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Tuesday, February 8, 2011

[ALOCHONA] Re: Naming Dhaka as" Mujib Nagar"



Dear Shafiq

Thank you for a well reasoned reply.

"A general avoidance of religious arguments cannot necessarily prevent one from touching upon the religion of those who have brought such disaster upon us."

What I am trying to say – and of course I could have phrased it better – is that, bluntly:

Just because I avoid religious argument due to the respect of 1) every religion 2) people's sensitivity and even 3) the nature of religion itself, does not mean that I cannot mock a person's approach to his religion when that person is heaping misery on so many people.

This is entirely about mocking the person and not at all about mocking the religion.

If someone has brought disaster upon us I am not saying we should mock his religion. Of course I am not saying that. I am claiming the same religion as my own! But I am saying I can mock such a person's approach to religion and use of religion. The religion itself is just fine.

To remove any confusion I quote you:  "If someone is a hypocrite, is visiting Mecca and all, before and after elections, he is to be blamed and not his/her religion." It is perfectly said.

But that does no mean that I am bound by ethics to refrain from mocking his pilgrimage as he presides over murder, extortion, rape and mayhem. Rather, ethics requires us to highlight his religious hypocrisy.  

I agree with you about Jamaat.

You are right, Zia puja and Tungipara tawafs are certainly not caused by any religion but by people. I never suggested anything different. But I must mock the puja of Zia and the tawafs of Tungipara!  

I am sensitive about your relationship with your religion and indeed, every person I have ever met. But it is my religious duty to mock the religiosity of Khaleda, Hasina and their blind party supporters.

Islam is big enough, great enough and strong enough to not only tolerate the use of religious terms in this context but also to drive the rebellion against the hypocritical religiosity of the Bangladeshi politician.  

