Dear Shafiq
Thanks for such an amicable reply.
This is a function of just how unhappy one is with our national
condition. Some can tolerate in silence, some can rationalise anything
and some can try to express their frustration. I understand the pulse of the gentleman who started this. I have the same feelings. Certainly our faith is sacred. But because I understand the pulse of the gentleman I did not find him sacreligious. If anything, I found his comments too mild. Wait till I attack Hasina and Khaleda in a religious vein :) Well. It will be nothing to smile about!
No one should be expected to admit their mistakes in a nation where it
is A DEFINING ASPECT OF THE CULTURE not to admit mistakes.
I say this as a challenge. This is how bad we are and how low we have
sunk. It is why we are in truth all liars - including myself. Because
none of us here and no one in Bangladesh really talks plainly about our true condition though we all know our true condition very well. We moderate our common understanding by being silent or by intellectualising and rationalising all manner of stupidity and wickedness. Its like we suffer from a mass syndrome like other far
greater nations have suffered in the past. Our syndrome goes like this: "I'm standing in sh#t. You are standing in sh#t. But lets not talk about it and pretend we're clean."
A 15 year old girl hangs upside down on a barbed wire fence at the
border for hours after being shot dead by a foreign gun. The ruling AL
is silent. The opposition BNP is silent. The religious right is silent. The Army is silent. And the public just writes letters.
But at least our religion is sacred! Man. I tell you. If Allah sends His retribution through a great flood its no wonder He will send the waters to Bangladesh first.
Who cares. Lets all enjoy the cricket.
Ezajur Rahman
Kuwait
--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, shafiq013@... wrote:
>
>
> Dear Mr. Ejaz
>
> I think we are drifting away from the original point but I agree more
> than 100% with your argument. I don't mind if someone is mocking the
> religiosity of others (Hasina, Khalida and you name it). But that too
> has a limit. Doing so, be careful that you are not mocking the
religion
> itself. Hey! I myself follow a religion but cannot claim I am
following
> it perfectly.
>
> The guy who started this argument, apparently, stepped out of his
> limits. I still want to give him the benefit of doubt, as he may have
> done it very inadvertently. All I want to emphasize and re-emphasize,
> don't be taken away out of the blind hatred (or blind love) of
> someone. Not everything in this world is moving in a way you would
like
> to be. (That does not mean at all that you should not criticize and
> point-out the wrongs, you have every right of it).
>
> With one last thing, I would like to close this argument. One should
> admit his faults. There is a saying in English language, "nobody but
> a fool is always right".
>
> With lot of love. I am writing this posting at 3 a.m. as I don't
> have much time to write during the day.
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Shafiq Ahmad
>
> --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "ezajur" Ezajur@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear Shafiq
> >
> > Thank you for a well reasoned reply.
> >
> > "A general avoidance of religious arguments cannot necessarily
> > prevent one from touching upon the religion of those who have
brought
> > such disaster upon us."
> >
> > What I am trying to say – and of course I could have phrased it
> > better – is that, bluntly:
> >
> > Just because I avoid religious argument due to the respect of 1)
every
> > religion 2) people's sensitivity and even 3) the nature of religion
> > itself, does not mean that I cannot mock a person's approach to his
> > religion when that person is heaping misery on so many people.
> >
> > This is entirely about mocking the person and not at all about
mocking
> > the religion.
> >
> > If someone has brought disaster upon us I am not saying we should
mock
> > his religion. Of course I am not saying that. I am claiming the same
> > religion as my own! But I am saying I can mock such a person's
> > approach to religion and use of religion. The religion itself is
just
> > fine.
> >
> > To remove any confusion I quote you: "If someone is a hypocrite, is
> > visiting Mecca and all, before and after elections, he is to be
blamed
> > and not his/her religion." It is perfectly said.
> >
> > But that does no mean that I am bound by ethics to refrain from
> mocking
> > his pilgrimage as he presides over murder, extortion, rape and
mayhem.
> > Rather, ethics requires us to highlight his religious hypocrisy.
> >
> > I agree with you about Jamaat.
> >
> > You are right, Zia puja and Tungipara tawafs are certainly not
caused
> by
> > any religion but by people. I never suggested anything different.
But
> I
> > must mock the puja of Zia and the tawafs of Tungipara!
> >
> > I am sensitive about your relationship with your religion and
indeed,
> > every person I have ever met. But it is my religious duty to mock
the
> > religiosity of Khaleda, Hasina and their blind party supporters.
> >
> > Islam is big enough, great enough and strong enough to not only
> tolerate
> > the use of religious terms in this context but also to drive the
> > rebellion against the hypocritical religiosity of the Bangladeshi
> > politician.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Ezajur rahman
> >
> > Kuwait
> >
> > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, shafiq013@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Mr. Ejaz
> > >
> > > You killed all the argument by your first sentence. "A general
> > > avoidance of religious arguments cannot necessarily prevent one
from
> > > touching upon the religion of those who have brought such disaster
> > upon
> > > us." How logical.
