Please do a little more homework. A man in his early twenties need both money and assurance of a luscious heaven to do such work as Kasab and his companions did. Such practice had been followed by the Islamic warriors across history. Even in contemporary times a 'Jihadi' recruited from Pakistan to do such work is paid over fifteen hundred dollars a month and a lump some amount is paid to his family if he dies in the process. Such money he can't earn in a regular job. Indoctrination without money would not have produced such religious warriors. I hope you have understood the difference!
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 7:07 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
Kasab was indoctrinated. A mercenary is not indoctrinated. He works for money. We need to understand this basic difference.From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 3, 2012 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab
"I simply tried to make the point that Kasab has also an agenda" ? The very usual babble by Mr. Chakrabarty. A mercenary doesn't have a political agenda. If he had any, he would sign a mercy petition after having killed so many.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 5:43 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, September 3, 2012, 3:38 PM
Thanks to Mr. Chakrabarty for the clarification.In any case, I think Kashmir as a part of Pakistan or independent would not be in the interest of human rights in that land until religion takes a back seat in that area. I do not foresee that happening in Pakistan in the next thousand years; in Kashmir it could happen faster if the Indian secularism continues to operate there. Whatever good we see in India compared to its surroundings, India is nowhere near perfect. The so-called excesses by the security forces are not likely to vanish in the near future. However, it would be wrong to have religion-based divisions there. Just like the creation of Pakistan in 1947, the division of Kashmir along religious lines would create more permanent divisions between peoples than progress with respect to inter-religion harmony. (Of course, the Pakistani occupied part of Kashmir is essentially a part of Pakistan now; nothing better can come out of that part than what will happen in Pakistan.)Sukhamaya Bain==============================From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2012 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev SenHow can you even think that I have some sympathy for a terrorist like Kashab or for that matter any terrorist who indiscriminately kills innocent people? I simply tried to make the point that Kasab has also an agenda as Kodnani has. Kashmiri militants have carried out several terrorist activiies within India but outside Kashmir. If I have followed the Kasab news correctly, those who sent Kasab and his group to India for the terrorist operation indoctrinated them about the jihad within the Indian Kashmir. Like Palestine, Kashmir is also a hot sale to the international Islamic jihadists. Kashmiris want self rule. ISI and Pakistan army have also eye on Kashmir. They are no real friend of the Kashmiris. They are trying to fish in the troubled waters. You have to admit that despite a special staus given to Kashmir, India has not been handling the Kshmir issue wisely. Indian security forces have made the situation worse by doing "excesses" in Kashmir. Looks like it has now reached a point of no return. It has now become too costly for India. Many Indian leaders are even weighing an alternative of diving J&K into three independent countries---one with Muslim majority, one with Hindu majority, and the other one with buddhist majority.=================================From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2012 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev SenThank you, Mr. Chakrabarty, for thanking me. (Sorry, Subimalda, to sort of depersonalize the discussions, I prefer to address and refer to people formally in the public forums.) However, I would have been happier if you stopped there. Your second and third sentences made the support kind of partial. I think everything that I wrote in the posting below deserved your clear support.Having said the above, and looking at your previous posting on this thread, I have to advise you again to do some thinking before you write and send.You seem to have some sympathy for Kasab, because 'Kashmir was an important factor in his Jihadi program'. Can you explain that?The way I see it, if Pakistan were a secular nation with respect for all religious communities, and if India were a Hindu fanatic nation oppressing Muslims in Kashmir, Pakistan would have had a moral right to send secular cadres to India for liberating Kashmir. All evidences in our subcontinent tell me that if Kashmir were a part of Pakistan or independent, the non-Muslim population of that land would have met the same fate as those in the 1947 Pakistan. Do you see any morality in that?Sukhamaya Bain==============================From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen
Thanks Dr. Bain.I agree with you that Kodnani's goons acted more barbarically by raping and mutilating. They did not spare children and pregnant women.===============================From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2012 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev SenAfter my first posting on this thread, I am surprised by some of the comments on this thread. So, let me elaborate my thoughts on this a bit.First, let me address some of the points made by Dr. Roy below, which do make sense.I also believe that Ms. Kodnani was a product of brainwashing. In fact, most people in our subcontinent are products of irresponsible, corrupt, and religion-based dim-witted and hateful brainwashing. However, the sensible among us have to draw a line somewhere. And Ms. Kodnani falls outside of that line in my book.Talking about the communal riot, not only Kodnani, the Gujarat Chief Minister, Narendra Modi, should be also punished, if not for aiding and abetting the riot, at least for failing to provide a civilized administration so that the riot could not begin and so that the riot could be stopped with no delay.I also salute the Indian judicial and political system, and that is why I praised not only Antara Dev Sen, I praised "other intellectuals of her quality" also.Talking about the liberals of India that originated from East Bengal (comment by Shah Deeldar), let me talk a bit about myself. If you search my name by Google, you would see that some Muslim idiots made derogatory comments against me, and called me a Hindu communal person. Well, I am from East Bengal. I did not migrate to India, I came to the USA; most of my family migrated to India. I am glad that even after being uprooted from our birthplace by Muslim hate-mongers we did not lose our humanity. I even felt like crying loudly when innocent Muslim women and children were killed in Lebanon.Now, I have no doubt that people who read my writings know that I am against religious enclaves of any kind anywhere in the world; I do not even hide my thought that the Muslims are the most religiously-stupid mass population in the world. Again, I think the religious idiots should be given education, involuntary if needed; but hatred is not what I want to give them.Talking about spending millions of rupees on Kasab (comment by Kamal Das), I think that is too much to spend on a terrorist. India should carry out Kasab's punishment with no delay. Instead of wasting resources on a field-criminal like Kasab, India should act diplomatically with the world against the criminal state of Pakistan where children are brainwashed to hate non-Muslims.Let me end by repeating my old mantra, "May humans give up hatred."Sukhamaya Bain=========================================From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Sen
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, September 1, 2012, 6:30 PM
I agree with Ms. Dev Sen. Journalists and other intellectuals of her quality are the people who have made India a better country than many others in the world.Assuming the evidences against Kodnani's crimes are as foolproof, I would go further; Kodnani is probably guiltier than Kasab. Kasab was brainwashed to be a terrorist, and he did not hide that; whereas Kodnani was a people's representative, entrusted with the welfare of all of her constituency.Sukhamaya Bain================================================From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 4:27 PMSubject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev SenIt is a great article by Amartya Sen and Nabanita Dev Sen's daughter. Sangh Parivar hates Amartya Sen. He has discussed Babri demolition and Gujarat riots in his book Argumentative Indian. Sent from my iPhone===========================================.....................................................................-----Original message-----===================================================From: Sukla Sen <http://us.mc1427.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sukla.sen@gmail.com>
Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab: Antara Dev Senhttp://www.asianage.com/columnists/kodnani-no-less-guilty-kasab-382Kodnani is no less guilty than Kasab
Sep 01, 2012-- Peace Is DoableKodnani helped kill 35 kids, 32 women and 30 men. Almost as a reward, Mr Modi made her state minister for women & child development.Our justice system presented us with two enormously important judgments on Wednesday, August 29. Both were about mass murder. Both were about massacres that had horrified the nation. Both had a sectarian angle. Both verdicts proclaimed that there was a larger conspiracy and meticulous planning behind the mass murders. Both found the accused guilty of pre-meditated mass murder. But we responded to these two verdicts very differently. Which once again gives away our shameful prejudices, mindless priorities and silent fears. The Supreme Court verdict on Ajmal Kasab upheld his death penalty awarded by the Bombay high court for the Mumbai terror attacks on November 26, 2008. And the verdict of a special court convicted 32, including two powerful political figures, for the Naroda Patiya massacre in Gujarat in 2002. Sentencing is awaited as I write this. The death sentence is a possibility, but life imprisonment is more likely. Especially given the VIPs convicted, and the fact that as far as I remember no one has got the death sentence for the massacre of Muslims in the post-Godhra violence till now. The only ones sentenced to death for the 2002 