Mr. Hannan, with his superficial knowledge, has mixed up everything. Engels was an entrepreneur of the capitalistic variety, he was a friend and mentor of Marx. As for social values, I wrote earlier, no secular person covets every woman he sees, nor does he commit plunder of the people who gave him shelter. Plenty of research has been carried out on comparing social values of believers and atheists(vide,e.g., Times on line dated September 27, 2005), and the finding is the societies are worse off 'when they have God on their side'. One does not have to go far. Islam has its own example. Among the 'four rightly guided Caliphs', the first one was poisoned and others were bled to death. Being aware of the nature of lowly intrigues, the dying Omar bin Khattab requested the Majlis-i-Sura to spare his son from Caliphate.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 8:32 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
- I have a copy of Engels' The Origin of the Family (1891 edition). I don't see where he has said what Mr. Hannan is saying! Did Engels say all this in later editions, or it is simply Mr. Hannan's intellectual dishonesty? It is a great book. The one I have has been published from Chicago. Engels' analysis is based on Morgan's (an American anthropologist!) Ancient Society a copy of which also I have. Morgan, Marx, and Engels were contemporary. Historical analysis of evolution of societies by Marx and Engels have been influenced by Morgan's research. So, I hope I have the right to doubt what our ex-Secretary of the Govt. of Bangladesh is saying.
- In the light of Morgan's research findings Engels has simply analyzed the family structure in different societies (one of them being an American Indian tribe.) Religions, vested interest groups, rulers, etc. discriminated women against men. Both Morgan and he have seen a trend in a family structure in which husband and wife are bonded together by "love" (a word used by Engels). Power, earnings, etc. are absent in that state of bondage. Once this stage is attained, as Morgan and Engels said, we cannot predict what further developments the family structure will have. That's it. So it is really hard to believe Hannan's "made up" story.
- I asked an anti-communist lady (about 60 years old and a recent immigrant to America) from an East European country whether the communist govt. made the children common property of the state. She laughed and gave me a short answer, "No. I grew freely. My dad was a minister of a church." I don't think USSR even did that. Stalin's daughter was in America. Looks like we have heard another made up story from Hannan. Hannan's lies/quarter truths reminds me of a "tabij" vendor. It was in a small mufassil town during Ayub regime. He could make humor (that's what you need to attract public in a busy bazaar to sell fake stuff.) I as a kid enjoyed them forgetting that my mother had sent me to bazaar to buy an important item. That vendor was probably a member of Jamaat-e-Islam. He talked against family planning that Ayub Khan wanted to make popular. He used to say in the style of "waaj", "Population of India is growing rapidly. To beat India, produce more children. Don't adopt family planning." Some of us may have listened to similar taped "waaj" by Saayidi (a top Jamaat leader): example, "when there is a rain in Moscow, our communist brothers take shelter under the umbrellas."
- There were periods when women had to stay home, cook, raise kids, and do all the household chores only. Economic necessity forced women to take employment outside. But irony is that they still had to do the household jobs including cooking and raising children. Even working almost round-the-clock it was impossible to take care of every thing. The poor families were the greatest victims of the new economic situation. Common schooling, common lodging, common baby sitting, common eating place, common house cleaning, etc. run by the govt. to help these needy families can be a good idea. This does not mean taking away of children by the govt. Only thing that needs to be remembered is that the state does not mold the kids with a certain ideology. The kids need to grow independently with the opportunity to achieve the highest potential.
- Mr. Hannan has talked about Arab spring with the promise of Islamist revivalism in the respective countries. It was a historical inevitability. Excesses done by the dictators have opened the door to this revivalism. We have to welcome it as they are coming to power with people's mandate. Like intellectuals like Farhad Mazhar I will not say that people love to play in dirty places like swine. But I will say that it is a setback in the course of progress of history. It happens. India had BJP in power because of bad governance by the so called secular forces. One day Jamaat may get state power if the secular and democratic forces fail to live up to the aspirations of people. Anyway, Hannan is happy with the Arab spring and happy at seeing women taking part in the movement. Will those veiled women be really liberated under the new regimes? Will Hannan not hesitate to give too much liberty to them? Would he still advocate for shariah Law that discriminates against women? Have we ever heard him criticizing Taliban version of freedom of women? Would he criticize late Osama-bin-Laden for having four (or more?) wives?
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:55 PM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] FW: Pope Says Liberal family values threaten humanity: Corrective Steps Are Needed
As far as I remember, Engels a major founder of communism, advocated communism of both property and family.There will not be seperate families but all members of a commune will be members of the commune, they can have relations with any and all and children will be common property.Soviet Union tried it in the beginning but later abandoned it as impractical. Others may enlighten us.You can read the book Tauhid ,Its Implications for Life and Society , chapter on family, by Dr Late Dr Ismail Razi Al Faruqi.Secularism has taken people away from religion and thereby has taken them to so-called liberal family concept as mentioned by Pope even before.Muslim women are strongly returning to Islam as seen in Arab Spring.Shah Abdul Hannan
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of subimal chakrabartySubject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Pope Says Liberal family values threaten humanity: Corrective Steps Are NeededI don't understand why Mr. Hannan is blaming atheism and Marxism for homosexual marriage and adoptions by couples! Are all the atheists and Marxists supporting and sponsoring these? Did (does) any communist country have any plan to make children common property of the state? Can Mr. hannan elaborate a little bit more on how secularism "has strengthened this destructive tendency?" I think without delving into the matter Mr. Hannan is for nothing putting all the blames on secularism for new family values. Any way, Mr. Hannan has forgot to mention that religions discriminate against women. Women are being liberated gradually because of the modern thoughts and enlightenment.From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: 'dahuk' <dahuk@yahoogroups.com>; khabor@yahoogroups.com ; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com ; mahdiunite@yahoogroups.com; 'sahannan' <sahannan@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2012 7:04 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] FW: Pope Says Liberal family values threaten humanity: Corrective Steps Are Needed
Pope Says Liberal family values threaten humanity: Corrective Steps Are Needed
Afp has reported from , Vatican City that Pope Benedict XVI yesterday warned that liberal family values were threatening the future of humanity, in a veiled reference to homosexual marriage and adoptions by gay couples."Policies which undermine the family threaten human dignity and the future of humanity itself," the pontiff said in a speech at the Vatican ."The family, based on the marriage of a man and a woman ... is not a simple social convention, but rather the fundamental cell of every society," added the 84-year-old pope.We believe Pope has voiced the concern of all religions, not only Christianity. The humanity is suffering from direct or indirect destruction of family. Atheism and Marxism have laid the foundations of destruction of family. Marxism wanted to create communes where men and women will live together without marriage and children will be state or commonm property.Secularism which is a product of atheism and enlightenment value of naturalism ( that everything has happened naturally, there is no need of a Creator) has strengthened this desrtructive tendency. In these ideologies man is just like another animal. As other animals do not have family, so there is no need for family. They can have all types of relations.We know the result in the West and also East .This has to be reversed. The family has to be strengthened .Moral values have to be strengthened.Only religions can save humanity from all these evils.
__._,_.___
****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration:
Call For Articles:
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68
http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585
****************************************************
VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/
****************************************************
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
__,_._,___