> > >
> > > Ethics says one should respect all religions. If anyone has
brought
> > any
> > > disaster upon you, why to touch his religion. Above all his/her
> > religion
> > > has not taught to bring disaster upon you. If someone is
hypocrite,
> is
> > > visiting Mecca and all, before and after elections, he is to be
> blamed
> > > and not his/her religion.
> > >
> > > I agree with you that "People are very sensitive about
> > > religion:… but not the blind party activist". But I will add
> > > here that it is not only the "blind party activist" but the
> > > blind opponents also. The guy, desperately, to mock someone,
> knowingly
> > > or unknowingly, has dragged in the religion. Had he not been that
> > > desperate, would have not done so.
> > >
> > > I totally disagree that there are no religious people leading AL
or
> > BNP.
> > > Only Allah knows the level of faith of a person. I and you are not
> to
> > > judge this. Also religion cannot be monopolized by political
parties
> > > like Jamaat.
> > >
> > > Again my friend, Zia puja and the tawafs at Tungipara has nothing
to
> > do
> > > with the religion of Islam or for that matter any other religion I
> > know.
> > > If somebody is doing it, he is to be blamed and not his religion.
> > >
> > > I am extremely sorry if I offended you but was curious to know why
> you
> > > are explaining. The argument was started by some other gentleman.
> > >
> > > Shafiq Ahmad
> > >
> > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "ezajur" Ezajur@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A general avoidance of religious arguments cannot necessarily
> > prevent
> > > > one from touching upon the religion of those who have brought
such
> > > > disaster upon us. It depends upon how bad one thinks the
situation
> > is.
> > > > One need not be sensitive about the religious feelings of those
> who
> > > practice
> > > > one set of ethics in public life and espouse a different set of
> > ethics
> > > > on the prayer mat. Rather, the verbal mocking of their
> > interpretation
> > > of
> > > > their faith is required in proportion to their mockery of the
> faith
> > in
> > > > public life.
> > > >
> > > > No on is mocking faith itself. And the words of the Quran are
more
> > > > messed upon by the visits of frauds to Shahjalal's grave before
> the
> > > > election and Holy Mecca after the election. Those who are most
> > > offended
> > > > by the use of religious terminology against the ethical values
of
> AL
> > > and
> > > > BNP are only blind activists of these parties.
> > > >
> > > > Religion is a very sensitive issue? Only for the religious. I
see
> no
> > > > religious people leading AL or BNP. The gravity of ritual prayer
> is
> > > not
> > > > enough to outweigh the gravity of ritual rottenness. People are
> very
> > > > sensitive about religion:
> > > >
> > > > … but not the blind party activist
> > > >
> > > > And even if he is, he sure isn't one willing to die for
something
> as
> > > > noble as religious principle. He's too dumb and too rotten for
> that.
> > > >
> > > > When religion will really takes offence at the assault upon its
> very
> > > > essence by our political culture you will know it my friend. For
> it
> > > > will not reply by email or argument. It will not complain about
> the
> > > use
> > > > of a word in the Quran to make a point against the current
> religious
> > > > hypocrisy of our leaders. Nor will the reply be defined by
idiots
> > who
> > > > don't know how to use a firecracker.
> > > >
> > > > And so Zia puja and the tawafs at Tungipara continue.
> > > >
> > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, shafiq013@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe you are coming to some senses now. When you don't
tend
> > to
> > > > > stray into religious arguments then why mock someone, who ever
> > > he/she
> > > > > may be, using religion. Understand that religion is a very
> > sensitive
> > > > > issue, people do die for religion but your faith seems very
> > strong.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, I do remember Arabic is a language. Bismillah_____ are
> words
> > of
> > > > > Quran. If you are Muslim as you claim you are, even if the
> purpose
> > > was
> > > > > to create some satire, you should refrain from disfiguring the
> > words
> > > > of
> > > > > Quran. (By the way bismilbangabandu....." does not mean "In
the
> > > > > name of Bangabandhu...."). But your faith seems very strong.
> > > > >
> > > > > Realize, this is a forum of very limited people. Not everyone
in
> > > > > Bangladesh and/or Bangladesh origin is readings all the
postings
> > in
> > > > this
> > > > > forum. People do ignore also considering it is coming from
> > _______.
