RE: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh better than India and Pakistan !!

   Why are intelligent people resorting to propaganda based on falsehood?  Secularism does not mean anti-religion or religion-less. Only evil people are spreading the lie.
   India's Constitution has a flaw, as Mr. T. N. Haskar pointed out to the Constituent Assembly members of newly formed Bangladesh.  The Constitution of Bangladesh in 1972 made sure that it would not replicate the flaw left in India' Constitution.
        
ঘ) শাসনতন্ত্রে সমাজতন্ত্র ও ধর্মনিরপেক্ষতাবাদের মত বিদেশী আদর্শ এনে বাংলাদেশের আপামর মুসলিম জনসাধারণের ধর্মীয় অনুভূতিতে চরম আঘাত হানেন, (

        Every element of the above statement is erroneous and baseless. There was secularism practiced in India for centuries, both administratively and culturally among its inhabitants long before Europe had any idea of it. To proclaim it as a "foreign ideology" is to promote a falsehood for a particular anti-people political purpose. The idea of provoking communal sentimentality by pointing out some king of vague "hurting of religious sentiment" is a British colonial trick first established in 1860 in the Indian Penal Code.

              Bangladesh is better than India and Pakistan, not by a freak accident, but because of a mighty struggle by its people against a faulty, mischievous theory of counting India's population on the basis of people's religion.

             Bangladesh is better than India and Pakistan because  it not only embraced secularism to ensure religious freedom to its citizens but (as an improvement over the Indian Constitution) prevented the formation of political parties based on religion in order to further strengthen individual citizen's religious freedom.

                Please let us be proud of our achievements and move on forward.  The battle over this point has been WON.  Dividing a country on the basis of people's religious identity is a theory that is DEFEATED.  We cannot be engaging in arguments over the same point with the losers, the proven liars.

               [The Rohingya skirmish inside Myanmar is skillfully manipulated by the Islamists, and now Jamaat is very successfully embarrassing Bangladesh in the eyes of the international community.  But our FM, Dipu Moni is correct to point out that these people are NOT 'refugees' by the UN definition  since they are not persecuted by the State of
Myanmar.]
                              
                                          Farida Majid

 

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To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: qrahman@netscape.net
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 15:28:20 -0400
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh better than India and Pakistan !!

 

If these people belong to a different religion, our Bangladeshi border guards would have shot them on the first sight.

>>>>>>>> IF that ever happened, it would still be WRONG!!

I am not sure why so called "Secular" people are so willing to look everything via religious point of view? Had Rohingas were Christians, we still had a MORAL obligation NOT to send them to death camps.


both Bangladeshis and Pakistanis were having orgasms because they were not Muslims.

>>>>>>>> Maybe you are hanging out with perverts. Need to look for new people in your lives. Don't think the idea of innocent people being murdered can cause "Orgasm" in any "Ordinary" people.


Pakistanis were rather aiding Srilankans with arms to wipe out the Tamil population.

>>>>>>> Pakistanis are hell bent to go against Indians. Since Indian clandestine groups were actively supporting Tamil rebels, Pakistan chose to work with the government. Giving such "Half baked" pictures may mislead people. Unless misleading is your intention, kindly be fair to both India and Pakistan. For Bangladeshis (Assuming you are form BD) both Pakistan and India are FOREIGN countries.

So, why this double standard from our part?

>>>>>>>>>>>>> These double standards are NOT supported by religion (Source: Al Qur'an 5:8). However the west was openly biased against north Sudan (Muslim north). Again you are giving "Half" the information here.

Why religious zealots can still burn minority houses in Shatkira and Nandigram on false blasphemy issues?

>>>>>>> Ask our home ministry about it. BTW, both Muslim and Hindu houses were targeted. It was wrong to succumb to "Mob justice" but the wrath was not exclusively against one community. Muslims did protest quiet forcefully (We also discussed it here) against such abuse of religion.


How would we like to be treated fairly when we do not treat other people fairly?

>>>>>>>>  My friend, you can take the first step and start treating religious people fairly. So far most of your posts are VERY offensive against Islam and Muslims.


The people, who  are crying for justice for Rohingas have no problem seeing our brothers and sisters of Chittagong Hill tracts being constantly harassed?

