Dear Alochok Farida,I don't think I have termed you "Idiot" or anything close to it. You may want to deal with Mr. Hannan separately. His statements have no bearing with mine. I have seen lot of "experts" on Islam without knowledge on the topic. Let readers decide if you have scholarly knowledge or not. I simply wanted to share my opinion in this forum without calling anyone idiot.
I think removing Bismillah from our constitution will only encourage chaos and confusion. It will not help my country. I congratulated BAL for their wisdom. We don't need to be "International expert" for such realization. Just need to use God given "Common sense". BAL leaders spent enough time in "I do not know what is big deal with secularism? Surely I should not have to give an exam to you to share my opinions here. If you know anything about secularism or history of Bengal, feel free to share. Your attitude with differece of opinion shows your level of tolerance here. We are good at lecturing others and find faults in others but when it comes to civilized discussion about ideas, the real "face" emerge. It will take a very long time to answer your question about secularism. So I'll share a story. When Indian deputy foreign minister Shashi Tharoor wrote a book at the end of his tenure at the United Nations, he explained secularism in south He said socialists in People of south east asia are spiritual and want to stay in touch with religion. Even when they call themselves "Communists". Generally Bengalis are very open minded about religion. Still many of them fought for their right to practice religion in safety during 1947 and next generation fought a complete different fight when their culture and traditions were attacked by extramist ideaology. Both events are part of our history and tells us who we are as people. We are religious moderates who stoop up against all type of extreamist ideaologies. I feel very blessed to be a bengali. Peace.-Quazi
-original message- Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] FW: Blow to Religion-based Politics in Bangladesh From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> Date: 17/03/2010 1:34 pm If you want to prove that I am an idiot then you have to do better than attributing to me statements I never made. Nothing I ever wrote could possibly be construed as asuming "All things Islamic are bad." I am an internationally acknowledged scholar on Islam and women. You are being spiteful at the risk of having to resort to lies. What exactly are you defending? Unless, of course, you are making a mistake of equating Jamaat and Shibir with Islam, in which case I would accuse you of being a-dharmik. S. A. Hannan has equated Shibir with Islam recently. He constantly hints at himelf being the equivalence of Islam. Let me ask you a question. What do you know about secularism and its history in the Western world? How much do you know of the history of your own motherland, Bengal? It is the Jamaat who is falsely propagandizing about secularism being religion-less or dharma-heen. Secularism is inclusive of religion, it only assures and protects freedom of religion for all. But Jamaat does not want protection of people of other faiths; it does not even want the protection of fellow Muslims if they do not agree with their political agenda or views. Witness how ruthlessly they slaughtered fellow Muslims and fellow-Bangalee during the 1971 genocide! Do you believe that use of "bismillah" should be justified for committing an illegal vandalizing act? I think it is an act of 'kufri' or outright blasphemy. I can provide support from the Qur'an and Sunnah against the blasphemous act of putting "bismillah" illegally at the beginning of the Preamble of the Constitution of Bangladesh by a Martial Law Proclamation of 1977. I have no personal problem with "bismillah", it is my constant companion. I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MARTIAL LAW. There is no such law in the Bangladesh Constitution. How many times do I have to say it? May Allah guide your mind towards rashada~! Farida Majid To: alochona@yahoogroups.com From: qrahman@netscape.net Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:49:53 -0500 Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] FW: Blow to Religion-based Politics in Bangladesh Attached Message From: qrahman@aim.com To: alochona@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] FW: Blow to Religion-based Politics in Bangladesh Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:04:40 +0600 Dear Alochok Farida, Secularism in Indian sub continent was very different and complex than what you are projecting in this forum. Removing "Bismillah" will not ensure safe environment for minorities. Rather we have to turn ourselves into a group that uphold law of the land. Remember "Golden age of Jewish civilization" came when Muslims use to follow sharia law in Spain. It is plain wrong to assume all things "Islamic" are bad (Or all things Islamic automatically makes everything perfect!). Thomas Freedman of NY times coined the term "Islamist" as negetive and we have been debating among ourselves without looking into this "Flawed" context. We should stand united against violence and lawlessness. We should not stand against Islam. Bangabandhu was a man of wisdom. During 47 he was part of Muslim League because situation null such stance. During 71, he took up the cause of protecting Bengalis. He NEVER stood up against Islam.even communists from India understand religion is a big part of our culture and history. So they kept the right balance for India while promoting socialist system in many parts of India. ---Quazi -original message- Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] FW: Blow to Religion-based Politics in Bangladesh From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> Date: 21/02/2010 1:07 pm This tiresome practice of first citing the West for a model to look UP to, and then looking DOWN upon the West as Godless because they are SECULAR seems pointless. Actually, it points to an "inferiority complex" of both the deshi Islamists and the secularists who never understood the complex historical development of Secularism in the West. European secularism is a relatively recent phenonmenon, and American secularim is only Constitutional. Secularism in the Constitution of Bangladesh is more appropriate, and naturally more fitting to its cultural and civilizational heritage than it is to the Constitution of the United States of America. It is us, nurtured in the great Indian Civilization, who enjoyed secularism for all those gloriously prosperous centuries while Europe was mired in religious strife and bigotry. Finally, please stop citing Christian Democratic Party of Germany as an IDEAL of religion-based political party. In the European political party the name indicates 'democrats' who happen to be Christians as opposed to being communists or something else. But BD-Jamaat claims to be the SOLE purveyor of Allah'r Ain and resorts to killing other Muslims if they don't agree with their political agenda. Farida Majid ========================= To: alochona@yahoogroups.com From: azizhuq@hotmail.com Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:08:30 +0000 Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] FW: Blow to Religion-based Politics in Bangladesh Most European countries have religion based political parties (Christan Democratic) yet Europe is most secular. While America has no major religion based political parties (at least by name) still religion plays a great role in America. There are three Jamaths (Islamic groups) in Bangladesh (JMB, JIB and the TJ). One is, most probably, banned. So, when one goes down the other will come up. It will be interesting to see the direction Bangladesh takes. farida_majid@hotmail.com Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:30:03 -0500 Subject: [ALOCHONA] FW: Blow to Religion-based Politics in Bangladesh A very good summing-up without any frills. I would clarify only one thing. The notorious Fifth Amendment did not include the placement of "Bismillah" in the Preamble of the Consitution. Therefore the repeal of the Amendment does not by itself remove "Bismillah". There has to be another Parliamentary gesture to clean up the Constitution of any sign of preference for a particular religion. Farida Majid Blow to Religion-Based Politics in Bangladesh Friday 05 February 2010 by: J. Sri Raman, t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed Here is some disconcerting news for all disciples of neocon gurus, who had discovered Islam as the enemy of democracy and the successor to the "evil empire" of the cold war era. An Islamic country of 160 million people, under an elected government, is witnessing important but ill-noticed moves to abolish religion-based politics. On February 2, the Supreme Court of Bangladesh struck down a nearly 11-year-old constitutional amendment that had allowed religion-based political parities to function and flourish in the country. The ruling had the effect of restoring the statutory secularism, which Bangladesh adopted in 1972 after liberation from Pakistan and lost five years later following a series of military coups. It may also have the effect of inspiring at least a debate on the issues in Pakistan, the other Islamic country of South Asia. It may also have a ripple effect, helping to raise the issues subsequently in sections of the rest of the Islamic world. This only carries forward an old battle. The logic of Bangladesh's liberation war itself led the nation's founder, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, to place its linguistic identity above the religious. The reverse of the same logic drove religion-based groups in the the pre-liberation East Pakistan to side with Islamabad in the war. The first constitution of Bangladesh, under Article 38, placed a bar on religion-based parties and politics. Mujib, as he was popularly known, and most of his family were assassinated in a coup on August 25, 1975. A series of coups since then culminated in the country's takeover by Maj.-Gen. Ziaur Rahman in 1977. In April 1979, the Zia regime enacted the infamous Fifth Amendment to the constitution, paving the way for the return of religion-based parties and politics. Article 38 of the original constitution proclaimed: "Every citizen shall have the right to form associations or unions, subject to any reasonable restrictions imposed by law in the interests of morality or public order." But it clearly added: "Provided that no person shall have the right to form, or be a member or otherwise take part in the activities of, any communal or other association or union which in the name or on the basis of any religion has for its object, or pursues, a political purpose." As revised under the Fifth Amendment, the Article said: "Every citizen shall have the right to form associations or unions, subject to any reasonable restrictions imposed by law in the interests of public order or public health." The amendment scrapped the original Article 12, which enshrined "secularism" and "freedom of religion" in the supreme law of the land. Earlier, by a proclamation, the martial law regime made other major changes in the constitution as well. The Preamble to the