> > > > You
> > > > > are right majority of Muslims in Bangladesh have shown no
> comments
> > > on
> > > > > your writing. The reason you know because your faith seems
very
> > > > strong.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Shafiq Ahmad
> > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Emanur Rahman" emanur@
wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I tend not to stray into religious arguments because they
are
> > > > somewhat
> > > > > > pointless. But as a Muslim I have to say that this is
> exemplary
> > of
> > > > why
> > > > > I
> > > > > > stay away from such arguments. The mention of Islam makes
some
> > > > people
> > > > > > super-sensitive. Why is that? Is our faith that weak?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please remember that Arabic is a language and as such, many
> > ideas
> > > > can
> > > > > be
> > > > > > expressed in it including a translation of "In the name of
> > > > > Bangabandhu...."
> > > > > > - I don't suggest that my satirical construct is accurate!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In any case, no disrespect of Islam was done in my piece. If
> > > > anything
> > > > > it
> > > > > > should have appealed to Muslim sentiment to recognize and
> reject
> > > > > idolatry
> > > > > > when its spitting in their face. The fact that so many are
> > unable
> > > to
> > > > > do so
> > > > > > suggests that there is a lack of Muslims in
Bangladesh....and
> if
> > > not
> > > > > > anything else, certainly they are not the majority!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:alochona@yahoogroups.com]
> > > On
> > > > > Behalf
> > > > > > Of shafiq013@
> > > > > > Sent: 04 February 2011 23:37
> > > > > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Naming Dhaka as" Mujib Nagar"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Really!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I thought Mismillah, Quran, prophet are part of a religion.
> The
> > > > > religion of
> > > > > > Islam.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Op! May be I am little bit old to understand it. If the
> mission
> > is
> > > > to
> > > > > > redicule someone, there are many other ways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So carry on. Carry on with your "very logical
extrapolations."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Shafiq Ahmad
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Emanur Rahman" emanur@
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't think this is bringing in religion. Rather its a
> very
> > a
> > > > > > logical extrapolation of the way that many regard
Bangabandhu.
> > It
> > > > > > demonstrates how ridiculous and perhaps dangerous this
concept
> > is.
> > > > It
> > > > > has
> > > > > > allowed many to sanitise, rationalise, obscure and generally
> > brush
> > > > > under the
> > > > > > carpet responsibility for the malaise that is our country
> today.
> > > It
> > > > > allows
> > > > > > us to settle for less.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, the majority of Bangladeshis are Muslim.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ergo the majority of Bangladeshis should be offended by
this
> > > > worship
> > > > > > and the immorality and corruption it breeds and feeds.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Joy Bangla...?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Emanur Rahman | m. +447734567561 | e. emanur@
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: shafiq013@
> > > > > > > Sender: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:54:22
> > > > > > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Reply-To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Naming Dhaka as" Mujib Nagar"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mr. Eman
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You frustration is understood. May be you are sour for
some
> > > > personal
> > > > > > > reasons. However, may I request you, very humbly, don't
drag
> > in
> > > > > > > religion in your discussion, at the least in this way. Not
> > only
> > > it
> > > > > > shows
> > > > > > > your disrespect to religion of Islam but also indicates
you
> > have
> > > > > > nothing
> > > > > > > much to say. Even if you are not a Muslim (though your
name
> > > > suggests
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > are), please show your respect to the religion of the
> majority
> > > in
> > > > > > > Bangladesh. You may hate Awami League or Sheikh Mujib for
> some
> > > > (may
> > > > > > be)
> > > > > > > valid reasons. You have every right to express your
> viewpoint
> > > but
> > > > it
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > really a shame to bring-in religion in this way.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Shafiq Ahmad
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Emanur Rahman" emanur@
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I agree although the Buriganga with its effluence and
> waste
> > > may
> > > > be
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > most appropriate choice.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I also propose that "Bismillah..." be removed from the
> > > > > constitution
> > > > > > > and replaced with "bismilbangabandu.....".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To seal the deal, all references to the Prophet should
be
> > > > removed
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > a new and official BAL version of the Quran as neither he
> nor
> > > the
> > > > > > > Almighty had any contribution to the glorious independence
> > war,
> > > > you
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > > the Bangabandhu v Pakistan war where one man single
handedly
> > > > > defeated
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > entire army.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Joy Bangla!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Emanur Rahman | m. +447734567561 | e. emanur@
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Sajjad Hossain shossain456@
> > > > > > > > Sender: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:29:17
> > > > > > > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Reply-To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Naming Dhaka as" Mujib Nagar"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In order to pay our indebtedness to Father of the
Nation,
> > > > > > Bangabondhu
> > > > > > > Sheikh
> > > > > > > > Mujibur Rahman I propose to change the name of Dhaka to
> > "Mujib
> > > > > > Nagar"
> > > > > > > > and "Bay of Bengal" to "Bay of Bangabondhu".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any comments from the Alochoks?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > SH
> > > > > > > > Toronto
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Disclaimer: ALOCHONA Management is not liable for
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> > > > > contained in
> > > > > > this message. The author takes full responsibility.] To
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> > > > > > Groups Links
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > If this email is spam, report it to
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
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