TURKMAN: Like all Mollaas you have declared me a Non Moslim and even told me now that I am a Jew. Where does it say in Qoraan or HaDees to do this if you really follow Islam? Get lost illiterate un-civilized Mollaaa ...!
One last thing. Islam is a strict monotheistic faith (Like Judaism). If one calls Allah (SWT) as "gods of Islam" he or she automatically declares himself/herself outside the boundary of Islam. Therefore, it was you who has gotten yourself out of our faith. I have responded based on your declaration. You do not respect anything Islamic anyway. Why even bother with this religion?
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks like a duck......it is a damn DUCK!!
I'll not waste my time on this anymore. I made my point. References were given to initial questions of yours. Gotta pay me like a psychiatrist to listen to this sort of garbage and unresolved issues of yours. Have a nice life.
Shalom.
From: S Turkman <turkman@sbcglobal.net>
To: qrahman@netscape.net; alochona@yahoogroups.comi
Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2010 8:34 am
Subject: American Muslims Nine Years After 9/11
From: "qrahman@netscape.net" <qrahman@netscape.net>
.
TURKMAN: I am not new in USA. I have been in USA since 1973. Were you born before that? In 19073, when I was visiting one of my 'daisi' friend in Michigan, who was living with his wife's White American Parents, one of his little brother in law had tried to make fun of his accent. Her mother had scorned him and asked, Can you speak language of another country like him? ... My Children went to school here and I know, what they were taught. There are good and bad people in every nation and most of Americans do not think, Tea Party people represent them. In Bangladesh we have a lot more prejudiced people than in USA and if you are a fair judge, you would not deny this. I have not found any discrimination based on accent of a person in USA. The US Army Chief before Gen. Colin Powel was born in Poland and could not catch US Accent because he was not young enough to do that. There have been 5 Foreign Born Moslim Immigrants, who spoke with accent and have served as US Ambassadors. There are US Congressmen (National Assembly Members) who were not born in USA and speak English with Accent. Moslim Imams have inaugurated start of US Congress more than once with their recitation of Qoraan and Sermon given in their own Accent. Has any of such stuff taken place in any Moslim Country? Which Moslim country accepts Non Moslim Immigrants and gives them equal rights as their own citizens?
---------
.
TURKMAN: You must be living with some low life Americans or could be driving a Taxi then because there you can find a lot of those kind of people.
-----------------
The 'Convivencia' of Jews and Muslims in the High Middle Ages
Muslim Spain [ From BBC]
.
TURKMAN: But when did I say Arabs had ruled Spain badly or had forced Islam on Christians?
---------------------
.
TURKMAN: But why is this not the point, when you people are using those protests to spread hate against USA and Americans, when all Americans are not against that Project and only a small minority of them is? Does this not show your prejudice against the most tolerant nation of the world? Authorities have not stopped that project. Why are you so worried and there is a campaign going on Internet for that Mosque like its being demolished? You have not provided me answer to my question,"Why were all nations of North Africa slaughtered if Islam was not being forced in the world by Sword?"
-----------------------
.
TURKMAN: You have a rigfht to have your opinion.
-----------------
.
TURKMAN: What I wanted to know, why do I have to do that.
----------------
.
TURKMAN: I did not create MS but that is no excuse to keep confusing the English Speaking world by mis-spelling our words. 'Mullah' means a Boat Skipper or a Seaman in Arabic. Why did you write 'Mollaa' as 'Mullah'? In Arabic Script this word had no 'H' in 'Mollaa', Meem (M) with paish or sound of 'O', Laam with tashDeeD or double sound of 'L' and Alif. Why are you putting an 'H'. Where the hell are you getting sound of 'U' in it? Find me any word in English Language, where Mull or Mu and double of any word, where 'U' gives sound of 'O' ...! Does it say in Qoraan or Hadees to write our words wrong in other languages to have fun with others?
-------------------
.
TURKMAN: All Moslims like you, who hate the countries they live in or hate their natives should be kicked out of those countries because they are committing a kind of Treason.
------------
.
TURKMAN: You are a liar. There are mosques there still. There was no violence unless Moslims had lied that they had converted to Christianity but they had not. Don't you have violence in Bangladesh and even between Moslims? What was that Military Operation in 1971 then? Had Isabella killed a million Moslims like Pak Army had or had she killed 2 million Moslim Kuirds as Iran, Iraq and Turkey has killed in last half century? Had she killed 2 million Black African Christian and Moslims as has Arab Sudanese in last 35 years? Give me a break ...!
---------------
She has shown the save level of savagery in the US to American Indians.