>>>>>>>>>>> NOT true. The latest "Attack" on ethnic minorities came from our "Secular" government when they denied the "Indigenous" status of tribal people of hill tracts. No religious bodies said anything like that.

How can we move forward when we harbor such demon in our hearts?

>>>>>> Good point. It is easiest to remove own demon first before you go after other hearts.

These people need to get along with their Burmese counterparts and integrate into that society rather than extend the Jamati hegemony on to the Burmese people. I am sure Burma is not a totally homogeneous country and other minorities should be able to do fine if they chose to do so.

>>>>>>>>>> I have a feeling you do NOT know the history of the region that well. Please click here to read an article about history of "Arakan". Then you would not blame the victims here. FYI, the military regime of Myanmar also have conflict with other ethnic minorities who are not Muslims. Some of them took shelter in Thailand, Malaysia etc. Some say, it was fomented to make the environment more difficult for Ms. Kyi and to halt Myanmar's transition to democracy.

Shalom!






-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: qrahman <qrahman@netscape.net>; jnrsr53 <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>; Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>; bachchuhaq <bachchuhaq@yahoo.com>; bangladesh-progressives <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>; bishawdipta <bishawdipta@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 7:13 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh better than India and Pakistan !!

 

We know who are the true razakars of our time but with the political patronage, they have become far holier than our real fighters of 71. They were rehabilitated shamelessly because they went for BNP/Jamat camp for safety and refuge. As long as these people run the show, Bangladesh would not be able to go over the hump. If religious sentiment is to rule our life, it will be like one step forward leading to two steps backward. Whether Indians are secular or not, their constitution is secular and that would be a deciding factor for them and their future. So far, it has served them very well despite some hiccups. Even US is not a secular country but its constitution is secular and that is the model we should follow. If people want to put Quaran on the top of our constitution, we are doomed stay behind miles away from the other developing countries. God  never actively supported any country that were religious and went by the book.

My two cents for Rohinga refugees: The problem is a political and religious nature. If these people belong to a different religion, our Bangladeshi border guards would have shot them on the first sight. Few years back, when Srilankan army was carrying out genocide on the Tamils, both Bangladeshis and Pakistanis were having orgasms because they were not Muslims. Pakistanis were rather aiding Srilankans with arms to wipe out the Tamil population. When North Sudanese were tormenting Southerners, no single condemnation came from any Arab country, let alone from OIC.  So, why this double standard from our part? Why religious zealots can still burn minority houses in Shatkira and Nandigram on false blasphemy issues? How would we like to be treated fairly when we do not treat other people fairly? The people, who  are crying for justice for Rohingas have no problem seeing our brothers and sisters of Chittagong Hill tracts being constantly harassed? How can we move forward when we harbor such demon in our hearts?

I would not justify a stepmother like attitude towards the Rohingas. These people need to get along with their Burmese counterparts and integrate into that society rather than extend the Jamati hegemony on to the Burmese people. I am sure Burma is not a totally homogeneous country and other minorities should be able to do fine if they chose to do so. It is high time for Rohingas to get that message. Nobody would go for any safe heaven domain within Burma. That would open the Pandora's box! In such case, other minorities would demand exactly the same in some other Muslim countries as well. I do not think Muslim countries got that kind of stomach to deal with their own little secrets.

With respect and regards,

-SD

 

"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

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From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh better than India and Pakistan !!

 

I do not think it would have been the case. Even if "Peace" could have been guaranteed by simply banning religious leaning organizations (Note I am talking about all organizations not just political parties), we would have done so.

India is a "secular" democracy but it's people (Of all faiths) are not secular. Neither they want to be "Secular". People of Bangladesh are no different than people of India.

We never had a sincere effort to list rajakars. As you said some Muktijoddas never received recognitions but corrupt people received certificate as freedom fighters. Then you have so called 16th division fighters (Those who joined the movement at the very end of our struggle). So there are many hypocrites among all groups of people. I was hoping at least the leaders among rajakars and those who helped raping our sisters should have been punished. Let us see how this goes...

I do not blame BAL exclusively but common people are probably not demanding it strongly.