violence were 11 Muslims convicted of the Godhra train burning. The SC's verdict on Ajmal Kasab, a terrorist responsible for the "26/11" attack on Mumbai, was a foregone conclusion. Kasab was a self-confessed Pakistani terrorist, the only one captured alive of the 10 attackers who killed 166 in Mumbai, and his chance of escaping the death sentence was practically non-existent. But the 32 Indian citizens of Gujarat, convicted of murder and criminal conspiracy in the Naroda Patiya massacre that left 97 dead in 2002, had every chance of getting away with murder, like thousands of their fellow killers. And thus the conviction — especially of sitting MLA, former minister and Narendra Modi's close aide Maya Kodnani and Bajrang Dal leader Babu Bajrangi — made us sit up. Such verdicts were not for powerful folk. Whatever happened to our carefully nurtured political culture of impunity? So our belligerent baying for Kasab's blood is in stark contrast to our cautious, measured and often defensive response to the conviction of Kodnani and Bajrangi, along with 30 others. Even the media shows double standards in the way it humanises the ruthless killers who gleefully butchered 97 in Naroda Patiya, while demonising Kasab, who with his partner, shot dead 58 at Mumbai's Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST). We are offered heart-wrenching images of weeping mothers, wives and sisters of the killers of Naroda Patiya. Killers who blocked escape routes and hacked to death little children and women, burnt babies alive, set fire to helpless old people and terrified men, women and children, raped and tortured their victims before burning them alive. Killers who slashed open the belly of pregnant women to carve out the womb and kill the foetus before the mother. Ten years later, when gruesome details of their brutality have faded, must we share the sorrow of these killers' families hurt by justice? And if we are to look at the human face of inhuman killers, why don't we witness the sorrow of Kasab's mother, too? Dear God, no! That would be treason! Hang Kasab publicly, demanded some of our political leaders, who would clearly prefer lynching to our staid process of justice. The Shiv Sena demanded that he be hanged at CST. "Does the government have the guts to carry out the sentence?" challenged Uddhav Thackeray. In fact, our netas are falling over each other to insist on Kasab's hanging right here, right now. It seems to be the only way to assert their patriotism. So BJP spokesperson Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi roars: "Kasab should be hanged without delay! Enough of biryani for him!" We even grudge him the basic jail food. And we hate the fact that Kasab has a right to appeal for mercy. Even a former solicitor-general of India, Harish Salve, raged that Kasab's mercy plea, if there is one, should not be entertained at all by the government. And the Shiv Sena plans to seek amendments to Article 72 of the Constitution so that only Indians can seek clemency. "Are our laws meant for Indians or Pakistani nationals?" shouts Mr Thackeray. So go get the hangman. The last hangman in the region, the old, infirm and very retired Arjun Jadhav, has agreed to do the honours. Not necessary, says Swati Sathe, a top cop in Maharashtra and former jailer of Arthur Road prison which holds Kasab. We could do it. Cops could legitimately hang him. "I would not have flinched if I was ordered to hang Kasab," says she. In contrast, those screaming loudest for Kasab's blood practically dismiss the Naroda Patiya verdict as irrelevant. The BJP talks of "progress" and Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi's "good governance", and brushes aside lesser "issues like this conviction". Clearly, mass murders and conspiracy to massacre by an outsider is unforgivable, deserving of the highest punishment. But mass murders and conspiracy to massacre by our own leaders and elected representatives is not. Why is butchering those you are supposed to protect using the state machinery and public money and then using the state machinery to shield oneself less of a crime than murdering unknown people in a no-holds barred suicide attack? Let's look at Kodnani. This BJP MLA is a gynaecologist, and has been the trusted representative of Naroda for years. The doctor knew her locality well, and helped kill 35 children, 32 women and 30 men by supplying the rioters with information, access, weapons and fuel. Almost as a reward, she was made state minister for women and child development by Mr Modi. I am not in favour of capital punishment. But I believe we must reduce our double standards in justice delivery. The SC says it has no option but to hang Kasab because he was part of a conspiracy to wage war against India and fuel communal tension. We leap in joy. But neither we nor the courts talk of waging war against the very idea of India, and fuelling communal tension by ruthless sectarian massacres by trusted state agents. That's a war that can destroy India from within. And for ever. It is far more dangerous than sporadic terrorist attacks by outsiders.The writer is editor of The Little Magazine. She can be contacted at: http://us.mc1427.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sen@littlemag.com![]()
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