.If you know any scholars of American history, ask them about what happened to Native Americans when settlers arrived in the US. Any entry level minority studies course will teach you about it. Many Muslim slaves (From Africa) were coverted to Christianity. Alex Haley wrote a book called Roots about it). It seems like your vast knowledge skips a few chapter when it deals with Muslims.
.
TURKMAN: You have switched the subject again, which a normal practice of our Mollaas. Again your hate against American is vivid here. Why did you beg for Visa of such a Savage country? Why are you living amongst such Savage people? Why don't you go back to Bangladesh, when you hate them so much?
------------------
.
TURKMAN: Reaction against me was hostile on Bangla Forum, when I had written that ratio of Female Population is 95 to every 100 Males in Bangladesh. I was declared an Enemy of Moslims and Liar and was asked to provide my reference. I provided the B.D. Census Bureau link. They went to that site, reversed the ratio and posted that I was a liar because this is just opposite of what B.D. Census Bureau has. Later, I went on Paki Forums and told them about Statistics of all Moslim Countries, whereas only 6 other countries had less Female Population besides, India, China and Bhutan. Same was reaction and was asked about my reference. I provided them UN and CIA site. They not only changed numbers on those sites but also created a few Blogs of their own showing what they had done to those sites. Articles were blogged with fake Dr. so and so with Christian names saying, "Nature creates more Males than Females all around the world". Our people are not only liars but they are very malicious people, who would even commit fraud in name of Islam or defend their Un-Islamic character. I was offered to work on a high position by UN after my discovery and campaign but I could not because I have my own Business to run that I can not stop.
----------------------
.
TURKMAN: Female Moslim Ratio of 39 out 44 Moslim Countries is below 100 to 100 Males and in Middle East we have record low. In China its because 'One Family One Child' Policy but in India Female ratio (94) is higher than Pakistan (92), Afghanistan (93) and all Gulf countries except Iran. Ommah has a shortage of about 40 million Females all around the world even adjusting for the Central Asian Countries, where IQ level and Literacy Rate is higher and Moslims are not in control of our Mollaas. Its higher but not but much there either. The highest ratio 106 in Azerbaijan, when Allah creates around 108 Females after 100 Males. This proves, 'not just some' Moslims are killers of their Wives and Daughters. Just in Pakistan 2.7 million Females are killed every year. BD ratio is much lower.
-----------------------
.
TURKMAN: I know but did he really ended up stopping us from continuing on?
---------------
.
TURKMAN: I am an American now and so are my US born children. I came to study here and go back but I found Americans more Moslim in Character than Moslims in BD. Can you deny that? Can you blame me for not going back?
-----------------
.
TURKMAN: Like all Mollaas you have declared me a Non Moslim and even told me now that I am a Jew. Where does it say in Qoraan or HaDees to do this if you really follow Islam? Get lost illiterate un-civilized Mollaaa ...!
From: S Turkman <turkman@sbcglobal.net>
From: "qrahman@netscape.net" <qrahman@netscape.net>
Probably Abdus Sattar Ghazali is not part of this forum. Mr. Isa Khan forwarded this article.
we used to laugh off our stupid Mollaas instead of becoming Sneak Attack Terrorists.
Like all religions there are bad mullahs and good mullahs. If you used to laugh off at someone because of their dress (Assuming Mullahs and connecting their IQ with their attire) shows your own IQ. I won't brag about it if I were you. Actually I would be ashamed if I chose to discriminate people based on their appearance. Maybe some other people will laugh at you or treat you badly because how you look or your English pronunciation. Don't think you would enjoy such treatment........
.
TURKMAN: You do in Rome, what Roman does. I do not provide any chance to make people laugh at me in USA. You people do wearing KorTaa Salwar. Americans are most tolerant people in the world. They do not laugh at anybody's accent. Why are you pulling all this in to it? Which Mollaas are not prejudiced against Non Moslims? Which Mollaas are not nuts about JehaaD? May be 1 in 100.
--------------------
They are at war with Christians in the West, we were not.
American Muslims are not directly responsible for their current status. Some fanatic minority in other corner of the world making life hell for all Muslims all over the world. We just have to be proactive and sincere with ignorant non-Muslims. Allah gave high status to Christians in the noble Qur'an and we are NOT at war with Christians ( Source: Al Qur'an 5:32, 2:69). There are good and bad people in all communities, Christians are no different.
.
TURKMAN: Not you or me but majority of Moslims are sympathizers of Terrorists in USA and abroad.
-------------------------
Why they had to pick this Mosque Project so near the Monument about to be built for Martyrs of your Savage Attack on USA?