Right now, I am really disturbed about how our neighbors Rohingas are being persecuted in their own land. As if I was watching pictures from 1971. My God!!

The armed personnel lining up people and burning houses--- the whole deal. Sadly, we decided to push them to death and persecution as per government policy. At least we could become their "Advocate" to the rest of the world. We can organize regional meetings on this issue. It is not only a religious cause, it is a moral cause!!

This will define who we are as people. Are we only satisfied with pointing fingers at Indians, Pakistanis, Saudis, Americans, Israelis, Iraqis etc or we are going to do our best to support innocent civilians from being persecuted. Why we cannot force UN to get a "safe zone" inside Myanman?

I would request all advocates of human rights in this forum to do his/her level best to highlight these criminals in world stage. Make people aware of this persecution. Call the ambassador of Myanmar in the USA, UK and other countries and ask them to stop the persecution. If there is a problem, it can be solved via Bangladesh or UN. Why helpless innocent civilians have to pay the price over and over. This is not the first time these people were targeted. They have been targeted for ethnic cleansing many times.

This is the right time to stand up for them. If we do not our little bit, no one will come to our aid IF we ever need a helping hand in future.......

Shalom! 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 14, 2012 5:53 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh better than India and Pakistan !!

 

Bangladesh could have prospered unabated and become a peaceful country, like Nepal or Bali, if these simple steps were implemented right after the independence – 1) band politics with religion, 2) build a wall of shame for Razakars, and 3) deliver unprecedented punishment for corruption.   Now, Razakars have become 'Deshbondhu' and Muktijodhas have become 'Collaborators.' The blame goes to Awami League leadership. I have seen myself - they were confused about their secular identity, and could not support secularism whole-heartedly. Rest is history. Jiten Roy --- On Wed, 6/13/12, Muhammad Ali <man1k195709@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Muhammad Ali <man1k195709@yahoo.com> Subject: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh better than India and Pakistan !! To: Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2012, 4:51 PM   Bangladesh better than India and Pakistan !! মূল পাতা প্রথম পাতা  « পূর্ববর্তী সংবাদ ¦ শেয়ার পরবর্তী সংবাদ » ভারত-পাকিস্তানের চেয়ে শান্তিপূর্ণ বাংলাদেশ কালের কণ্ঠ ডেস্ক ভারত ও পাকিস্তানের চেয়ে বেশি শান্তিপূর্ণ দেশের মর্যাদা