constitution was preceded by the religious invocation, "Bismillah-ar-Rahman-ar-Rahim" (in the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful). In the text of the Preamble, the words "a historic struggle for national liberation" were replaced with "a historic war for national independence." The phrase mentioning "nationalism, socialism, democracy and secularism" as the "high ideals" in the second paragraph was replaced with "absolute trust and faith in Almighty Allah, nationalism, democracy and socialism meaning economic and social justice." Article 8 of the original constitution - laying down nationalism, socialism, democracy and secularism as the four fundamental principles of state policy - was amended to omit "secularism" and replace it with "absolute trust and faith in Almighty Allah." In repeated pronouncements, Zia also substituted "Bangladeshi nationalism" for the "Bengali nationalism" of the Mujib days that stressed a non-religious identity. Lt.-Gen. Hussain Muhammad Ershad, who staged yet another coup and ruled Bangladesh during 1982-86, carried Zia's initiative forward by making Islam the "state religion" through the Eighth Amendment. The battle between the secular and anti-secular camps continued through all this, and became more open after the country's return to democracy in 1991. The Awami League (AL), headed by Mujib's daughter Sheikh Hasina Wajed, has always fought for abrogation of the Fifth Amendment. The Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP), founded by Zia and now led by his widow Begum Khaleda Zia, and its allies pursuing religion-based politics have remained uncompromising supporters of the amendment. The AL and its allies scored a legal victory in August 2005, when the country's High Court held the amendment unconstitutional. The court said: "These changes (made by the Fifth Amendment) were fundamental in nature and changed the very basis of our war for liberation and also defaced the constitution altogether." It added that the amendment transformed secular Bangladesh into a "theocratic state" and "betrayed one of the dominant causes for the war of liberation." The government in Dhaka, then a coalition of the BNP and the religion-based Jamaat-i-Islami (JeI), moved a petition in the Supreme Court against the ruling. The order was stayed and the issue of the amendment was put on the back burner, where it stayed for four years. Then came a major political change. A year ago, on January 6, 2009, Hasina returned as prime minister after a landslide electoral victory. In early May 2009, the AL government withdrew the old, official petition for staying the 2005 court ruling. The BNP-JeI alliance was quick to react. BNP Secretary General Khondker Delwar Hossain and three lawyers from the JeI rushed to the Supreme Court with petitions seeking to protect the amendment. Their petitions have been thrown out. The JeI and other religion-based groups did not endear themselves to the country, as the results of the last general election showed, with their violent activities. The serial bombing they carried out across Bangladesh in 2005, taking a heavy toll of human lives, did not help the BNP return to power through the ballot box. The period 2001-06, when the BNP-led alliance wielded power, witnessed "unprecedented" atrocities against religious and ethnic minorities, according to Bangladeshi rights activist Shahriar Kabir. The victims included Hindus, Ahmediyas and other communities and the atrocities ranged from killings and rapes to destruction and desecration of places of worship. After the Supreme Court's verdict, Law Minister Shafique Ahmed has said that all religion-based parties should "drop the name of Islam from their name and stop using religion during campaigning." He has also announced that religion-based parties are going to be "banned." The government, however, has disavowed any intention to remove the Islamic invocation from the Preamble of the constitution. All this has already drawn attention in Pakistan, which has continued to suffer from religion-based politics despite its popular rejection in successive elections. Veteran Pakistani columnist Babar Ayaz, in an article captioned "Amendments for a secular constitution" in the Lahore-based Daily Times, talks of the clauses in Pakistan's constitution, introduced by former dictator Zia ul-Haq "who considered himself a kind of religious guardian of the country." Noting the moves in Bangladesh, Ayaz adds: "Pakistan may not be able to ban religion-based political parties in the near future, but it should move towards expunging the ridiculous constitutional clauses mentioned above ... It would be a long and hard struggle, but it is doable." Bangladesh is in for a long and hard struggle, too. The BNP has threatened an agitation against the changes. It is likely to combine this with a campaign against India (under whose pressure Hasina is alleged to be acting), and New Delhi can be counted upon to keep providing grist to Khaleda's political mill with Big Brother-like actions widely resented in Bangladesh. There are also limits to which a constitution alone can counter religion-based politics. The far right's activities in India, proud of its staunchly secular constitution, furnishes just one example. The significance of what is happening in Bangladesh, however, cannot be belittled either. It demonstrates the far greater role popular will can play in combating religion-based politics than cluster bombs and drones. Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW!. Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. 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