Why are you blaming all Muslims for act of few?
.
TURKMAN: Because I see hundreds of Moslims protesting Anti Mosque people and almost all Moslims are for Cordoba Project.
-----------------------
As stated by imam Rauf { Initiator of Cordoba project}, the project is two blocks away from ground zero (NOT on ground zero) and they obtained necessary permits from local authorities (It is a misnomer to call it a "ground zero mosque").
.
TURKMAN: Would any Moslim Country issue a Permit 2 Blocks away from such a site in similar situation?
------------------------
As honest tax paying Americans, they have every right to build community center (Aimed at better understanding among faith traditions) at location of their choice.
.
TURKMAN: Oh sure, Immigrants arriving in USA have all the rights and not the people, who built this country they are reaping fruits of. In which Moslim Country forget about Immigrants, even Non Moslims have such rights?
-----------------------------
If your knowledge of American law is at par with Sarah Palin or hypocrite Newt Gingrich that would be truly sad. If at the end Muslims decide to back off, it would be nice gesture but not necessary.
.
TURKMAN: True but not what Islam says.
-------------------------
If you want to criticize Muslims ( not Moslims) here, you are welcome. I would request you to update your knowledge of Islam. It would be more credible. Otherwise it looks like you are just ranting.
.
TURKMAN: Gee, thanks for your permission on this Non Moslim owned US Media. Please tell me, how would you consider my Knowledge of Islam? Should I quote a HaDees or Verse of Qoraan after writing every sentence, sir or I will have to get my every post approved by some Mosque Imam? I spell, Muslim, 'Moslim' because 'Muslim' is pronounced 'Maslim' in English. Are we conversing in English or Bangla?
-------------------------
Why this was called 'Cordoba Project', Codoba, a city of Spain, from where Moslim Minority ruled Christian Spain for centuries and collected Protection Money, called 'Jiziya'?
The name Cordoba was chosen because it was one of those places, where minorities thrived under Muslim rule.
.
TURKMAN: Christians were a Minority in Spain? If this is level of your knowledge about Islamic History, why are you telling me to update my knowledge, sir? Couldn't you read? Had I not written Moslims, 'Moslim Minority'? .... Why that so called thriving Christian Majority that you call 'minority' had revolted against us and kicked us the "Occupiers" of Spain out if it was really 'thriving' and it did not have to pay Protection Money called 'Jiziya', sir?
------------------------------
Specially people from Jewish faith. Jewish scholars still calls that time as their "Golden age".
.
TURKMAN: Could you tell us names of those Jewish Scholars, please to prove that you are not lying ...!
---------------------
They were marginalized all over Europe and other prominent places.
.
TURKMAN: The richest Traders in the world, the Merchants of Europe, who invented Banking, so rich, they used to Loan Money to even our Turkish Caliph were 'marginalized'? Why are you lying, sir?
-------------------------
One of the greatest Jewish philosopher Maimonides wrote his work in Arabic during Muslim rule in Spain.
.
TURKMAN: But you are writing in English. Talk about now. We live in today, not past. Not glories of the past, please ...!
-------------------
The fact Muslims remained a minority after 800 years of absolute power shows they NEVER forced religion on common people. No other faith tradition shown such level of tolerance towards minority groups.
.
TURKMAN: Oh yeah, yeah, we all were forced to convert to Christianity during British rule of India all Christian countries we emigrate to for a better living we are forced to convert to Christianity, right. Moslims never forced anybody to convert, right? Then, what happened to nations of North Africa that had refused to convert? Had not we looted them, slaughtered them all and enslaved their Households after occupying North Africa? If we did not do that, what happened to all those nations and North Africa is still occupied by descendants of Arab Settlers. Why their languages had become extinct and everybody speaks Arabic there?
--------------------
For example, Muslims and Jews were forcefully ousted from Spain after Christian king and queen took over.
.
TURKMAN: They were told to convert or leave because they had occupied Spain long enough. Is any Non Moslim Country expelling Moslims now like Non Moslims are being expelled by our discrimination and bigotry against them in most of our countries even now in this 21st Century world? No. Then, how come there are so many Bangladeshi Hindu Immigrants in India?
-----------------------
Right after Muslims were forcefully ousted by Catholic Monarchs Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile (Who funded Columbus and it lead to discovery of America) Muslims and Jewish people were given limited choices. They were asked to convert, face death ( If they chose not to!) or leave their homeland forever!! This is known as inquisition to historians. Also see this link on the topic.
.