পেয়েছে বাংলাদেশ। সামগ্রিক অবস্থান গতবারের থেকে কয়েক ধাপ পেছালেও দক্ষিণ এশিয়ার মধ্যে বাংলাদেশের অবস্থান তৃতীয়। দক্ষিণ এশিয়ার দেশগুলোর মধ্যে প্রথম ও দ্বিতীয় অবস্থানে রয়েছে যথাক্রমে ভুটান ও নেপাল। গত মঙ্গলবার অস্ট্রেলিয়া ও যুক্তরাষ্ট্রভিত্তিক প্রতিষ্ঠান ইনস্টিটিউট ফর ইকোনমিক অ্যান্ড পিস (আইইপি) প্রকাশিত 'গ্লোবাল পিস ইনডেক্স (জিপিআই)-২০১২' শীর্ষক বার্ষিক গবেষণা প্রতিবেদনে এ কথা বলা হয়েছে। বিশ্বের ১৫৮টি দেশের অভ্যন্তরীণ ও আন্তর্জাতিক সংঘাত, সামাজিক নিরাপত্তা, সন্ত্রাসী তৎপরতা, রাজনৈতিক, অর্থনৈতিক এবং সাংস্কৃতিক কর্মকাণ্ডসহ ২৩টি বিষয়ের ভিত্তিতে এ গবেষণা কার্যক্রম পরিচালনা করা হয়। গবেষণা প্রতিবেদনে বলা হয়েছে, ক্ষুধা, সন্ত্রাস, কূটনৈতিক উত্তেজনা, সীমানা বিরোধ, যুদ্ধ, সহিংসতা সর্বোপরি অর্থনৈতিক মন্দা সত্ত্বেও পৃথিবী আগের চেয়ে শান্তিপূর্ণ হয়েছে। আর এবারের বার্ষিক সূচক বিশ্লেষণ করে দেখা যায়, ২০০৯ সালের তুলনায় বিশ্ব এখন অনেক বেশি শান্তিপূর্ণ। ২০১১ সাল থেকে এ বছরের চলতি সময় পর্যন্ত দক্ষিণ এশিয়ার শান্তিপূর্ণ দেশ হিসেবে ভারত ও পাকিস্তানকে পেছনে ফেলেছে বাংলাদেশ, নেপাল ও ভুটান। শান্তি সূচকে বাংলাদেশের অবস্থান ৯১তম আর ভারত ও পকিস্তানের অবস্থান যথাক্রমে ১৪২ ও ১৪৯তম। অন্যদিকে ভুটান ও নেপালের অবস্থান যথাক্রমে ১৯ ও ৮০তম। তবে গত বছরের তুলনায় বাংলাদেশের অবস্থানের কয়েক ধাপ অবনতি হয়েছে। গত ২০১০-১১ সালে এই সূচকে বাংলাদেশের অবস্থান ছিল ৮৩তম। এদিকে দক্ষিণ এশিয়ার সবচেয়ে অশান্তিপূর্ণ দেশ হিসেবে তালিকার একেবারে তলানিতে ঠেকেছে আফগানিস্তানের নাম। তাদের অবস্থান ১৫৭তম। গতবারের মতো এবারও বিশ্বের সবচেয়ে শান্তিপূর্ণ দেশের শীর্ষ অবস্থানটি ধরে রেখেছে আইসল্যান্ড। এর পরেই আছে যথাক্রমে ডেনমার্ক ও নিউজিল্যান্ড। এবারের তালিকায় সবচেয়ে উন্নতি করা দেশগুলোর মধ্যে আছে শ্রীলঙ্কা, জিম্বাবুয়ে, ভুটান, গায়ানা এবং ফিলিপাইন। বিশ্বের সবচেয়ে অশান্তির দেশ হিসেবে তালিকার সর্বশেষ অর্থাৎ ১৫৮তম অবস্থানটি দখল করেছে আফ্রিকার দেশ সোমালিয়া। এ ছাড়া তালিকার সবচেয়ে নিচের অন্য পাঁচটি দেশ যথাক্রমে আফগানিস্তান, সুদান, ইরাক, কঙ্গো ও রাশিয়া। অন্যদিকে অশান্তিপূর্ণ দেশ হিসেবে যাদের দুর্নাম হয়েছে তাদের শীর্ষে আছে সিরিয়া, মিসর, তিউনিসিয়া, ওমান ও মালাবি। ১৫৮টি দেশের মধ্যে গতবারের চেয়ে এবার সূচকে সবচেয়ে বেশি পতন হয়েছে সিরিয়ার। সাম্প্রতিক সহিংসতার কারণে ৩০ ধাপ পিছিয়ে তালিকায় দেশটির অবস্থান ১৪৭তম। এবারের তালিকায় যুক্তরাষ্ট্র ও যুক্তরাজ্যের অবস্থানও কিছুটা পিছিয়েছে। গতবারের চেয়ে ছয় ধাপ পিছিয়ে যুক্তরাষ্ট্রের অবস্থান ৮৮তম। আর অর্থনৈতিক সংকটে থাকা যুক্তরাজ্যের অবস্থান তিন ধাপ পিছিয়ে হয়েছে ২৯তম। ইনস্টিটিউট ফর ইকোনমিক অ্যান্ড পিসের (আইইপি) কর্মকর্তা স্টিভ কাইলি বলেন, এশিয়া-প্রশান্ত মহাসাগরীয় অঞ্চলে গত বছরের তুলনায় শান্তি বেড়েছে। আইইপির মতে, মধ্যপ্রাচ্যের দেশগুলোর মধ্যেই এখন সবচেয়ে বেশি অশান্তির আগুন জ্বলছে। সাম্প্রতিক সময়ের সহিংসতা ও অস্থিরতার কারণে দেশগুলো সন্তোষজনকভাবে শান্তিপূর্ণ থাকতে পারেনি। সূত্র : গার্ডিয়ান ও টাইমস অব ইন্ডিয়া অনলাইন।

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