WRT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/46925
--- In mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com, "Dr Jaffor Ullah" wrote:
>
> WRT: Message #46916
>
> Dear readers:
>
> Dr. Jiten Roy asked me few questions concerning the ills of
liberalism. I decided to rebut his entire write-up paragraph-by-
paragraph so that the context is not lost.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> A.H. Jaffor Ullah
>
> March 5, 2008
>
> ------------------------
>
>
>
> Dr. Jiten Roy (DJR) wrote:
>
> < It is immaterial how we came here or how good ones English
proficiency and writing ability are. You are a very good writer, no
doubt. Everybody cannot be good writer. You deserve the praise.>
>
>
>
> Jaffor Ullah (JU) replies:
>
> I really don't deserve this encomium from anyone. We all should
try to express our thoughts lucidly through dialogue or civil
discourse for which one has to learn good usage of language -
English, Bengali, Hindi, etc.
>
>
> DJR wrote:
>
> <The question is how good our presence is for this country? I am
aware of the fact that immigrants made enormous contributions in the
past.>
>
>
>
> JU replies:
>
> Contrary to your line of thinking that only immigrants from
yesteryears made contribution to the western society, I would say
many recent immigrants have made their marks in myriad of fields.
One of the founders of Yahoo is of Asian descent. The chip
manufacturing company, Intel, has many scientists from Asia. Have
they not made any contributions? Dr. Roy lives in New York City;
therefore, he only sees cab driver, grocery store owners, restaurant
workers, etc. Immigrants do live in college towns, and in small
cities. There, many hard working immigrants are contributing very
positively to their respective communities. Come to think of it,
Dr. H. Govind Khorana, an immigrant from India lived in Madison
Wisconsin in the mid 1960s. He contributed in the field of
Biochemistry and received the Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology
in 1968. Prof. Fazle Hussein of Bangladesh who teaches at Univ. of
Houston has made contribution in his field. Therefore, Dr. Roy has
to look outside NYC to find immigrants who have served the American
society. Let us be proud of these overachievers.
>
> Reply from Jiten Roy (JR):
> You are concentrating on the cream of the crop. They are not my
subject of discussion. I am talking about contribution from the
immigrant communities as a whole in the American society.
Mexican immigrants come here not to become American, although they
say so when you ask. They are here to impose their culture and way
of life on to others, just like other recent immigrants from
elsewhere. You have seen on TV, when maxicans were demonstrating for
immigration status, they were carrying thousands of mexican flags,
very few American flag were seen. Later on, when everybody started
to criticize them in the media, they were showing American flags
also. What that tells you?
>
Bangladeshi Americans are contesting in the National election in
Bangladesh. They have their own political parties, cultural parties,
etc., here. They have everything they need to lead a Bangladeshi
life in America. They are American in the papers; Bangladeshi in the
heart. Why they will try to become American?
Chinese Americans have built Chinese markets everywhere, where all
signs are written in Chinese. They are so many in number that they
do not need other American customers. You have heard that national
security and defense secrets were smuggled to china by chinese
immigrants working in the government. Where are you going to find
trusted Americans when whites become minority in 2050?
I do not have to tell you that mosques and madrasas are breeding
grounds for suicide bombers and terrorists. Thousands of mosques and
madrassas are sprouting everywhere.
These are just a few examples.
> DJR wrote:
>
> <But, what's our future is bringing? Until recently, this was a
great country on the face of the Earth. Just look around what's
happening now to this once golden country.>
>
>
>
> JU replies:
>
> Dr. Roy, you are living in the past. The modern society is mired
in many problems but look at the positive side. The progress in
Internet technology, medical imaging, biotechnology, medicine, etc.,
gives me much hope for a better future. Yes, we have inequalities
in American society. That is precisely why we need Barack Obama or
Hillary Clinton to run this country. The crime problem is
everywhere and I blame the Hollywood-Bollywood culture for
glamorizing criminal enterprise.
>
> Reply from (JR)
I'm not living in the past; I'm living in the future. That's not the
point; the point is you have everything but what good they are if
you cannot enjoy them in the future?
You must know what both of these candidates are saying. They are
pandaring to the poor and middle-class people, who constitute
majority vote bank, to get votes. It is easy to promise heven for
middle class, but difficult to do. What both of these candidates are
promising is impractical to deliver.