TURKMAN: I know, Inquisition was mainly against the Reformers of Christianity by Pope and that had later caused birth of Protestants. Religious questions were asked in Inquisitions. Moslims and Jews did not face those questions but every state of Europe had not expelled Moslims. They were accepted in other Christian states.
----------------------------
It is interesting that, at that time Christian lands were not a choice of destination for Jews but Muslims opened their land and houses for Jews. Please click here to enhance your knowledge of history.
.
TURKMAN: Well, then how come more Jews had emigrated to Christian Cyrillic Script using countries of Europe than any Moslim states? How come population of Jews is many times higher in Europe than in Moslim Countries? How many Jews you have in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, etc?
-----------------------
Jiziya tax was taken for two different reasons. Unlike any other community minorities were allowed to practice civil laws among themselves [ There very allowed a different court system with judges from their faith tradition]. Muslim governments used to bear expenses for those parallel court systems.
.
TURKMAN: Provide us proof of that ...! Why the hell you have to lie so much?
-----------------------
Under Islamic law, it was mandatory for Muslims to join army if country was attacked.
.
TURKMAN: Then, why had Moslims stopped doing that and why had been Non Moslim Turks imported from Central Asia to defend Baghdad, when Moslims had gotten so rich by looting other nations? Why then, when they became a feared power, they were settled in Buffer Zone between Byzantine Empire's Rum (now called Turkey) and present Iraq?
--------------------
It was NOT mandatory for non-Muslims. The Jizya tax gave them "protected" status.
.
TURKMAN: Well, its not mandatory for Moslims to join Army in the West and they have 'Protected Status' because of laws of the West, should not Moslim Immigrants and Moslims living in India etc be told to pay Protection Money also now? How come no Colonial Powers had collected Protection Money or that 'Jugga Tax' from us, when they were ruling us? Why don't you admit that was unfair to collect ten times higher than Moslims from Non Moslims?
------------------------
Besides reasonably rich Muslims had to pay Zakat but it did not apply to non-Muslims. Now we live in 21st century sadly I have to read news that, minorities in my country [with "Secular" aspiration] still cannot offer the level of protection to my non-Muslim brothers and sister given by Muslims to minorities hundreds of years ago. Now we (Muslims and non-Muslims) all pay taxes but our assets or lives are not protected. Please click here to learn more about this topic.
.
TURKMAN: Could the reason be that even after 1400 years preaching of our Mollaas were still the same old Savages that we were in 7th Century? Have we stopped killing our Wives and Daughters? Is not shortage of Female population in the world 40 million less than Male population. Check this out ...!
----------------------
NOW I hope you got the lbackground information on what motivated the Cordoba name and project.
.
TURKMAN: No because you have just posted some lies and my facts remain valid.
-------------------
The most ignorant and idiotic people are opposed to such project. Which only aimed to promote better understanding and tolerance among faith traditions.
.
TURKMAN: I know, I know, What you mean. You people are not here in USA because you are tolerant. You are here to have a better life and conquer this country.
-------------------
I hope if you see any dumb a$$es saying stupid things about such noble intention, you will be kind enough to educate them on history of Islam.
.
TURKMAN: Conquering USA is a Noble intention? Then, deporting all of you back should be Noble also.
------------------
Answer me Ghazali ...!
Since Gazzali has better things to do than answering to insults and rant. As a fellow countryman (Assuming you are from Bangladesh! please correct me if I am wrong) I tried to explain. I hope I was some help.
Peace.
.
TURKMAN: I know, anybody opens his mouth to say something you gods of Islam do not want to hear 'insults and rants'. What's new?
------------------
From: ANDREWL <turkman@sbcglobal.net>
.
Now all the good reputation that we had created for Moslims in USA is gone because of these stupid people, who want to thank generosity of Americans only by antagonizing them and seeking every kind of JehaaD against USA and Americans. They are at war with Christians in the West, we were not.
.
Why they had to pick this Mosque Project so near the Monument about to be built for Martyrs of your Savage Attack on USA?
Which Moslim Country would permit its Immigrant Christians to build a Church near a Monument being built in the Memory of Victims of Savage Attack of Christian Immigrants?
Answer me Ghazali ...!
Why this was called 'Cordoba Project', Codoba, a city of Spain, from where Moslim Minority ruled Christian Spain for centuries and collected Protection Money, called 'Jiziya'?
Doesn't it tell, what dream is in the mind of starter of this project?
Answer me Ghazali ...!
