From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 27, 2012 6:48 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
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Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
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Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
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From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
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Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
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Subject: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
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Friday, April 27, 2012
Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
Well said member Roy. Agree with your sentiment.
-----Original Message-----
I understand the confusion from my recent post. That's why – I gave two examples to show that actual God fearing people are not generally communal; it's the borderline religious people, who do not hesitate to exploit religion to achieve their goals. Following that observation, I have concluded that religion can survive without communalism, but religious-communalism cannot survive without religion. As a result, religion is at the core of religious-communalism. There are other sorts of communalism also, like racial-communalism, tribal-communalism, etc.
Let me give another example of religious-communalism. When Khaleda Zia says – if you vote for Awami League, you will hear "Uludhoni' from the Mosque - that's a communal exploitation of religion. But, we cannot blame religion for her misuse of religion. This is what I meant by religious-communalism. In previous posting - I also said that if there was no religion, there would have been no religious-communalism. It is like – we have headache, because we have head.
I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy's comments below.
Here, he wrote, "Religion is not the cause of communality." However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread "Religion & Communalism, he wrote, "Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism."
In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman's regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman's posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to "faith based bashing." Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren't she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real "faith based bashing."
I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of "faith based bashing."
Sukhamaya Bain
=================================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It's the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It's the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so.
Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
Jiten Roy
While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result. Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
====================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren't? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
Jiten Roy
--- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
==============================
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point. Sent from my iPhone
=============================
On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty's assessment below is seriously flawed.
In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
1) The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan's cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
2) The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
3) The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
FYI: Jogen Mandal's Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
Sukhamaya Bain
=======================================================
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Although only about a 2-mimute-long video, it is pretty informative and enlightening. I was a school student in a Pakistani (eastern wing) school in sixties and so was Tarek Fatah. In the Bengali anthologies that we had to read, there was nothing anti-hindu or anti-Christian. We had great pieces from all great Hindu writers including Bankim. [When the nationalist movement was crystallizing in the eastern wing, Monem Khan became worried and requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindra-sangeet although the selections in the anthologies remain unchanged.] Looks like it was a similar case in West Pakistan also. From the short but incomplete speech, one can find that every thing started with Ziaul Huque and Talibanization of Afghanistan. I will say that this has been one of the evil and harmful spill over effects of the foreign policy of America in Afghanistan. One may argue that cold war is the root cause. Thus communalism was bolstered in Pakistan indirectly because of the American foreign policy.
At this time it may be politically incorrect to say that Ayub Khan and his cabinet members were not fanatic Muslims like Ziaul Huque. As a matter fact in spirits they were pretty modern in their life style. Ayub Khan was found swimming with Christian Killer in a swimming pool! Mowdudi was given death sentence during his tenure for instigating riots against the Ahmediyas. For the first several years after birth, Pakistan was going through chaotic situation. Ayub Khan emerged as the "savior" of the politically unstable Pakistan, and with the dictatorial rule brought stability in the polititical arena of Pakistan for a while. He understood the then global politics in his own way and chose to be blessed by the Washington-Peking axis and as such resorted to anti-India policy to gather strength and thereby consolidate his position both internally and externally (SEATO-CENTO). He was too much a Panjabi and neglected East Pakistan (although it was a great source of the national earnings) and the other regions. He resorted to the policy of family planning and was greatly opposed by Jamaat and some other so called Islam-pasand political parties.
================================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Listen to another piece of video about Hindus bashing in the school curriculum of Pakistan:
--- On Fri, 4/20/12, Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@gmail.com> wrote:
----- Forwarded Message -----
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSarfarosh Naye Packet Mei Cheez Purani - Pakistani school books teach hatred against all the religious minorities ... Hindus & Ahmadis in particular. As a result of this filth, minorities have to suffer a lot in Pakistan. Minority Group Rights International (an international organization whose sole job is to raise awareness of minor
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