For example, Barak Hossein Obama introduced class war fare in
America. He is saying that, he will rein in corporations by taxing
them havily to give middle class a tax break. Now, let's examine.
What is a corporation? It is the provider of job and healthcare for
millions of middle class and upper-class people. If my corporation
does not do well due to OBAMA PLAN, I could get laid off heavily or
leave USA. In that case, Ilose my pension, and health care. What
good middle-class tax break will do if they do not have a job to go
to.
Under republican plan with tax break for corporations, they will do
well, and company could expand and hire more people. I could get a
raise at the end of the year or I could also have a better option
for my healthcare provider.
>
Now Hillary Healthcare: She wants to rein in Phermaceutical
companies and corporations as well. If she does that, Phermaceutical
companies will leave USA, and go to Canada or elsewhere. Where those
millions of employees they leave behind will go? They do not have to
go to work; Hillary will provide them healthcare and food stamp.
That's her plan.
Democrates like big-government entitlement programs, just like
Socialists do. They exploit down-trodden people's sentiment. Their
politics revolves aroud poor people. They need poor people in the
society for supporting them, and their programs will make sure that
poor people remains poor forever.
Republicans, on the contrary, need support from the rich, and
therefore, their programs will be geared towards making poor people
rich. Their programs can provide the lift the poor need to be rich.
If poor people get a decent job, they can buy healthcare themselves.
Government provided healthcare can never be good quality. What poor
people need is a job, not a healthcare without a job.
> DJR wrote:
>
>
>
> <The recent immigrants are not the same immigrants, who came
through the Ellis Island. These recent immigrants do not have
loyalty to this country as past immigrants did. I can see how things
have changed in 27 years, I have been here. Recent immigrants are
changing the demographic and social structures of this country,
which cannot be good even for the immigrants themselves. These
immigrants will transform this country into the third world country
from where they came from. Because, they are bringing their
notorious characteristics with them and liberalism is allowing them
to preserve those cultures here.>
>
>
>
> JU replies:
>
> Dr. Roy, how much do you know about the old immigrants who came to
the shore of America from Europe? Did not mafia people come from
Sicily by boat? Many ruffians came from Europe too alongside with
good people! America is a vast country and you are rest assured
that the criminal elements will probably stay in NYC, cities in NJ,
CT, etc., and will not venture out to rural areas. By and large
America is still a nice place to raise a family. I hate to say that
you are fear monger who thinks liberalism is allowing vile and
criminals to flourish in this open society. Can you back up your
comments with research findings?
>
>
> Reply from (JR):
Now you see, Latino gang, Chinese gang, Indian gang, Salvadoran
gang, Mexican gang, Pakistani gang, etc. on top of Italian mafia.
When you say don't worry, America is a vast country, you are really
trying to avoid problems. Soon it will be Tsunami, and you will not
find time to run away from it.
You said it, "America is still a nice place." But for how long? I
want to keep it a nice place indefinitely. American conservatives
are the people who can keep it thatway longer, not liberals.
> DJR wrote:
>
>
>
> <The support for the liberal ideology in the administrative and
media power structures allow them to preserve their characteristics
in tact through multi-culturalism. Multi-culturalism has replaced
the melting-pot theory. I know multi-culturalism brings a sounds
good feeling in the recent immigrant community, but is it good for
this country? I happen to think that it is not good for this country
or the recent immigrant communities. We may be able to see the
result of multi-culturaism when millions of illegal Mexican
immigrants get legal status. We might see communal tension between
different immigrant communities sooner than later.>
>
>
>
> JU replies:
>
> You are saying that only liberal folks support multiculturalism.
Perhaps you are watching CNN's Lou Dobbs program way too much.
Newscasters such as Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh, etc., are true fear
mongers. Dr. Roy, do you know that without the labor of illegal
Hispanics in New Orleans area our reconstruction work would not have
been possible. My house was almost destroyed by hurricane Katrina
led 8 feet of water. The roof was damaged too. The Hispanics were
God-sent. They did all the work for white contractor and in the
process the Caucasian contractors made money hand over fist.