--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Isha Khan <bdmailer@...> wrote:
>
> American Muslims Nine Years After 9/11
> By Abdus Sattar Ghazali
>
>
> *T*he seven-million strong American Muslim community, under siege since the
> ghastly tragedy of 9/11, is challenged in recent months with a growing
> anti-Islam and anti-Muslim bigotry sparked by the opposition to the planned
> Park51 project popularly known as the Ground Zero Mosque in Manhattan, New
> York. The inflammatory rhetoric surrounding the project, actually a cultural
> center and already approved by the New York City Planning Commission, has
> stirred hatred toward Muslims in America.
>
> There has been so much fear-mongering and so much misinformation in the
> debate peddled by bigots and rightwing politicians. The constant
> vilification of Islam and Muslims over the air on radio talk shows, in
> newspapers and the Internet is contributing to the rise in anti-Muslim
> sentiment across the country.
>
> The hate speech and fear-mongering has resulted in hate crimes against
> Muslims and their prayer centers. At least three anti-Muslim acts were
> reported in one day, on August 24. In New York, taxi driver Ahmed H. Sharif
> was stabbed after the passenger asked the driver "Are you Muslim?" When the
> driver said yes, the man slashed him with a knife on the throat, arm and
> face. The same night a drunk man barged into a Queens (New York) mosque and
> shouted anti-Muslim slurs at the congregation during the nightly Tarawee
> prayers. He then proceeded to urinate on the prayer rugs. Anti-Muslim acts
> are not limited to New York. Several thousand miles away in Madera,
> California, a mosque was vandalized with a sign reading 'Wake up America,
> the enemy is here.' Tellingly, earlier last month, a mock pig inscribed with
> "No Mosque in NYC" was left at a California Islamic center. It was also
> inscribed with "Remember 9-11" and "MO HAM MED the Pig."
>
> Amid growing anti-Muslim sentiment—stirred up by a raging debate over the
> Ground Zero mosque, at least two more incidents were reported till August
> 31. In New York State's tiny town, Carlton, five teenagers harassed
> worshippers at the town mosque. The teenagers were charged with disrupting
> religious services at the mosque after they honked their car horns and
> yelled obscenities during one prayer service, and fired a weapon outside of
> another. In the Nashville suburb of Murfreesboro (Tennessee) a fire was
> reported at the site of a planned Islamic center and mosque. More
> alarmingly, gunshots were fired when the community members arrived to
> inspect the site.
>
> All these hate incidents come in an atmosphere of near anti-Muslim hysteria
> that is currently being generated by the feverish discourse and manufactured
> controversy over the Ground Zero mosque. It is generating anti-Muslim and
> anti-Islam public sentiments. A poll on August 29 by the extreme right San
> Diego, California 760 KFMB AM talk radio station indicated that 70% of those
> polled are in favor of forced registration for American Muslims in a
> national database. The same day a poll conducted by Chris Matthews show at
> the MSNBC revealed that more than half of Republicans polled say they have a
> negative attitude toward Islam, this compared to only 27% of Democrats. A
> PEW Institute poll result released on August 24 corroborated the findings of
> Chris Mathews show. By more than two-to-one (54% to 21%), Republicans
> expressed an unfavorable opinion of Islam and by more than four-to-one (74%
> to 17%), Republicans say they agree more with those who object to the
> building of the Ground Zero Mosque. By contrast, more Democrats agree with
> the center's supporters than its opponents (by 47% to 39%).
>
> One may ask. If the feverish discourse about the so-called Ground Zero
> mosque is only about the building of a new mosque or something else? To
> borrow, Stephan Salisbury of Tom Dispatch, the mosque controversy is not
> really about a mosque at all; it's about the presence of Muslims in America,
> and the free-floating anxiety and fear that now dominate the nation's
> psyche. The dark stain of anti-Islam and anti-Muslim bigotry or Islamophobia
> had spread far and wide long before the controversy erupted. As Salisbury
> pointed out, "those opposing the construction of the center in New York City
> are drawing on what amounts to a decade of government-stoked xenophobia
> about Muslims, now gathering strength and visibility in a nation full of
> deep economic anxieties and increasingly aggressive far-right grassroots
> groups."
>
> Since 9/11, there has been a steady rise in Islamophobia, however recent
> months have seen exponential rise of anti-Islam and anti-Muslim bigotry.
> Many Religious Right leaders and opportunist politicians assert over and
> over that Islam is not a religion at all but a political cult, that Muslims
> cannot be good Americans and that mosques are fronts for extremist
> `jihadis.' Over the course of the past year there has been a substantial
> increase in the number of political candidates using Islamophobic tactics in
> an effort to leverage votes, and use such tactics as a platform to enhance
> their political visibility.
