>>>>>>>>>> Again, if you make your decisions EXCLUSIVELY based on religion, you are correct. I on the other hand think religion is important but we have other dimensions/aspects of our lives. Like language, culture, history etc.
Just for the record, the TRIPURA example was used to make a point about LACK of leadership of the then Pakistan but you are dragging religion into it, which was NOT the point of the Initial post. Not only Tripura we have ties with people of west Bengal as well. We are tied with history,language, culture etc. These are our common grounds. Historically people of Tripura used Comilla as their gateway to India. Last year I met a gentleman from Tripura who shown a lot of affection towards Bangladesh, albeit he is from Hindu tradition. So it is MY (Personal opinion) observation that, despite differences in faith background we are comfortable with people of Tripiura and west Bengal. I have visited west bengal couple of times and have good memories of it.
I have given 3-4 good reasons behind our good ties with people of west bengal and Tripura. I did not talk about West Bengal initially (You did) but it applies to people of that state as well. It is my "Personal opinion" that despite our faith differences, we can get along fine with those people. My real life interactions solidified these beliefs.
There are good people and bad people in every community. I am well aware there are SOME Hindu people who would have hard time accepting me just because of my faith (I learnt that from my own life) and that is fine. But majority of population are peace loving like majority Muslim population. I get along fine with most of them. I decided not to let ignorant people dictate my life choices as much as possible. While I am keenly aware of our "Less than perfect" history, I am also aware good relations, friendship and mutual sacrifices do not make head line news but they exist.
I feel our Maker made us as peace loving people but circumstances leads some of us to acts up. So I seek common grounds and try to get along as much as possible. If someone do not want to get along, it is their own damn problem, not mine.
Shalom!
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, May 1, 2012 5:10 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
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Wednesday, May 2, 2012
Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
Could you elaborate on this? What is the basis of their 'historical ties' with the Muslim-majority East Bengal, over the Hindu-majority West Bengal? What have the Muslims of East Bengal done for the Hindu-majority people of Tripura for them to be more 'comfortable around us'?
Now, let me give two pieces of advice to people like QAR. 1) My conclusions are based upon facts and logic, not upon imagination and nonsense. Trying to belittle them by calling them 'your opinions' is not wise. If you can, come up with additional facts and sounder logic to refute/modify the conclusions that I draw. 2) Academic discussions are necessary for human development, and for a better future; even while we realize that we can not go back in history to change things. Please do not shrug aside academic discussions.
>>>>>>>>>> Your posts reflects your opinions and in free communities people can respectfully disagree with your findings. That does NOT mean I have "Belittle" them. I was being courteous but you misunderstood me!!
-----Original Message-----
Responding to QAR's comment, "People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us."
Could you elaborate on this? What is the basis of their 'historical ties' with the Muslim-majority East Bengal, over the Hindu-majority West Bengal? What have the Muslims of East Bengal done for the Hindu-majority people of Tripura for them to be more 'comfortable around us'?
In reality, the no-caste Hindus, i.e., the Namashudras, had more ties with the grass-root Muslims than any other inter-religion ties. These two communities had pretty much the same occupation, mostly agricultural labor. They both were close to the soil of Bengal. The so-called high-caste Hindus, including the zemindars, treated these two communities about the same, low class.
The Muslims had no logical reason to hate the Namashudras. The Namashudras did not hate the Muslims either, nor did they consider themselves superior to the Muslims. They thought their Muslim brothers would be better than the so-called high caste Hindus. That is why, in 1947, under the leadership of Jogen Mondal, they joined Pakistan over India. And see what they got from the Muslim brothers during Pakistan and during Bangladesh!
Now, let me give two pieces of advice to people like QAR. 1) My conclusions are based upon facts and logic, not upon imagination and nonsense. Trying to belittle them by calling them 'your opinions' is not wise. If you can, come up with additional facts and sounder logic to refute/modify the conclusions that I draw. 2) Academic discussions are necessary for human development, and for a better future; even while we realize that we can not go back in history to change things. Please do not shrug aside academic discussions.
Sukhamaya Bain
===========================================
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman's regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent?
>>>>>>> With due respect, I think you are mixing up too many issue. The "Tripura" example was given to show LACK of leadership of the than Pakistani leaders. Pakistan was a country like most other countries. It did not work very well for the citizens because of bad leaders and greedy opportunists who cared more then their own interest than country or even their religion. It is wrong to think only Hindus suffered, I feel ALL people suffered. Hindus suffered more because of twisted ideology of blaming Hindus for everything bad. Today I strongly blame India for not giving us "Fair share" of water for ALL of our people. Religion has NOTHING to do with it. But you will find most of my people looking at such vital issue through religious prism!!
Aren't she and her people lucky?
I understand it is 'Your opinion" and we'll never know how it would have turned out. If we had few visionary leaders, we could have been in much better shape. I do not know where you live (BD or other country) but last 10 years Bangladesh made a lot of progress. I strongly feel it will continue. If our political leaders were little more tolerant of each others, we could have benefited more but I try to live with what I have not what I wished for.
People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us. Now it is history and ONLY subject of academic discussion. Nothing more ...
As far as communal problem is concern, it can be lessen by strengthening monitoring institutions (Judicial system, police, education etc) and visionary leaders. Those who are from non-Muslim background are aware of minority persecution but I see oppression of powerful people over powerless continues and it is blind to religion most of the time. The minority persecution is just an ugly extension of that. I bet you those who abuse Hindus (Abusing religion) are mostly ignorant about what Islam says (Or cherry picking verses to fulfill their own darn wishes). Lastly, I'll share a true story. I was taking an interview for a post. One gentleman came with a CV claiming he had a masters degree in Islamic history. I asked him to tell me the meaning of the word "Jihad" and he gave me the wrong answer!! Later he confessed, like secular education system they are given few questions to remember and he just memorized them without understanding most of it. That is why I say, authentic Islamic education can help to lessen hatred among faith communities. The positive part of this story is I also encountered many young men who impressed me with their knowledge. So I am hopeful for a better Bangladesh.
Shalom!
====================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Apr 27, 2012 1:17 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy's comments below.
Here, he wrote, "Religion is not the cause of communality." However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread "Religion & Communalism, he wrote, "Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism."
In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman's regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman's posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to "faith based bashing." Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren't she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real "faith based bashing."
I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of "faith based bashing."
Sukhamaya Bain
=================================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It's the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It's the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so.
Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
Jiten Roy
=============================== --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result. Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
====================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren't? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
Jiten Roy
Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
==============================
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point. Sent from my iPhone
=============================
On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty's assessment below is seriously flawed.
In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
1) The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan's cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
2) The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
3) The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
FYI: Jogen Mandal's Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
Sukhamaya Bain
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