Sitting in the Big Apple you have no idea how the Hispanics are
shaping the future of America. Get real, Dr. Roy? In 50 years time
Hispanics will surpass the whites in terms of population.
>
> Reply (JR):
So, you agree, that in 50 years Hispanics will surpass whites, and
it should be stopped. Mexicans still want their land back, which is
part of Texas, Arizona, and California. You want to give it away?
This time they will capture that land without war. Just wait and see.
>
> DJR wrote:
>
>
>
> <Now, lets go through the following:
>
>
>
> Test for a Liberal:
>
> 1.. Do you believe in Homosexual/Lesbian marriages?
> 2.. Will you surrender your own culture to accommodate other
cultures?
> 3.. Do you support abortion?
> 4.. Do you think pornography should be considered as a freedom
of expression?
> 5.. Do you believe that an ideal family can be formed without a
father and a mother?
> If your answers consist of 3 or more "Yes" then you are
a "Liberal." Otherwise, you are a Conservative.>
>
>
>
> JU replies:
>
> 1.. The world is teeming with 6.25 billion people. As you know
homosexual marriage won't populate the world. Therefore, from the
perspective of ZPG (Zero Population Growth) it is not a bad idea.
As long as homosexuals keep it to themselves, why should it bother
you and me?
Reply (JR):
That's the problem - homosexuals are not going to keep it to
themselves. They want the same recognition, same social status, same
rights, etc. as the heterosexuals. Haven't you seen, when they kiss
publicly, embrace publicly, and parade wearing half naked dresses on
the 5th Ave to observe Gay Pride day.
> 2.. Yes, I would. I came to this country not to join an
organization that will erect an "OM" or La Ilaha Illalla signboard
at their doorsteps. I came to this country to assimilate.
> 3.. Of course, yes. Human being makes babies. A couple should
decide whether they should have babies or not. Infanticide is a
serious problem in South Asia. Are you aware of it?
Which means, you support killing unborn babies, just because you do
not want them. Of course a couple should decide whether they want a
baby or not, before babies are conceived, not after.
> 4.. Pornography is always a part of human civilization. How
about the erotic pictures so gracefully adorning the Mandir allover
India, Dr. Roy? Or, is it the Playboy or the likes of it that you
abhor?
Reply (JR):
You do not know me at all. How could you make a definitive judgemnet
about my liking of Playboy Magazine? I thought you are mature enough
to carry out a civilized conversation. You have a habit of poking
others with unnecessary and unrelated inferences just to make them
angry at you. Every answer you give should have a personal attack.
How old are you? You seem to be very immature individual. You like
to play cat and mouse game, isn't it?
> 5.. What is the definition of an ideal family, Dr. Roy? South
Asian people have no problem watching seductive Bollywood films
three-generations sitting in the same room. Before criticizing the
westerners please look into our culture first.
Reply (JR):
Definition is very simple: To raise a child in a perfect family
environment, you need the presence of a father and a mother. Child
needs influence from both parents. That's called a perfect family.
Of course there are single family, consisting of a father or a
mother. Would you consider that a perfect environment for a child to
grow up? How about gay or lesbian family raising a child? Is that a
perfect environment to bring up a child? This is what I am talking
about.
>
>
> DJR wrote:
>
>
>
> <I know liberals are free thinkers and productive members of the
society. I also know, many contributions from Liberals have been
detrimental to the society as well as the country. >
>
> <Regards,
>
> Jiten Roy>
>
>
>
> JU replies:
>
>
>
> Please show me the contributions of the illiberal people (read:
conservative). Religious people from time immemorial have shown
their bias as conservatives. They hardly contributed to the
progress of human society. Please read more about the enlightenment
movement of eighteenth century in Europe. That movement was made
possible by liberals. Raja Ram Mohan Roy, Dwarkanath Thakur,
Michael Modhusudan Dutta, Ishwar Chandra, Bankim Chottopdhaya,
Rabindranath Thakur, etc., were the direct beneficiaries of that
liberal movement. Had this not for them, you and I would be
schooled in "Tol" and "Madrassah." This is an understatement, Dr.
Jiten Roy.
>
I am sorry, probably I did not make myself clear. My frame of
reference is America. When I say liberals, it is the American
liberals, who pass the test I mentioned before. None of those
people, you mentioned, will pass that test as a liberal.
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