>
> Few examples: A Minnesota Republican congressional candidate, Lynne
> Torgerson, says that the religion of Islam cannot be protected by the First
> Amendment to the United States Constitution. Tennessee Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey,
> one of three Republican candidates running for governor, says Islam may be
> called a "cult" instead of a religion. Ron McNeil, a Florida congressional
> candidate tells local high and middle class students that Islam is against
> everything America stands for. Another Florida Republican candidate for
> Congress, Dan Fanelli, runs television ads in which he points to a white man
> and asks, "Does this look like a terrorist?" and then turns to an
> Arab-looking man and asks, "Or this?" A Texas congressional hopeful, Canyon
> Clowdus, wants no more Muslim immigration to America. The American Family
> Association also wants a halt to the immigration of Muslims into the U.S. to
> "protect our national security and preserve our national identity, culture,
> ideals and values." In Oklahoma an anti-Muslim measure is being pushed for
> November ballot.
>
> Alarmingly, allegations of anti-Muslim bias are being leveled against the
> U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, that advises the
> president and other government officials on issues related to religious
> freedom worldwide. The Washington Post has quoted some past commissioners,
> staff and former staff of the Commission as saying that the agency is rife,
> behind-the-scenes, with ideology and tribalism, with commissioners focusing
> on pet projects that are often based on their own religious background. In
> particular, they say an anti-Muslim bias runs through the commission's work.
>
> *Burning of the Quran stunt*
>
> Desecration of the Quran, Islam's holy book, is another method of bigotry.
> Anti-Islam and anti-Muslim Pastor Terry Jones of a tiny Florida Church,
> known as the Dove World Outreach Center, planned to commemorate 9/11 by
> burning copies of the Holy Quran. He abandoned the Quran burning stunt when
> US Secretary of Defense phoned him saying that his provocative act would
> inflame the Muslim world and jeopardize the lives of American troops now
> deployed in many Muslim countries. However, Jones message was not lost to
> many. Torn pages of the Quran were found on Saturday (9/10) at the front of
> the Islamic Center of East Lansing, Michigan. Some of the pages appeared to
> be smeared with feces.
>
> Amid heightened hate speech and fear-mongering mosques in California,
> Tennessee, New York, Illinois, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Texas, and Florida have
> faced vocal opposition or have been targeted by hate incidents in recent
> months. In the most recent incidents, on 9/11 eve, vandals spray-painted
> "9-11" on windows and countertops at the Muslim owned Jaffa Market in
> Columbus, Ohio. Some cash and a laptop computer were stolen, while several
> display cases were vandalized. Just after midnight on Wednesday (9/8), back
> wall of the Hudson Islamic Center in New York was pained with slur "sand
> n**gers" and an obscenity. Last week also, a Phoenix mosque under
> construction was vandalized. Paint was spilled on the floor and several
> tall, arched glass windows were broken by what appeared to be gunshots.
> There was also anti-Muslim graffiti. The same mosque was vandalized in
> February last.
>
> The presence of mosques and the building of new mosques have become a
> divisive issue in several communities across the country in recent years. A
> church may be a church, and a temple a temple, but through the prism of
> emotion that grips many Americans, a decade after 9/11, a mosque can
> apparently represent a lot of things.
>
> *Eid Al Fitr celebrations scaled back *
>
> This year the seven million strong American Muslim community scaled back the
> Eid Al Fitr celebrations at the end of the fasting month of Ramadan, which
> fell just one day before the 9/11 anniversary. Islamic civic advocacy groups
> worried that the proximity of Eid Al Fitr with 9/11 anniversary will
> increase suspicion and hostility towards Muslims at a time when feelings
> towards their religion are already running high.
>
> The Council of Muslim Organizations in Washington DC called on all US
> Islamic centers, schools and organizations to refrain from holding Eid Al
> Fitr celebrations. The Council said the move was out of respect for the
> victims of the 9/11 attacks.
>
> Muslim leaders feared that the celebrations might have been mistakenly -- or
> deliberately – misconstrued. "Definitely there are people who would like to
> make us look like we are celebrating on 9/11 and we are not going to let
> them," said Imam Johari Abdul-Malik, Director of Outreach at the Dar Al
> Hijrah Islamic Center, Washington DC.
>
> Many Muslims believed that sensitivity toward the anniversary of September
> 11 is crucial since this has been a tense summer for Muslims in the US due
> to the controversy over the Grand Zero mosque.
