The conversion apparently did not go down too well with their neighbours,.........who, on June 8, beat up the two sisters and their family, including her mother and brother, with bricks and rods...............................they said unmentionable things as I have converted," said Vinita. She also alleged that both sisters were abused and molested.
We hear a lot about killing apostate in the western media but I am yet to hear anyone in Bangladesh were killed over it. In fact there are quite a few public figures who also had interfaith marriages but they get along fine with mainstream population. If someone does not follow Islam, it really does not matter if Islam approves it or not.
I see a comical effort to divert the topic into something else or comparing to Bangladesh etc. Kindly read the article then comment on it. If highly educated people like members here cannot even understand a simple article, why do you expect millions of half educated Muslims will get it right every time. Which is unrealistic expectation to begin with!!
If you want the world to change for better, you have to start with yourself. If you care for fairness from others, you ought to start from from your neighborhood and hopefully people will follow your lead. Expectation from others devoid of actions never delivers.
Shalom!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 31, 2012 9:07 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, August 31, 2012, 9:36 AM
>>>>>>>>>> So freedom of religion is not important? As per Indian constitution, ALL Indians are free to pick religion of their choice and practice it freely. How the heck it becomes a family issue when NEIGHBORS of the covert decided to beat this lady?
This is amusing stuff....
Shalom!!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 31, 2012 6:08 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
This case is simple, just like any other issue where elders rebuke or punish youngsters for wrongdoings. Not a constitutional or secular issue. However, honor-killing issue could be under the jurisdiction of the constitution. That was my point.
Jiten Roy
--- On Thu, 8/30/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 30, 2012, 10:56 AM
>>>>>>>>> it seems member Roy missed the point made in my last post. I am not interested to insult anyone in this forum or "Indian constitution".
For many months in this forum I was "Told" by many members religion/Islam is the cause for many social ills. I have consistently said, religion does not approve mistreating women in any share or form. I do not think the founding fathers of India even "Approved" of making lives of Indian women miserable either. However good laws needs strong institutions of apply those laws on people who violate those laws.
Here (IN Muktomona) people tend to focus on people who violate religious laws and attempt to make a case against religion. However the SAME sets of members will bring who different argument when I make the same case against a secular country like India. Then it becomes a "Family problem" not religion or secularism.
Which shows most of our "Mukto-monas" are NOT able to get away from their per-conceived notions about issues we discuss.
There are thousands of incidents like this in Bangladesh
>>>>>>>>> I am sure there is. When we discuss those issues, many members will not shy away from blaming "Islam" or "Jihadi" Muslims for it.
The irony is we get furious when we see double standards. Most of us don't realize that, when we make comments based on emotion (Instead of facts on ground!) we do the same!!
Just to "Counter" my comment on "India", we see comments on "Honor killing" (Which has NO relations to Islam, rather a part of many cultures across the globe), Bangladesh and to top it off' " I see nothing unusual here" and "their anger is quite justifiable in this case".
It does not matter if the injustice taking place in India, Bangladesh, Myanmar or Palestine. Those of us who have some level of education should have the backbone to call it what it is. If it is a wrong thing, we need to unitedly say, it is WRONG!!
If some of us silently or vocally support wrongdoing to other people, it is hard to stand up against oppression. That is why it is so hard for us to remove oppression in our own country. We should not tolerate intolerance.
Lastly, according to the report, it was the neighbors who did not approve of the conversion.
My two cents.....
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:45 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
--- On Tue, 8/28/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 28, 2012, 9:04 PM
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
-SD
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 3:22 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
Shalom!
India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
Sisters beaten up for converting to Islam
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Friday, August 31, 2012
Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
>>>>>>>>>> I think you still missed the point. I have copied from the article to make it easy for all readers. We were not talking about family only. We are talking "neighbours"
Also do note, it seems you are trying to put blame back on Islam without even reading the article you are commenting on. HERE the neighbors were upset with someone reverting to Islam and beat the crap out of the WHOLE FAMILY...
You said they have beaten this Lady. How old is this Lady? I missed it. My comment was about underage girls, not Ladies. If she is a grownup Lady, my comment is not applicable to her, as she may have made a conscious decision. If her relatives have punished her for doing so, they are wrong, and they should be held liable for the punishment.
