকে মনে করছেন।
অনেকেই হয়ত এখন বুঝতে পারছেন না, সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম ইসলাম তুলে দেওয়া হলে কি পরিণতি ঘটতে পারে বাংলাদেশের। এ বিষয়টি বুঝতে হলে আপনাকে তুরষ্কের ইতিহাস সম্পর্কে জানা প্রয়োজন। তুরষ্কে আগে ইসলামী খিলাফত ব্যবস্থা। তবে প্রথম বিশ্বযুদ্ধের পর সেটা তুলে দেওয়া হয়। সে সময় কামাল আতাতুর্ক তুর্কী প্রজাতন্ত্র প্রতিষ্ঠা করে, এবং ইসলামের বদলে একটি সেক্যুলার সিস্টেম চালু করে। কামাল আতাতুর্ক ১৯২৮ সালের ১০ এপ্রিল তুর্কী সংবিধান হতে ধর্ম সংক্রান্ত সব কথাই বাদ দিয়ে দেয়। ফলে ইসলাম আর তুরস্কের রাষ্ট্রধর্ম থাকে না। প্রতিষ্ঠা হয় ধর্ম নিরপেক্ষ তুরষ্কের।
তুর্কী সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেয়ার পর কি কি ঘটেছিলো আসুন দেখি-
১) শিশুদের ইসলামী শিক্ষা নিষিদ্ধ করা হয়।
২) ধর্ম মন্ত্রণালয়, মাদরাসা-মসজিদ বন্ধ করে দেওয়া হয় এবং হজ্জ-ওমরা যাত্রা নিষিদ্ধ করা হয়।
৩) বড় বড় মসজিদগুলোতে নামায বন্ধ করে দিয়ে সেগুলোকে জাদুঘর হিসেবে উন্মুক্ত করে দেওয়া হয়। তুরস্কের সর্ববৃহৎ মসজিদ 'আয়া ছুফিয়া'কে রূপান্তরিত করেছিলেন সরকারি জাদুঘরে।
৪) নারীদের জন্য হিজাব পরিধান বন্ধ করে দেওয়া হয়। সরকারি নির্দেশে তুর্কী পুলিশ রাস্তায় বের হওয়া মুসলিম মহিলাদের ওড়না কেড়ে নিয়ে ছিঁড়ে ফেলত।
৫) আরবী অক্ষরের ব্যবহার নিষিদ্ধ হয়। আরবীতে কুরআন পড়া, নামাজ পড়া ও আজান দেওয়া নিষিদ্ধ হয়।
৬) তুর্কী ভাষা আরবী হরফে না লিখে ল্যাটিন হরফে লিখতে হতো।
৭) সাপ্তাহিক ছুটি হিসেবে রবিবারকে নির্ধারণ করা হয়।
৮) তুরস্কবাসীকে ভিন্ন ধরণের পোষাক পরতে বাধ্য করা হয়।
৮) মুসলমানদের ধর্মীয় উৎসব ঈদকে বর্জনীয় ঘোষনা করা হয়।
৯) তুরস্কের অধীন আজারবাইজানকে রাশিয়ার কাছে বিক্রি করে দেওয়া হয়।
১০) বক্তৃতা এবং বিবৃতিতে নিয়মিত ইসলাম ও ইসলামী পরিভাষাসমূহ নিয়ে মিথ্যাচার ও কুৎসা রটনা করে সেগুলো বর্জনের প্রতি সবাইকে আদেশ-নিষেধ করা হয়।
১১) সরকারী লোকদের জামাতে নামায পড়া নিষিদ্ধ হয়।
১২) ইসলামী নিয়ম অনুযায়ী সালাম দেওয়াও নিষিদ্ধ করা হয় । এর পরিবর্তে সুপ্রভাত (Good Morning) বিদায় (Good Bye) ও হ্যান্ডশেক রেওয়াজ প্রবর্তিত হয়।
১৩) ইমাম-মুফতীদের পাগড়ি ও জুব্বা পরা নিষিদ্ধ করা হয়।
১৪) হিজরী সন উঠিয়ে দিয়ে ইংরেজী সন চালু করা হয়