>
> The Islamic Cultural Center of Fresno, California announced cancellation of
> its Eid al-Fitr carnival on Sept. 11. For the past several years, the
> Islamic Cultural Center had celebrated Eid al-Fitr with a carnival on the
> first Saturday after the holiday, when the potential is greater for large
> attendance. Center officials said the cancellation was an acknowledgment
> that any celebration could be misinterpreted and also could be seen by some
> as insensitivity to the remembrance of 9/11.
>
> With anti-Muslim rhetoric reaching epic proportions in broader U.S. society
> -- largely tolerated, rarely condemned – the American Muslim community
> remains optimistic that the current campaign which is partly driven by the
> forthcoming elections will eventually subside since the religious freedom is
> a founding principle of this country and the main catalyst for its origins
> in the early seventeenth century. This principle was emphatically reiterated
> by President George Washington in his 1790 letter to the Jews of Rhode
> Island who built the Touro Synagogue:
>
> "The citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud
> themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal
> policy -- a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of
> conscience and immunities of citizenship….The Government of the United
> States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance,
> requires only that they who live under its protection should demean
> themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual
> support."
>
> When President Washington wrote this letter 220 years back, he must have
> been aware of the effect it would have on the fledgling nation.
>
> *Abdus Sattar Ghazali *is the Executive Editor of the online magazine
> American Muslim Perspective:
> *www.amperspective.com*<;http://www.amperspective.com/>Email:
> *asghazali786@...*
>
__._,_.___
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Monday, September 27, 2010
[ALOCHONA] Re: American Muslims Nine Years After 9/11
>>>>> Just to clarify I write "Shalom" ( Means peace in Hebrew) under most of my mails. That does not mean I am calling people Jews. It seems like you are not interested in discussion but need to vent your "Problems/mental issues" unto people you do not know. Maybe you had bad experiences with some mullah and treat everyone like a Mullah if they disagree with you. Very UN-American !!
-----Original Message-----
My comments are inserted below.
Dear Alochok,
Scholars, please to prove that you are not lying ...!
>>>>>>>>>At least read my mail first and it is not nice to assume people are lying to you. It seems like you have not read my mail but kept up with ranting. Not a civilized way to talk to people IMHO...
You do not know me and know nothing about me but you ASSumed that I wear some kurta salwar or I am a "Mullah". I see a disturbing pattern here, what is your real problem?
Americans are most tolerant people in the world.
>>>> I agree. Americans are very open people. That is why when I see some of my fellow countrymen color all Americans under one brush ( The same way you portray Musllahs!), I protest and try to corrent them. I have done in right here in Alochona forum.
They do not laugh at anybody's accent.
>>>>> With all due respect, maybe you are new to the states or do not mix with "Average" Americans. Once you spend enough time to spend with "All Amerian" faces you will learn with time. If you do not wish t wait that long, just go to any "Tea-party" meetings. That will do it for ya....
Thanks for making me laugh. Americans do tolerate people but also laugh at them ......
I have stated here "Jewish golden age" refers to spain under Muslim rule. Why do not just Google it and look it up? Albeit I gave quite a few sources but It seems like you are not likly to trust anything I am saying anyway. Just for the kicks I'll throw in a few links ( For others)....
By Mark R. Cohen
Paper given at Children of Abraham: Trialogue of Civilizations (2007)
Introduction: The notion of "convicencia" was invented by Spanish historians to describe Christians, Jews, and Muslims living together more or less peacefully in medieval Christian Spain. But the concept, if not the word itself, has equally been applied to Jewish-Muslim coexistence in the medieval Arabic-speaking Islamic world. Also commonly known as the "Golden Age" of Jewish-Muslim harmony, the idea especially pertains to Islamic Spain, from the mid-10th to mid-12th centuries, but it extends to the Judaeo-Arabic symbiosis in the entire Islamic world.......................please click here for more
Melvyn Bragg and guests discuss Muslim Spain. In 711 a small army of North African Berbers invaded Spain and established an Iberian Islamic culture that would last for over 700 years.
Despite periods of infighting and persecution, Muslim Spain was a land where Muslims, Jews and Christians co-existed in relative peace and harmony. Its capital, Cordoba, although not unique amongst Spanish cities, became the centre and focus for generations of revered and respected philosophers, physicians and scholars. By the 10th century Cordoba was one of the largest cities in the world. But what some historians refer to as Cordoba's Golden Age came to an end in the 11th century, when the society was destabilised by new threats from Africa to the South and Christendom to the North.
However, it was not until 1492, when Granada fell to the Catholic monarchs Ferdinand and Isabella, that Islamic Spain was well and truly over.In that same year the Jews were expelled from its shores and Christopher Columbus set sail to lead Spanish Christian expansionism into the new world.......... Please click here for more
I can go one but I think point was made. By the way, I have given some sources in my last mail as well. Kindly look it up.