I understood your point clearly. You tried to equate this punishment with the punishment of an apostate, sanctioned by Islam. Are you sure this punishment rises to the same level as reserved for an apostate, and should deserve the similar criticism?
Jiten Roy
where elders rebuke or punish youngsters for wrongdoings. Not a constitutional or secular issue.
-----Original Message-----
Mr. Q. Rahman is blaming the secular constitution of India for not protecting the girl, who was punished ('beaten') by her relatives for converting to Islam.
-----Original Message-----
Mr. Q. Rahman is blaming the secular constitution of India for not protecting the girl, who was punished ('beaten') by her relatives for converting to Islam. Mr. Chakraborty, on the other hand, first supported the Indian secular constitution, and then undermined it. None of these comments make any sense to me. I am not sure why they are trying to connect secularism and constitution with this story, except to undermine them. As I see - this is a family issue, and the family, obviously, could not approve girl's action, and they were angry, which resulted into such a punishment. I see nothing unusual here. Do you?
Let me remind Mr. Rahman and others that - this is not the so called 'honor-killing' issue of the Hindu society. If it were, I could join hands with Mr. Rahman and others.
There are thousands of incidents like this in Bangladesh. I am sure, Mr. Chakraborty and Mr. Rahman are aware of many of them. Often I hear stories like – adolescent schoolgirls abducted and converted to Islam. Most cases - these girls are lost forever from their families and friends. So, their anger is quite justifiable in this case. There is no happy ending in any of these families.
I could care less if someone made a conscious decision about his/her religion. Unfortunately, that's not the case; most of these girls are very young, and unable to make conscious judgment at that age. Many of them admitted, in the later part of their lives, that it was a wrong decision in the first place. But, what good that could bring in their lives - nothing? The only way this process can be fair - if it is open-ended, and uniformly supported by all religious communities. Can this happen with the honor-killing system in the society? I doubt.
Jiten Roy
People are not the state. Indian state has a secular constitution that does not endorse such killings, but a state with strict Shariah law will probably will commit such killings officially. Ambedkar, a great scholar and one of the chief architects of the Indian constitution, led a mass conversion of 50,000 dalits to Buddhism. It might not have been possible in any other country. It does not mean that leaders of the secular parties are all free from evils. The then secular leaders showed total passivity during (or maybe even indirectly supported) the demolition of the Babri mosque. Many a time (I still remember Meerat riot) state police have participated in communal riots to kill Muslims.
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Maybe, you should check out what Muslims do to their own brothers and sisters when they abandon their religion? They get killed or stoned! Get off your high horse, bro!
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Thanks God for Indian press. The real situation of "Secular India" where people are NOT free to pick a religion of their choice.
Vinita Shaw and her sister both say they were beaten by neighbors for converting from Hinduism to Islam, and here I was thinking that it was only Muslims who had issues with those of their (former) co-religionists who leave the faith!
What if they were Muslim?:
by Arshad Ali (Indian Express)
A south Kolkata girl, who has converted from Hinduism to Islam, and her sister who is also keen to convert, were beaten up allegedly by the associates of the local councillor. The girls have also alleged police inaction.
Vinita Shaw, 25, a resident of 57/2B Bondel Road, adopted Islam in December last year. Her new name, vide an affidavit by a first class magistrate is, Taiba Khatoon (The Indian Express possesses a copy of the affidavit). Her sister, 18-year-old Pooja Shaw, too, expressed her wish to follow suit last week.
The conversion apparently did not go down too well with their neighbours, who, on June 8, beat up the two sisters and their family, including her mother and brother, with bricks and rods.
"We are a very poor family. My father is paralytic and bed-ridden. These people started a fight on the pretext that we dirty the place too much. But when they started beating us, they said unmentionable things as I have converted," said Vinita. She also alleged that both sisters were abused and molested.
Vinita also claimed harassment at the hands of the police."I went to the police station with a written complaint against Asim Bera, Tapas Bera, Abhishek Malakar, Krishna Ray, Akash Ray, Manoj Singh, Bikas Singh and Birju Paswan but investigating officer D D Roy Chowdhury tore it up and wrote it himself. He even refused to give me a copy of the complaint and when I insisted, he asked the other officer there to give it to me, referring to me with unmentionable names," she said.
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