Regards

Ezajur rahman

Kuwait


--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, shafiq013@... wrote:
>
>
> Dear Mr. Ejaz
>
> You killed all the argument by your first sentence. "A general
> avoidance of religious arguments cannot necessarily prevent one from
> touching upon the religion of those who have brought such disaster upon
> us." How logical.
>
> Ethics says one should respect all religions. If anyone has brought any
> disaster upon you, why to touch his religion. Above all his/her religion
> has not taught to bring disaster upon you. If someone is hypocrite, is
> visiting Mecca and all, before and after elections, he is to be blamed
> and not his/her religion.
>
> I agree with you that "People are very sensitive about
> religion:… but not the blind party activist". But I will add
> here that it is not only the "blind party activist" but the
> blind opponents also. The guy, desperately, to mock someone, knowingly
> or unknowingly, has dragged in the religion. Had he not been that
> desperate, would have not done so.
>
> I totally disagree that there are no religious people leading AL or BNP.
> Only Allah knows the level of faith of a person. I and you are not to
> judge this. Also religion cannot be monopolized by political parties
> like Jamaat.
>
> Again my friend, Zia puja and the tawafs at Tungipara has nothing to do
> with the religion of Islam or for that matter any other religion I know.
> If somebody is doing it, he is to be blamed and not his religion.
>
> I am extremely sorry if I offended you but was curious to know why you
> are explaining. The argument was started by some other gentleman.
>
> Shafiq Ahmad
>
> --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "ezajur" Ezajur@ wrote:
> >
> > A general avoidance of religious arguments cannot necessarily prevent
> > one from touching upon the religion of those who have brought such
> > disaster upon us. It depends upon how bad one thinks the situation is.
> > One need not be sensitive about the religious feelings of those who
> practice
> > one set of ethics in public life and espouse a different set of ethics
> > on the prayer mat. Rather, the verbal mocking of their interpretation
> of
> > their faith is required in proportion to their mockery of the faith in
> > public life.
> >
> > No on is mocking faith itself. And the words of the Quran are more
> > messed upon by the visits of frauds to Shahjalal's grave before the
> > election and Holy Mecca after the election. Those who are most
> offended
> > by the use of religious terminology against the ethical values of AL
> and
> > BNP are only blind activists of these parties.
> >
> > Religion is a very sensitive issue? Only for the religious. I see no
> > religious people leading AL or BNP. The gravity of ritual prayer is
> not
> > enough to outweigh the gravity of ritual rottenness. People are very
> > sensitive about religion:
> >
> > … but not the blind party activist
> >
> > And even if he is, he sure isn't one willing to die for something as
> > noble as religious principle. He's too dumb and too rotten for that.
> >
> > When religion will really takes offence at the assault upon its very
> > essence by our political culture you will know it my friend. For it
> > will not reply by email or argument. It will not complain about the
> use
> > of a word in the Quran to make a point against the current religious
> > hypocrisy of our leaders. Nor will the reply be defined by idiots who
> > don't know how to use a firecracker.
> >
> > And so Zia puja and the tawafs at Tungipara continue.
> >
> > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, shafiq013@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I believe you are coming to some senses now. When you don't tend to
> > > stray into religious arguments then why mock someone, who ever
> he/she
> > > may be, using religion. Understand that religion is a very sensitive
> > > issue, people do die for religion but your faith seems very strong.
> > >
> > > Yes, I do remember Arabic is a language. Bismillah_____ are words of
> > > Quran. If you are Muslim as you claim you are, even if the purpose
> was
> > > to create some satire, you should refrain from disfiguring the words
> > of
> > > Quran. (By the way bismilbangabandu....." does not mean "In the
> > > name of Bangabandhu...."). But your faith seems very strong.
> > >
> > > Realize, this is a forum of very limited people. Not everyone in
> > > Bangladesh and/or Bangladesh origin is readings all the postings in
> > this
> > > forum. People do ignore also considering it is coming from _______.
> > You
> > > are right majority of Muslims in Bangladesh have shown no comments
> on
> > > your writing. The reason you know because your faith seems very
> > strong.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Shafiq Ahmad
> > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Emanur Rahman" emanur@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I tend not to stray into religious arguments because they are
> > somewhat
> > > > pointless. But as a Muslim I have to say that this is exemplary of
> > why
> > > I
> > > > stay away from such arguments. The mention of Islam makes some
> > people
> > > > super-sensitive. Why is that? Is our faith that weak?
> > > >
> > > > Please remember that Arabic is a language and as such, many ideas
> > can
> > > be
> > > > expressed in it including a translation of "In the name of
> > > Bangabandhu...."
> > > > - I don't suggest that my satirical construct is accurate!
> > > >
> > > > In any case, no disrespect of Islam was done in my piece. If
> > anything
> > > it
> > > > should have appealed to Muslim sentiment to recognize and reject
> > > idolatry
> > > > when its spitting in their face. The fact that so many are unable
> to
> > > do so
> > > > suggests that there is a lack of Muslims in Bangladesh....and if
> not
> > > > anything else, certainly they are not the majority!
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: alochona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:alochona@yahoogroups.com]
> On
> > > Behalf
> > > > Of shafiq013@
> > > > Sent: 04 February 2011 23:37
> > > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Naming Dhaka as" Mujib Nagar"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Really!
> > > >
> > > > I thought Mismillah, Quran, prophet are part of a religion. The
> > > religion of
> > > > Islam.
> > > >
> > > > Op! May be I am little bit old to understand it. If the mission is
> > to
> > > > redicule someone, there are many other ways.
> > > >
> > > > So carry on. Carry on with your "very logical extrapolations."
> > > >
> > > > Shafiq Ahmad
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Emanur Rahman" emanur@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't think this is bringing in religion. Rather its a very a
> > > > logical extrapolation of the way that many regard Bangabandhu. It
> > > > demonstrates how ridiculous and perhaps dangerous this concept is.
> > It
> > > has
> > > > allowed many to sanitise, rationalise, obscure and generally brush
> > > under the
> > > > carpet responsibility for the malaise that is our country today.
> It
> > > allows
> > > > us to settle for less.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, the majority of Bangladeshis are Muslim.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ergo the majority of Bangladeshis should be offended by this
> > worship
> > > > and the immorality and corruption it breeds and feeds.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joy Bangla...?
> > > > >
> > > > > Emanur Rahman | m. +447734567561 | e. emanur@
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: shafiq013@
> > > > > Sender: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:54:22
> > > > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Reply-To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Naming Dhaka as" Mujib Nagar"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Mr. Eman
> > > > >
> > > > > You frustration is understood. May be you are sour for some
> > personal
> > > > > reasons. However, may I request you, very humbly, don't drag in
> > > > > religion in your discussion, at the least in this way. Not only
> it
> > > > shows
> > > > > your disrespect to religion of Islam but also indicates you have
> > > > nothing
> > > > > much to say. Even if you are not a Muslim (though your name
> > suggests
> > > > you
> > > > > are), please show your respect to the religion of the majority
> in
> > > > > Bangladesh. You may hate Awami League or Sheikh Mujib for some
> > (may
> > > > be)
> > > > > valid reasons. You have every right to express your viewpoint
> but
> > it
> > > > is
> > > > > really a shame to bring-in religion in this way.
> > > > >
> > > > > Shafiq Ahmad
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Emanur Rahman" emanur@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree although the Buriganga with its effluence and waste
> may
> > be
> > > > the
> > > > > most appropriate choice.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also propose that "Bismillah..." be removed from the
> > > constitution
> > > > > and replaced with "bismilbangabandu.....".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To seal the deal, all references to the Prophet should be
> > removed
> > > > from
> > > > > a new and official BAL version of the Quran as neither he nor
> the
> > > > > Almighty had any contribution to the glorious independence war,
> > you
> > > > know
> > > > > the Bangabandhu v Pakistan war where one man single handedly
> > > defeated
> > > > an
> > > > > entire army.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joy Bangla!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Emanur Rahman | m. +447734567561 | e. emanur@
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Sajjad Hossain shossain456@
> > > > > > Sender: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:29:17
> > > > > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Reply-To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Naming Dhaka as" Mujib Nagar"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In order to pay our indebtedness to Father of the Nation,
> > > > Bangabondhu
> > > > > Sheikh
> > > > > > Mujibur Rahman I propose to change the name of Dhaka to "Mujib
> > > > Nagar"
> > > > > > and "Bay of Bengal" to "Bay of Bangabondhu".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any comments from the Alochoks?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SH
> > > > > > Toronto
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
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> > > >
> > >
> >
>


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