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However at one place, I saw your point about minority issue under Muslim rule. Let me clarify it for ya.
Christians were majority under Muslim rule but Muslims ruled Europe (Southern part only) for around 800 years. History shows us they did not force religion upon local population. Non-Muslims were given legal system of their own and they lived in relative harmoney. Around that time it was common in Europe to forcefully convert people if you conquired their land. Mostly Muslims stated away from that evil practice.
When Jewish scholars refer to their "Golden age", it was the 'Dark age" of Europe according to historians. It was the time when southern Spain under Moorish ( People from Africa, Morocco etc) rule flurished in science, philosophy. People from all over Europe used to travel to Cordoba, Al-hambra or Grenada (Still wonder palaces exists in southern Spain) to learn. I see that you have access to internet, if you are genuinely interested to learn about Islamic history in Europe, I am sure you can look credible sources up.
TURKMAN: Would any Moslim Country issue a Permit 2 Blocks away from such a site in similar situation?
>>>>>>> Maybe but that is not the point. The project has local approval but it got ugly when politicians got involved. Since November there is a mid-term election coming, the "Tea-party" crowd is trying to score some political points by abusing and targeting Muslims in America. I think initially people of New York did not worry about it until Sarah Palin got involved.
People who initiated the "Cordoba" project did not violate any laws of the land. They are honest tax paying American citizens. If any of them did something wrong, I am sure authorities will look it up.
Please tell me, how would you consider my Knowledge of Islam?
>>>>>> Poor!! Need to learn more. Did not want to say it in your face but you asked and I answered.
Should I quote a HaDees or Verse of Qoraan after writing every sentence,.....
>>>>>>> It is a free world. If that is your style, you are welcome.
Had I not written Moslims,
>>>>> Yes you do that deliberately. Write "Moslims" instead of Muslims. If you ran a spell check in MS word, it would request you to change it but you kept up your misspell for some "Special" reason. If insulting others make you happy, please keep it up. I'll only say your style of communicating shows a lot about who you are. Initially I thought it was some honest mistake. Sometime I misspell some words, I thought it was something like that.
Is any Non Moslim Country expelling Moslims now
>>>>>>> Yes. Israel is doing that to native Palestinians right now. Serbia has done it few years ago. There are many examples.
I know, Inquisition was mainly against the Reformers of Christianity by Pope
>>>>>>> I am glad that you know it. Just missed the Spain part. Just look up what happened to Jews and Muslims of Spain. There was so much violence, they did not leave a single masjid in southern Spain under isabela.
Could the reason be that even after 1400 years preaching of our Mollaas were still the same old Savages that we were in 7th Century?
>>>>>>>> Yes, I agree with you. Muslims need to focus on proper Islamic education. So they do not torture our sisters. We need smart people like yourselves and others to get involved and take a lead in islamic education.
Have we stopped killing our Wives and Daughters? Is not shortage of Female population in the world 40 million less than Male population. Check this out ...!
>>>>>>>> I have to disagree with you here. Like any large religious community we have our share of problems but Muslims do not kill their wives or daughters en mass. That is a problem in India. Over half a million famale babies are aborted/killed every year after parents identify (By ultrasono) girl babies in India. That is why in India and China there are more male than female. Rest of the world ( Including Muslim majority countries) have more female population than male. I had a discussion about it with a non-Muslim friend of mine few years back and I looked up the information.
For your information, ancient arabs used to kill their girl babies (Infanticide). It was prophet Muhammad (PBUH) who stopped this evil practice in clear terms. If more Muslims are serious about practicing authentic Islam, we would have a better world.
TURKMAN: I know, I know, What you mean. You people are not here in USA because you are tolerant. You are here to have a better life and conquer this country.
>>>>>>> You people?? who are you?? Conquer the US? Are you out of your mind pal??
TURKMAN: I know, anybody opens his mouth to say something you gods of Islam do not want to hear 'insults and rants'. What's new?
>>>>>> " gods of Is
Please don't hold back your true feelings.
Now I know you are not a Muslim but that is OK.
Do you like to hear insults or rants? If the answer is yes, please see a doctor.
Shalom.
-----Original Message-----
My comments are inserted below.
Answer me Ghazali ...!
-----Original Message-----
Its all fault of our Mollaas. Before their illiterate followers arrived looking for a better life only us, students from upper class educated families were here from Moslim Countries, we used to laugh off our stupid Mollaas instead of becoming Sneak Attack Terrorists.
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