১৬) আরবী ভাষায় নাম রাখা নিষিদ্ধ হয়। এর বদলে তুর্কী ভাষায় বাধ্যতামূলক নাম রাখতে হয়।
১৭) আলেমদের প্রতিষ্ঠানগুলো ভেঙ্গে দেয়া হয় এবং আলেমদেরকে প্রজতন্ত্রে শত্রু হিসিবে চিহ্নিত করা হয়। কোন আলেম তার বিরুদ্ধাচরণ করলে তাকে সাথে হত্যা করা হয়। এছাড়া ওয়াকফ সম্পত্তি কেড়ে নিয়ে আলেমদের অর্থনৈতিকভাবে বিপর্যস্ত করা হয়।
এখানে লক্ষণীয় যে, এ ঘটনাগুলো হচ্ছে আজ থেকে প্রায় ৯০ বছর আগে এবং তা করা হয়েছিলো উছমানিয় খেলাফত বন্ধ করার পর। বলাবাহুল্য সে সময় মানুষের মধ্যে জোর ইসলামী চেতনা দৃঢ় থাকার পরও এতটা এগ্রেসিভ হতে পেরেছিলো কামাল আতার্তুক। কিন্তু এখন তো বাংলাদেশের মানুষের ধর্মীয় চেতনা অনেকটাই দুর্বল। তার উপর কামাল আতার্তুক সে সময় যা যা করেছে তার অনেকগুলোই ইতিমধ্যে বাংলাদেশে জারি করা হয়েছে বা চেষ্টা চলছে। তবে শুধু সংবিধানে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম ইসলাম দেখে পুরোপুরি আইনত জারি করা যাচ্ছে না। কিন্তু সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্র ইসলাম তুলে দেওয়ার সাথে সাথে কামাল আতাতুর্ক কেন, তার থেকে বহুগুন কঠিনভাবে বাংলাদেশ থেকে নির্মূল করা হবে ইসলাম ধর্মকে, এটা বলা যায় নিশ্চিত।
আমার মনে হয়, এ ব্যাপারে বাংলাদেশের মানুষের সতর্ক হওয়া জরুরী । কারণ আর মাত্র ২০ দিন পরেই সুপ্রীম কোর্টে অনুষ্ঠিত হচ্ছে 'ইসলাম ধর্ম' তুলে দেওয়া সংক্রান্ত চূড়ান্ত শুনানী। আর একবার যদি আইন জারি হয়ে যায়, তবে তা পরিবর্তন করা সহজ নয়।
সত্যিই আজ বাংলাদেশের আকাশের ঘনকালো মেঘের ঘনঘটা, মনে হচ্ছে বাংলাদেশের মুসলমানদের জন্য শিঘ্রই বড় কোন দুর্যোগ আসছে, দেখা যাক কি হয়।
প্রয়োজনীয় সূত্র:
১) বাংলাদেশের রাষ্ট্রধর্ম ইসলাম আর নাও থাকতে পারে:
http://goo.gl/73U1Fs
২) ২৮ বছর পর শুনানিতে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম ইসলাম চ্যালেঞ্জের মামলা : http://goo.gl/ywNpXf
৩) রাষ্ট্রধর্ম ইসলামের চ্যালেঞ্জ মামলার শুনানি ২৭ মার্চ
http://goo.gl/2SR0Ol
৪) ইসলামবিদ্বেষ ও ইসলামবিরোধীতার অপর নাম : কামাল আতাতুর্ক:
http://goo.gl/TE67rf
৫) শুনুন কামালের আমলের তুর্কি ভাষার আযান: https://youtu.be/OUIgLy1L3x4


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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